MS20074-05-24 bolts

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out there
with a less expensive source?

[Gig601XLBuilder]

Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:
> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out there
> with a less expensive source?
>
>
I was going to suggest www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com but they don't list
that bolt. They list about 20 other MS200074 bolts but not that one. You
might call them and see if they can get it because at 16 you are in
their 50% discount level.

[Blueskies]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message .. .
> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out there with a less expensive source?
>

Ask about NASM20074-05-24

[[email protected]]

On Jan 3, 2:45*pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! *Anyone out there
> with a less expensive source?

Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
maybe.

Regards,
Bud

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>
>>Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out there
>>with a less expensive source?
>
>
> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
> maybe.
>
> Regards,
> Bud


It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.

How are you going to know???

[Maxwell]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>>
>>>Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out
>>>there
>>>with a less expensive source?
>>
>>
>> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
>> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
>> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
>> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
>> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
>> maybe.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bud
>
>
> It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.
>
> How are you going to know???

If you go with a quailty manufacturer that will certify the grade, specify
rolled threads, and have them individually magnafluxed, you should be good
to go.

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Well, I use 4 of these bolts in the "Jesus" bolt position whose job is to
keep my my entire rotor blade system from departing like a kids toy. Yes, I
want to be 500' in the air not even wondering if I got the bolts that I
thought I did.

Stu
"Maxwell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
> ...
>> wrote:
>>> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out
>>>>there
>>>>with a less expensive source?
>>>
>>>
>>> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
>>> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
>>> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
>>> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
>>> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
>>> maybe.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bud
>>
>>
>> It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.
>>
>> How are you going to know???
>
> If you go with a quailty manufacturer that will certify the grade, specify
> rolled threads, and have them individually magnafluxed, you should be good
> to go.
>
>
>

[Maxwell]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I use 4 of these bolts in the "Jesus" bolt position whose job is to
> keep my my entire rotor blade system from departing like a kids toy. Yes,
> I want to be 500' in the air not even wondering if I got the bolts that I
> thought I did.
>
> Stu
> "Maxwell" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out
>>>>>there
>>>>>with a less expensive source?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
>>>> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
>>>> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
>>>> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
>>>> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
>>>> maybe.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bud
>>>
>>>
>>> It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.
>>>
>>> How are you going to know???
>>
>> If you go with a quailty manufacturer that will certify the grade,
>> specify rolled threads, and have them individually magnafluxed, you
>> should be good to go.
>>
>>

Well in that case I think I would consider having them independently
inspected even if I purchased AN certified hardware. I don't think it is
horribly expensive.

[Gig601XLBuilder]

In that case I doubt I'd bitch about the $80 cost for 4 bolts.


Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:
> Well, I use 4 of these bolts in the "Jesus" bolt position whose job is to
> keep my my entire rotor blade system from departing like a kids toy. Yes, I
> want to be 500' in the air not even wondering if I got the bolts that I
> thought I did.
>
> Stu
> "Maxwell" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out
>>>>> there
>>>>> with a less expensive source?
>>>>
>>>> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
>>>> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
>>>> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
>>>> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
>>>> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
>>>> maybe.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bud
>>>
>>> It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.
>>>
>>> How are you going to know???
>> If you go with a quailty manufacturer that will certify the grade, specify
>> rolled threads, and have them individually magnafluxed, you should be good
>> to go.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Jan 4, 10:12*am, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
> Well, *I use 4 of these bolts in the "Jesus" bolt position whose job is to
> keep my my entire rotor blade system from departing like a kids toy. *Yes, I
> want *to be 500' in the air not even wondering if I got the bolts that I
> thought I did.
>
> Stu"Maxwell" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>
> >>>>Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! *Anyone out
> >>>>there
> >>>>with a less expensive source?
>
> >>> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
> >>> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
> >>> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
> >>> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
> >>> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
> >>> maybe.
>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Bud
>
> >> It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.
>
> >> How are you going to know???
>
> > If you go with a quailty manufacturer that will certify the grade, specify
> > rolled threads, and have them individually magnafluxed, you should be good
> > to go.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree that I would want top quality for the "Jesus" nut as we used
to call them. I also agree with the others that I wouldn't complain
about $80 for them. Not the place to try and save money in my opinion.
As for not knowing what you have, ARP makes bolts for racing cars that
are made to the same AMS (aerospace metallurgical standard) specs as
aircraft. I doubt that they will be any cheaper however. They make big
end rod bolts to 300 ksi using Aermet 100, the strongest structural
metal available. They probably cost as much or more as any MS bolt. As
I said, MS20074 bolts are only 125,000 psi strength bolts, and since
they are coarse thread, are not as strong as an AN bolt in tension.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/

Regards,
Bud

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Well there is a little more to it. I'm assisting other builders and the
bolt count goes up @ 4/ ship and it adds up quickly. I'm sure that there is
a source somewhere at more like $10/bolt I bought "Supertanium" bolts for
less than $20 each and these are a high strength Titatanium alloy in the
200ksi region.
The MS are of the grade 5 variety, coarse thread and the only thing special
is the drilled head. $20 each is excessive.
Stu
"Gig601XLBuilder" > wrote in message
...
> In that case I doubt I'd bitch about the $80 cost for 4 bolts.
>
>
> Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:
>> Well, I use 4 of these bolts in the "Jesus" bolt position whose job is
>> to keep my my entire rotor blade system from departing like a kids toy.
>> Yes, I want to be 500' in the air not even wondering if I got the bolts
>> that I thought I did.
>>
>> Stu
>> "Maxwell" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone
>>>>>> out there
>>>>>> with a less expensive source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I presume you're dealing with an experimental aircraft, and a
>>>>> MS20074 bolt is a coarse thread (the only coarse thread aircraft
>>>>> structural bolt I know of), 125 ksi, drilled head hex bolt, why not
>>>>> just use a grade 5 or grade 8 auto bolt? They are quite good quality
>>>>> if you buy from the right source. Try some of the race car suppliers
>>>>> maybe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Bud
>>>>
>>>> It might be quite good quality - or it might be junk.
>>>>
>>>> How are you going to know???
>>> If you go with a quailty manufacturer that will certify the grade,
>>> specify rolled threads, and have them individually magnafluxed, you
>>> should be good to go.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Jan 4, 10:05*am, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
> The MS are of the grade 5 variety, coarse thread and the only thing special
> is the drilled head. *$20 each is excessive.

How about you buy a full box of Grade 8 bolts, test half or quarter of
them to destruction in shear and tension, and then reject the box if
any fail below expected values. If they pass, test the rest to the
implementation design limits and then drill the heads on your drill
press using a carbide bit. That might work.

Bob K.

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

arp-bolts had stronger bolts but no drilled heads.
Thanks
Stu
"Skrud" > wrote in message
...
> These guys might be able to help. It'd certainly be worth a phone call to
> see what they can do.
>
> Not sure I'd tell them what they're for though...
>
> The spec's ma'am, just the spec's.
>
> http://www.arp-bolts.com/
>

[Rich S.[_1_]]

"Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
...

How about you buy a full box of Grade 8 bolts, test half or quarter of
them to destruction in shear and tension, and then reject the box if
any fail below expected values. If they pass, test the rest to the
implementation design limits and then drill the heads on your drill
press using a carbide bit. That might work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I did that with my prop bolts. Better buy twice as many plus a dozen extra
carbide bits. Anybody wanna buy about six grade 8 prop bolts with busted
carbide bits imbedded in the hex heads? :)

Rich S.

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Rich S. wrote:
> "Bob Kuykendall" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> How about you buy a full box of Grade 8 bolts, test half or quarter of
> them to destruction in shear and tension, and then reject the box if
> any fail below expected values. If they pass, test the rest to the
> implementation design limits and then drill the heads on your drill
> press using a carbide bit. That might work.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I did that with my prop bolts. Better buy twice as many plus a dozen extra
> carbide bits. Anybody wanna buy about six grade 8 prop bolts with busted
> carbide bits imbedded in the hex heads? :)
>
> Rich S.
>
>

I have to report the same levels of sucess!

Those tiny little bits break when they start to come out the bottom side.

BTW, Why Grade 8?
Seems like those might be a but - brittle?


Richard

[Dave S]

cavelamb himself wrote:

>
> I have to report the same levels of sucess!
>
> Those tiny little bits break when they start to come out the bottom side.
>
> BTW, Why Grade 8?
> Seems like those might be a but - brittle?
>
>
> Richard

Because a grade 8 bolt on a bad day still beats a grade 5 for strength
on its best day. Someone showed the numbers on that issue either here or
one of the list-servers I subscribe to.

Dave

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Dave S wrote:
> cavelamb himself wrote:
>
>>
>> I have to report the same levels of sucess!
>>
>> Those tiny little bits break when they start to come out the bottom side.
>>
>> BTW, Why Grade 8?
>> Seems like those might be a but - brittle?
>>
>>
>> Richard
>
>
> Because a grade 8 bolt on a bad day still beats a grade 5 for strength
> on its best day. Someone showed the numbers on that issue either here or
> one of the list-servers I subscribe to.
>
> Dave


I don't recall it here.
How about share if you can find it.


IIRC, AN bolts are grade 5 types to allow them to bend before braking.

[Rich S.[_1_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
...
> Dave S wrote:
>> cavelamb himself wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have to report the same levels of sucess!
>>>
>>> Those tiny little bits break when they start to come out the bottom
>>> side.
>>>
>>> BTW, Why Grade 8?
>>> Seems like those might be a but - brittle?
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>
>>
>> Because a grade 8 bolt on a bad day still beats a grade 5 for strength on
>> its best day. Someone showed the numbers on that issue either here or one
>> of the list-servers I subscribe to.
>>
>> Dave
>
>
> I don't recall it here.
> How about share if you can find it.
>
>
> IIRC, AN bolts are grade 5 types to allow them to bend before braking.

What Dave said, plus a couple more reasons . . .

The size I needed was only available in Grade 8. IIRC, they are 3/8" NC,
about 8" long.

Prop bolts are typically NAS - not AN.

I keep a close eye on them, checking them at every oil change. I have a wood
prop, so that's a good idea no matter what grade of bolts are used. They've
400 hours on them now and have never loosened nor shown signs of wear or
slippage. Someday I'm going to take a picture of the bolt circle with the
safety wire properly installed so's I don't have to spend 20 minutes
figuring out which *&^% way the wire goes in and which way to twist it.

Rich S.

[Dave S]

cavelamb himself wrote:

>
> I don't recall it here.
> How about share if you can find it.
>
>
> IIRC, AN bolts are grade 5 types to allow them to bend before braking.

I will look.. but the gist of it is.. a grade 5 will still fail
completely before the grade 8 starts to get strained... brittle versus
bending is besides the point in that regard.

[Dave S]

Dave S wrote:
> cavelamb himself wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't recall it here.
>> How about share if you can find it.
>>
>>
>> IIRC, AN bolts are grade 5 types to allow them to bend before braking.
>
> I will look.. but the gist of it is.. a grade 5 will still fail
> completely before the grade 8 starts to get strained... brittle versus
> bending is besides the point in that regard.

Here is a link to a grade chart I found in the FlyRotary listserv
messages. The original message I recall is not under the heading of
bolts or grades.. i've got years of messages to look through if I was to
find it.

Dave

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Dave S wrote:
> cavelamb himself wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't recall it here.
>> How about share if you can find it.
>>
>>
>> IIRC, AN bolts are grade 5 types to allow them to bend before braking.
>
>
> I will look.. but the gist of it is.. a grade 5 will still fail
> completely before the grade 8 starts to get strained... brittle versus
> bending is besides the point in that regard.


And if that overstresses the attachment that is bolted together?

A bent bolt is a sure sign of an overstress.

A super hard bolt that didn't bend may be worse that a bent bolt.


Of course, it's an amateur built - with no official quality control.
So you can use whatever you want.

But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.

[Rich S.[_1_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
...
>
> But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.

And - if that is not available? Will you choose not to continue with your
project, sell it incomplete and start something else?

BTW, when buying some certified AN bolts, I had to go through the bin and
pick out good ones. Two out of three had crooked threads. This is not
unusual.

Rich S.

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Rich S. wrote:
> "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.
>
>
> And - if that is not available? Will you choose not to continue with your
> project, sell it incomplete and start something else?
>
> BTW, when buying some certified AN bolts, I had to go through the bin and
> pick out good ones. Two out of three had crooked threads. This is not
> unusual.
>
> Rich S.
>
>


Not available?

Or not cheap enough?

[Lou]

On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out there
> with a less expensive source?

I'm no expert at this but what if you where to call and ask about
buying a bulk amount?
More than you need to get the price down. This way you may also be
able to get the
shipping down. There are not too many places that won't deal to sell
more. Then list
the extras on ebay or elsewhere.
Lou

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

Yes you are right about discounts for quantity buys but $15.00 ea for 100 is
not going to be acceptable to my budget.
What this has done is to make me carefully review the application and learn
a bunch more about threaded joints and the strength requirements.
Stu
"Lou" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote:
>> Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out
>> there
>> with a less expensive source?
>
> I'm no expert at this but what if you where to call and ask about
> buying a bulk amount?
> More than you need to get the price down. This way you may also be
> able to get the
> shipping down. There are not too many places that won't deal to sell
> more. Then list
> the extras on ebay or elsewhere.
> Lou

[Rich S.[_1_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
...
>
> Not available?

Not available. This was true of several different fasteners and pieces of
hardware on the Emeraude. My plans came out in 1954 and there were no direct
aircraft hardware replacements or substitutions. None. Nada. Zip. And, in
the case of the landing gear bolts, it would be financially impossible to
scrap and redesign the wing spar for different hardware. So, like Stuart, I
learned a lot about bolt strengths and selected ones that would be more than
adequate for the job.

If a person is hung up on "certified" aircraft parts, he/she should have a
172 or fly commercially. Oh wait, they have failures, too.

Rich S.

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Rich S. wrote:
> "cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Not available?
>
>
> Not available. This was true of several different fasteners and pieces of
> hardware on the Emeraude. My plans came out in 1954 and there were no direct
> aircraft hardware replacements or substitutions. None. Nada. Zip. And, in
> the case of the landing gear bolts, it would be financially impossible to
> scrap and redesign the wing spar for different hardware. So, like Stuart, I
> learned a lot about bolt strengths and selected ones that would be more than
> adequate for the job.
>
> If a person is hung up on "certified" aircraft parts, he/she should have a
> 172 or fly commercially. Oh wait, they have failures, too.
>
> Rich S.
>
>

So be it, Rich. It's you choice on your airplane.

I'll stick to certified FASTENERS.

And recommend the same to anyone who will listen.


Richard

[Dave S]

cavelamb himself wrote:

>
> But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.

Thats nice.

I'm using AN whenever possible, and reasonable. It's not reasonable to
pay $10 for a bolt that has a pedigree when a $1 bolt in a noncritical
application (or 50 cent.. or what have you) will work acceptably. Thats
just me.

My Mazda rotary engine has this weird thread scheme called "metric".
I have yet to find those with AN numbers. So I go and get an appropriate
or least incompatible grade in metric when needed to interface with the
engine in some manner.

Its called experimental for a reason.

My whole point was giving info. Someone was asking if grade 5 was better
than Grade 8. Thats subjective. The chart gives the cold hard numbers.
And if you read it.. again.. a grade 5 bolt will completely fail before
an 8 even gets strained (those values are in tension, not shear).

If you WANT the bolt to fail in a certain situation in your application
thats your business. If you want it to hold, thats your call as well.
Pick whats best for you.

Dave

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Dave S wrote:
>
> If you WANT the bolt to fail in a certain situation in your application
> thats your business. If you want it to hold, thats your call as well.
> Pick whats best for you.
>
> Dave


One last point and I'll let it go...

The above is truly important decision point - but you left out
HOW you want the bolt to fail.

Add that, adn I have no problem with your approach.

[[email protected]]

This is a personal experience with AN fasteners. Here in the far
North, tailwheel bolts of the AN variety are very commonly broken when
landing in conditions they were never meant to endure, i.e., off-
airport boulder patches. Someone discovered that if you replace that
AN bolt with a CAT bolt, voila, problem solved. Standard Caterpillar
bolts are equivalent to grade 8 and they have VERY strong ones for
special applications. They come in a variety of sizes, but not "all"
sizes, so you may have to adjust things a bit to get the closest size
available to fit your application. Check the price, you will be
pleasantly surprised. Good luck.

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:
> This is a personal experience with AN fasteners. Here in the far
> North, tailwheel bolts of the AN variety are very commonly broken when
> landing in conditions they were never meant to endure, i.e., off-
> airport boulder patches. Someone discovered that if you replace that
> AN bolt with a CAT bolt, voila, problem solved. Standard Caterpillar
> bolts are equivalent to grade 8 and they have VERY strong ones for
> special applications. They come in a variety of sizes, but not "all"
> sizes, so you may have to adjust things a bit to get the closest size
> available to fit your application. Check the price, you will be
> pleasantly surprised. Good luck.
>

Just be careful as often the engineer designed the bolts to be the
"fuse" in the system. Replacing a grade 3 or 5 bolt with grade 8 can be
akin to replacing a fuse with a penny. It may not hurt for a long time,
but there comes the day...

Matt

[Rich S.[_1_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>
> Just be careful as often the engineer designed the bolts to be the "fuse"
> in the system. Replacing a grade 3 or 5 bolt with grade 8 can be akin to
> replacing a fuse with a penny. It may not hurt for a long time, but there
> comes the day...


And you know this how ???? Example ???

Rich S.

[jerry wass]

Rich S. wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Just be careful as often the engineer designed the bolts to be the "fuse"
>> in the system. Replacing a grade 3 or 5 bolt with grade 8 can be akin to
>> replacing a fuse with a penny. It may not hurt for a long time, but there
>> comes the day...
>
>
> And you know this how ???? Example ???
>
> Rich S.
>
>
Not tryoing to start an argument---but maybe it's better to jerk the
tailwheel off the spring, than to jerk the spring out of the ass of the
airplane!--Jerry

[Matt Whiting]

Jerry Wass wrote:
> Rich S. wrote:
>> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Just be careful as often the engineer designed the bolts to be the
>>> "fuse" in the system. Replacing a grade 3 or 5 bolt with grade 8 can
>>> be akin to replacing a fuse with a penny. It may not hurt for a long
>>> time, but there comes the day...
>>
>>
>> And you know this how ???? Example ???
>>
>> Rich S.
>>
> Not tryoing to start an argument---but maybe it's better to jerk the
> tailwheel off the spring, than to jerk the spring out of the ass of the
> airplane!--Jerry

Good thinking, Jerry.

Rich S., I know this because I'm an engineer.

Here's an example:

http://www.howard-australia.com/products/Jaylor.htm

Bolts designed to fail in shear and protect more expensive components
are very common. A quick Google search should have easily convinced you
of this. You are familiar with Google, right?

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote

> Bolts designed to fail in shear and protect more expensive components are
> very common. A quick Google search should have easily convinced you of
> this. You are familiar with Google, right?

I can certainly understand the value of a shear pin, in rotable machines.
I'm not so sure of the value in the case of a tailwheel.

If you were to hit a tail wheel hard enough to shear an axle in the tail
wheel, the force that did that damage is still going to be there, and is
going to continue pressing the tail wheel spring, until all the force has
been dissipated.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

" Someone discovered that if you replace that
AN bolt with a CAT bolt, voila, problem solved. "

That would indicate that the tail does not break off instead of the
bolt breaking, after a stronger bolt is used.

[Rich S.[_1_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Rich S., I know this because I'm an engineer.

And I'm not - that may be why I asked.

> Here's an example:
>
> http://www.howard-australia.com/products/Jaylor.htm

I notice that they make a point of stating that the bolt is a shear bolt.
Must be a bit unusual if they feel the need to mention it.

> Bolts designed to fail in shear and protect more expensive components are
> very common. A quick Google search should have easily convinced you of
> this. You are familiar with Google, right?

I don't remember getting snotty with you, Oh mighty engineer whose
unreferenced opinions are above question.

One more question - why should I do the search? You made the statement and I
simply asked for a reference. I did not **** in your cornflakes. Stay away
from mine.

Rich S.

[Matt Whiting]

Rich S. wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Rich S., I know this because I'm an engineer.
>
> And I'm not - that may be why I asked.
>
>> Here's an example:
>>
>> http://www.howard-australia.com/products/Jaylor.htm
>
> I notice that they make a point of stating that the bolt is a shear bolt.
> Must be a bit unusual if they feel the need to mention it.
>
>> Bolts designed to fail in shear and protect more expensive components are
>> very common. A quick Google search should have easily convinced you of
>> this. You are familiar with Google, right?
>
> I don't remember getting snotty with you, Oh mighty engineer whose
> unreferenced opinions are above question.

You are confusing matter-of-fact with snotty.


> One more question - why should I do the search? You made the statement and I
> simply asked for a reference. I did not **** in your cornflakes. Stay away
> from mine.

You should do your own search as you should never trust answers you see
posted in a newsgroup.

I never touched your corn flakes? What is your problem?

Matt