B-17 ride in Galveston

[Lee K. Gleason[_2_]]

Just got back form a B-17 ride at the Lone Star Flight Museum in
Galveston. It was a Christmas present from my thoughtful wife, Susan. I'd
mentioned that they were selling rides to the public a few months back, and
she arranged one for me as a surprise.

For a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, it was the ride of a lifetime. The
sound of the four Wright Cyclones was like a symphony of power. The swoops
and curces of the aluminum body work was like art deco compared to the
designs of today. There were four other passengers on the flight, and after
takeoff we were allowed to roam pretty freely. I started off in the radio
compartment in the waist. As I headed forward, I couldn't believe how narrow
the walkway through the bomb bay was - if I hadn't lost 20 pounds lately, I
flat would not have been able to get through it. As it was, I was afraid
that I'd get stuck, but, fortune favors the brave - I managed to squeeze
through. The entire plane was a lot smaller inside than movies or TV would
make you think - at 5'11'', I could only stand up in a couple of spots.

Got all the way forward into the bombardier's compartment. Looking out at
Galveston, I imagined it was Schweinfurt and I was looking for the ball
bearing factories. Up there with me was a youngish guy, and an 80-ish
fellow. During the pax safety briefing, the pilot had asked if anyone had
ever been on a B-17 before. This elderly gent raised his hand, a twinkle in
his eye. The pilot smiled and asked "how many times", seeing what was
coming...the old timer said, "35 missions worth". He'd been a B-17 crew
member and had toured Germany extensively from the air, during the 40s,
courtesy of the 8th Air Force. The crew treated him like the hero he was,
and I felt fortunate to be able to hear his first hand stories while
actually flying on the plane with him. When the other guy up there with us
said he felt lucky to have gotten to take the ride, the old timer replied
that he felt lucky just to be alive. It was good to see him enjoying the
flight just as much if not more than us newbies.

Soon enough the ride was over - seeing the numbers float up from the
bombardier's perch was a treat. We flared and floated in soft as a feather
for a bit, then the gear thumped home with authority and we taxied back to
the museum.

It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that period of
aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful still
flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Lee K. Gleason" > wrote in
:

> Just got back form a B-17 ride at the Lone Star Flight Museum in
> Galveston. It was a Christmas present from my thoughtful wife, Susan.
> I'd mentioned that they were selling rides to the public a few months
> back, and she arranged one for me as a surprise.
>
> For a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, it was the ride of a lifetime.
> The
> sound of the four Wright Cyclones was like a symphony of power. The
> swoops and curces of the aluminum body work was like art deco compared
> to the designs of today. There were four other passengers on the
> flight, and after takeoff we were allowed to roam pretty freely. I
> started off in the radio compartment in the waist. As I headed
> forward, I couldn't believe how narrow the walkway through the bomb
> bay was - if I hadn't lost 20 pounds lately, I flat would not have
> been able to get through it. As it was, I was afraid that I'd get
> stuck, but, fortune favors the brave - I managed to squeeze through.
> The entire plane was a lot smaller inside than movies or TV would make
> you think - at 5'11'', I could only stand up in a couple of spots.
>
> Got all the way forward into the bombardier's compartment. Looking
> out at
> Galveston, I imagined it was Schweinfurt and I was looking for the
> ball bearing factories. Up there with me was a youngish guy, and an
> 80-ish fellow. During the pax safety briefing, the pilot had asked if
> anyone had ever been on a B-17 before. This elderly gent raised his
> hand, a twinkle in his eye. The pilot smiled and asked "how many
> times", seeing what was coming...the old timer said, "35 missions
> worth". He'd been a B-17 crew member and had toured Germany
> extensively from the air, during the 40s, courtesy of the 8th Air
> Force. The crew treated him like the hero he was, and I felt fortunate
> to be able to hear his first hand stories while actually flying on the
> plane with him. When the other guy up there with us said he felt
> lucky to have gotten to take the ride, the old timer replied that he
> felt lucky just to be alive. It was good to see him enjoying the
> flight just as much if not more than us newbies.
>
> Soon enough the ride was over - seeing the numbers float up from the
> bombardier's perch was a treat. We flared and floated in soft as a
> feather for a bit, then the gear thumped home with authority and we
> taxied back to the museum.
>
> It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that
> period of
> aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful
> still flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.

Sounds cheap at twice the price, really.


Bertie

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

In article >,
Bertie the > wrote:
>> It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that
>> period of
>> aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful
>> still flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.
>
> Sounds cheap at twice the price, really.

My thoughts exactly. What price can you put on getting your own little piece
of history like that?

Andy

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Andy Hawkins > wrote in
:

> Hi,
>
> In article >,
> Bertie the > wrote:
>>> It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that
>>> period of
>>> aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful
>>> still flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.
>>
>> Sounds cheap at twice the price, really.
>
> My thoughts exactly. What price can you put on getting your own little
> piece of history like that?
>

having said that, I have a standing invite to fly a jet warbird prividing I
put fuel in it. About $1,000/hour last time I talked to him..

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

In article >,
Bertie the > wrote:
> having said that, I have a standing invite to fly a jet warbird prividing I
> put fuel in it. About $1,000/hour last time I talked to him..

I'll take 6 minute's worth :D

Andy

[John Mazor[_2_]]

"Lee K. Gleason" > wrote in message
. ..
> Just got back form a B-17 ride at the Lone Star Flight Museum in
> Galveston. It was a Christmas present from my thoughtful wife, Susan. I'd
> mentioned that they were selling rides to the public a few months back, and
> she arranged one for me as a surprise.
>
> For a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, it was the ride of a lifetime. The
> sound of the four Wright Cyclones was like a symphony of power. The swoops
> and curces of the aluminum body work was like art deco compared to the
> designs of today. There were four other passengers on the flight, and after
> takeoff we were allowed to roam pretty freely. I started off in the radio
> compartment in the waist. As I headed forward, I couldn't believe how narrow
> the walkway through the bomb bay was - if I hadn't lost 20 pounds lately, I
> flat would not have been able to get through it. As it was, I was afraid
> that I'd get stuck, but, fortune favors the brave - I managed to squeeze
> through. The entire plane was a lot smaller inside than movies or TV would
> make you think - at 5'11'', I could only stand up in a couple of spots.
>
> Got all the way forward into the bombardier's compartment. Looking out at
> Galveston, I imagined it was Schweinfurt and I was looking for the ball
> bearing factories. Up there with me was a youngish guy, and an 80-ish
> fellow. During the pax safety briefing, the pilot had asked if anyone had
> ever been on a B-17 before. This elderly gent raised his hand, a twinkle in
> his eye. The pilot smiled and asked "how many times", seeing what was
> coming...the old timer said, "35 missions worth". He'd been a B-17 crew
> member and had toured Germany extensively from the air, during the 40s,
> courtesy of the 8th Air Force. The crew treated him like the hero he was,
> and I felt fortunate to be able to hear his first hand stories while
> actually flying on the plane with him. When the other guy up there with us
> said he felt lucky to have gotten to take the ride, the old timer replied
> that he felt lucky just to be alive. It was good to see him enjoying the
> flight just as much if not more than us newbies.
>
> Soon enough the ride was over - seeing the numbers float up from the
> bombardier's perch was a treat. We flared and floated in soft as a feather
> for a bit, then the gear thumped home with authority and we taxied back to
> the museum.
>
> It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that period of
> aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful still
> flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.
> --
> Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
> Control-G Consultants
>

Great story. Do they still tour with it? If so, does anyone have the URL for their tour
schedule? I missed one years ago and have regretted it ever since.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Andy Hawkins > wrote in
:

> Hi,
>
> In article >,
> Bertie the > wrote:
>> having said that, I have a standing invite to fly a jet warbird
>> prividing I put fuel in it. About $1,000/hour last time I talked to
>> him..
>
> I'll take 6 minute's worth :D

Wouldn't get you to the end of the runway!

I really must do it his year. I'll be kicking myself if I don't


Bertie

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

In article >,
Bertie the > wrote:
>> I'll take 6 minute's worth :D
>
> Wouldn't get you to the end of the runway!

Ok, I guess I could stretch to a whole circuit. Count me in :)

Andy

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Andy Hawkins > wrote in
:

> Hi,
>
> In article >,
> Bertie the > wrote:
>>> I'll take 6 minute's worth :D
>>
>> Wouldn't get you to the end of the runway!
>
> Ok, I guess I could stretch to a whole circuit. Count me in :)
>

there's a few people in the UK doing stuff like this, but it's probably
outrageously expensive because of the fuel costs there.
There's on two seat spitfire that used to do rides and a couple of others
that have jump seats ( which , apparently, is slightly ahdead of the pilot
and in his crotch!) And there's a couple of people who do warbird rides or
checkouts in the US.
I coulda gone in a Mustang years ago for about 50 bucks for an hour! Seemed
expensive at the time.

Doh!

Bertie

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Andy Hawkins" > wrote
>
> Ok, I guess I could stretch to a whole circuit. Count me in :)

That wouldn't do. <g>

That would be like having the chance to have sex, not having had it for many
years, and being in your prime, still.

Then, you get to take off your and her clothes, see and and touch her for
two seconds, and then leave. ;-)

A jet ride with some high powered accelleration and climb, some rolls and
steep turns pulling a bunch of G's, and perhaps a few other aerobatic
maneuvers would be the minnimum, I would want if I got a ride in a fighter
jet. Anything less, and I think I would want to just forget it.

I got a ride in a B-17 a few years ago, too. It was an experience I'll
never forget, too.

The thing that struck me, was how exposed the brave men flying into battle
truely were. There is only a thin layer of alluminum and your flack jacket
between you and a bunch of people wanting to kill you.

I don't think it ever struck me to that extent, until I got to actually fly
in it.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

> I coulda gone in a Mustang years ago for about 50 bucks for an hour! Seemed
> expensive at the time.
>

NOOOOO!!!!

I climbed all over this one, took a million pictures and some video,
but missed the ride:

http://www.b17.org/

Next time it's in Georgetown I'm going. Cost be damned.

I couldn't quite grasp that a human being actually FIT in the ball
turret. I sure couldn't have. I took a long stare out it's view plate.

There's a decent book about flying B-17s in WWII I will mention here:
"Bloody Skies A 15th AAF B-17 Combat Crew: How They Lived and Died",
Melvin McGuire and Robert Hadley. This book really brought to life my
tour of the fortress. They supply some of the post combat reports in
facsimile. The reproductions aren't very good but I found them really
interesting, especially since I've never been in the military.
There're all kinds of good stories in the book. One of the most
riveting is a detailed account of a raid in which an entire squadron
McGuire had just been assigned to was wiped out in a single day (the
day McGuire arrived -- thus he escaped and was a member of the only
crew left in the squadron). In the space from 1046 to 1053 hours
during the mission a massive German fighter force destroyed his
squadron and got some other planes as well.

The Germans came in flying in American fighter formation and weren't
recognized until they were only 200 yards out -- they came in firing
rockets, cannons, and of course machine guns. Three of the formation
went down after the first pass alone.

Seven minutes -- seventy guys.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

wrote in
:

>> I coulda gone in a Mustang years ago for about 50 bucks for an hour!
>> Seemed expensive at the time.
>>
>
> NOOOOO!!!!
>
> I climbed all over this one, took a million pictures and some video,
> but missed the ride:
>
> http://www.b17.org/
>
> Next time it's in Georgetown I'm going. Cost be damned.
>
> I couldn't quite grasp that a human being actually FIT in the ball
> turret. I sure couldn't have. I took a long stare out it's view plate.

The only one I've been in is the EAA's aluminum overcast and at the time
it had no turrets at all. I think they had just gotten it. It was in at
the place i was working at the time because we had a Wright shop.
(couple of wright powered DC3s)
>
> There's a decent book about flying B-17s in WWII I will mention here:
> "Bloody Skies A 15th AAF B-17 Combat Crew: How They Lived and Died",
> Melvin McGuire and Robert Hadley. This book really brought to life my
> tour of the fortress. They supply some of the post combat reports in
> facsimile. The reproductions aren't very good but I found them really
> interesting, especially since I've never been in the military.
> There're all kinds of good stories in the book. One of the most
> riveting is a detailed account of a raid in which an entire squadron
> McGuire had just been assigned to was wiped out in a single day (the
> day McGuire arrived -- thus he escaped and was a member of the only
> crew left in the squadron). In the space from 1046 to 1053 hours
> during the mission a massive German fighter force destroyed his
> squadron and got some other planes as well.
>
> The Germans came in flying in American fighter formation and weren't
> recognized until they were only 200 yards out -- they came in firing
> rockets, cannons, and of course machine guns. Three of the formation
> went down after the first pass alone.
>
> Seven minutes -- seventy guys.


I know. It's just incredible, the whole thing.

Bertie
>
>

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

> wrote in message
...
<...>
> I couldn't quite grasp that a human being actually FIT in the ball
> turret. I sure couldn't have. I took a long stare out it's view plate.
>


I was on a tour of a museum at Flying Cloud MN (Ain't there any more) -
there was a bunch of people following the guide, so at one point they turned
right, I nudged my brother and we (and the kids) turned left...

They had a B-17 with a bunch of guys in it that had flown during WW-II and
since we had disconnected from the group we had time to sit and chat with
them while they waited for the next tour group to march through.

They ball turret gunner let us get in the ball- I was able to get in and get
the back closed behind me (with help) but at 6' there was no way I could get
down enough enough to look through the sights - you had to be small.

I commented on how hard it would be to get out and he told us that when he
had to bail out once he made it out the door before the waist gunners - said
it helped to be motivated.

The radio operator (and I think top gunner) talked about the cold and how
they wore electric suits - when they got near the target and started into
the flack he said you could see the electric demand go down on the meters as
everyone got nervous and turned down the heat in their suits.

The bombader talked about having to arm the bombs - he had to step off the
catwalk and climb down on the bomb rack (you would straddle the space
between the rows of bombs) to remove the safety pins - he said the bomb bay
doors wouldn't hold your weight, so you couldn't fall. He said he had to
being the safety pins back to prove that he had climbed out there to arm
them. Apparently some guys wouldn't do it and the bombs would be dropped
with the safety's still in.

The waist gunner talked about the 1000 bomber raids and watching the streams
of bombers flying back as they were on their way into the target.

We missed the "official" tour. I just hope the kids got half as much out of
it as I did.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
> I was on a tour of a museum at Flying Cloud MN (Ain't there any more) -
> there was a bunch of people following the guide, so at one point they turned
> right, I nudged my brother and we (and the kids) turned left...
>
> They had a B-17 with a bunch of guys in it that had flown during WW-II and
> since we had disconnected from the group we had time to sit and chat with
> them while they waited for the next tour group to march through.

I did my primary training next to that museum. It was intimidating to be
a student pilot doing touch and gos in front of their grandstand on show
weekends with all the old-timers hanging out watching. But we got to see
all kinds of interesting old aircraft flying. Taxiing behind a PBY, for
instance. Or being cleared into position and hold with a caution for
wake turbulence from a P-51 making a very low pass right over your head.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Rich Ahrens > wrote in
. net:

> Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
>> I was on a tour of a museum at Flying Cloud MN (Ain't there any more)
>> - there was a bunch of people following the guide, so at one point
>> they turned right, I nudged my brother and we (and the kids) turned
>> left...
>>
>> They had a B-17 with a bunch of guys in it that had flown during
>> WW-II and since we had disconnected from the group we had time to sit
>> and chat with them while they waited for the next tour group to march
>> through.
>
> I did my primary training next to that museum. It was intimidating to
> be a student pilot doing touch and gos in front of their grandstand on
> show weekends with all the old-timers hanging out watching.

All the old timers had been there!



Bertie

[muff528]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
news:8cednaeev_mmpR3anZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> > wrote in message
> ...
> <...>
>> I couldn't quite grasp that a human being actually FIT in the ball
>> turret. I sure couldn't have. I took a long stare out it's view plate.
>>
>
>
> I was on a tour of a museum at Flying Cloud MN (Ain't there any more) -
> there was a bunch of people following the guide, so at one point they
> turned right, I nudged my brother and we (and the kids) turned left...
>
> They had a B-17 with a bunch of guys in it that had flown during WW-II and
> since we had disconnected from the group we had time to sit and chat with
> them while they waited for the next tour group to march through.
>
> They ball turret gunner let us get in the ball- I was able to get in and
> get the back closed behind me (with help) but at 6' there was no way I
> could get down enough enough to look through the sights - you had to be
> small.
>
> I commented on how hard it would be to get out and he told us that when he
> had to bail out once he made it out the door before the waist gunners -
> said it helped to be motivated.
>
> The radio operator (and I think top gunner) talked about the cold and how
> they wore electric suits - when they got near the target and started into
> the flack he said you could see the electric demand go down on the meters
> as everyone got nervous and turned down the heat in their suits.
>
> The bombader talked about having to arm the bombs - he had to step off the
> catwalk and climb down on the bomb rack (you would straddle the space
> between the rows of bombs) to remove the safety pins - he said the bomb
> bay doors wouldn't hold your weight, so you couldn't fall. He said he had
> to being the safety pins back to prove that he had climbed out there to
> arm them. Apparently some guys wouldn't do it and the bombs would be
> dropped with the safety's still in.
>
> The waist gunner talked about the 1000 bomber raids and watching the
> streams of bombers flying back as they were on their way into the target.
>
> We missed the "official" tour. I just hope the kids got half as much out
> of it as I did.
>
> --
> Geoff
> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
> When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
>

One of my father's jobs as engineer was to free up bombs that were "hung up"
in the bomb bay. Sometimes the bombs dropped far enough to clear the arming
wires and the little arming propellers started spinning off of the bombs
while they were still stuck in the bomb bay. He mentioned that he fashioned
a tool to facilitate releasing a stuck bomb so he wouldn't have to climb
down with bombs to free them. He said that participating in the bombing of a
designated target didn't bother him too much but he always wondered and
worried about where the hung bombs went when they finally did come loose and
fell to who-knows-where. I'll have to get more details about the "tool" and
the procedure he used to free the bombs with it.

Tony P.

[BT]

Well worth the price.. just to meet and ride with the WWII Veteran and hear
his stories..
sounded like the wife made an excellent decision in the gift

BT

"Lee K. Gleason" > wrote in message
. ..
> Just got back form a B-17 ride at the Lone Star Flight Museum in
> Galveston. It was a Christmas present from my thoughtful wife, Susan. I'd
> mentioned that they were selling rides to the public a few months back,
> and
> she arranged one for me as a surprise.
>
> For a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, it was the ride of a lifetime. The
> sound of the four Wright Cyclones was like a symphony of power. The swoops
> and curces of the aluminum body work was like art deco compared to the
> designs of today. There were four other passengers on the flight, and
> after
> takeoff we were allowed to roam pretty freely. I started off in the radio
> compartment in the waist. As I headed forward, I couldn't believe how
> narrow
> the walkway through the bomb bay was - if I hadn't lost 20 pounds lately,
> I
> flat would not have been able to get through it. As it was, I was afraid
> that I'd get stuck, but, fortune favors the brave - I managed to squeeze
> through. The entire plane was a lot smaller inside than movies or TV would
> make you think - at 5'11'', I could only stand up in a couple of spots.
>
> Got all the way forward into the bombardier's compartment. Looking out at
> Galveston, I imagined it was Schweinfurt and I was looking for the ball
> bearing factories. Up there with me was a youngish guy, and an 80-ish
> fellow. During the pax safety briefing, the pilot had asked if anyone had
> ever been on a B-17 before. This elderly gent raised his hand, a twinkle
> in
> his eye. The pilot smiled and asked "how many times", seeing what was
> coming...the old timer said, "35 missions worth". He'd been a B-17 crew
> member and had toured Germany extensively from the air, during the 40s,
> courtesy of the 8th Air Force. The crew treated him like the hero he was,
> and I felt fortunate to be able to hear his first hand stories while
> actually flying on the plane with him. When the other guy up there with
> us
> said he felt lucky to have gotten to take the ride, the old timer replied
> that he felt lucky just to be alive. It was good to see him enjoying the
> flight just as much if not more than us newbies.
>
> Soon enough the ride was over - seeing the numbers float up from the
> bombardier's perch was a treat. We flared and floated in soft as a feather
> for a bit, then the gear thumped home with authority and we taxied back to
> the museum.
>
> It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that period of
> aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful still
> flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.
> --
> Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
> Control-G Consultants
>
>
>

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 16:32:07 -0600, "Lee K. Gleason"
> wrote:

> Just got back form a B-17 ride at the Lone Star Flight Museum in
>Galveston. It was a Christmas present from my thoughtful wife, Susan. I'd
>mentioned that they were selling rides to the public a few months back, and
>she arranged one for me as a surprise.
>

>
> It was a bit pricey, at $400.00 - but, if you're a fan of that period of
>aviation, you'd agree it was money well spent. With only a handful still
>flying, it's an opportunity I was glad to have.

find out what the fuel flow is for one of those engines in climb and
cruise. my bet is that you contributed no more than 10 minutes of the
flying cost in fuel alone.

Stealth Pilot

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

In article >,
Bertie the > wrote:
> there's a few people in the UK doing stuff like this, but it's probably
> outrageously expensive because of the fuel costs there.

There's a local airfield with at least one Jet Provost. Ok, not a classic
warbird, but still likely to be light year's better than anything I'll ever
fly.

As you say, likely to be prohibitively expensive. I'll stick with the
Warrior for now :)

Andy

[Andy Hawkins]

Hi,

In article >,
> wrote:
>
> "Andy Hawkins" > wrote
>>
>> Ok, I guess I could stretch to a whole circuit. Count me in :)
>
> That wouldn't do. <g>
>
> That would be like having the chance to have sex, not having had it for many
> years, and being in your prime, still.

I know. At $1000 an hour, I'd definitely stretch to at least an hour in
something exotic. We pay about $250 an hour for dual in our Warrior (go on,
get the violins out) anyway!

Maybe one day...

Andy

[C. Massey]

"John Mazor" > wrote in message
news:P_Tfj.2327$qV.950@trnddc03...
>

<snip>

>
> Great story. Do they still tour with it? If so, does anyone have the URL
> for their tour schedule? I missed one years ago and have regretted it
> ever since.
>
>
>


Here is the flight museum URL http://www.lsfm.org/