Re: How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

[[email protected]]

On Jan 31, 5:35*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace at KPHX drives another
> few nails into the GA coffin.

Huh? Why, explain.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> On Jan 31, 5:35*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> > What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace at KPHX drives another
> > few nails into the GA coffin.
>
> Huh? Why, explain.

Because it depends so much on moving-map navigation systems, rather than just
VORs and radials or landmarks. If you don't have a fancy glass display that
shows exactly where you are, you can easily bust the Class B without realizing
it. In previous configurations, you could use PXR to keep you out of trouble
through a large part of the airspace as long as you had a VOR receiver and
DME. Now you can't. Given the cost of advanced moving-map systems, many GA
aircraft aren't going to have them, and this new configuration seems to be a
deliberate attempt to keep GA aircraft in this category out of the airspace.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> writes:
>
>> On Jan 31, 5:35*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>> > What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace at KPHX
>> > drives another few nails into the GA coffin.
>>
>> Huh? Why, explain.
>
> Because it depends so much on moving-map navigation systems,


How would you know fjukkwit?

you don't fly.

Bertie

[John[_13_]]

Not true at all, handheld GPS moving map units can be had for as little as
300.00 less if used. and non aviation units for less then 100.00. If you
don't know the area then you had better have one. But looking at the chart
there are lots of places where the airspace does not get restricted until
3000 feet giving you plenty of room go under the class b airspace. Just
because you can't do it does not mean anyone else would have a issue with
it. You simply don't have a valid point of reference.

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> writes:
>
>> On Jan 31, 5:35 am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>> > What is happening to the FAA? The new Class B airspace at KPHX drives
>> > another
>> > few nails into the GA coffin.
>>
>> Huh? Why, explain.
>
> Because it depends so much on moving-map navigation systems, rather than
> just
> VORs and radials or landmarks. If you don't have a fancy glass display
> that
> shows exactly where you are, you can easily bust the Class B without
> realizing
> it. In previous configurations, you could use PXR to keep you out of
> trouble
> through a large part of the airspace as long as you had a VOR receiver and
> DME. Now you can't. Given the cost of advanced moving-map systems, many
> GA
> aircraft aren't going to have them, and this new configuration seems to be
> a
> deliberate attempt to keep GA aircraft in this category out of the
> airspace.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 31, 1:49*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
> > On Jan 31, 5:35*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> > > What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace at KPHX drives another
> > > few nails into the GA coffin.
>
> > Huh? Why, explain.
>
> Because it depends so much on moving-map navigation systems, rather than just
> VORs and radials or landmarks. *If you don't have a fancy glass display that
> shows exactly where you are, you can easily bust the Class B without realizing
> it. *In previous configurations, you could use PXR to keep you out of trouble
> through a large part of the airspace as long as you had a VOR receiver and
> DME. *Now you can't. *Given the cost of advanced moving-map systems, many GA
> aircraft aren't going to have them, and this new configuration seems to be a
> deliberate attempt to keep GA aircraft in this category out of the airspace.

I think you are right if all above's 'you' will be replaced by
'Mxsmanic'

-Kees

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:

> > On Jan 31, 5:35?am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> > > What is happening to the FAA? ?The new Class B airspace at KPHX drives another
> > > few nails into the GA coffin.
> >
> > Huh? Why, explain.

> Because it depends so much on moving-map navigation systems, rather than just
> VORs and radials or landmarks.

There isn't a class B in existance that depends on "just VORs and radials
or landmarks".

There is nothing special in the layout of that class B.

There is some that feel the layout isn't optimal for the traffic in
the area, but since you don't fly, what would you know about that?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Mxsmanic wrote:
>
>Because it depends so much on moving-map navigation systems, rather than just
>VORs and radials or landmarks. If you don't have a fancy glass display that
>shows exactly where you are, you can easily bust the Class B without realizing
>it.

I have successfully navigated around the new curved portions of the PHX
class B without a GPS, or a DME (hahaha!). Those of us that actually fly
were taught how to navigate using a chart. It's no different from navigating
around the class B before they changed it.

You are a such a tool.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200801/1

[[email protected]]

> * *I have successfully navigated around the new curved portions of the PHX
> class B without a GPS, or a DME (hahaha!). * Those of us that actually fly
> were taught how to navigate using a chart. *It's no different from navigating
> around the class B before they changed it.
>

Exactly. Being able to tell where you are with basic pilotage skills
and a chart is an essential part of being a pilot, it's part of the
PTS, and it's tested during the checkride.

Well, you don't NEED a checkride for MSFS.