A BFR question

[Dallas]

Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.

Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
and rent an aircraft himself. I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
need a medical and a BFR.

He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
multiengine and instrument rating. Impressive stuff, but the last time he
flew was in 1983. While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
airspace was.

It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
books for a few weeks.

I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
current state.

--
Dallas

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 11:00*am, Dallas > wrote:
> Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.
>
> Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
> as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
> and rent an aircraft himself. * I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
> need a medical and a BFR.
>
> He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
> multiengine and instrument rating. *Impressive stuff, but the last time he
> flew was in 1983. *While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
> airspace was.
>
> It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
> fly in today's sky. *My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
> in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
> books for a few weeks.
>
> I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
> current state.

King makes a good DVD for just this situation. Its designed to help
pilots who have been out of the cockpit through the process. That is
what I recommend to students. Sure, they can pay me to teach it to
them but its usually more cost affective for them to get the DVDs
first so we can streamline what we talk about.
As to your question; I have no idea what any particular CFI may
require when performing a BFR.

-Robert, CFII

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/guides/getback_overview.html#80s

"If you have been out of flying since the '80s." may be helpful.

Jim

[kontiki]

Dallas wrote:
>
> It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
> fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
> in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
> books for a few weeks.
>
> I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
> current state.
>

Its clear he's a little behind the curve. It is up to the CFI who
does his BFR whether or not he is sufficiently proficient and
competent.

There are two parts to the BFR... ground and flight. The ground
portion reviews current FARs, airspace and flight planning issues.
If the CFI determines the pilot is not proficient with ground portion
does not preclude him from continuing on to the flight portion of the
review. He should not however, sign off the BFR if he feels the pilot
is deficient in the airspace knowledge you mention.

It would simply be a matter of scheduling additional time with the CFI
in training and/or review to the point where he would be comfortable
signing the man off for the BFR.

[Blueskies]

"kontiki" > wrote in message ...
> Dallas wrote:
>>
>> It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
>> fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
>> in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
>> books for a few weeks.
>>
>> I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
>> current state.
>>
>
> Its clear he's a little behind the curve. It is up to the CFI who
> does his BFR whether or not he is sufficiently proficient and
> competent.
>
> There are two parts to the BFR... ground and flight. The ground
> portion reviews current FARs, airspace and flight planning issues.
> If the CFI determines the pilot is not proficient with ground portion
> does not preclude him from continuing on to the flight portion of the
> review. He should not however, sign off the BFR if he feels the pilot
> is deficient in the airspace knowledge you mention.
>
> It would simply be a matter of scheduling additional time with the CFI
> in training and/or review to the point where he would be comfortable
> signing the man off for the BFR.
>
>

Took me two hours with a CFI, one on the ground talkin and one in the sky flyin, to get the bfr endorsement...after a 24
year and three month 'break'.

I did get a current copy of the AIM, some charts, and etc so I could distinguish the difference between Bravo and a TCA,
a control zone and Delta, etc.

That was three years ago...whatta blast flying again.

[150flivver]

On Jan 22, 1:00 pm, Dallas > wrote:
> Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.
>
> Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
> as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
> and rent an aircraft himself. I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
> need a medical and a BFR.
>
> He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
> multiengine and instrument rating. Impressive stuff, but the last time he
> flew was in 1983. While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
> airspace was.
>
> It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
> fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
> in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
> books for a few weeks.
>
> I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
> current state.
>
> --
> Dallas

If all he flew has been in the Air Force, he may have to get SEL added
to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine. He may be
limited to centerline thrust on multis also.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 5:51*pm, 150flivver > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 1:00 pm, Dallas > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.
>
> > Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
> > as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
> > and rent an aircraft himself. * I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
> > need a medical and a BFR.
>
> > He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
> > multiengine and instrument rating. *Impressive stuff, but the last time he
> > flew was in 1983. *While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
> > airspace was.
>
> > It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
> > fly in today's sky. *My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
> > in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
> > books for a few weeks.
>
> > I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
> > current state.
>
> > --
> > Dallas
>
> If all he flew has been in the Air Force, he may have to get SEL added
> to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine. *He may be
> limited to centerline thrust on multis also.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That would be interesting. To have a ME limited to centerline thrust
but no single engine rating. Almost seems like an oxymoron.

-Robert

[BT]

> If all he flew has been in the Air Force, he may have to get SEL added
> to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine. He may be
> limited to centerline thrust on multis also.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That would be interesting. To have a ME limited to centerline thrust
but no single engine rating. Almost seems like an oxymoron.

-Robert

It's true.. and it happens.. AF Trained pilots, T-37, T-38, F-15 are Multi
Engine, Centerline Thrust.
They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.

No SE.

You want to have real fun.. teach those jet jockeys how to fly gliders,
providing they had not gone through the glider course at the academy.

BT

[BT]

>
> I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
> current state.
>
> --

The "system" is between him and the CFI that signs his FR. Granted, anything
happen and the FSDO just might be knocking on the CFI's door.

The other part of the "system" is the Flight School / rental operations
insurance requirements. If he is ME only, then many may require "5hrs in
type" check out and many rentals require an instrument ticket to rent ME
aircraft.

If he is ME only and wants to fly SE, then he'll need instruction and have
to pass a check ride just like you did, with the full oral exam.
He could take the check ride at the Pvt level, and his certificate would
read. Commercial Pilot Airplane with ME, Instrument ratings. Private
Privileges only Airplane SE.

Oh.. not only will he need a Flight Review, but if he wants to fly on
instruments he will need an IPC. Instrument Proficiency Check signed off by
a CFII.

BT

[Dallas]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:16:47 -0800, BT wrote:

> They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
> be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
> about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.

BT, I was under the impression that a military pilot didn't need an FAA
certificate to fly in the military. Was this an incorrect assumption?


--
Dallas

[Dallas]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:51:08 -0800 (PST), 150flivver wrote:

> he may have to get SEL added
> to his ticket before he can go renting a single engine.

Yup, he's got his SEL from primary training, but you are 100% right, his
MEL is limited to centerline thrust.

The part I couldn't understand was how he got a commercial ticket, which BT
explains later on in this thread.

--
Dallas

[BT]

"Dallas" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:16:47 -0800, BT wrote:
>
>> They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able
>> to
>> be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
>> about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.
>
> BT, I was under the impression that a military pilot didn't need an FAA
> certificate to fly in the military. Was this an incorrect assumption?
>
>
> --
> Dallas

Dallas, you are correct, no FAA Certificate, but does have to have a valid
military check ride that is recorded on AF Form 8. The military issues the
military pilot his qualifications. No "certificate", just papers in a folder
maintained in "Flight Records".

The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO and
be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate. If he is flying aircraft with more
than one engine, he gets a ME rating, if it is "fighters", certain types are
considered centerline thrust. If he is flying a tanker or transport, he can
have the centerline thrust removed. Also, as part of the Form 8 papers are
annotations of instrument checkride, so he gets the Instrument rating.

That does not qualify him to fly, Airplane Single Engine, unless his
military Form 8 is for a single engine aircraft.

BT

[[email protected]]

Dallas > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:16:47 -0800, BT wrote:

> > They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
> > be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
> > about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.

> BT, I was under the impression that a military pilot didn't need an FAA
> certificate to fly in the military. Was this an incorrect assumption?

No.

The military has it's own procedures for qualifing pilots, boat captains,
radio/radar techs, etc. that don't involve the FAA, FCC or other agencies
civilians have to deal with.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 9:26*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> "Dallas" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:16:47 -0800, BT wrote:
>
> >> They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able
> >> to
> >> be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
> >> about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.
>
> > BT, I was under the impression that a military pilot didn't need an FAA
> > certificate to fly in the military. *Was this an incorrect assumption?
>
> > --
> > Dallas
>
> Dallas, you are correct, no FAA Certificate, but does have to have a valid
> military check ride that is recorded on AF Form 8. The military issues the
> military pilot his qualifications. No "certificate", just papers in a folder
> maintained in "Flight Records".
>
> The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO and
> be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate. If he is flying aircraft with more
> than one engine, he gets a ME rating, if it is "fighters", certain types are
> considered centerline thrust. If he is flying a tanker or transport, he can
> have the centerline thrust removed. Also, as part of the Form 8 papers are
> annotations of instrument checkride, so he gets the Instrument rating.
>
> That does not qualify him to fly, Airplane Single Engine, unless his
> military Form 8 is for a single engine aircraft.
>
> BT

Also, some military check pilots are also FAA examiners. Some of the
pilots out at Travis AFB say they got their ATP ME in the C-5 when
they took their military check ride.

-Robert

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

BT wrote:
>
>It's true.. and it happens.. AF Trained pilots, T-37, T-38, F-15 are Multi
>Engine, Centerline Thrust.
>They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
>be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
>about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.
>
>No SE.
>

That was the case in the past. The Tweet is being retired and new pilots
have been training on the T-6A Texan II, which is a turbine powered single.
Now, the AF guys will get both single and multi instruction, like their Navy
counterparts have always had (T-34C).

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200801/1

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 22, 9:45*pm, wrote:

> The military has it's own procedures for qualifing pilots, boat captains,
> radio/radar techs, etc. that don't involve the FAA, FCC or other agencies
> civilians have to deal with.

Yea, in CAP we have to meet both. We have to maintain our FAA
certificate to fly the AF owned aircraft and also maintain our CAP
qualifications (similar to the regular AF's). So you need to have a
Form 5 check every 12 months with a check pilot and need additional
check for things like instrument, night, and certain types of flying.

-robert, CFII and USAF Aux Check Pilot

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> On Jan 22, 9:45?pm, wrote:

> > The military has it's own procedures for qualifing pilots, boat captains,
> > radio/radar techs, etc. that don't involve the FAA, FCC or other agencies
> > civilians have to deal with.

> Yea, in CAP we have to meet both. We have to maintain our FAA
> certificate to fly the AF owned aircraft and also maintain our CAP
> qualifications (similar to the regular AF's). So you need to have a
> Form 5 check every 12 months with a check pilot and need additional
> check for things like instrument, night, and certain types of flying.

Well, yeah, since the CAP isn't military and the members aren't part of
the Armed Forces.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 9:45*am, wrote:
> Robert M. Gary > wrote:
>
> > On Jan 22, 9:45?pm, wrote:
> > > The military has it's own procedures for qualifing pilots, boat captains,
> > > radio/radar techs, etc. that don't involve the FAA, FCC or other agencies
> > > civilians have to deal with.
> > Yea, in CAP we have to meet both. We have to maintain our FAA
> > certificate to fly the AF owned aircraft and also maintain our CAP
> > qualifications (similar to the regular AF's). So you need to have a
> > Form 5 check every 12 months with a check pilot and need additional
> > check for things like instrument, night, and certain types of flying.
>
> Well, yeah, since the CAP isn't military and the members aren't part of
> the Armed Forces.

CAP is a military auxillary. All procedures and processes (including
AF checkrides) are dictated by the USAF. If you don't want to follow
USAF check out and currency procedures you cannot fly USAF owned
aircraft for CAP.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> On Jan 23, 9:45?am, wrote:
> > Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> >
> > > On Jan 22, 9:45?pm, wrote:
> > > > The military has it's own procedures for qualifing pilots, boat captains,
> > > > radio/radar techs, etc. that don't involve the FAA, FCC or other agencies
> > > > civilians have to deal with.
> > > Yea, in CAP we have to meet both. We have to maintain our FAA
> > > certificate to fly the AF owned aircraft and also maintain our CAP
> > > qualifications (similar to the regular AF's). So you need to have a
> > > Form 5 check every 12 months with a check pilot and need additional
> > > check for things like instrument, night, and certain types of flying.
> >
> > Well, yeah, since the CAP isn't military and the members aren't part of
> > the Armed Forces.

> CAP is a military auxillary. All procedures and processes (including
> AF checkrides) are dictated by the USAF. If you don't want to follow
> USAF check out and currency procedures you cannot fly USAF owned
> aircraft for CAP.

That wan't meant as a put down of the CAP, merely a statement of fact.

Since CAP members are civilians, they have to meet FAA requirements.

Since the USAF is paying the tab, the USAF imposes it's own additional
requirements.

What's the problem?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Dallas]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:26:35 -0800, BT wrote:

> The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO and
> be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate.

Nicely explained.

thx
--
Dallas

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 12:43*pm, Dallas > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:26:35 -0800, BT wrote:
> > The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO and
> > be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate.
>
> Nicely explained.

Partly. That explaination is only valid for military pilots that are
currently active. Your post mentions your friend is retired. I believe
he only has 24 months from his discharge to request an FAA certificate
on the basis of his military certifications. After that I believe he
has to start from square one.

-Robert

[BT]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 12:43 pm, Dallas > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:26:35 -0800, BT wrote:
> > The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO
> > and
> > be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate.
>
> Nicely explained.

Partly. That explaination is only valid for military pilots that are
currently active. Your post mentions your friend is retired. I believe
he only has 24 months from his discharge to request an FAA certificate
on the basis of his military certifications. After that I believe he
has to start from square one.

-Robert

Correct.. you can only do it as long as the Form 8 is valid, when I was on
active duty.. it was a 17 month check ride cycle. After that the Form 8
expires and the FSDO will not accept it.

BT

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 4:14*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in ...
> On Jan 23, 12:43 pm, Dallas > wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:26:35 -0800, BT wrote:
> > > The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO
> > > and
> > > be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate.
>
> > Nicely explained.
>
> Partly. That explaination is only valid for military pilots that are
> currently active. Your post mentions your friend is retired. I believe
> he only has 24 months from his discharge to request an FAA certificate
> on the basis of his military certifications. After that I believe he
> has to start from square one.
>
> -Robert
>
> Correct.. you can only do it as long as the Form 8 is valid, when I was on
> active duty.. it was a 17 month check ride cycle. After that the Form 8
> expires and the FSDO will not accept it.

I hope he still has time. That would really be sad for him to lose
that and have to start over again.

-Robert

[BT]

True.. and then the CAP grounds you for missing a safety meeting. WAIT...
WHAT SAFETY MEETING...
The one we had last week.... AND DID YOU TELL ME ABOUT IT??? aahh... No..
the email did not go announcing the meeting.. it was "word of mouth"... but
you are grounded anyway for missing the meeting.. until you make it up..

Ohh.. and another thing.. the online requirements to prepare for a Form5
ride are complete, but the check pilot does not take action. "He's too
busy".. so it expires... have to "re do"...

And people wonder why I left CAP.

BT
USAF RET

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 22, 9:45 pm, wrote:

> The military has it's own procedures for qualifing pilots, boat captains,
> radio/radar techs, etc. that don't involve the FAA, FCC or other agencies
> civilians have to deal with.

Yea, in CAP we have to meet both. We have to maintain our FAA
certificate to fly the AF owned aircraft and also maintain our CAP
qualifications (similar to the regular AF's). So you need to have a
Form 5 check every 12 months with a check pilot and need additional
check for things like instrument, night, and certain types of flying.

-robert, CFII and USAF Aux Check Pilot

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 4:18*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> True.. and then the CAP grounds you for missing a safety meeting. WAIT...
> WHAT SAFETY MEETING...
> The one we had last week.... AND DID YOU TELL ME ABOUT IT??? aahh... No..
> the email did not go announcing the meeting.. it was "word of mouth"... *but
> you are grounded anyway for missing the meeting.. until you make it up..
>
> Ohh.. and another thing.. the online requirements to prepare for a Form5
> ride are complete, but the check pilot does not take action. "He's too
> busy".. so it expires... have to "re do"...
>
> And people wonder why I left CAP.

All true. When you combine the paperwork requirements of the AF with
volunteers things often work at the speed of nothing. Things are
getting better in that most of the approvals are now done online and
they require less actual paperwork be sent around.
The biggest issue we have in the Pacific region is reimbersements. You
get up at 1AM to fly a mission and then put $300 worth of avgas on
your credit card but then have to wait 6 months for a check. At one
point we were told we would be allowed to use a CAP credit card, then
told we weren't, then told we were, etc. To date no cards have shown
up so when the truck pulls up the the "U.S. Airforce Auxillary" plane
you still pull out your personal credit card.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

On Jan 23, 7:18 pm, "BT" > wrote:


> And people wonder why I left CAP.
>
> BT
> USAF RET

I'm retired military also and get frustrated with CAP as well. But,
you have to keep in mind most of the people you deal with are
volunteers. CAP is what we do in spare time -- and spare time is what
busy people who can afford to fly have very little of.

In some ways it is no different than being an officer -- you have to
be your own admin, finance, logistics, maintenance, and operations
clerk on the side if you want to get things done.

Dan

[BT]

I think he said in the OP he was retired but had the FAA tickets.. and that
he had not flown in 15 years.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 4:14 pm, "BT" > wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
> ...
> On Jan 23, 12:43 pm, Dallas > wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:26:35 -0800, BT wrote:
> > > The military pilot can take that current AF Form 8 to the nearest FSDO
> > > and
> > > be issued a Civilian Pilot Certificate.
>
> > Nicely explained.
>
> Partly. That explaination is only valid for military pilots that are
> currently active. Your post mentions your friend is retired. I believe
> he only has 24 months from his discharge to request an FAA certificate
> on the basis of his military certifications. After that I believe he
> has to start from square one.
>
> -Robert
>
> Correct.. you can only do it as long as the Form 8 is valid, when I was on
> active duty.. it was a 17 month check ride cycle. After that the Form 8
> expires and the FSDO will not accept it.

I hope he still has time. That would really be sad for him to lose
that and have to start over again.

-Robert

[Dallas]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:55:38 -0800, BT wrote:

> I think he said in the OP he was retired but had the FAA tickets.. and that
> he had not flown in 15 years.

Bingo.

He was clearly smart enough to request FAA certificates when he had the
chance.

--
Dallas

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 6:55*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> I think he said in the OP he was retired but had the FAA tickets.. and that
> he had not flown in 15 years.

Ah, I missed that. So this situation does not apply to the OP's
friend, he just needs a BFR and perhaps an IPC.

-Robert

[BT]

They may or may not get the ASEL rating depending on their timing.
Not only do you have to have a valid Form 8, you also have to have a
graduation certificate from the military training school to show completion
of an "approved course of instruction". The "solo students" would not have
graduated yet. I do not know if the solo students get "solo form 8s" in
their training folders or simply endorsements.

Sorry, we've left that tid bit out of the discussion.

This is why the glider instructors at the USAFA do not get FAA Glider
certificicates. They may have soloed in gliders, and actually instructed in
gliders, but they have not completed an approved "course of instruction" and
earn glider wings.

We have had a few of the USAFA graduates that come to us to complete their
training and take the FAA Check ride for their civil glider rating.

BT

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote in message
news:7ea593d5aa195@uwe...
> BT wrote:
>>
>>It's true.. and it happens.. AF Trained pilots, T-37, T-38, F-15 are Multi
>>Engine, Centerline Thrust.
>>They take a written, and based on military check ride (Form 8) are able to
>>be issued a Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine and never know anything
>>about Props or P-factor or engines other than jets.
>>
>>No SE.
>>
>
> That was the case in the past. The Tweet is being retired and new pilots
> have been training on the T-6A Texan II, which is a turbine powered
> single.
> Now, the AF guys will get both single and multi instruction, like their
> Navy
> counterparts have always had (T-34C).
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>
> --
> Message posted via AviationKB.com
> http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200801/1
>

[Blueskies]

"Dallas" > wrote in message ...
>
> Being a new pilot I don't know much about the BFR process.
>
> Over Xmas I was chatting with my pilot Brother-in-law about my new status
> as a pilot when he stated that he thought he could just go to the local FBO
> and rent an aircraft himself. I said yes and reminded him that he'd also
> need a medical and a BFR.
>
> He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
> multiengine and instrument rating. Impressive stuff, but the last time he
> flew was in 1983. While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
> airspace was.
>
> It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready to
> fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
> in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
> books for a few weeks.
>
> I'd hate to think the system would let him back up in the sky in his
> current state.
>
> --
> Dallas

Some good stuff here:
http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_catalog.aspx

[gatt[_2_]]

"Dallas" > wrote in message

> He's a retired Air Force F-15 pilot with an FAA commercial ticket,
> multiengine and instrument rating. Impressive stuff, but the last time he
> flew was in 1983. While looking over a chart he had no idea what Bravo
> airspace was.

*wince*

> It's pretty clear that his knowledge base is obsolete and he's not ready
> to
> fly in today's sky. My question is, could he pass through the BFR process
> in a couple of hours or would the instructor make him go back and hit the
> books for a few weeks.

I bet that if he's that seasoned of a pilot he'll correct his own course as
soon as he realizes the situation.

-c

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> And people wonder why I left CAP.

Yep, Joe and I left it, too -- mostly for reasons described here.

In fact, our whole squadron dissolved because of this kind of stuff. You
just can't get anything *done* in CAP without filling out tons of pointless
paperwork -- and that applies to everything, from moving the squadron's van
(from one parking spot to another), all the way up to getting an aircraft.
Eventually you just throw up your hands and move on.

It takes a very, very patient pilot, with virtually unlimited amounts of
time, to thrive in CAP.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 26, 5:27*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> It takes a very, very patient pilot, with virtually unlimited amounts of
> time, to thrive in CAP.

Or a really great squadron. We're fortunate in ours to have one that
is very well run with lots of people working so that no one individual
gets stuck trying to work though all the things you mentioned. I
believe we have two people who just manage the paperwork associated
with equipment. We have a refrigerator that we no longer want but
because its not dead we can't toss it out or donate it. We had 3 guys
volunteer to go down on a Monday afternoon and return it to the
Airforce. Most people in the squadron hold one main job and at least
one back up job. Luckily I've not been asked to do anything other than
serve as check pilot. I get to wear a cool "Flight Examiner" patch
and just fly. I'm not sure if this is typical or not but only about
10% of our adult members are pilots, so that may help fill the non-
piloting duties.

-Robert