PLANE DOES 360 AT 20000 FT!!!!

[A&E SUPERSTAR]

Without warning or reports of turbulence, an Air Canada flight en route to
Toronto dipped and rotated violently, on early Thursday morning, causing
injuries and confusion among passengers and the crew. Strangely enough,
flight experts are still unsure about what caused the accident.

"What happened aboard Air Canada flight 190," said a reporter on CBC's The
National, "can best be described as chaos."

According to passenger accounts, the Airbus aircraft bucked and rolled side
to side abruptly, hurling dishes and people through the air. "It was
weird," one passenger told the CBC. "The plane actually turned upside down
without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
[was] flying all over the plane."

After steadying the plane, the pilots were able to make an emergency
landing in Calgary under their own power. Ten of the 88 people aboard were
injured, even though the episode was over in 15 seconds. All have since
been released from the hospital.

So what caused the jolt? Immediately following the event, the pilot
announced that the plane's autopilot program had been knocked out. But
others aren't convinced.

"I don't think it could have been anything other than turbulence," a
Canadian corporate pilot told the CBC. "It's highly unlikely that it could
have been a mechanical problem."

Air Canada says that the Transportation Safety Board Read the whole story
is investigating, but turbulence seems plausible. In the upper atmosphere,
where many commercial jet liners like Flight 190 cruise, conditions exist
where pilots cannot predict wind patterns that can lead to turbulence.

The following video is from CBC's The National, broadcast on January 10,
2007

--
Rob Cypher
robcypher.livejournal.com
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED - RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

[Steve Foley]

I suspect the editor (or whoever wrote the headline) has no clue what a 360
is.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 5:57*am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
> I suspect the editor (or whoever wrote the headline) has no clue what a 360
> is.

If you check out this guy's profile he just goes around posting stuff
he finds on the internet and then puts the subject in as all caps.
Notice he cross posted this to alt.guitar and alt.drugs so clearly its
not really aviation significant. As a pilot I agree, the author of the
report knows next to nothing about aviation. A 360 is common and
wouldn't upset anyone.

-Robert

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

As I was flying into PHX last week, the tower asked for a right 360 for
spacing (at only 2,100 ft.!!). Miraculously, all of the injuries were minor :
-)

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:04:02 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
> wrote in
>:

>Notice he cross posted this to alt.guitar and alt.drugs so clearly its
>not really aviation significant.

Actually, the original Usenet article is an sophomoric attempt to lure
participants from unrelated newsgroups into a flame fest, IMNSHO.

If you examine the article header you will note that it appears to
have been posted through a Russian gateway (http://www.tstu.ru/) from
a Verizon subscriber located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Path:

bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net!wnmaster11!wns14feed!wor ldnet.att.net!204.71.34.3!newsfeed.cwix.com!image. surnet.ru!WWW1.relcom.ru!vega.tstu.ru!not-for-mail
From: "A&E SUPERSTAR" >
Newsgroups:

alt.guitar,alt.drugs.hard,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,rec.aviation.piloting,alt.drugs.psychede lics
Subject: PLANE DOES 360 AT 20000 FT!!!!
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:30:07 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: >
NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-71-182-162-32.pitbpa.east.verizon.net
X-Trace: news.tambov.ru 1201077007 46431 71.182.162.32 (23 Jan
2008 08:30:07 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25

[Morgans[_2_]]

"JGalban > wrote

> As I was flying into PHX last week, the tower asked for a right 360 for
> spacing (at only 2,100 ft.!!). Miraculously, all of the injuries were
> minor :

You mean you didn't have crap flying everywhere, and coffee and people on
the ceiling, and stuff?

You obviously must have done something wrong, if you didn't get the results
that the other flight did! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Big John[_2_]]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:30:07 +0000 (UTC), "A&E SUPERSTAR" >
wrote:

> Without warning or reports of turbulence, an Air Canada flight en route to
>Toronto dipped and rotated violently, on early Thursday morning, causing
>injuries and confusion among passengers and the crew. Strangely enough,
>flight experts are still unsure about what caused the accident.
>
>"What happened aboard Air Canada flight 190," said a reporter on CBC's The
>National, "can best be described as chaos."
>
>According to passenger accounts, the Airbus aircraft bucked and rolled side
>to side abruptly, hurling dishes and people through the air. "It was
>weird," one passenger told the CBC. "The plane actually turned upside down
>without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
>[was] flying all over the plane."
>
>After steadying the plane, the pilots were able to make an emergency
>landing in Calgary under their own power. Ten of the 88 people aboard were
>injured, even though the episode was over in 15 seconds. All have since
>been released from the hospital.
>
>So what caused the jolt? Immediately following the event, the pilot
>announced that the plane's autopilot program had been knocked out. But
>others aren't convinced.
>
>"I don't think it could have been anything other than turbulence," a
>Canadian corporate pilot told the CBC. "It's highly unlikely that it could
>have been a mechanical problem."
>
>Air Canada says that the Transportation Safety Board Read the whole story
>is investigating, but turbulence seems plausible. In the upper atmosphere,
>where many commercial jet liners like Flight 190 cruise, conditions exist
>where pilots cannot predict wind patterns that can lead to turbulence.
>
>The following video is from CBC's The National, broadcast on January 10,
>2007
************************************************** ********************************

Here is NTSB report on this incident.

On January 10, 2008, an Air Canada Airbus A319, registration C-GBHZ,
flight number 190, was enroute to Toronto from Victoria, when at 0835
mountain standard time, while climbing from FL360 to FL370, and at
about 38 nautical miles south of Penticton, BC, Canada, the aircraft
experienced a sudden upset when it rolled uncommanded 36 degrees right
and then 57 degrees left and pitched nose-down. An emergency was
declared and the flight diverted to Calgary where an uneventful
landing was completed. There were 2 minor injuries to the crew and 8
minor injuries to the passengers. There were a total of 5 crew members
and 83 passengers on board. The Transportation Safety Board (TSB)
Canada is investigating, with the NTSB and BEA providing accredited
representatives. For more information on this incident investigation,
contact TSB Canada by telephone (819) 994-3741or online at
http://www.tsb.gc.ca.

Big John

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 4:05*pm, Big John > wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:30:07 +0000 (UTC), "A&E SUPERSTAR" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Without warning or reports of turbulence, an Air Canada flight en route to
> >Toronto dipped and rotated violently, on early Thursday morning, causing
> >injuries and confusion among passengers and the crew. Strangely enough,
> >flight experts are still unsure about what caused the accident.
>
> >"What happened aboard Air Canada flight 190," said a reporter on CBC's The
> >National, "can best be described as chaos."
>
> >According to passenger accounts, the Airbus aircraft bucked and rolled side
> >to side abruptly, hurling dishes and people through the air. "It was
> >weird," one passenger told the CBC. "The plane actually turned upside down
> >without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
> >[was] flying all over the plane."
>
> >After steadying the plane, the pilots were able to make an emergency
> >landing in Calgary under their own power. Ten of the 88 people aboard were
> >injured, even though the episode was over in 15 seconds. All have since
> >been released from the hospital.
>
> >So what caused the jolt? Immediately following the event, the pilot
> >announced that the plane's autopilot program had been knocked out. But
> >others aren't convinced.
>
> >"I don't think it could have been anything other than turbulence," a
> >Canadian corporate pilot told the CBC. "It's highly unlikely that it could
> >have been a mechanical problem."
>
> >Air Canada says that the Transportation Safety Board Read the whole story
> >is investigating, but turbulence seems plausible. In the upper atmosphere,
> >where many commercial jet liners like Flight 190 cruise, conditions exist
> >where pilots cannot predict wind patterns that can lead to turbulence.
>
> >The following video is from CBC's The National, broadcast on January 10,
> >2007
>
> ************************************************** *********************************
>
> Here is NTSB report on this incident.


hehehehe!! If you didn't know better it would be hard to tell that
that was the same report the OP referred to!! Not 20,000 feet, not
360, etc

-Robert

[[email protected]]

On Jan 23, 6:09*pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Jan 23, 4:05*pm, Big John > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:30:07 +0000 (UTC), "A&E SUPERSTAR" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > Without warning or reports of turbulence, an Air Canada flight en route to
> > >Toronto dipped and rotated violently, on early Thursday morning, causing
> > >injuries and confusion among passengers and the crew. Strangely enough,
> > >flight experts are still unsure about what caused the accident.
>
> > >"What happened aboard Air Canada flight 190," said a reporter on CBC's The
> > >National, "can best be described as chaos."
>
> > >According to passenger accounts, the Airbus aircraft bucked and rolled side
> > >to side abruptly, hurling dishes and people through the air. "It was
> > >weird," one passenger told the CBC. "The plane actually turned upside down
> > >without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
> > >[was] flying all over the plane."
>
> > >After steadying the plane, the pilots were able to make an emergency
> > >landing in Calgary under their own power. Ten of the 88 people aboard were
> > >injured, even though the episode was over in 15 seconds. All have since
> > >been released from the hospital.
>
> > >So what caused the jolt? Immediately following the event, the pilot
> > >announced that the plane's autopilot program had been knocked out. But
> > >others aren't convinced.
>
> > >"I don't think it could have been anything other than turbulence," a
> > >Canadian corporate pilot told the CBC. "It's highly unlikely that it could
> > >have been a mechanical problem."
>
> > >Air Canada says that the Transportation Safety Board Read the whole story
> > >is investigating, but turbulence seems plausible. In the upper atmosphere,
> > >where many commercial jet liners like Flight 190 cruise, conditions exist
> > >where pilots cannot predict wind patterns that can lead to turbulence.
>
> > >The following video is from CBC's The National, broadcast on January 10,
> > >2007
>
> > ************************************************** **********************************
>
> > Here is NTSB report on this incident.
>
> hehehehe!! If you didn't know better it would be hard to tell that
> that was the same report the OP referred to!! Not 20,000 feet, not
> 360, etc
>
> -Robert- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It really bothers me when A319s and B777s have things happen to them
this radical that are "unexplained".

They'll get to the bottom of the 777. But if computers had anything to
do with the 319 they may never find out ... I know, I know, the
testing for computer controlling flight is the best possible and all
pathways are supposed to be proved.

All we need is a stray cosmic ray setting a register funny, and < POOF
> unexpected complexity ensues.

Yes, this is just pure speculation on my part. I just don't trust
computer systems to be 100%. Usually that's okay. Not in an airliner
though.

[george]

On Jan 24, 1:05 pm, Big John > wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:30:07 +0000 (UTC), "A&E SUPERSTAR" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Without warning or reports of turbulence, an Air Canada flight en route to
> >Toronto dipped and rotated violently, on early Thursday morning, causing
> >injuries and confusion among passengers and the crew. Strangely enough,
> >flight experts are still unsure about what caused the accident.
>
> >"What happened aboard Air Canada flight 190," said a reporter on CBC's The
> >National, "can best be described as chaos."
>
> >According to passenger accounts, the Airbus aircraft bucked and rolled side
> >to side abruptly, hurling dishes and people through the air. "It was
> >weird," one passenger told the CBC. "The plane actually turned upside down
> >without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
> >[was] flying all over the plane."
>
> >After steadying the plane, the pilots were able to make an emergency
> >landing in Calgary under their own power. Ten of the 88 people aboard were
> >injured, even though the episode was over in 15 seconds. All have since
> >been released from the hospital.
>
> >So what caused the jolt? Immediately following the event, the pilot
> >announced that the plane's autopilot program had been knocked out. But
> >others aren't convinced.
>
> >"I don't think it could have been anything other than turbulence," a
> >Canadian corporate pilot told the CBC. "It's highly unlikely that it could
> >have been a mechanical problem."
>
> >Air Canada says that the Transportation Safety Board Read the whole story
> >is investigating, but turbulence seems plausible. In the upper atmosphere,
> >where many commercial jet liners like Flight 190 cruise, conditions exist
> >where pilots cannot predict wind patterns that can lead to turbulence.
>
> >The following video is from CBC's The National, broadcast on January 10,
> >2007
>
> ************************************************** ********************************
>
> Here is NTSB report on this incident.
>
> On January 10, 2008, an Air Canada Airbus A319, registration C-GBHZ,
> flight number 190, was enroute to Toronto from Victoria, when at 0835
> mountain standard time, while climbing from FL360 to FL370, and at
> about 38 nautical miles south of Penticton, BC, Canada, the aircraft
> experienced a sudden upset when it rolled uncommanded 36 degrees right
> and then 57 degrees left and pitched nose-down. An emergency was
> declared and the flight diverted to Calgary where an uneventful
> landing was completed. There were 2 minor injuries to the crew and 8
> minor injuries to the passengers. There were a total of 5 crew members
> and 83 passengers on board. The Transportation Safety Board (TSB)
> Canada is investigating, with the NTSB and BEA providing accredited
> representatives. For more information on this incident investigation,
> contact TSB Canada by telephone (819) 994-3741or online athttp://www.tsb.gc.ca.
>

CAT ?

[Phil J]

On Jan 23, 9:30*pm, george > wrote:
>
> CAT ?


Clear-air turbulence sounds like the most likely explanation, assuming
the computer didn't go berserk.


Phil

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:25:26 -0800 (PST), Phil J
> wrote in
>:

>On Jan 23, 9:30*pm, george > wrote:
>>
>> CAT ?
>
>
>Clear-air turbulence sounds like the most likely explanation, assuming
>the computer didn't go berserk.
>


The official wording of the incident:

http://www.tsb.gc.ca
On January 10, 2008, an Air Canada Airbus A319, registration
C-GBHZ, flight number 190, was enroute to Toronto from Victoria,
when at 0835 mountain standard time, while climbing from FL360 to
FL370, and at about 38 nautical miles south of Penticton, BC,
Canada, the aircraft experienced a sudden upset when it rolled
uncommanded 36 degrees right and then 57 degrees left and pitched
nose-down.


Of course, CAT describes atmospheric turbulence of unknown origins, so
it's rather general.


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/PCG/C.HTM
CLEAR AIR TURBULENCE (CAT)- Turbulence encountered in air where no
clouds are present. This term is commonly applied to high-level
turbulence associated with wind shear. CAT is often encountered in
the vicinity of the jet stream.

So where was the jet stream located on January 10, 2008 at 0135Z?

0000Z:

http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/jetstream/jetstream_pac/big/0801/08011000_jetstream_pac_anal.gif

0600 Z:

http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/jetstream/jetstream_pac/big/0801/08011006_jetstream_pac_anal.gif

All:
http://virga.sfsu.edu/pub/jetstream/jetstream_pac/big/0801/

Animation: http://squall.sfsu.edu/scripts/jet_pac_big_archloop.html



And where is Penticton, BC located?


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Penticton+canada&ie=UTF8&ll=49.496675,-119.575195&spn=20.014299,34.145508&z=5&iwloc=addr&om=0


It looks like the jet stream was meandering through the area at the
time, and its track shows an anomalous finger jutting to the north.
Given this information, it's hard to rule it out.


Even when contemplating crossing it from different angles it's
difficult to imagine the uncommanded rolls to have been induced by
wing-tip vortices from the wake of a heavy.

[alexy]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

>On Jan 23, 5:57*am, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
>> I suspect the editor (or whoever wrote the headline) has no clue what a 360
>> is.
>
>If you check out this guy's profile he just goes around posting stuff
>he finds on the internet and then puts the subject in as all caps.
>Notice he cross posted this to alt.guitar and alt.drugs so clearly its
>not really aviation significant. As a pilot I agree, the author of the
>report knows next to nothing about aviation. A 360 is common and
>wouldn't upset anyone.

Well, I thought this quote was choice:

>"The plane actually turned upside down
>without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
>[was] flying all over the plane."

People on the roof, and they couldn't feel it? Even assuming he meant
"ceiling", I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't be able to
feel that.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 9:17*am, alexy > wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> People on the roof, and they couldn't feel it? Even assuming he meant
> "ceiling", I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't be able to
> feel that.

"Hey, hun, I'm not sure but are we on the ceiling or do I need another
drink?"

-Robert

[[email protected]]

>
> Even when contemplating crossing it from different angles it's
> difficult to imagine the uncommanded rolls to have been induced by
> wing-tip vortices from the wake of a heavy.

good analysis!

[Morgans[_2_]]

"alexy" > wrote

> Well, I thought this quote was choice:
>
>>"The plane actually turned upside down
>>without actually feeling it. There were people on the roof. Coffe and ****
>>[was] flying all over the plane."

It sounds like some of Ken's ****, doesn't it?
--
Jim in NC

[Phil J]

On Jan 24, 12:20*pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Jan 24, 9:17*am, alexy > wrote:
>
> > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> > People on the roof, and they couldn't feel it? Even assuming he meant
> > "ceiling", I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't be able to
> > feel that.
>
> "Hey, hun, I'm not sure but are we on the ceiling or do I need another
> drink?"
>
> -Robert


Wow, there's lots more leg room up here. This must be what first
class is like!

Phil