Visiting USA - recommendations please..

[OzPilot]

Hello everybody.

I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn’t and couldn’t find in
my part of the world. I considered some Aerobatic training (with an
instructor just for fun) and maybe a helicopter trial flight just to see
the city from the air. I’ve had a look at the web but it’s hard to get a
feel for your industry when it’s so different and so far away. It would
be great if anybody could give me personal recommendations for
schools/instructor to have a fly with. If I’m going to do a touristy
flight does anybody have any specific route recommendations?

This will be my first time to the USA so I’m looking forward to it
immensely.


--
OzPilot
Posted at www.flight.org

[Kyle Boatright]

"OzPilot" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello everybody.
>
> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
> advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn't and couldn't find in
> my part of the world. I considered some Aerobatic training (with an
> instructor just for fun) and maybe a helicopter trial flight just to see
> the city from the air. I've had a look at the web but it's hard to get a
> feel for your industry when it's so different and so far away. It would
> be great if anybody could give me personal recommendations for
> schools/instructor to have a fly with. If I'm going to do a touristy
> flight does anybody have any specific route recommendations?
>
> This will be my first time to the USA so I'm looking forward to it
> immensely.

If you are interested in a wide range of aviation - experimentals, warbirds,
etc., you need to spend an afternoon at the Chino airfield, east of LA. It
has several major warbird restoration shops, museums, and if you just walk
the ramp on a Saturday, you'll see a more varied collection of aviation
hardware than you'll find at any airshow short of Oshkosh.

>
>
> --
> OzPilot
> Posted at www.flight.org
>

[RST Engineering]

Los Angeles is a pretty big place. Do you have any idea where you are
staying? The two airports I would recommend are about 50 miles (100 klicks)
from Los Angeles International and to the best of my knowledge there isn't
any public transport between LAX and either KCNO or KAJO.

KCNO (Chino) is a homebuilder/warbird heaven. You might want to go to
www.airnav.com and dial in KCNO in the "Airports" page. Navigate the page
and you will find a whole bunch of comments about the airport and resident
aircraft.

KAJO (Corona) is more for just plain old general aviation. Real friendly
folks. Both AJO and CNO have really good on-field restaurants. Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty is a hop skip and jump away from the airport.

If you have wheels, I can think of a few more that would interest you. If
you don't, I'd find a good motel in the Corona area and make that my Los
Angeles headquarters. Like Oshkosh, you can't see one tenth of what you
would like to see in three days.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"OzPilot" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello everybody.
>
> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
> advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn’t and couldn’t find in
> my part of the world. I considered some Aerobatic training (with an
> instructor just for fun) and maybe a helicopter trial flight just to see
> the city from the air. I’ve had a look at the web but it’s hard to get a
> feel for your industry when it’s so different and so far away. It would
> be great if anybody could give me personal recommendations for
> schools/instructor to have a fly with. If I’m going to do a touristy
> flight does anybody have any specific route recommendations?
>
> This will be my first time to the USA so I’m looking forward to it
> immensely.
>
>
> --
> OzPilot
> Posted at www.flight.org
>

[BT]

There are no commercial flight schools or rental aircraft currently
available at Henderson NV
That I am aware of.. picture could change by late March.

Best bet is North Las Vegas Airport, or Boulder City Airport. Both offer
fixed wing and helicopter flight schools.
Personal aircraft in the Grand Canyon area is restricted to very high
altitudes because of the "noise" restrictions.
Commercial air tours are available.

Glider operations are available at the Jean airport, 20 miles south of LAS.
There is a possible connection for some Acro training at either North Las
Vegas or Boulder City.

BT

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> OzPilot schrieb:
>> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
>> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
>
> I assume that you have your papers (might need visa [?], valid passport
> [maybe latest one with chip], etc.). Also bring your pilot license and
> medical with you.
>
>> would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
>> advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn?t and couldn?t find in
>> my part of the world. I considered some Aerobatic training (with an
>> instructor just for fun) and maybe a helicopter trial flight just to see
>> the city from the air. I?ve had a look at the web but it?s hard to get a
>> feel for your industry when it?s so different and so far away. It would
>> be great if anybody could give me personal recommendations for
>> schools/instructor to have a fly with. If I?m going to do a touristy
>> flight does anybody have any specific route recommendations?
>
> Las Vegas has - IIRC - 3 larger airports: LAS (McCarran), North Las Vegas
> and Henderson. Henderson is more GA driven, so you might check operators
> based at this airport.
> You also want to consider a commercial flight to the Grand Canyon, the
> Grand Canyon area has a special airspace.
> For a short flight with an instructor I might either fly down the Colorado
> river to Lake Havasu or up north to St George and have lunch there.
> The web has some great ressources, so search ahead for tour operators,
> ways to/from Henderson, etc.
>
>> This will be my first time to the USA so I?m looking forward to it
>> immensely.
>
> IMHO (this is only me) I wouldn't say a word about flying at the
> immigration desk.
>
> One tip I was once given in LV: As a tourist never leave the strip at
> night and walk into side streets. Never.
>
> #m

[xxx]

While LA has a lot less airports now than it did a generation ago,
there are still quite a few.

AFAIK, none of the ones convenient to the center of the city offers
any sort of exotic flight options. I only patronize a couple of San
Fernando Valley ones, which have little advantage other than being
convenient for me.

There is a school at Santa Paula that does aerobatic training. They
have a Decathlon, a Super Decathlon and a Citabria. Check
them out at www.cpaviation.com Santa Paula is not even suburban
LA. You'd need a vehicle to get there. It's a nice ride through the
citrus groves and a little mountain spur to get there. I recommend
renting a motorcycle for that trip, if that suits your style and you
have a bike license with suitable experience.



On Jan 6, 6:54 am, OzPilot > wrote:
> Hello everybody.
>
> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
> advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn't and couldn't find in
> my part of the world. I considered some Aerobatic training (with an
> instructor just for fun) and maybe a helicopter trial flight just to see
> the city from the air. I've had a look at the web but it's hard to get a
> feel for your industry when it's so different and so far away. It would
> be great if anybody could give me personal recommendations for
> schools/instructor to have a fly with. If I'm going to do a touristy
> flight does anybody have any specific route recommendations?
>
> This will be my first time to the USA so I'm looking forward to it
> immensely.
>
> --
> OzPilot
> Posted atwww.flight.org

[Martin Hotze[_2_]]

James Robinson schrieb:
> OzPilot > wrote:
>
>> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
^^^^^^^^^
(...)
> Keep in mind that Los Angeles is surrounded by mountains, and the typical
^^^^^^^^^^

because it's the second time the wrong city was mentioned: the OP visits LV.

#m

[Jim Logajan]

Martin Hotze > wrote:
> James Robinson schrieb:
>> OzPilot > wrote:
>>
>>> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> ^^^^^^^^^
> (...)
>> Keep in mind that Los Angeles is surrounded by mountains, and the
>> typical
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> because it's the second time the wrong city was mentioned: the OP
> visits LV.

Actually OzPilot said he would be in both cities:

"I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
would use the opportunity to do some flying...."

[[email protected]]

James Robinson > wrote:
> OzPilot > wrote:

> > I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> > conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> > would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
> > advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn?t and couldn?t find in
> > my part of the world.

> Keep in mind that Los Angeles is surrounded by mountains, and the typical
> onshore breeze will tend to trap polluted air in the LA basin. There are
> frequent atmospheric inversions, which can reduce visibility to only a
> couple of miles. While VFR flying is usually possible, you might not get
> much enjoyment from a purely sightseeing flight, given the typical haze and
> limited visibility in the area.

> Here are a couple of webcam sites that will give you an idea of what things
> are like:

> http://www.earthcam.com/usa/california/losangeles/hollywood/
> http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/feature?section=weather/photos&id=5790008

> I haven't flown there in years, so others will have to give their
> impressions and any suggestions on alternatives.

That's only for a small part of the year.

Right now it is winter here, however if there are no storms, which
don't occur that often in Southern California and Nevada, the VFR flying
is great.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Martin Hotze[_2_]]

Jim Logajan schrieb:

> Actually OzPilot said he would be in both cities:
>
> "I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> would use the opportunity to do some flying...."

damn. you're right. sorry.

#m

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> One tip I was once given in LV: As a tourist never leave the strip at
> night and walk into side streets. Never.

Good advice. I've had to glare-down purse-snatchers/pick-pockets even ON
the Strip. Vegas is a fun place, but it attracts some pretty desperate and
unsavory folks.

One last word of (hopefully unnecessary) advice for the OP: PLEASE don't
judge America by what you see/experience in Los Angeles and/or Las Vegas.

They're usually fun places to visit, but they're about as representative of
America as watching "Miami Vice" or "CSI"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:8Rfgj.288699$Fc.8459@attbi_s21:

>> One tip I was once given in LV: As a tourist never leave the strip at
>> night and walk into side streets. Never.
>
> Good advice. I've had to glare-down purse-snatchers/pick-pockets even
> ON the Strip. Vegas is a fun place, but it attracts some pretty
> desperate and unsavory folks.
>
> One last word of (hopefully unnecessary) advice for the OP: PLEASE
> don't judge America by what you see/experience in Los Angeles and/or
> Las Vegas.
>
> They're usually fun places to visit, but they're about as
> representative of America as watching "Miami Vice" or "CSI"...

Great aviation post there hypocrite.


Oh, and last time I checked Vegas and LA were in the US


Bertie

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> One last word of (hopefully unnecessary) advice for the OP: PLEASE
> don't judge America by what you see/experience in Los Angeles and/or Las
> Vegas.

Or by the way Iowa votes.

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

In Las Vegas do watch the Bellagio fountains at night. Across from
New York New York is M&M World where you can see a wall full of dozens
of different colors of M&Ms. You can buy containers of these as well.

Mandalay Ball at the south end has an aquarium exhibit.

There is a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop at the Venetian I believe.

Ron Lee

[OzPilot[_2_]]

James Robinson Wrote:
> You left out the rest of the sentence:
>
> "I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles."
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> The OP will have to clarify where he wants to try flying.

I'm sorry. I'm looking at doing some fixed wing stuff in LA and plan on
doing a trial flight in a chopper in Las Vegas to get a bird's eye view
of the main strip. I've spoken to a couple of operators in Vegas and
they're extrmely helpful and have provided me with numerous options.

Thanks for all your kind advice re flying in LA. I've sent a few emails
to operators that were mentioned and am eagerly awaiting repies. I'm
staying 'walking distance' from Rodeo Drive but will happily travel
anywhere for the opportunity. In fact, the more travel the better since
It'll give me the chance to meet more people and see more countryside.
In Vegas, I'm staying at one of the larger Casinos where the conference
I'm attending will be held.

To be honest, I didn't realise *California* was so densely populated.
It has a poulation of nearly 34 million just in that one state - nearly
60% more than the entire population of Australia. No wonder there are so
many fields there. In Aus, our airfields are few and very far between
(one GA field in the Sydney basin). In fact, you have more aircraft
attending Oshkosh than we have registered in all of Aus.

I've used www.blamping.com and Google Earth to have a browse of USA
locations. It's quite an amazing country.


--
OzPilot
Posted at www.flight.org

[Ted[_2_]]

A couple things that could be considered in Los Angeles area....in Fullerton
you can try out Air Combat USA..( I quess they run out of North Las Vegas
also...???) I've never done it but sure looks fun..here's a link to them
http://www.aircombatusa.com/nfs.php

At Planes of Fame in Chino I think you can still buy a flight in a P-51 and
Stearman...I could be wrong but I know they were available at one time
http://www.planesoffame.org/

March AFB has a GREAT museum on the west side of the base

Blackbird Airpark in Palmdale

In Las egas you can try the Indoor skydiving thing...it is AWESOME!!
http://www.flyawayindoorskydiving.com/

Both cities have a TON of things you can do.

HAVE FUN!!!

[Thomas Borchert]

Bt,

> Personal aircraft in the Grand Canyon area is restricted to very high
> altitudes because of the "noise" restrictions.
>

Myth alert! You can fly at 8500 to 10500 feet over much of the Canyon -
and that's been plenty impressive for this pilot.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Martin,

> because it's the second time the wrong city was mentioned: the OP visits LV.
>

Then read the OP again. He visits LV for business and said he'd want to stay
in LA for 3 days and fly there.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Martin,

> One tip I was once given in LV: As a tourist never leave the strip at
> night and walk into side streets. Never.
>

Wow! If LV already fills your definition of a dangerous place in that
sense, don't try Daressalam or Rio.

Just don't be a dumb tourist, as everywhere.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> Personal aircraft in the Grand Canyon area is restricted to very high
>> altitudes because of the "noise" restrictions.
>>
>
> Myth alert! You can fly at 8500 to 10500 feet over much of the Canyon -
> and that's been plenty impressive for this pilot.

For sure. I spent an hour over the canyon, flying the specified routes --
and didn't feel like I missed a thing. It's truly a flight of a lifetime.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> In Las Vegas do watch the Bellagio fountains at night. Across from
> New York New York is M&M World where you can see a wall full of dozens
> of different colors of M&Ms. You can buy containers of these as well.
>
> Mandalay Ball at the south end has an aquarium exhibit.
>
> There is a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop at the Venetian I believe.

Don't forget Jimmy Buffet's "Margaritaville" -- where you can buy margaritas
"by the yard", right on the strip!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:R%rgj.25316$Ux2.21369@attbi_s22:

>> In Las Vegas do watch the Bellagio fountains at night. Across from
>> New York New York is M&M World where you can see a wall full of
>> dozens of different colors of M&Ms. You can buy containers of these
>> as well.
>>
>> Mandalay Ball at the south end has an aquarium exhibit.
>>
>> There is a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop at the Venetian I believe.
>
> Don't forget Jimmy Buffet's "Margaritaville" -- where you can buy
> margaritas "by the yard", right on the strip!

Barf

Bertie

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> I spent an hour over the canyon, flying the specified routes --
> and didn't feel like I missed a thing. It's truly a flight of a lifetime.
>

Indeed. Perfectly capped off with lunch at Marble Canyon.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> I spent an hour over the canyon, flying the specified routes --
>> and didn't feel like I missed a thing. It's truly a flight of a
>> lifetime.
>>
>
> Indeed. Perfectly capped off with lunch at Marble Canyon.

In my case, it was capped off with a bladder-busting four-hour leg to
Carlsbad, New Mexico. That 5+ hour flight remains the longest in my
logbook.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:3_sgj.25401$Ux2.21565
@attbi_s22:

>>> I spent an hour over the canyon, flying the specified routes --
>>> and didn't feel like I missed a thing. It's truly a flight of a
>>> lifetime.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed. Perfectly capped off with lunch at Marble Canyon.
>
> In my case, it was capped off with a bladder-busting four-hour leg to
> Carlsbad, New Mexico. That 5+ hour flight remains the longest in my
> logbook.

Done more than that in a glider.


Bertie

[xyzzy]

On Jan 6, 10:54 am, OzPilot > wrote:
> Hello everybody.
>
> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
> advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn't and couldn't find
'
It will be pretty hard to rent anything other than a standard spam can
(C172 or Warrior).

Another enjoyable flight I'll throw into the conversation is to go to
KSMO and rent a 172 and an instructor for a local flight. From SMO
you can overfly LAX midfield at about 3000 feet, which is a great view
for an aviation enthusiast, you can watch the 747's taking off below
you to head out over the ocean, then go down to Long Beach, and then
out to Catalina Island (KAVX), which is a fun place to land winds
permitting (warning: landing fee, which is pretty rare in this
country) and eat at the runway cafe, if it's too windy it's still a
cool place to circumnavigate. Then back to Long Beach, back up over
LAX again, then up the coast to Malibu, turn inland and fly next to
the hills to downtown LA then back to SMO.

I did that on a business trip to LA, enjoyed it immensely. Highly
recommend it. Great way to see the LA area.

[gatt[_2_]]

"Ron Lee" > wrote in message
...
> In Las Vegas do watch the Bellagio fountains at night. Across from
> New York New York is M&M World where you can see a wall full of dozens
> of different colors of M&Ms. You can buy containers of these as well.
>
> Mandalay Ball at the south end has an aquarium exhibit.
>
> There is a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop at the Venetian I believe.


Aviation-minded people might want to check out the Janet terminal across
from the Luxor.

A friend of mine drove me around Kelly Johnson Boulevard past EG&G security.
There were a bunch of people standing out front smoking. A great prank
would have been to pull on an alien mask and some coveralls and just go
stand out front, holding a cigarette and looking bored just to see watch the
conspiracy tourists drive by. 'Course, I'd have probably gotten shot for
it.

-c

[BT]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Bt,
>
>> Personal aircraft in the Grand Canyon area is restricted to very high
>> altitudes because of the "noise" restrictions.
>>
>
> Myth alert! You can fly at 8500 to 10500 feet over much of the Canyon -
> and that's been plenty impressive for this pilot.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

That is true Thomas.. but for those of us who remember "flying IN the
canyon", 8500MSL is pretty high.
:)
BT

[Al[_2_]]

Get out of LA early and go to Las Vegas then check out the Aerobatic
Experience in Boulder City, Nevada just south of Las Vegas. Learn about
aerobatics in the Extra 300 over the Nevada desert. Check it out:

http://aerobaticexperience.com/

Bruce Williams of Micorsoft Flight Simulator fame also bases his Extra
300 at Boulder City in the winter months. Try and get a flight with him
if you can.

http://www.bruceair.com

I've rented 172's a couple times at North Las Vegas. Do a dual flight
with an instructor, get in some sightseeing and some instruction at the
same time. it's easier and less expensive than trying to do a checkout
to take the plane out yourself.

Enjoy.

Al
1964 Skyhawk
SFF/Spokane Wa USA



OzPilot wrote:
> Hello everybody.
>
> I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles. I thought that I
> would use the opportunity to do some flying and maybe even take
> advantage of some unusual types that you wouldn’t and couldn’t find in
> my part of the world. I considered some Aerobatic training (with an
> instructor just for fun) and maybe a helicopter trial flight just to see
> the city from the air. I’ve had a look at the web but it’s hard to get a
> feel for your industry when it’s so different and so far away. It would
> be great if anybody could give me personal recommendations for
> schools/instructor to have a fly with. If I’m going to do a touristy
> flight does anybody have any specific route recommendations?
>
> This will be my first time to the USA so I’m looking forward to it
> immensely.
>
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Bt,

> That is true Thomas.. but for those of us who remember "flying IN the
> canyon", 8500MSL is pretty high.
> :)
>

You have a point ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[dVaridel]

"OzPilot" > wrote in message
...
>
> James Robinson Wrote:
>> You left out the rest of the sentence:
>>
>> "I am travelling to Las Vegas (from Australia) in March for a work
>> conference but have three full days in Los Angeles."
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> The OP will have to clarify where he wants to try flying.
>
> I'm sorry. I'm looking at doing some fixed wing stuff in LA and plan on
> doing a trial flight in a chopper in Las Vegas to get a bird's eye view
> of the main strip. I've spoken to a couple of operators in Vegas and
> they're extrmely helpful and have provided me with numerous options.
>
> Thanks for all your kind advice re flying in LA. I've sent a few emails
> to operators that were mentioned and am eagerly awaiting repies. I'm
> staying 'walking distance' from Rodeo Drive but will happily travel
> anywhere for the opportunity. In fact, the more travel the better since
> It'll give me the chance to meet more people and see more countryside.
> In Vegas, I'm staying at one of the larger Casinos where the conference
> I'm attending will be held.
>
> To be honest, I didn't realise *California* was so densely populated.
> It has a poulation of nearly 34 million just in that one state - nearly
> 60% more than the entire population of Australia. No wonder there are so
> many fields there. In Aus, our airfields are few and very far between
> (one GA field in the Sydney basin). In fact, you have more aircraft
> attending Oshkosh than we have registered in all of Aus.
>
> I've used www.blamping.com and Google Earth to have a browse of USA
> locations. It's quite an amazing country.
>
>
> --
> OzPilot
> Posted at www.flight.org
>

[dVaridel]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:8Rfgj.288699$Fc.8459@attbi_s21...
>> One tip I was once given in LV: As a tourist never leave the strip at
>> night and walk into side streets. Never.
>
> Good advice. I've had to glare-down purse-snatchers/pick-pockets even ON
> the Strip. Vegas is a fun place, but it attracts some pretty desperate
> and unsavory folks.
>
> One last word of (hopefully unnecessary) advice for the OP: PLEASE don't
> judge America by what you see/experience in Los Angeles and/or Las Vegas.
>
> They're usually fun places to visit, but they're about as representative
> of America as watching "Miami Vice" or "CSI"...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Airbus[_3_]]

In article >,
says...

>
>Then read the OP again. He visits LV for business and said he'd want to stay
>in LA for 3 days and fly there.
>
>--


Whatever he does, he should not take either to be your typical US city!
Like the pilot who wanted to fly in LA, while his wife asked someone at the
airport how to get a bus into the city center. The response, "Lady, First they
ain't no city center - second, they ain't no bus . . ."