Wood Laminations and Springback

[Kyle Boatright]

I'm working on the center section for a Hatz. The trailing edge of the
center section is a recurved lamination that provides better access to the
front cockpit.

I've steamed and clamped the strips into a form, and they have taken on some
of the curve, but when I unclamp 'em after they dry, I get significant
springback. The question is whether I need to allow for this in the
finished lamination, or whether the springback will go away when I glue up
the assembly?

FYI, the lamination starts as four 3" x 1/4" strips.

Thanks in advance,

Kyle Boatright

[Doug Palmer]

Most of the laminations I have done will within reason, retain the
shape they are set to when glued together. I have done laminations
where as the individual plies are NOT steam bent, and then glued in an
arc around a form. Once the glue dries the lamination holds the shape
of the form with zero or very little spring back. I would imagine you
could get some spring back if the lamination is highly stressed, that
is you are bending the hell out of the wood.

Good luck
Doug

[Kyle Boatright]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...

Snip

> FYI, the lamination starts as four 3" x 1/4" strips.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kyle Boatright

One correction and a bit more information, the strips are 1/8" thick and the
wood is Spruce.

Thanks again,

Kyle

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Doug Palmer" > wrote

> Once the glue dries the lamination holds the shape
> of the form with zero or very little spring back. I would imagine you
> could get some spring back if the lamination is highly stressed, that
> is you are bending the hell out of the wood.

What he said.

If the parts have more that around a 9" radius to the bend, you will
probably get about 1/4" spring back. If the radius is significantly larger,
there will be less, possibly a lot less spring back.

I would imagine that the part will be anchored to other stuff to help it
maintain it's shape, right? If that is the case, you probably don't need to
take any special efforts into account.

Ain't wood wonderful? It has life, and personality. It talks to me.

I like it a whole lot better than rocks that have been heated to thousands
of degrees, and melted into shapes. It has no life; it has had all of its
personality scorched out of it. JMHO. :-)
--
Jim in NC

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:31:29 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>I'm working on the center section for a Hatz. The trailing edge of the
>center section is a recurved lamination that provides better access to the
>front cockpit.
>
>I've steamed and clamped the strips into a form, and they have taken on some
>of the curve, but when I unclamp 'em after they dry, I get significant
>springback. The question is whether I need to allow for this in the
>finished lamination, or whether the springback will go away when I glue up
>the assembly?
>
>FYI, the lamination starts as four 3" x 1/4" strips.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Kyle Boatright

Kyle
wood is cellulose which is actually massive sugar molecules joined end
to end. joining all the cellulose together are a family of molecules
known as lignins. some lignins are thermo plastic and some are
thermosetting.
when you select wood for steaming and laminating you need to select a
timber with thermo softening lignins or you'll never get it to go soft
enough for forming.
when you've steamed a wood and placed it hot on the former then
clamped it in place until cold the wood should come off the former
with no springback. ...if it is a thermosoftening lignin.

I'd say that you've picked the wrong timber for laminating.
Stealth Pilot

[Bertie the Bunyip[_22_]]

Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:31:29 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
> > wrote:
>
>>I'm working on the center section for a Hatz. The trailing edge of
>>the center section is a recurved lamination that provides better
>>access to the front cockpit.
>>
>>I've steamed and clamped the strips into a form, and they have taken
>>on some of the curve, but when I unclamp 'em after they dry, I get
>>significant springback. The question is whether I need to allow for
>>this in the finished lamination, or whether the springback will go
>>away when I glue up the assembly?
>>
>>FYI, the lamination starts as four 3" x 1/4" strips.
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Kyle Boatright
>
> Kyle
> wood is cellulose which is actually massive sugar molecules joined end
> to end. joining all the cellulose together are a family of molecules
> known as lignins. some lignins are thermo plastic and some are
> thermosetting.
> when you select wood for steaming and laminating you need to select a
> timber with thermo softening lignins or you'll never get it to go soft
> enough for forming.
> when you've steamed a wood and placed it hot on the former then
> clamped it in place until cold the wood should come off the former
> with no springback. ...if it is a thermosoftening lignin.
>
> I'd say that you've picked the wrong timber for laminating.

Spruce is what's specified in the plans. I used it and they came out of
the jig with no springback whatsoever.

Bertie

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 02:47:56 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:31:29 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I'm working on the center section for a Hatz. The trailing edge of
>>>the center section is a recurved lamination that provides better
>>>access to the front cockpit.
>>>
>>>I've steamed and clamped the strips into a form, and they have taken
>>>on some of the curve, but when I unclamp 'em after they dry, I get
>>>significant springback. The question is whether I need to allow for
>>>this in the finished lamination, or whether the springback will go
>>>away when I glue up the assembly?
>>>
>>>FYI, the lamination starts as four 3" x 1/4" strips.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>>Kyle Boatright
>>
>> Kyle
>> wood is cellulose which is actually massive sugar molecules joined end
>> to end. joining all the cellulose together are a family of molecules
>> known as lignins. some lignins are thermo plastic and some are
>> thermosetting.
>> when you select wood for steaming and laminating you need to select a
>> timber with thermo softening lignins or you'll never get it to go soft
>> enough for forming.
>> when you've steamed a wood and placed it hot on the former then
>> clamped it in place until cold the wood should come off the former
>> with no springback. ...if it is a thermosoftening lignin.
>>
>> I'd say that you've picked the wrong timber for laminating.
>
>Spruce is what's specified in the plans. I used it and they came out of
>the jig with no springback whatsoever.
>
>Bertie

kyle steam it some more you use it. it should be too hot to handle
and pretty floppy. use leather gardening gloves.
as a guide to how small a curve can be I laminated up a bow when a
friend complained like you have.
the bow was 6" wide by 7" tall and was like a capital U.
the tighter the curve the thinner the lamination.
when wood is correctly glued is has the equivalent strength of solid
wood so dont be afraid of lots of thin laminations.
my smartarse piece has 9 laminations for 3/4" thickness of
laminations.
bandsaw thinner laminations and add another lamination or two to make
up for the kerfs.

Stealth Pilot