Medical and severe allergies

[Robert M. Gary]

Has anyone on this list had experience with getting a student his
medical certificate if the student has severe allergies? This student
has a really bad peanut alergy. If I eat a peanut butter sandwich
before a lesson we could get hives and if he were to accidently eat a
peanut he could go into shock. He carries an Epipen and makes sure
those around him know how to use it.
I'm just curious if anyone on this list has any first hand experience
with getting a medical under these conditions. Is it somewhat straight
forward, very hard, or not possible?

Thanks!
-Robert

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote

> Has anyone on this list had experience with getting a student his
> medical certificate if the student has severe allergies? This student
> has a really bad peanut alergy. If I eat a peanut butter sandwich
> before a lesson we could get hives and if he were to accidently eat a
> peanut he could go into shock. He carries an Epipen and makes sure
> those around him know how to use it.
> I'm just curious if anyone on this list has any first hand experience
> with getting a medical under these conditions. Is it somewhat straight
> forward, very hard, or not possible?

Allergies should not be disqualifying. Of course, check with AOPA and your
FSDO, to get the real poop, without peanuts.
--
Jim in NC

[Denny]

When dealing with the FAA the pilot needs to follow Billy Boy's
advice - Don't ask, Don't tell...

denny

[Steve Foley]

"Denny" > wrote in message
...
> When dealing with the FAA the pilot needs to follow Billy Boy's
> advice - Don't ask, Don't tell...


Unfortunately, they ask:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/e/

Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
Application Process for Medical Certification
Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
e. Hay fever or allergy
The applicant should report frequency and duration of symptoms, and whether
they have been incapacitating by the condition. Mention should also be made
of treatment and side effects. The Examiner should inquire whether the
applicant has ever experienced any "ear block", barotitis, or any other
symptoms that could interfere with aviation safety? Barosinusitis is of
concern and should also be ruled out. (See Item 26).

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 4:58*am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:

> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/...
>
> Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
> Application Process for Medical Certification
> Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
> e. Hay fever or allergy
> The applicant should report frequency and duration of symptoms, and whether
> they have been incapacitating by the condition. Mention should also be made
> of treatment and side effects. The Examiner should inquire whether the
> applicant has ever experienced any "ear block", barotitis, or any other
> symptoms that could interfere with aviation safety? Barosinusitis is of
> concern and should also be ruled out. (See Item 26).

That is my concern. The frequency is anytime he is exposed to peanuts
and the symptoms are anaphylactic shock that could result in his death
if someone nearby is not able to administer the Epipen. His symptoms
are almost immediate though. So, it would make logical sense that if
he was not exposed to peanuts before he got in the plane, he is not
likely to be exposed to them while airborne. Just curious if anyone on
this list has personal experience dealing with the FAA on this. I can
tell the student what my personal AME may say about it and what AOPA
may say but sometimes its also very helpful to be able to offer a
personal experience as well. I don't want to get this young man
invested in aviation without first giving him a realistic expectation
of what his medical may require.

-Robert, CFII

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Jan 22, 4:58 am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
>
>> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/...
>>
>> Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
>> Application Process for Medical Certification
>> Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
>> e. Hay fever or allergy
>> The applicant should report frequency and duration of symptoms, and whether
>> they have been incapacitating by the condition. Mention should also be made
>> of treatment and side effects. The Examiner should inquire whether the
>> applicant has ever experienced any "ear block", barotitis, or any other
>> symptoms that could interfere with aviation safety? Barosinusitis is of
>> concern and should also be ruled out. (See Item 26).
>
> That is my concern. The frequency is anytime he is exposed to peanuts
> and the symptoms are anaphylactic shock that could result in his death
> if someone nearby is not able to administer the Epipen. His symptoms
> are almost immediate though. So, it would make logical sense that if
> he was not exposed to peanuts before he got in the plane, he is not
> likely to be exposed to them while airborne. Just curious if anyone on
> this list has personal experience dealing with the FAA on this. I can
> tell the student what my personal AME may say about it and what AOPA
> may say but sometimes its also very helpful to be able to offer a
> personal experience as well. I don't want to get this young man
> invested in aviation without first giving him a realistic expectation
> of what his medical may require.
>
> -Robert, CFII
>


When you say exposed do you mean eat or come direct contact with? Or do
you mean the guy next to him opens a bag of Planter's.


If it is the later, he has an allergy that would most certainly render
him unable to act as PIC. What happens if he rents a plane and the guy
before him had a snack on a X-C flight? Or if one of his passengers
doesn't know he has an allergy or that the candy bar that they have with
them has peanuts in it.

[Jim Stewart]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> On Jan 22, 4:58 am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/...
>>>
>>> Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
>>> Application Process for Medical Certification
>>> Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
>>> e. Hay fever or allergy
>>> The applicant should report frequency and duration of symptoms, and
>>> whether
>>> they have been incapacitating by the condition. Mention should also
>>> be made
>>> of treatment and side effects. The Examiner should inquire whether the
>>> applicant has ever experienced any "ear block", barotitis, or any other
>>> symptoms that could interfere with aviation safety? Barosinusitis is of
>>> concern and should also be ruled out. (See Item 26).
>>
>> That is my concern. The frequency is anytime he is exposed to peanuts
>> and the symptoms are anaphylactic shock that could result in his death
>> if someone nearby is not able to administer the Epipen. His symptoms
>> are almost immediate though. So, it would make logical sense that if
>> he was not exposed to peanuts before he got in the plane, he is not
>> likely to be exposed to them while airborne. Just curious if anyone on
>> this list has personal experience dealing with the FAA on this. I can
>> tell the student what my personal AME may say about it and what AOPA
>> may say but sometimes its also very helpful to be able to offer a
>> personal experience as well. I don't want to get this young man
>> invested in aviation without first giving him a realistic expectation
>> of what his medical may require.
>>
>> -Robert, CFII
>>
>
>
> When you say exposed do you mean eat or come direct contact with? Or do
> you mean the guy next to him opens a bag of Planter's.
>
>
> If it is the later, he has an allergy that would most certainly render
> him unable to act as PIC. What happens if he rents a plane and the guy
> before him had a snack on a X-C flight? Or if one of his passengers
> doesn't know he has an allergy or that the candy bar that they have with
> them has peanuts in it.

Or he flies over a peanut processing plant...

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 9:38*am, Gig 601XL Builder >
wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > On Jan 22, 4:58 am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
>
> >>http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/...
>
> >> Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
> >> Application Process for Medical Certification
> >> Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
> >> e. Hay fever or allergy
> >> The applicant should report frequency and duration of symptoms, and whether
> >> they have been incapacitating by the condition. Mention should also be made
> >> of treatment and side effects. The Examiner should inquire whether the
> >> applicant has ever experienced any "ear block", barotitis, or any other
> >> symptoms that could interfere with aviation safety? Barosinusitis is of
> >> concern and should also be ruled out. (See Item 26).
>
> > That is my concern. The frequency is anytime he is exposed to peanuts
> > and the symptoms are anaphylactic shock that could result in his death
> > if someone nearby is not able to administer the Epipen. His symptoms
> > are almost immediate though. So, it would make logical sense that if
> > he was not exposed to peanuts before he got in the plane, he is not
> > likely to be exposed to them while airborne. Just curious if anyone on
> > this list has personal experience dealing with the FAA on this. I can
> > tell the student what my personal AME may say about it and what AOPA
> > may say but sometimes its also very helpful to be able to offer a
> > personal experience as well. I don't want to get this young man
> > invested in aviation without first giving him a realistic expectation
> > of what his medical may require.
>
> > -Robert, CFII
>
> When you say exposed do you mean eat or come direct contact with? Or do
> you mean the guy next to him opens a bag of Planter's.

If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
enough and he dropped to the floor.
It would just be too bad if he couldn't fly. If he's exposed to nuts
he would know right away, its not like he could be fine, take off, and
then discover nuts in the plane. However, if someone opened some in
the cockpit it could be bad.

-Robert

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
> of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
> are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
> allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
> that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
> enough and he dropped to the floor.

Allergic reactions can also be psychogenic, which bodes even worse for
obtaining a medical.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 10:30*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
> > school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
> > of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
> > are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
> > allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
> > that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
> > enough and he dropped to the floor.
>
> Allergic reactions can also be psychogenic, which bodes even worse for
> obtaining a medical.

No, when they test you for allergies they don't tell you which part of
the skin they put which allergen. It would be pretty tough to only
break out in certain areas.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 10:30*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
> > school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
> > of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
> > are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
> > allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
> > that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
> > enough and he dropped to the floor.
>
> Allergic reactions can also be psychogenic, which bodes even worse for
> obtaining a medical.

BTW: This is a well known allergy. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-allergy/DS00710

"Peanut allergy affects approximately 1.5 million people in the United
States. As the most common cause of life-threatening allergic
reactions (anaphylaxis), peanut allergies account for 80 percent of
fatal or near-fatal allergic reactions each year. You can reduce your
risk of having an allergic reaction to peanuts by knowing as much as
you can about peanut allergy and how to avoid peanut-containing
products."

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> No, when they test you for allergies they don't tell you which part of
> the skin they put which allergen. It would be pretty tough to only
> break out in certain areas.

True, but when you see someone open a bag of nuts, you know that the allergen
is at least theoretically present. Asthma, for example, is famous for being
an allergy that can be triggered not only by actual exposure to allergens but
also psychogenically, and allergic reactions in general are in a category of
physiological responses that are strongly influenced by emotion and mental
state.

In any case, if a person develops a dangerous allergic reaction just by having
a bag of peanuts opened nearby, it does not bode well for a medical, as I've
indicated, because, as others have pointed out, the previous person in the
aircraft could have eaten peanuts or a Snickers bar, and so on. Someone that
sensitive can scarcely risk walking down the street or going into any public
place.

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> BTW: This is a well known allergy. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-allergy/DS00710
>
> "Peanut allergy affects approximately 1.5 million people in the United
> States. As the most common cause of life-threatening allergic
> reactions (anaphylaxis), peanut allergies account for 80 percent of
> fatal or near-fatal allergic reactions each year. You can reduce your
> risk of having an allergic reaction to peanuts by knowing as much as
> you can about peanut allergy and how to avoid peanut-containing
> products."

Yes, it's among the most common food allergies, but it's still rare. And
allergic reactions can still be triggered psychogenically as well, especially
among people who have strong allergic reactions of purely physiological
origin.

There's a huge difference between consuming peanut products and having someone
open a bag of peanuts nearby. In the former case it would be easy to avoid
any allergy problems while flying; in the latter case, no place is safe,
including a cockpit.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 11:05*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > No, when they test you for allergies they don't tell you which part of
> > the skin they put which allergen. It would be pretty tough to only
> > break out in certain areas.
>
> True, but when you see someone open a bag of nuts, you know that the allergen
> is at least theoretically present. *Asthma, for example, is famous for being
> an allergy that can be triggered not only by actual exposure to allergens but
> also psychogenically, and allergic reactions in general are in a category of
> physiological responses that are strongly influenced by emotion and mental
> state.

He didn't learn about the peanuts until after he broke out. Thiis is
not a rare thing, in fact its very common. If you notice in the story
when you buy cookies there will be a warning label of the factory also
has nuts. Some restaurants also have warning signs.

> In any case, if a person develops a dangerous allergic reaction just by having
> a bag of peanuts opened nearby, it does not bode well for a medical, as I've
> indicated, because, as others have pointed out, the previous person in the
> aircraft could have eaten peanuts or a Snickers bar, and so on. *Someone that
> sensitive can scarcely risk walking down the street or going into any public
> place.

But he would react during the preflight, not in flight. It is hard for
him to be in public. He wasn't able to go to public school or ride
public transportation later.

-Robet

[Dallas]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:54:01 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:

> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
> of nuts.

These peanut allergy people really have a tough life as peanut by-products
can be used in just about anything processed. There's a chance that eating
a bag potato chips could set him off if he didn't read the label or the
factory was sloppy in listing their ingredients or cleaning their
equipment.

I would bet the risk of incapacitation is too high in his case for the FAA
to be comfortable giving him a medical. Please let us know how it turns
out, I'm sure several of us are curious.


--
Dallas

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Robert M. Gary > posted:

> On Jan 22, 9:38 am, Gig 601XL Builder >
> wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>> On Jan 22, 4:58 am, "Steve Foley" >
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/...
>>
>>>> Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners
>>>> Application Process for Medical Certification
>>>> Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
>>>> e. Hay fever or allergy
>>>> The applicant should report frequency and duration of symptoms,
>>>> and whether they have been incapacitating by the condition.
>>>> Mention should also be made of treatment and side effects. The
>>>> Examiner should inquire whether the applicant has ever experienced
>>>> any "ear block", barotitis, or any other symptoms that could
>>>> interfere with aviation safety? Barosinusitis is of concern and
>>>> should also be ruled out. (See Item 26).
>>
>>> That is my concern. The frequency is anytime he is exposed to
>>> peanuts and the symptoms are anaphylactic shock that could result
>>> in his death if someone nearby is not able to administer the
>>> Epipen. His symptoms are almost immediate though. So, it would make
>>> logical sense that if he was not exposed to peanuts before he got
>>> in the plane, he is not likely to be exposed to them while
>>> airborne. Just curious if anyone on this list has personal
>>> experience dealing with the FAA on this. I can tell the student
>>> what my personal AME may say about it and what AOPA may say but
>>> sometimes its also very helpful to be able to offer a personal
>>> experience as well. I don't want to get this young man invested in
>>> aviation without first giving him a realistic expectation of what
>>> his medical may require.
>>
>>> -Robert, CFII
>>
>> When you say exposed do you mean eat or come direct contact with? Or
>> do you mean the guy next to him opens a bag of Planter's.
>
> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
> of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
> are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
> allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
> that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
> enough and he dropped to the floor.
> It would just be too bad if he couldn't fly. If he's exposed to nuts
> he would know right away, its not like he could be fine, take off, and
> then discover nuts in the plane. However, if someone opened some in
> the cockpit it could be bad.
>
> -Robert
>
Having read many of the messages in this thread, I have to wonder whether
the best course of action would be to use his condition as an excercise in
judgement. Point out soem of the risks that have been mentioned and ask
him if *he* thinks it is reasonable or wise to pursue an Airman's
Certificate.

Regards,

Neil

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
> of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
> are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
> allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
> that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
> enough and he dropped to the floor.
> It would just be too bad if he couldn't fly. If he's exposed to nuts
> he would know right away, its not like he could be fine, take off, and
> then discover nuts in the plane. However, if someone opened some in
> the cockpit it could be bad.
>
> -Robert

If he really wants to fly I think his only option is to go LSA and buy
his on plane and NEVER let any food product that he isn't 100% sure is
peanut free ever enter the aircraft.

And if he can't stick himself in the leg with an epi-pen and continue to
fly I wouldn't even suggest that. I'd even go so far as saying he needs
to test himself on this with another pilot in the plane with him.

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> He didn't learn about the peanuts until after he broke out. Thiis is
> not a rare thing, in fact its very common. If you notice in the story
> when you buy cookies there will be a warning label of the factory also
> has nuts. Some restaurants also have warning signs.

Mainly because of liability issues. Ten or twenty years ago, it was sulfite
reactions. Every generation has its popular ailments. The only constant
trend is an ever-increasing fear of everything.

> But he would react during the preflight, not in flight.

But can he be sure of that? Allergic reactions don't always occur
immediately. What if there is peanut dust in the cockpit, and it doesn't get
really stirred up until air in the cockpit starts moving around after
take-off? Can he take the risk?

> It is hard for him to be in public. He wasn't able to go to public
> school or ride public transportation later.

Then flying on his own is going to be a real problem. Best not to say
anything about that unless explicitly asked.

[Mxsmanic]

Dallas writes:

> These peanut allergy people really have a tough life as peanut by-products
> can be used in just about anything processed. There's a chance that eating
> a bag potato chips could set him off if he didn't read the label or the
> factory was sloppy in listing their ingredients or cleaning their
> equipment.
>
> I would bet the risk of incapacitation is too high in his case for the FAA
> to be comfortable giving him a medical. Please let us know how it turns
> out, I'm sure several of us are curious.

Since the FAA is so paranoid about so many other potential (but often
farfetched) causes of incapacitation, I should think this would make them
shiver with apprehension, but who knows?

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

> And if he can't stick himself in the leg with an epi-pen and continue to
> fly I wouldn't even suggest that. I'd even go so far as saying he needs
> to test himself on this with another pilot in the plane with him.

Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you to fly as
long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like that exists for deaf
people, I think)?

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> And if he can't stick himself in the leg with an epi-pen and continue to
>> fly I wouldn't even suggest that. I'd even go so far as saying he needs
>> to test himself on this with another pilot in the plane with him.
>
> Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you to fly as
> long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like that exists for deaf
> people, I think)?


He can do that right now. It's called being a passenger.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote

"Peanut allergy affects approximately 1.5 million people in the United
States. As the most common cause of life-threatening allergic
reactions (anaphylaxis), peanut allergies account for 80 percent of
fatal or near-fatal allergic reactions each year. You can reduce your
risk of having an allergic reaction to peanuts by knowing as much as
you can about peanut allergy and how to avoid peanut-containing
products."

Morgan writes:

Yep. As a side note, remember back a while, when some airline flights did
not serve food on short flights, they would still give you a snack? It was
often peanuts.

The people with peanut allergies were able to get peanuts banned, because of
the severity of the reactions when a hundred people opened up bags of
peanuts, in a relatively stagnant tube of pressurized air.

I don't mind, since the reactions are so severe.

I don't know what the right thing to do in the case is, but it seems
unlikely that there would be any problem, as long as his passengers know
that they should not open any food, until it is confirmed that they contain
no peanuts.
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Dohm]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
>> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
>> of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
>> are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
>> allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
>> that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
>> enough and he dropped to the floor.
>
> Allergic reactions can also be psychogenic, which bodes even worse for
> obtaining a medical.

Speaking of exposure to nuts...

[Peter Dohm]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote
>
> "Peanut allergy affects approximately 1.5 million people in the United
> States. As the most common cause of life-threatening allergic
> reactions (anaphylaxis), peanut allergies account for 80 percent of
> fatal or near-fatal allergic reactions each year. You can reduce your
> risk of having an allergic reaction to peanuts by knowing as much as
> you can about peanut allergy and how to avoid peanut-containing
> products."
>
> Morgan writes:
>
> Yep. As a side note, remember back a while, when some airline flights did
> not serve food on short flights, they would still give you a snack? It
> was often peanuts.
>
> The people with peanut allergies were able to get peanuts banned, because
> of the severity of the reactions when a hundred people opened up bags of
> peanuts, in a relatively stagnant tube of pressurized air.
>
> I don't mind, since the reactions are so severe.
>
> I don't know what the right thing to do in the case is, but it seems
> unlikely that there would be any problem, as long as his passengers know
> that they should not open any food, until it is confirmed that they
> contain no peanuts.
> --
> Jim in NC
>
Well, since I am presently in a politically incorrect frame of mind, I do
mind--and I want my snacks back.

Peter
(Not that I ride in the giant mailing tubes without a damned good reason in
any case.)

[Peter Dohm]

"Gig 601XL Builder" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
>> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
>> of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
>> are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
>> allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
>> that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
>> enough and he dropped to the floor.
>> It would just be too bad if he couldn't fly. If he's exposed to nuts
>> he would know right away, its not like he could be fine, take off, and
>> then discover nuts in the plane. However, if someone opened some in
>> the cockpit it could be bad.
>>
>> -Robert
>
> If he really wants to fly I think his only option is to go LSA and buy his
> on plane and NEVER let any food product that he isn't 100% sure is peanut
> free ever enter the aircraft.
>
> And if he can't stick himself in the leg with an epi-pen and continue to
> fly I wouldn't even suggest that. I'd even go so far as saying he needs to
> test himself on this with another pilot in the plane with him.
>
>
Seriously, from a purely practical as opposed to regulatory viewpoint, that
is the only real solution--if he really wants to fly.

Peter
(Just my $0.02 as a layman)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> If he eats some he could lose consciousness. He said he was on a
>> school bus once and some kids in the row in front of him opened a bag
>> of nuts. He broke out in hives. I'm not sure how limiting the hives
>> are to PIC. Apparently peanuts give of a dust that some are very
>> allergic to (learn something new everyday). He did use a spoon once
>> that had been used for peanut butter and apparently not cleaned well
>> enough and he dropped to the floor.
>
> Allergic reactions can also be psychogenic, which bodes even worse for
> obtaining a medical.


Like your allergy to reality.

Bertie
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> No, when they test you for allergies they don't tell you which part
>> of the skin they put which allergen. It would be pretty tough to only
>> break out in certain areas.
>
> True, but when you see someone open a bag of nuts, you know that the
> allergen is at least theoretically present. Asthma, for example, is
> famous for being an allergy that can be triggered not only by actual
> exposure to allergens but also psychogenically, and allergic reactions
> in general are in a category of physiological responses that are
> strongly influenced by emotion and mental state.
>
> In any case, if a person develops a dangerous allergic reaction just
> by having a bag of peanuts opened nearby,

Wheras you just look for the crumbs, eh?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> BTW: This is a well known allergy.
>> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-allergy/DS00710
>>
>> "Peanut allergy affects approximately 1.5 million people in the
>> United States. As the most common cause of life-threatening allergic
>> reactions (anaphylaxis), peanut allergies account for 80 percent of
>> fatal or near-fatal allergic reactions each year. You can reduce your
>> risk of having an allergic reaction to peanuts by knowing as much as
>> you can about peanut allergy and how to avoid peanut-containing
>> products."
>
> Yes, it's among the most common food allergies, but it's still rare.
> And allergic reactions can still be triggered psychogenically as well,
> especially among people who have strong allergic reactions of purely
> physiological origin.
>
> There's a huge difference between consuming peanut products and having
> someone open a bag of peanuts nearby. In the former case it would be
> easy to avoid any allergy problems while flying; in the latter case,
> no place is safe, including a cockpit.
>

Bwawhawhahhwhahwhahwhahhahhahwhahhwahhwhahwhahwhah whahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhah!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Dallas writes:
>
>> These peanut allergy people really have a tough life as peanut
>> by-products can be used in just about anything processed. There's a
>> chance that eating a bag potato chips could set him off if he didn't
>> read the label or the factory was sloppy in listing their ingredients
>> or cleaning their equipment.
>>
>> I would bet the risk of incapacitation is too high in his case for
>> the FAA to be comfortable giving him a medical. Please let us know
>> how it turns out, I'm sure several of us are curious.
>
> Since the FAA is so paranoid about so many other potential (but often
> farfetched) causes of incapacitation, I should think this would make
> them shiver with apprehension, but who knows?




I do. Send me $50 and I'll tell you.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> And if he can't stick himself in the leg with an epi-pen and continue
>> to fly I wouldn't even suggest that. I'd even go so far as saying he
>> needs to test himself on this with another pilot in the plane with
>> him.
>
> Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you
> to fly as long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like
> that exists for deaf people, I think)?


I don't think they'd have one for you Anthony. Being a tit isn't in any of
the manuals, AFAIK


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you to
> fly as
> long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like that exists for
> deaf
> people, I think)?

Actually, deaf pilots can fly solo in the US. There is even a "Deaf Pilots
Association" which holds an annual fly-in.

There used to be a regular poster here from the DPA (Henry Kisor).
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 6:58*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you to
> > fly as
> > long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like that exists for
> > deaf
> > people, I think)?
>
> Actually, deaf pilots can fly solo in the US. * There is even a "Deaf Pilots
> Association" which holds an annual fly-in.

I was wondering about that because Anthony's assertion that there is a
specical medical for deaf pilots that only allows them to fly with
another pilot makes no sense. First, what would be the purpose of such
a medical since you don't need a medical to fly with another pilot?
Second, how could you get a private without meeting the solo
requirements?
I have heard that sometimes the FAA will approve a medical for solo
only. I'm not sure what the name of it is but I remember reading an
AOPA article about a guy who finally got to solo but the article
mentioned that the medical he was able to get was limited to just that
solo flight.



-Robert.

[Mxsmanic]

Robert M. Gary writes:

> I was wondering about that because Anthony's assertion that there is a
> specical medical for deaf pilots that only allows them to fly with
> another pilot makes no sense.

A deaf pilot can get just about any certificate except certain types of
commercial certificate; essentially she can obtain anything that doesn't
require radio communication. During the medical, she must take a Special
Medical Flight Test to verify that she can recognize an engine failure,
recognize an approaching stall, and recognize retractable gear emergencies.
If she passes that, eventually she'll get a SODA and her medical.

> First, what would be the purpose of such
> a medical since you don't need a medical to fly with another pilot?

The medical allows a deaf pilot to fly alone.

> Second, how could you get a private without meeting the solo
> requirements?

Deaf pilots can solo by avoiding airspaces that require radio.

They can fly into controlled airspace requiring radio if they have a copilot
who can handle the radio. It's not clear whether this copilot must also be a
licensed pilot, but he probably does, since the deaf pilot's license
specifically says that it is valid only for flight without radio, so the
copilot would technically be the PIC and would therefore require a license of
his own, even if he were not flying the plane.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> I was wondering about that because Anthony's assertion that there is
>> a specical medical for deaf pilots that only allows them to fly with
>> another pilot makes no sense.
>
> A deaf pilot can get just about any certificate except certain types
> of commercial certificate; essentially she can obtain anything that
> doesn't require radio communication. During the medical, she must
> take a Special Medical Flight Test to verify that she can recognize an
> engine failure, recognize an approaching stall, and recognize
> retractable gear emergencies. If she passes that, eventually she'll
> get a SODA and her medical.

Oh brother. Now he's regulating.


Do they do that in sim world? After all they have littl eassholes
pretending to be ATC why not have a few virtual feds?


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
> Oh brother. Now he's regulating.

You know since MX has decided to come in here and bang around like a
bull in a china shop it might be fun to find out what server he uses and
spend some time just kamikazing him.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 11:11*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > I was wondering about that because Anthony's assertion that there is a
> > specical medical for deaf pilots that only allows them to fly with
> > another pilot makes no sense.
>
> A deaf pilot can get just about any certificate except certain types of
> commercial certificate; essentially she can obtain anything that doesn't
> require radio communication. *During the medical, she must take a Special
> Medical Flight Test to verify that she can recognize an engine failure,
> recognize an approaching stall, and recognize retractable gear emergencies..
> If she passes that, eventually she'll get a SODA and her medical.

I am aware of that. I was responding to your assertion...

"Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you
to fly as
long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like that exists
for deaf
people, I think)? "

To me that makes no sense what-so-ever. Such a medical, if issued,
seems to be equally as useful as no medical certificate.

-Robert

[Peter Dohm]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 11:11 am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > I was wondering about that because Anthony's assertion that there is a
> > specical medical for deaf pilots that only allows them to fly with
> > another pilot makes no sense.
>
> A deaf pilot can get just about any certificate except certain types of
> commercial certificate; essentially she can obtain anything that doesn't
> require radio communication. During the medical, she must take a Special
> Medical Flight Test to verify that she can recognize an engine failure,
> recognize an approaching stall, and recognize retractable gear
> emergencies.
> If she passes that, eventually she'll get a SODA and her medical.

I am aware of that. I was responding to your assertion...

"Isn't it possible to get some sort of medical waiver that allows you
to fly as
long as you have a safety pilot with you (something like that exists
for deaf
people, I think)? "

To me that makes no sense what-so-ever. Such a medical, if issued,
seems to be equally as useful as no medical certificate.

-Robert

Of course not, since the safety pilot would be the putative PIC and the deaf
pilot would logically be a passenger with some liability issues added.

Which is precisely what drives so many members of this group to distraction.
MX always has an opinion, on which he is always ready to expound; but his
opinions seem to be correct or incorrect approximately as random chance
might dictate.

Peter
(Grrr!)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in news:13pfbsogikqem04
@news.supernews.com:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>> Oh brother. Now he's regulating.
>
> You know since MX has decided to come in here and bang around like a
> bull in a china shop it might be fun to find out what server he uses and
> spend some time just kamikazing him.
>

You mean Netkkkopping?
He's not doing anything that would cause his server discomfort, for one
thing. I haven't seen an ISP who terms specify "no idiots"
I'm opposed to people netkkkopping in priciple in an case. Any idiot should
be able to say pretty much anything he wants, in my view.
Aside from any free speech issues, it makes for great entertainment.

Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in news:13pfbsogikqem04
> @news.supernews.com:
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Oh brother. Now he's regulating.
>> You know since MX has decided to come in here and bang around like a
>> bull in a china shop it might be fun to find out what server he uses and
>> spend some time just kamikazing him.
>>
>
> You mean Netkkkopping?
> He's not doing anything that would cause his server discomfort, for one
> thing. I haven't seen an ISP who terms specify "no idiots"
> I'm opposed to people netkkkopping in priciple in an case. Any idiot should
> be able to say pretty much anything he wants, in my view.
> Aside from any free speech issues, it makes for great entertainment.
>
> Bertie

No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.

Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 6:48*pm, "Peter Dohm" > wrote:

> Which is precisely what drives so many members of this group to distraction.

[Peter Dohm]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 6:48 pm, "Peter Dohm" > wrote:

> Which is precisely what drives so many members of this group to
> distraction.
> MX always has an opinion, on which he is always ready to expound; but his
> opinions seem to be correct or incorrect approximately as random chance
> might dictate.

A former coworker of mine would have discribed him as "often in error;
never in doubt".

-Robert

-----------------------------

Very true. :-(

Peter
The message highlighting problem also continues... :-(

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
>> news:13pfbsogikqem04 @news.supernews.com:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Oh brother. Now he's regulating.
>>> You know since MX has decided to come in here and bang around like a
>>> bull in a china shop it might be fun to find out what server he uses
>>> and spend some time just kamikazing him.
>>>
>>
>> You mean Netkkkopping?
>> He's not doing anything that would cause his server discomfort, for
>> one thing. I haven't seen an ISP who terms specify "no idiots"
>> I'm opposed to people netkkkopping in priciple in an case. Any idiot
>> should be able to say pretty much anything he wants, in my view.
>> Aside from any free speech issues, it makes for great entertainment.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
> simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.


Bwahwhahwhahwhahwhahahwh!


>
> Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.
>

Excellent!


Hmm, I see an F4F pulling into his six....

Bertie

[Steve Foley]

"Gig 601XL Builder" > wrote in message
...

> No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
> simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.
>
> Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.


http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Steve Foley wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
>> simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.
>>
>> Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.
>
>
> http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W
>
>
>

Thank you.

OH MY GOD!!!! He only has 47.5 hours of time logged. He's not even
experienced in sims.

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Steve Foley wrote:
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Steve Foley" > wrote in
> news:GG4mj.9248$ec.3772
>> @trndny02:
>>
>> Excellent.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I'll be checking youtube for the video.
>
>


What an excellent idea.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Steve Foley wrote:
>
>http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W

I couldn't help but laugh when I noticed that many of his flight plans list
2 or 3 pax onboard. Pretty sad when you have to take simulated friends
flying with you. I wonder if he has simulated conversations with his
passengers enroute? :-)))

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200801/1

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 10:21*am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" > wrote in ...
>
> > No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
> > simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.
>
> > Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.
>
> http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W

I'm not even sure what I'm looking at. It looks like Flightware.com.

-Robert

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in news:iN5mj.20634$%
p6.7569@trndny06:

> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Steve Foley" > wrote in
> news:GG4mj.9248$ec.3772
>> @trndny02:
>>
>> Excellent.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I'll be checking youtube for the video.
>
>

If I can figure out how!

As I logged on he was "flying" from Tahoe to somewhere. A 2 hour cross
country in a flight sim.

unreal.

Hey, I made a funny!


I was flying with a guy yesterday who has a friend that's like Anthony.
He's "Crew" in an airliner. You get a roster and have to log on for a
briefing at the correct time. They have virtual controllers and company
dispatchers!

Looooooseeeeerrs!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Steve Foley wrote:
>> "Gig 601XL Builder" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
>>> simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.
>>>
>>> Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.
>>
>>
>> http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thank you.
>
> OH MY GOD!!!! He only has 47.5 hours of time logged. He's not even
> experienced in sims.
>

Wow, he's just entering the 'Danger zone'


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote in
news:7eb45043fe0c5@uwe:

> Steve Foley wrote:
>>
>>http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W
>
> I couldn't help but laugh when I noticed that many of his flight
> plans list
> 2 or 3 pax onboard. Pretty sad when you have to take simulated
> friends flying with you. I wonder if he has simulated conversations
> with his passengers enroute? :-)))


Oh my God. I didn;'t see that. You don't think there are actualy four
people siting in front of the monitor when they do that?


Bertie

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Steve Foley" wrote:

>> No I mean simming in the same server he is simming on and piloting my
>> simulated aircraft into his simulated aircraft repeatably.
>>
>> Which is pretty much exactly what he does here.
>
>
> http://www.vataware.com/callsign.cfm?callsign=N1574W
>

Gawd, that's pathetic.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM