CAP T182T Crash on Nov. 8

[gwengler]

For whatever it's worth, I located the crash site from the coordinates
given in the NTSB preliminary. The North Town One Departure from KVGT
from where the airplane left calls for an overflight of the LAS VOR.
The crash site is only half a mile from the direct course from LAS to
L00, the airplane's destination. I know the did not file an IFR
flight plan, and I have no idea about the actual route of flight;
however, I found this an interesting coincidence.
Gerd

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 7:02*am, gwengler > wrote:
> For whatever it's worth, I located the crash site from the coordinates
> given in the NTSB preliminary. *The North Town One Departure from KVGT
> from where the airplane left calls for an overflight of the LAS VOR.
> The crash site is only half a mile from the direct course from LAS to
> L00, the airplane's destination. *I know the did not file an IFR
> flight plan, and I have no idea about the actual route of flight;
> however, I found this an interesting coincidence.
> Gerd

Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
guy.

-Robert

[BT]

Agreed... Robert.. the CAP mishap aircraft was on a VFR flight plan that had
been activated. I do not believe he was in contact with ATC at the time and
it is not listed in the preliminary report.

There was confusion in the local papers with the other aircraft mishap in
the same area on the same day. You will note that the accident time of the
CAP aircraft and the loss of communication with ATC on the Beech A36 are
within 7 minutes.. and both aircraft would have been within visual sighting
of each other.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 23, 7:02 am, gwengler > wrote:
> For whatever it's worth, I located the crash site from the coordinates
> given in the NTSB preliminary. The North Town One Departure from KVGT
> from where the airplane left calls for an overflight of the LAS VOR.
> The crash site is only half a mile from the direct course from LAS to
> L00, the airplane's destination. I know the did not file an IFR
> flight plan, and I have no idea about the actual route of flight;
> however, I found this an interesting coincidence.
> Gerd

Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
guy.

-Robert

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
>pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
>guy.

Still they take off on a night VFR flight into mountainous terrain.

Ron Lee

[BT]

"Ron Lee" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
>>pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
>>guy.
>
> Still they take off on a night VFR flight into mountainous terrain.
>
> Ron Lee

Night VFR on the LAS to LAX route is done all the time. There may have been
other issues on the aircraft that we will never know about. Two pilots, very
experienced with mountain flying, with a Garmin 1000 Nav system that shows
terrain.

BT

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 23, 6:14*pm, (Ron Lee) wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
> >Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
> >pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
> >guy.
>
> Still they take off on a night VFR flight into mountainous terrain. *

Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
take a moment to pause.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
> take a moment to pause.
>
> -Robert

The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
driven turn coordinator.

If the screen goes dark (which it does with apparent regularity) at
night or in IMC, you're in a world of hurt, experienced or not.

Dan

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

>> >Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
>> >pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
>> >guy.
>>
>> Still they take off on a night VFR flight into mountainous terrain. =A0
>
>Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
>than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
>aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
>take a moment to pause.
>
>-Robert
>
I have no need to pause. I don't fly in the mountains at night.
Experience means little when poor judgment takes over. Remember the
famous guy who died flying into a thunderstorm not long ago? What
good did his "experience" do?

The vast majority of aircraft accidents/fatalities are due to poor
judgment/pilot error. Read the Nall report. One would have odds in
his favor assuming that it is the causal factor in this accident as
well.

People would do a far greater service to pilots by pointing out
stupidity, encouraging the development of better piloting decision
making than saying "If someone as awesome as him died, what can I
possibly do?"

Ron Lee

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

> If the screen goes dark (which it does with apparent regularity)

Really? On what do you base that assertion?

I'm in regular contact with a lot of G1000 users and I haven't heard of its
happening once.

There was a recall on AHRS77 units manufactured on or after May 1, 2007; is
that what you are referring to?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 11:28 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > If the screen goes dark (which it does with apparent regularity)
>
> Really? On what do you base that assertion?
>
> I'm in regular contact with a lot of G1000 users and I haven't heard of its
> happening once.
>
> There was a recall on AHRS77 units manufactured on or after May 1, 2007; is
> that what you are referring to?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

My experience is limited to one G1000-equipped C182, but the (albeit
anecdotal) evidence is that airplane has gone dark on several
occasions.

My only (minor) complaint about the G100 C182 system is that it lacks
an electric turn coordinator, which is the cheapest bit of redundancy
one can ask for.

Dan

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 7:54*am, " > wrote:
> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
> > than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
> > aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
> > take a moment to pause.
>
> > -Robert
>
> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
> driven turn coordinator.
>
> If the screen goes dark (which it does with apparent regularity) at
> night or in IMC, you're in a world of hurt, experienced or not.

I've never had the screen go dark or known anyone who had. I did read
a report of a guy who set the brightness down really low (manually,
not auto brightness) during a night flight, and then on a subsequent
day flight he took it out of auto mode and he thought both screens had
failed. In truth they were just dim.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 8:26*am, (Ron Lee) wrote:
> >> >Ed Lewis was one of the most experienced pilots I know. He was a test
> >> >pilot for NASA, a former combat fighter pilot, an RV owner and a good
> >> >guy.
>
> >> Still they take off on a night VFR flight into mountainous terrain. =A0
>
> >Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
> >than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
> >aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
> >take a moment to pause.
>
> >-Robert
>
> I have no need to pause. *I don't fly in the mountains at night.
> Experience means little when poor judgment takes over. *Remember the
> famous guy who died flying into a thunderstorm not long ago? *What
> good did his "experience" do? *
>
> The vast majority of aircraft accidents/fatalities are due to poor
> judgment/pilot error. *Read the Nall report. * One would have odds in
> his favor assuming that it is the causal factor in this accident as
> well.
>
> People would do a far greater service to pilots by pointing out
> stupidity, encouraging the development of better piloting decision
> making than saying "If someone as awesome as him died, what can I
> possibly do?"

Its easy to feel invulnerable as a pilot by dismissing all aviation
accidents as the result of a stupid action that you would not take.
Its not until you discover pilots with greater judgement than yourself
have died that you rethink that.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 8:43*am, " > wrote:
> On Jan 24, 11:28 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:

> My only (minor) complaint about the G100 C182 system is that it lacks
> an electric turn coordinator, which is the cheapest bit of redundancy
> one can ask for.

You don't like the vac attitude indicator?

-Robert

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

wrote:

>
> If the screen goes dark (which it does with apparent regularity) at
> night or in IMC, you're in a world of hurt, experienced or not.
>
> Dan
>
>

I have heard of exactly one case where the screen has gone dark on a
G1000 equipped aircraft and that NW_Pilot on a shuttle flight and even
in that case the plane had been rigged with non-standard equipment that
may or may not have screwed with the G1000.

DO you have some cites for the "with apparent regularity" comment?

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Jan 24, 1:24 pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>> You don't like the vac attitude indicator?
>>
>> -Robert
>
> I do -- but would feel better with an electric TC right there next to
> it.
>
> Dan
>

Well if it is a electrical system failure (one of the most likely
reasons for the G1000 to fail) that electric TC is going to die along
with it. You might notice that the 3 backups are all none electric and
in no way connected to the G1000.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 3:42 pm, Gig 601XL Builder >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 1:24 pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> >> You don't like the vac attitude indicator?
>
> >> -Robert
>
> > I do -- but would feel better with an electric TC right there next to
> > it.
>
> > Dan
>
> Well if it is a electrical system failure (one of the most likely
> reasons for the G1000 to fail) that electric TC is going to die along
> with it. You might notice that the 3 backups are all none electric and
> in no way connected to the G1000.

No, the most likely reason for a G1000 dark screen is a software
problem.

Dan

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

" > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
:

> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>
>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
>> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
>> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
>> take a moment to pause.
>>
>> -Robert
>
> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
> driven turn coordinator.


Whats the backup consist of?


Bertie

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Jan 24, 3:42 pm, Gig 601XL Builder >
> wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 1:24 pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>>> You don't like the vac attitude indicator?
>>>> -Robert
>>> I do -- but would feel better with an electric TC right there next to
>>> it.
>>> Dan
>> Well if it is a electrical system failure (one of the most likely
>> reasons for the G1000 to fail) that electric TC is going to die along
>> with it. You might notice that the 3 backups are all none electric and
>> in no way connected to the G1000.
>
> No, the most likely reason for a G1000 dark screen is a software
> problem.
>
> Dan

cite?

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> " > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
> :
>
>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
>>> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
>>> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
>>> take a moment to pause.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
>> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
>> driven turn coordinator.
>
>
> Whats the backup consist of?
>
>
> Bertie


Artificial Horizon, AS, Alt.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 4:53 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> " > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
> :
>
> > On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
> >> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
> >> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
> >> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
> >> take a moment to pause.
>
> >> -Robert
>
> > The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
> > fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
> > driven turn coordinator.
>
> Whats the backup consist of?
>
> Bertie

AI, ASI, DG offset down and to the right.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 5:04 pm, Gig 601XL Builder >
wrote:
> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> > " > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
> > :
>
> >> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> >>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
> >>> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
> >>> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
> >>> take a moment to pause.
>
> >>> -Robert
> >> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
> >> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
> >> driven turn coordinator.
>
> > Whats the backup consist of?
>
> > Bertie
>
> Artificial Horizon, AS, Alt.

That's right...ignore my last.

Dan

[Peter Clark]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:53:22 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

" > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
:
>
>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
>>> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
>>> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
>>> take a moment to pause.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>>
>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
>> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
>> driven turn coordinator.
>
>
>Whats the backup consist of?

ASI, altimeter, and vaccum driven attitude indicator (single vaccum
pump unlike the Nav II versions which have dual pumps).

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

> My experience is limited to one G1000-equipped C182, but the (albeit
> anecdotal) evidence is that airplane has gone dark on several
> occasions.

I'd call that a mighty small sample on which to base such a broad judgement,
wouldn't you?

What caused it to go dark on several occasions?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

>> Whats the backup consist of?
>>


> AI, ASI, DG offset down and to the right.

'Zat so?

How much time have you got with a G1000?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Gig 601XL Builder > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> " > wrote in
>> news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
>> :
>>
>>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and
>>>> judegement than you or I, that are flying one of the most
>>>> technically advanced GA aircraft on the market can get into
>>>> trouble, the rest of us should take a moment to pause.
>>>>
>>>> -Robert
>>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a
>>> big fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an
>>> electrically- driven turn coordinator.
>>
>>
>> Whats the backup consist of?
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
>
> Artificial Horizon, AS, Alt.
>

Plenty ,unless they're the size of pennies or something.

Bertie

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

> No, the most likely reason for a G1000 dark screen is a software
> problem.

Says who?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 4:46*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> >> " > wrote in
> >> news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
> >> :
>
> >>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> >>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and
> >>>> judegement than you or I, that are flying one of the most
> >>>> technically advanced GA aircraft on the market can get into
> >>>> trouble, the rest of us should take a moment to pause.
>
> >>>> -Robert
> >>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a
> >>> big fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an
> >>> electrically- driven turn coordinator.
>
> >> Whats the backup consist of?
>
> >> Bertie
>
> > Artificial Horizon, AS, Alt.
>
> Plenty ,unless they're the size of pennies or something.

No, they're full sized. I hadn't heard pilots complain about the
instruments before although some complain that putting them above the
throttles was not optimal.

-Robert

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
:

> On Jan 24, 4:46*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Gig 601XL Builder > wrote
>> innews:13pi2sn8jq4fpb1
> @news.supernews.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> >> " > wrote in
>> >> news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
>> >> :
>>
>> >>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>> >>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and
>> >>>> judegement than you or I, that are flying one of the most
>> >>>> technically advanced GA aircraft on the market can get into
>> >>>> trouble, the rest of us should take a moment to pause.
>>
>> >>>> -Robert
>> >>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a
>> >>> big fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an
>> >>> electrically- driven turn coordinator.
>>
>> >> Whats the backup consist of?
>>
>> >> Bertie
>>
>> > Artificial Horizon, AS, Alt.
>>
>> Plenty ,unless they're the size of pennies or something.
>
> No, they're full sized. I hadn't heard pilots complain about the
> instruments before although some complain that putting them above the
> throttles was not optimal.

you should see aht we have for standby!

The newer generation of 737's and what not have one compined stby thing
with tiny little gauges. I don't think I'd like to be stuck with them in
a dark cockpit.


Bertie

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

>Its easy to feel invulnerable as a pilot by dismissing all aviation
>accidents as the result of a stupid action that you would not take.
>Its not until you discover pilots with greater judgement than yourself
>have died that you rethink that.
>
>-Robert
>

Invulnerable? Where does that apply to me? I know that my abilities
and training are not as good as many so I make up for that with a
conservative approach to flying.

I don't fly in the mountains at night.

I don't fly near thunderstorms.

I don't fly in icing conditions.

I avoid the mountains when the winds are too high for me.

I don't risk running out of fuel.

I suspect that many of those you cite with supposedly greater
judgement who died are in fact people with more hours and training but
seriousdy screwed up judgement that killed them.

Ron Lee

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 7:23 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > My experience is limited to one G1000-equipped C182, but the (albeit
> > anecdotal) evidence is that airplane has gone dark on several
> > occasions.
>
> I'd call that a mighty small sample on which to base such a broad judgement,
> wouldn't you?
>
> What caused it to go dark on several occasions?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

Relax, G1000 Boy.

From the beginning I said the evidence was anecdotal. I also said *I*
wasn't comfortable with no TC.

Go enjoy your G1000. I'm plenty happy with a 6 pack and a 430 WAAS.

Dan

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 7:51 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > No, the most likely reason for a G1000 dark screen is a software
> > problem.
>
> Says who?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

You're a systems and software engineer, I presume?

If so, I want to buy anything you produce, as it clearly must be
flawless.

Dan

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 7:23 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > My experience is limited to one G1000-equipped C182, but the (albeit
> > anecdotal) evidence is that airplane has gone dark on several
> > occasions.
>
> I'd call that a mighty small sample on which to base such a broad judgement,
> wouldn't you?
>
> What caused it to go dark on several occasions?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

And if you read carefully, you would have seen that I said it was
anecdotal evidence. However, the sources are multiple and all have
flown that airplane as well and had the system tank.

Dan

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 7:26 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> Whats the backup consist of?
>
> > AI, ASI, DG offset down and to the right.
>
> 'Zat so?
>
> How much time have you got with a G1000?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

Enough to know a fully redundant backup would be a lifesaver in IMC.

Dan

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 7:51 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > No, the most likely reason for a G1000 dark screen is a software
> > problem.
>
> Says who?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

No one. Go back to your flawless software dreamworld.

The rest of us will continue to insist on redundancy.

Dan

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

:
>> > No, the most likely reason for a G1000 dark screen is a software
>> > problem.
>>
>> Says who?
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>> T-182T at BFM
>
> No one. Go back to your flawless software dreamworld.

IOW, you're just blowing gas out your nether regions.

Thought so.


> The rest of us will continue to insist on redundancy.

"Us" being you and your imaginary friends, I presume.

Insist away. Who will listen?

--
Dan

"Did you just have a stroke and not tell me?"
- Jiminy Glick

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

> Relax, G1000 Boy.
>
> From the beginning I said the evidence was anecdotal.

Um...no.

From the beginning, you said it was "apparently a regular occurence."

Then you weaseled back to admitting it was only in one (alleged) airplane.

And I have my doubts about that, since you incorrectly named the backup
instruments in a G1000 182.

Even Anthony would know better than that.

Can't you find Cessna's web site?


>
> Go enjoy your G1000. I'm plenty happy with a 6 pack and a 430 WAAS.

You're referring to the Sporty's poster on your wall, no doubt.

Enjoy.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

>> >> Whats the backup consist of?
>>
>> > AI, ASI, DG offset down and to the right.
>>
>> 'Zat so?
>>
>> How much time have you got with a G1000?
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>> T-182T at BFM
>
> Enough to know a fully redundant backup would be a lifesaver in IMC.

But not enough to know what the panel really looks like?

Haw-haw!

Even Anthony knows that!

Pratt.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Big John[_2_]]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:53:22 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

" > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-4d50-
:
>
>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and judegement
>>> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced GA
>>> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
>>> take a moment to pause.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>>
>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a big
>> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
>> driven turn coordinator.
>
>
>Whats the backup consist of?
>
>
>Bertie


Bertie

Let me use your post to tell another war story.

When The Air defense Command took delivery on the F-106 it was their
first bird to have tape gauges and all the gauges were tied to a
common power supply that ran most if not all of the electrical things
in bird.

That power supply failed very often leaving the bird without
instruments, Instead of grounding the fleet until the problem was
fixed (took over a year) we only flew the F-106 in pairs, day, night,
IFR, etc. If one bird had a failure he recovered in formation on the
wing of the other bird.

That was our redundancy :o)

Big John

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Big John" > wrote:

>
> That power supply failed very often leaving the bird without
> instruments, Instead of grounding the fleet until the problem was
> fixed (took over a year) we only flew the F-106 in pairs, day, night,
> IFR, etc. If one bird had a failure he recovered in formation on the
> wing of the other bird.
>
> That was our redundancy :o)

Holy ****!

And I call myself a pilot.

Haw!

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Big John > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:53:22 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
" > wrote in news:6320e4d4-a223-
4d50-
:
>>
>>> On Jan 24, 10:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Correct. So if two pilots who have far superior skill and
judegement
>>>> than you or I, that are flying one of the most technically advanced
GA
>>>> aircraft on the market can get into trouble, the rest of us should
>>>> take a moment to pause.
>>>>
>>>> -Robert
>>>
>>> The G1000 equipped 182 may be technically advanced, but I'm not a
big
>>> fan of the backup instrument layout and the lack of an electrically-
>>> driven turn coordinator.
>>
>>
>>Whats the backup consist of?
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>
>
> Bertie
>
> Let me use your post to tell another war story.
>
> When The Air defense Command took delivery on the F-106 it was their
> first bird to have tape gauges and all the gauges were tied to a
> common power supply that ran most if not all of the electrical things
> in bird.
>
> That power supply failed very often leaving the bird without
> instruments, Instead of grounding the fleet until the problem was
> fixed (took over a year) we only flew the F-106 in pairs, day, night,
> IFR, etc. If one bird had a failure he recovered in formation on the
> wing of the other bird.
>
> That was our redundancy :o)
>


Well, that and the bang seat!


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 10:48 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > Relax, G1000 Boy.
>
> > From the beginning I said the evidence was anecdotal.
>
> Um...no.
>
> From the beginning, you said it was "apparently a regular occurence."
>
> Then you weaseled back to admitting it was only in one (alleged) airplane.
>
> And I have my doubts about that, since you incorrectly named the backup
> instruments in a G1000 182.
>
> Even Anthony would know better than that.
>
> Can't you find Cessna's web site?
>
>
>
> > Go enjoy your G1000. I'm plenty happy with a 6 pack and a 430 WAAS.
>
> You're referring to the Sporty's poster on your wall, no doubt.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

You're right... I'll fess up.

I spend too much time in an A36 Bonanza. I avoid the dump truck 182
that burns the same amount of fuel to go 30% slower.

Dan

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jan 24, 5:40*pm, (Ron Lee) wrote:

> I suspect that many of those you cite with supposedly greater
> judgement who died are in fact people with more hours and training but
> seriousdy screwed up judgement that killed them.

That description does not apply to Ed Lewis. He was a superior pilot
with superior judgement. I'm not sure what exactely led up to the
decision to return early that night but if Ed decided to go I would
say most pilot would have gone. A lot of pilots say they have certain
limits but most fudge them when the situation is just right. That
should give us all pause.

-Robert

[girmann]

Bertie, Where is it!?!?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air_Europa/Boeing_737-86N/1246657



On Jan 24, 8:38*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
> you should see aht we have for standby!
>
> The newer generation of 737's and what not have one compined stby thing
> with tiny little gauges. I don't think I'd like to be stuck with them in
> a dark cockpit.
>
> Bertie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

girmann > wrote in news:31496bbb-f56c-4e25-b3ca-
:

> Bertie, Where is it!?!?
>
> http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air_Europa/Boeing_737-86N/1246657


If i'm not mistaken, it's the little square just to the right of the
captain's screen.

How it works, I have no idea. It's everything you need in one, though,
including the ILS.
The RMI underneath would be providing all of your azimuth info and would
give you a VOR or ADF as well.


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1066120/L/


The Standby stuff in this is al lined up underneath the Standby Horizon.
underneath that is the Standby ASI and under that the Standby Altimeter.
All of that woul dbe integrated into that one instrument on the new 73.
The ILS on the 757 is superimposed on the standby horizon which is a bit
strange since it looks the same as a flight director but is just a standard
winshield wiper type ILS display. Very ifficult to shake the temptation to
use it as a FD. I've only used it in anger in the sim, of course..


Bertie