B747 Loses All 4 Generators Due To Clogged Sink In 1st Class Galley

[Larry Dighera]

Fortunately the flight wasn't mid-Pacific when this occurred:


http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/crash-threat/2008/01/08/1199554654270.html
Crash threat

January 9, 2008

A Qantas 747 with 344 passengers on board could have faced
catastrophe after losing power from all four of its generators on
its descent into Bangkok on Monday.
...
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said it had been told the
power from the main generators was lost 15 minutes away from
Bangkok.
...


http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1030-full.html#196921
...
"In this case it looks as if it has gone to the last stage of
emergency power for communication and navigation," Dr. Arvind
Sinha, director of aerospace at RMIT University in Melbourne, told
the Sydney Morning Herald. "After that it comes down to the skill
and experience of the crew." He added that the loss of all four
generators is "unheard of" but Murphy can and does find a way,
this time through a sink with a clogged drain in the first class
galley. ...

The sink is right over the electrical distribution unit and Boeing
engineers evidently considered the potential for leaks when they
put it there. A drip tray is installed to catch any overflow from
the sink but the tray on this aircraft was cracked.

[F. Baum]

On Jan 10, 2:37*pm, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> Fortunately the flight wasn't mid-Pacific when this occurred:
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/crash-threat/2008/01/08/11995546542...
> * * Crash threat
>
> * * January 9, 2008
>
> * * A Qantas 747 with 344 passengers on board could have faced
> * * catastrophe after losing power from all four of its generators on
> * * its descent into Bangkok on Monday.

Lar, This story doesnt make a whole lotta sense and seems a bit too
dramatic ("Could have faced catasophe"?). I wouldnt believe everything
on Avweb.
Frank

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> Fortunately the flight wasn't mid-Pacific when this occurred:
>
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/crash-threat/2008/01/08/1199554654270.html
> Crash threat
>
> January 9, 2008
>
> A Qantas 747 with 344 passengers on board could have faced
> catastrophe after losing power from all four of its generators on
> its descent into Bangkok on Monday.
> ...
> The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said it had been told the
> power from the main generators was lost 15 minutes away from
> Bangkok.
> ...
>
>
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1030-full.html#196921
> ...
> "In this case it looks as if it has gone to the last stage of
> emergency power for communication and navigation," Dr. Arvind
> Sinha, director of aerospace at RMIT University in Melbourne, told
> the Sydney Morning Herald. "After that it comes down to the skill
> and experience of the crew." He added that the loss of all four
> generators is "unheard of" but Murphy can and does find a way,
> this time through a sink with a clogged drain in the first class
> galley. ...
>
> The sink is right over the electrical distribution unit and Boeing
> engineers evidently considered the potential for leaks when they
> put it there. A drip tray is installed to catch any overflow from
> the sink but the tray on this aircraft was cracked.


Did you really need to post it twice? And we know it wasn't an accident
because you've got 2 different pre-post comments.


Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only have
enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for the
flight deck?

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 3:14*pm, Gig 601XL Builder >
wrote:
> Larry Dighera wrote:
> > Fortunately the flight wasn't mid-Pacific when this occurred:
>
> >http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/crash-threat/2008/01/08/11995546542...
> > * * Crash threat
>
> > * * January 9, 2008
>
> > * * A Qantas 747 with 344 passengers on board could have faced
> > * * catastrophe after losing power from all four of its generators on
> > * * its descent into Bangkok on Monday.
> > * * ...
> > * * The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said it had been told the
> > * * power from the main generators was lost 15 minutes away from
> > * * Bangkok.
> > * * ...
>
> > *http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1030-full.html#196921
> > * * ...
> > * * "In this case it looks as if it has gone to the last stage of
> > * * emergency power for communication and navigation," Dr. Arvind
> > * * Sinha, director of aerospace at RMIT University in Melbourne, told
> > * * the Sydney Morning Herald. "After that it comes down to the skill
> > * * and experience of the crew." He added that the loss of all four
> > * * generators is "unheard of" but Murphy can and does find a way,
> > * * this time through a sink with a clogged drain in the first class
> > * * galley. ...
>
> > * * The sink is right over the electrical distribution unit and Boeing
> > * * engineers evidently considered the potential for leaks when they
> > * * put it there. A drip tray is installed to catch any overflow from
> > * * the sink but the tray on this aircraft was cracked.
>
> Did you really need to post it twice? And we know it wasn't an accident
> because you've got 2 different pre-post comments.
>
> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only have
> enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for the
> flight deck?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, that's about all the time the batteries will last.

Dean

[F. Baum]

On Jan 10, 3:14*pm, Gig 601XL Builder >
wrote:
>
> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only have
> enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for the
> flight deck?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

About an hour depending on the model, BUT, they can just start the APU
and this would run at least one of the main busses.
Frank

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:14:01 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> wrote in
>:

>Did you really need to post it twice?

I canceled the first article, and re-posted it with additional
information.

You're welcome.

[Peter Clark]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:39:25 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:14:01 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> wrote in
>:
>
>>Did you really need to post it twice?
>
>I canceled the first article, and re-posted it with additional
>information.
>
>You're welcome.

The vast majority of news servers stopped honoring cancel messages
yonks ago due to abuse.

[The Visitor]

Does the apu power go through the same distribution panel connected with
the problem?

F. Baum wrote:

> On Jan 10, 3:14 pm, Gig 601XL Builder >
> wrote:
>
>>Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only have
>>enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for the
>>flight deck?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> About an hour depending on the model, BUT, they can just start the APU
> and this would run at least one of the main busses.
> Frank
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:13:46 -0800 (PST), "F. Baum" >
wrote in
>:

>On Jan 10, 2:37*pm, Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> Fortunately the flight wasn't mid-Pacific when this occurred:
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/crash-threat/2008/01/08/11995546542...
>> * * Crash threat
>>
>> * * January 9, 2008
>>
>> * * A Qantas 747 with 344 passengers on board could have faced
>> * * catastrophe after losing power from all four of its generators on
>> * * its descent into Bangkok on Monday.
>
>Lar, This story doesnt make a whole lotta sense and seems a bit too
>dramatic ("Could have faced catasophe"?). I wouldnt believe everything
>on Avweb.
>Frank

If you'll notice, it's The Sydney Morning Herald that contained that
quote, not AvWeb.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:14:01 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>> Did you really need to post it twice?
>
> I canceled the first article, and re-posted it with additional
> information.
>
> You're welcome.
>


You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
the planet that still accepts cancel commands.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> wrote in
>:

>
>You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>the planet that still accepts cancel commands.

You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
characterize them as mainstream.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>
> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
> characterize them as mainstream.


You have a cite for that? Because if it is true I can set up a script
that will do a lot of good for the rec.aviation community.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
> characterize them as mainstream.

That still exists? Wow!

I would have thought it would have been moved to the SBC / Yahoo
conglomerate ages ago.

Remember, it's at&t, not AT&T. <G>

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:35:04 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> wrote in
>:

>Larry Dighera wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
>> > wrote in
>> >:
>>
>>> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>>> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>>
>> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>> characterize them as mainstream.
>
>
>You have a cite for that? Because if it is true I can set up a script
>that will do a lot of good for the rec.aviation community.

In addition to being ineffective on nntp servers that do not honor
cancels, you may find that script to be a violation of Supernews'
Terms Of Use Agreement.

In addition to that, you wouldn't attempt to deny someone's right to
free speech would you? Ultimately such vandalism will only escalate
the issue.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in news:13of6g7ja6nqle9
@news.supernews.com:

> Larry Dighera wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
>> > wrote in
>> >:
>>
>>> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>>> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>>
>> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>> characterize them as mainstream.
>
>
> You have a cite for that? Because if it is true I can set up a script
> that will do a lot of good for the rec.aviation community.




You're thinking of a cancelbot?


This I gotta see.


Bertie

[Michael Huber[_2_]]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.

Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news server of
Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of my knowledge on
the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it as mainstream.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:35:04 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>> Larry Dighera wrote:
>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
>>> > wrote in
>>> >:
>>>
>>>> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>>>> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>>> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>>> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>>> characterize them as mainstream.
>>
>> You have a cite for that? Because if it is true I can set up a script
>> that will do a lot of good for the rec.aviation community.
>
> In addition to being ineffective on nntp servers that do not honor
> cancels,

of course it is ineffective you git. That's the whole ****ing point.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Michael Huber wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
>> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>
> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news server of
> Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of my knowledge on
> the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it as mainstream.
>

Some accept them from their own users but none accept them from other
servers so they are useless.

As a test I sent one one the message where I started this thread. Let me
know if it gets canceled on news.t-online.de.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 11, 10:38 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> > You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
> > that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
> > characterize them as mainstream.
>
> That still exists? Wow!
>
> I would have thought it would have been moved to the SBC / Yahoo
> conglomerate ages ago.
>
> Remember, it's at&t, not AT&T. <G>

Nah- remember the computers in Terminator 3 at Crystal Peak- those
were them.

They're tended by the robot from Lost in Space BTW. Or Brad Guth,
same thing.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:15:16 +0000, Larry Dighera wrote:

> Given that
> they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd characterize
> them as mainstream.

I thought Level3 owned the old BBN ASN now.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:18:57 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> Some accept them from their own users but none accept them from other
> servers so they are useless.

It's been a while since I looked at the innards of an NNTP server. If I
recall correctly, though, outbound queues store only message IDs. So if
a locally originated message is canceled before it is transmitted off-
site, the cancel will have the proper effect.

Once the message is beyond the horizon in which cancels are honored, of
course, the electrons have been wasted.

- Andrew

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:15:16 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> wrote in
>:
>
>>
>>You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>>the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>
>You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>characterize them as mainstream.

Don't you mean BBN Planet? They weren't bought/merged into AT&T, they
were merged into Level 3. But I digress.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:18:57 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
>> Some accept them from their own users but none accept them from other
>> servers so they are useless.
>
> It's been a while since I looked at the innards of an NNTP server. If I
> recall correctly, though, outbound queues store only message IDs. So if
> a locally originated message is canceled before it is transmitted off-
> site, the cancel will have the proper effect.
>
> Once the message is beyond the horizon in which cancels are honored, of
> course, the electrons have been wasted.
>
> - Andrew


Well looking at Larry's message that he says he sent a cancel message
and the follow up message I think the difference was 4 minutes.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:06:10 -0500, Peter Clark
> wrote in
>:

>On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:15:16 GMT, Larry Dighera >
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> wrote in
>:
>>
>>>
>>>You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
>>>the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
>>
>>You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>>that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>>characterize them as mainstream.
>
>Don't you mean BBN Planet? They weren't bought/merged into AT&T, they
>were merged into Level 3. But I digress.

All I know is, that back in '83 when the news moved over uucp
communication links, it seemed like nearly all traffic went through
ihnp4 which was AT&T the way I remember it.

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only have
> enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for the
> flight deck?

That's already quite a while. How much battery power would you expect? The
aircraft is designed so that it should never have to get by on battery power
alone.

[Mxsmanic]

Larry Dighera writes:

> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
> characterize them as mainstream.

Unless you get your newsgroups from the AT&T servers, that doesn't make much
difference.

[Mxsmanic]

Michael Huber writes:

> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news server of
> Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of my knowledge on
> the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it as mainstream.

Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.

[Michael Huber[_2_]]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

> Well looking at Larry's message that he says he sent a cancel message
> and the follow up message I think the difference was 4 minutes.

FWIW, I did not see Larry's original message, though I have no way of
telling whether the cancel was honored by T-Online or a server further
upstream.

What was the content, subject or msg-id of the test message you sent and
cancelled? I am not seeing an obvious "test, I will cancel this" message
from you.

[Michael Huber[_2_]]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.

Must... not... respond... to... troll...

*breathes*

There. Wasn't that difficult, now, was it?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only
>> have enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for
>> the flight deck?
>
> That's already quite a while. How much battery power would you
> expect? The aircraft is designed so that it should never have to get
> by on battery power alone.

Nope.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Larry Dighera writes:
>
>> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>> characterize them as mainstream.
>
> Unless you get your newsgroups from the AT&T servers, that doesn't
> make much difference.
>



Nope


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Michael Huber writes:
>
>> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
>> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of
>> my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it
>> as mainstream.
>
> Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>

Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!


And you are?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

wrote in news:f02ceaea-3530-4878-9496-
:

> On Jan 11, 10:38 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>> Larry Dighera wrote:
>>
>> > You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. Given
>> > that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
>> > characterize them as mainstream.
>>
>> That still exists? Wow!
>>
>> I would have thought it would have been moved to the SBC / Yahoo
>> conglomerate ages ago.
>>
>> Remember, it's at&t, not AT&T. <G>
>
> Nah- remember the computers in Terminator 3 at Crystal Peak- those
> were them.
>
> They're tended by the robot from Lost in Space BTW. Or Brad Guth,
> same thing.
>

Bwawhahwhahwhahhwhahwh!



Keyboard!


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Mxsmanic > wrote :
>
> > Michael Huber writes:
>
> >> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
> >> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of
> >> my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it
> >> as mainstream.
>
> > Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>
> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>
> And you are?
>
> Bertie

He or rather it or perhaps they, is/are (a) French poofter(s).

BTW Mr MxSwhatchadohickey, my P-51 just beat yours at the Dubai Red
Bull AIrraces.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Mxsmanic > wrote :
>
> > Michael Huber writes:
>
> >> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
> >> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of
> >> my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it
> >> as mainstream.
>
> > Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>
> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>
> And you are?
>
> Bertie

Shoot. Sorry.

He's a pus filled pustule on the bloody raped arse of Usenet.

Do I win?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

wrote in
:

> On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Mxsmanic > wrote
>> :
>>
>> > Michael Huber writes:
>>
>> >> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
>> >> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best
>> >> of my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would
>> >> qualify it as mainstream.
>>
>> > Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>>
>> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>>
>> And you are?
>>
>> Bertie
>
> He or rather it or perhaps they, is/are (a) French poofter(s).
>
> BTW Mr MxSwhatchadohickey, my P-51 just beat yours at the Dubai Red
> Bull AIrraces.
>
>

You're virtual air racing?



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

wrote in
:

> On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Mxsmanic > wrote
>> :
>>
>> > Michael Huber writes:
>>
>> >> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
>> >> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best
>> >> of my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would
>> >> qualify it as mainstream.
>>
>> > Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>>
>> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>>
>> And you are?
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Shoot. Sorry.
>
> He's a pus filled pustule on the bloody raped arse of Usenet.
>
> Do I win?
>

I think you're giving him to much credit. A postule will eventually produce
some pus, which is more than anthony ever will produce!


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jan 11, 8:56 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> wrote :
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> >> Mxsmanic > wrote
> >> :
>
> >> > Michael Huber writes:
>
> >> >> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
> >> >> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best
> >> >> of my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would
> >> >> qualify it as mainstream.
>
> >> > Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>
> >> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>
> >> And you are?
>
> >> Bertie
>
> > He or rather it or perhaps they, is/are (a) French poofter(s).
>
> > BTW Mr MxSwhatchadohickey, my P-51 just beat yours at the Dubai Red
> > Bull AIrraces.
>
> You're virtual air racing?
>
> Bertie

Nah...but it sounds like fun.

Y'know, you and I chatted some years back about hypoxia- I'm a former
skydiver- and I find now, that as I've aged, my tolerance for vertigo
has declined noticeably, i.e., I used to do 'spins' in freefall at
such a rate as to find my extremities being pulled outward by
centripetal acceleration....and never get dizzy...likewise, I could do
hard spirals under canopy, keeping the target in frame (I did
videography) and never miss a move and yet, now....I tried the balance
test in the NYT this week (stand on one leg, other leg at a 45 degree
bend, arms across chest, eyes closed) my best time was 12 seconds on
my week foot...and I'm 49! With a 54 bpm resting HR! I'm in shape
dammit! And I can stand like a stork with my EYES OPEN! Except for my
prioreceptors and the inner damn ear....(it can blow at any seam! no
more right stuff!).

How is it for folks like yourself and Dudley? Same ol' same ol'? Or
a gradual decline into senility and Mxsmaniacallness?

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Mxsmanic > wrote :
>>
>>> Michael Huber writes:
>>>> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the news
>>>> server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to the best of
>>>> my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of, that would qualify it
>>>> as mainstream.
>>> Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>>
>> And you are?
>>
>> Bertie
>
> He or rather it or perhaps they, is/are (a) French poofter(s).

No, actually he's a dweeb from Arizona who just happens to live in Paris.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

wrote in
:

> On Jan 11, 8:56 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> wrote
>> innews:cb2434d0-69e7-419d-bb45-fd3290690d02
@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.c
>> om:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 11, 8:39 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> >> Mxsmanic > wrote
>> >> :
>>
>> >> > Michael Huber writes:
>>
>> >> >> Well, news.t-online.de honors cancel commands, and it's the
>> >> >> news server of Germany's biggest ISP, and since Germany is to
>> >> >> the best of my knowledge on the planet you are speaking of,
>> >> >> that would qualify it as mainstream.
>>
>> >> > Germany isn't even a blip on the Internet radar.
>>
>> >> Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahw!
>>
>> >> And you are?
>>
>> >> Bertie
>>
>> > He or rather it or perhaps they, is/are (a) French poofter(s).
>>
>> > BTW Mr MxSwhatchadohickey, my P-51 just beat yours at the Dubai Red
>> > Bull AIrraces.
>>
>> You're virtual air racing?
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Nah...but it sounds like fun.
>
> Y'know, you and I chatted some years back about hypoxia- I'm a former
> skydiver- and I find now, that as I've aged, my tolerance for vertigo
> has declined noticeably, i.e., I used to do 'spins' in freefall at
> such a rate as to find my extremities being pulled outward by
> centripetal acceleration....and never get dizzy...likewise, I could do
> hard spirals under canopy, keeping the target in frame (I did
> videography) and never miss a move and yet, now....I tried the balance
> test in the NYT this week (stand on one leg, other leg at a 45 degree
> bend, arms across chest, eyes closed) my best time was 12 seconds on
> my week foot...and I'm 49! With a 54 bpm resting HR! I'm in shape
> dammit! And I can stand like a stork with my EYES OPEN! Except for my
> prioreceptors and the inner damn ear....(it can blow at any seam! no
> more right stuff!).
>
> How is it for folks like yourself and Dudley? Same ol' same ol'? Or
> a gradual decline into senility and Mxsmaniacallness?
>


Dunno. the last time I trie aerobatics I wasn't feeling well to start
with, was stuck in the rear 'pit of a smelly old airplane and treated to
a few manuevers. I was ready to puke in no time. hoepfully when I'm
doing them myself agian I can give you some comparison, but I figure
I'll harden to them again.

Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jan 11, 12:27*pm, Clark > wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > Larry Dighera wrote:
> >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:35:04 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> >> > wrote in
> >> >:
>
> >>> Larry Dighera wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder
> >>>> > wrote in
> >>>> >:
>
> >>>>> You really ought to know that there isn't a mainstream news server on
> >>>>> the planet that still accepts cancel commands.
> >>>> You ought to know that AT&T Worldnet honors cancel commands. *Given
> >>>> that they were the backbone for arpanet/usenet in the '80s, I'd
> >>>> characterize them as mainstream.
>
> >>> You have a cite for that? Because if it is true I can set up a script
> >>> that will do a lot of good for the rec.aviation community.
>
> >> In addition to being ineffective on nntp servers that do not honor
> >> cancels,
>
> > of course it is ineffective you git. That's the whole ****ing point.
>
> Isn't it nice how Larry can argue both sides in separate posts? Maybe he and
> Steven should spend some quality time together...
>
> --
> ---
> there should be a "sig" here- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Uh oh.. here comes the "Mc Nicol effect" Quick, beam me up
scotty.. :<)..

[Judah]

"F. Baum" > wrote in news:4bc77f89-cafe-42e7-bbee-
:

> On Jan 10, 2:37*pm, Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> Fortunately the flight wasn't mid-Pacific when this occurred:
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/crash-threat/2008/01/08/11995546542...
>> * * Crash threat
>>
>> * * January 9, 2008
>>
>> * * A Qantas 747 with 344 passengers on board could have faced
>> * * catastrophe after losing power from all four of its generators on
>> * * its descent into Bangkok on Monday.
>
> Lar, This story doesnt make a whole lotta sense and seems a bit too
> dramatic ("Could have faced catasophe"?). I wouldnt believe everything
> on Avweb.

Reporters...

I farted in the kitchen today. I could have faced catastrophe.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>>
>>> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only
>>> have enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for
>>> the flight deck?
>>
>> That's already quite a while. How much battery power would you
>> expect? The aircraft is designed so that it should never have to get
>> by on battery power alone.
>
> Well Mr. Aviation, the little 1320# plane I'm building should be able
> to run without the alternator charging the battery for about 1.5
> hours.
>

You need a battery to make the engine run?


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only have
>> enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for the
>> flight deck?
>
> That's already quite a while. How much battery power would you expect? The
> aircraft is designed so that it should never have to get by on battery power
> alone.

Well Mr. Aviation, the little 1320# plane I'm building should be able to
run without the alternator charging the battery for about 1.5 hours.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Michael Huber wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
>> Well looking at Larry's message that he says he sent a cancel message
>> and the follow up message I think the difference was 4 minutes.
>
> FWIW, I did not see Larry's original message, though I have no way of
> telling whether the cancel was honored by T-Online or a server further
> upstream.
>
> What was the content, subject or msg-id of the test message you sent and
> cancelled? I am not seeing an obvious "test, I will cancel this" message
> from you.
>


I didn't make another message and cancel it. I canceled the message that
was my reply to Larry's original message.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
> :
>
>> Mxsmanic wrote:
>>> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>>>
>>>> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only
>>>> have enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for
>>>> the flight deck?
>>> That's already quite a while. How much battery power would you
>>> expect? The aircraft is designed so that it should never have to get
>>> by on battery power alone.
>> Well Mr. Aviation, the little 1320# plane I'm building should be able
>> to run without the alternator charging the battery for about 1.5
>> hours.
>>
>
> You need a battery to make the engine run?
>
>
> Bertie


Yep. No Mags

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in news:13on0s0226urne1
@news.supernews.com:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Mxsmanic wrote:
>>>> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Now for the guys with "Heavy" experience. Does the 747 really only
>>>>> have enough onboard battery power to last a little over an hour for
>>>>> the flight deck?
>>>> That's already quite a while. How much battery power would you
>>>> expect? The aircraft is designed so that it should never have to get
>>>> by on battery power alone.
>>> Well Mr. Aviation, the little 1320# plane I'm building should be able
>>> to run without the alternator charging the battery for about 1.5
>>> hours.
>>>
>>
>> You need a battery to make the engine run?
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
>
> Yep. No Mags
>

Yipes! Braver man than me. A friend is just finishing a Sonerai. It has a
mag and electronic ignition. Bertie like.


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Yipes! Braver man than me. A friend is just finishing a Sonerai. It has a
> mag and electronic ignition. Bertie like.
>
>
> Bertie

The Corvair conversion uses single plug per cylinder and dual and
separate ignition system. Originally it was two points based ignitions
now it is one electronic and one points.

If you're interested look at http://www.flycorvair.com/

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> Yipes! Braver man than me. A friend is just finishing a Sonerai. It
>> has a mag and electronic ignition. Bertie like.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> The Corvair conversion uses single plug per cylinder and dual and
> separate ignition system. Originally it was two points based ignitions
> now it is one electronic and one points.
>
> If you're interested look at http://www.flycorvair.com/
>

Ah, OK, I've seen your site a few times. I helped a friend build a corvair
powered Piet a looong time ago. He eventaully did finish it BTW.
He had a bunch of Corvairs for a while. his daily drive was a beat up old
1961 Monza. It did go! We found an abandoned blower engined one and pulled
the engine out of it, planning to put it on the airplane, bu tit would up
on the Monza. I remember the bearings for the blower cost more than all the
other parts for the rebuild combined. I even raced it once. He was under
age and I wasnt when we showed up ( timed event) so I got to drive. It was
quick though it was still a four carb engine then! Weird oversteer...
AFAIK he flew the Piet with a two carb setup and it went well, but I never
got to see it flying..
nice little engine. I would have thought it was too heavy for your airplane
though?


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>>> Yipes! Braver man than me. A friend is just finishing a Sonerai. It
>>> has a mag and electronic ignition. Bertie like.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> The Corvair conversion uses single plug per cylinder and dual and
>> separate ignition system. Originally it was two points based ignitions
>> now it is one electronic and one points.
>>
>> If you're interested look at http://www.flycorvair.com/
>>
>
> Ah, OK, I've seen your site a few times. I helped a friend build a corvair
> powered Piet a looong time ago. He eventaully did finish it BTW.
> He had a bunch of Corvairs for a while. his daily drive was a beat up old
> 1961 Monza. It did go! We found an abandoned blower engined one and pulled
> the engine out of it, planning to put it on the airplane, bu tit would up
> on the Monza. I remember the bearings for the blower cost more than all the
> other parts for the rebuild combined. I even raced it once. He was under
> age and I wasnt when we showed up ( timed event) so I got to drive. It was
> quick though it was still a four carb engine then! Weird oversteer...
> AFAIK he flew the Piet with a two carb setup and it went well, but I never
> got to see it flying..
> nice little engine. I would have thought it was too heavy for your airplane
> though?
>
>
> Bertie

As far as weight goes it is just about the same installed weight as an
O-200 (which is what the factory built LSA 601XL uses)and that six
cylinder runs like an electric motor compared to a Lyc or Cont. 4 cylinder.

William Wynne has come up with some modifications since the Piets used
the engine that have reduced weight somewhat. For one at least some of
the Peits kept the factory colling fan. It's not there in the 601XL install.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yipes! Braver man than me. A friend is just finishing a Sonerai. It
>>>> has a mag and electronic ignition. Bertie like.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> The Corvair conversion uses single plug per cylinder and dual and
>>> separate ignition system. Originally it was two points based
>>> ignitions now it is one electronic and one points.
>>>
>>> If you're interested look at http://www.flycorvair.com/
>>>
>>
>> Ah, OK, I've seen your site a few times. I helped a friend build a
>> corvair powered Piet a looong time ago. He eventaully did finish it
>> BTW. He had a bunch of Corvairs for a while. his daily drive was a
>> beat up old 1961 Monza. It did go! We found an abandoned blower
>> engined one and pulled the engine out of it, planning to put it on
>> the airplane, bu tit would up on the Monza. I remember the bearings
>> for the blower cost more than all the other parts for the rebuild
>> combined. I even raced it once. He was under age and I wasnt when we
>> showed up ( timed event) so I got to drive. It was quick though it
>> was still a four carb engine then! Weird oversteer... AFAIK he flew
>> the Piet with a two carb setup and it went well, but I never got to
>> see it flying.. nice little engine. I would have thought it was too
>> heavy for your airplane though?
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> As far as weight goes it is just about the same installed weight as an
> O-200 (which is what the factory built LSA 601XL uses)and that six
> cylinder runs like an electric motor compared to a Lyc or Cont. 4
> cylinder.

Well it would!

I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.


>
> William Wynne has come up with some modifications since the Piets used
> the engine that have reduced weight somewhat. For one at least some of
> the Peits kept the factory colling fan. It's not there in the 601XL
> install.

Mmm, I remember seeing them at OSH like that. I think my friend was
going for cub type eyebrows.
>

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

>
> I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.
>
>

The Rotax, Jabiru and O-200 were all FWF options that the factory
directly supported. They now list the William Wynne Corvair conversion
on their website and have had his plane at their booth at the last two
OSH and SnF shows.

In fact a guy recently had the DAR inspect his Corvair powered 601XL for
an E-LSA certificate and was given only a 5 hour phase I test period
because he felt that it was one of the engines that the factory suggested.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>>
>> I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.
>>
>>
>
> The Rotax, Jabiru and O-200 were all FWF options that the factory
> directly supported. They now list the William Wynne Corvair conversion
> on their website and have had his plane at their booth at the last two
> OSH and SnF shows.
>
> In fact a guy recently had the DAR inspect his Corvair powered 601XL
> for an E-LSA certificate and was given only a 5 hour phase I test
> period because he felt that it was one of the engines that the factory
> suggested.
>
Wow! 5 hours for a car engine? That's amazing!

Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>>> I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.
>>>
>>>
>> The Rotax, Jabiru and O-200 were all FWF options that the factory
>> directly supported. They now list the William Wynne Corvair conversion
>> on their website and have had his plane at their booth at the last two
>> OSH and SnF shows.
>>
>> In fact a guy recently had the DAR inspect his Corvair powered 601XL
>> for an E-LSA certificate and was given only a 5 hour phase I test
>> period because he felt that it was one of the engines that the factory
>> suggested.
>>
> Wow! 5 hours for a car engine? That's amazing!
>


I thought it was a little low myself.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The Rotax, Jabiru and O-200 were all FWF options that the factory
>>> directly supported. They now list the William Wynne Corvair conversion
>>> on their website and have had his plane at their booth at the last two
>>> OSH and SnF shows.
>>>
>>> In fact a guy recently had the DAR inspect his Corvair powered 601XL
>>> for an E-LSA certificate and was given only a 5 hour phase I test
>>> period because he felt that it was one of the engines that the factory
>>> suggested.
>>>
>> Wow! 5 hours for a car engine? That's amazing!
>>
>
>
> I thought it was a little low myself.
>

That's 5 extra on top of th e25 hour fly of, or just five hours for an
engine type change?


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The Rotax, Jabiru and O-200 were all FWF options that the factory
>>>> directly supported. They now list the William Wynne Corvair conversion
>>>> on their website and have had his plane at their booth at the last two
>>>> OSH and SnF shows.
>>>>
>>>> In fact a guy recently had the DAR inspect his Corvair powered 601XL
>>>> for an E-LSA certificate and was given only a 5 hour phase I test
>>>> period because he felt that it was one of the engines that the factory
>>>> suggested.
>>>>
>>> Wow! 5 hours for a car engine? That's amazing!
>>>
>>
>> I thought it was a little low myself.
>>
>
> That's 5 extra on top of th e25 hour fly of, or just five hours for an
> engine type change?
>
>
> Bertie

5 Hours total new airplane, new engine.

It is a temporary glitch in the E-LSA rules. Under the rules as they
will stand after Jan. 31 of this month an E-LSA can only be a kit built
version of a "certified" S-LSA with no significant changes. The 51% rule
doesn't apply.

In order to get the heavy ULs under the new rules there has been a
temporary period where those craft could be grandfathered in under the
E-LSA rules even though they don't necessarily meet the E-LSA rules for
matching a certified LSA.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought the 601 was a rotax/jabiru type of machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The Rotax, Jabiru and O-200 were all FWF options that the factory
>>>>> directly supported. They now list the William Wynne Corvair
>>>>> conversion on their website and have had his plane at their booth
>>>>> at the last two OSH and SnF shows.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact a guy recently had the DAR inspect his Corvair powered
>>>>> 601XL for an E-LSA certificate and was given only a 5 hour phase I
>>>>> test period because he felt that it was one of the engines that
>>>>> the factory suggested.
>>>>>
>>>> Wow! 5 hours for a car engine? That's amazing!
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought it was a little low myself.
>>>
>>
>> That's 5 extra on top of th e25 hour fly of, or just five hours for
>> an engine type change?
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> 5 Hours total new airplane, new engine.

Yipes!
>
> It is a temporary glitch in the E-LSA rules. Under the rules as they
> will stand after Jan. 31 of this month an E-LSA can only be a kit
> built version of a "certified" S-LSA with no significant changes. The
> 51% rule doesn't apply.
>
> In order to get the heavy ULs under the new rules there has been a
> temporary period where those craft could be grandfathered in under the
> E-LSA rules even though they don't necessarily meet the E-LSA rules
> for matching a certified LSA.
>

mmm, OK. That'd make your airplane a bit more valuable, I would think.

I've seen a lot of KRs and Sonerais with Corvairs, that cant be such a
good idea, eh? They prolly either need a fuse extension or a buttload of
lead to make the fly at all.

Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

>
> mmm, OK. That'd make your airplane a bit more valuable, I would think.

If you mean more valuable as a E-LSA sure. If I could get it finished
before the end of this month. Which ain't gonna happen.

>
> I've seen a lot of KRs and Sonerais with Corvairs, that cant be such a
> good idea, eh? They prolly either need a fuse extension or a buttload of
> lead to make the fly at all.
>
> Bertie

I've flown in one KR2 (here it is http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/) and
seen several others with Corvairs and they are quick. I'm talking
>180MPH. I didn't notice any lead and though the one I was in was wider
than normal.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>>
>> mmm, OK. That'd make your airplane a bit more valuable, I would
>> think.
>
> If you mean more valuable as a E-LSA sure. If I could get it finished
> before the end of this month. Which ain't gonna happen.
>
>>
>> I've seen a lot of KRs and Sonerais with Corvairs, that cant be such
>> a good idea, eh? They prolly either need a fuse extension or a
>> buttload of lead to make the fly at all.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I've flown in one KR2 (here it is http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/)
> and seen several others with Corvairs and they are quick. I'm talking
> >180MPH. I didn't notice any lead and though the one I was in was
> >wider
> than normal.
>

He must have made t it at least a bit longer to compensate for the
significantly heavier engine, though.

Bertie