a pilot question

[[email protected]]

Hi all,

I'm a pilot. I mean for real. Like certificated. My question is, why
aren't sims worth a damn? They're cheezy and crappy. The flight models
are wrong. The radio equipment doesn't work right. The terrain isn't
photorealistic and I can't pull negative Gs. You can't do pilotage.
The dead reckoning doesn't match up with real charts. What's wrong
with those computer programming geek f0ks? Can't they get anything
right?

When will I be able to learn something from a sim?

[Guy[_2_]]

Sims like these exist, the only problem is that they cost a few millions of
dollars.
Being a real pilot you should know that !!

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> I'm a pilot. I mean for real. Like certificated. My question is, why
> aren't sims worth a damn? They're cheezy and crappy. The flight models
> are wrong. The radio equipment doesn't work right. The terrain isn't
> photorealistic and I can't pull negative Gs. You can't do pilotage.
> The dead reckoning doesn't match up with real charts. What's wrong
> with those computer programming geek f0ks? Can't they get anything
> right?

It depends on what sim you have in mind; they are all different.

As far as desktop simulators go, a very large community of regular simmers
would disagree with you, and many of them are also "real" pilots.

When it comes to more advanced simulators, virtually none of your complaints
has any basis.

> When will I be able to learn something from a sim?

Some pilots learn humility in a sim.

[gregg]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> writes:
>
>> I'm a pilot. I mean for real. Like certificated. My question is, why
>> aren't sims worth a damn? They're cheezy and crappy. The flight models
>> are wrong. The radio equipment doesn't work right. The terrain isn't
>> photorealistic and I can't pull negative Gs. You can't do pilotage.
>> The dead reckoning doesn't match up with real charts. What's wrong
>> with those computer programming geek f0ks? Can't they get anything
>> right?
>
> It depends on what sim you have in mind; they are all different.
>
> As far as desktop simulators go, a very large community of regular simmers
> would disagree with you, and many of them are also "real" pilots.
>
> When it comes to more advanced simulators, virtually none of your complaints
> has any basis.
>
>> When will I be able to learn something from a sim?
>
> Some pilots learn humility in a sim.

Beautifully said, Mxsmanic.

Simulation is not reality. Live with it, and enjoy the huge value to be
obtained from a $100 simulator.

Gregg

[[email protected]]

> It depends on what sim you have in mind; they are all different.

I have tried 4 or 5. They all sucked.

> As far as desktop simulators go, a very large community of regular simmers
> would disagree with you, and many of them are also "real" pilots.

What is a "real' pilot?

> When it comes to more advanced simulators, virtually none of your complaints
> has any basis.

Which advanced simulators are you referring to?

> Some pilots learn humility in a sim.

I learn humility when I fly. How can you be humbled by a simulator?

[[email protected]]

>
> Simulation is not reality. Live with it, and enjoy the huge value to be
> obtained from a $100 simulator.
>
> Gregg-

Entertainment value, you mean?

Not as entertaining as flying a plane.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> Entertainment value, you mean?

Simulators can be a source of entertainment, but they can also be learning
tools, and diagnostic tools.

> Not as entertaining as flying a plane.

That is a matter of personal opinion.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> I have tried 4 or 5. They all sucked.

A whole four or five, eh? Sounds like a pretty exhaustive survey.

> What is a "real' pilot?

A pilot with a license to fly a real-world airplane. Of course, that isn't
really very specific.

> Which advanced simulators are you referring to?

Most of them, since desktop simulators are among the simplest ones available.

> I learn humility when I fly. How can you be humbled by a simulator?

Ah, so you haven't yet tried them all, eh?

[Mxsmanic]

The OTHER Kevin in San Diego <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> writes:

> Which has about as much excitement as watching water boil when
> compared to flying a helicopter. :)

Perhaps the only "real" pilots are helicopter pilots.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 7, 10:25*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
> > Entertainment value, you mean?
>
> Simulators can be a source of entertainment, but they can also be learning
> tools, and diagnostic tools.
>
> > Not as entertaining as flying a plane.
>
> That is a matter of personal opinion.

I've done both.

However, if you have not done both, then it is a matter over which you
can have no opinion.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 7, 10:26*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
> > I have tried 4 or 5. They all sucked.
>
> A whole four or five, eh? *Sounds like a pretty exhaustive survey.
>
> > What is a "real' pilot?
>
> A pilot with a license to fly a real-world airplane. *Of course, that isn't
> really very specific.
>
> > Which advanced simulators are you referring to?
>
> Most of them, since desktop simulators are among the simplest ones available.
>
> > I learn humility when I fly. How can you be humbled by a simulator?
>
> Ah, so you haven't yet tried them all, eh?

Hmm. I've run a fair number of desktop simulators -- some even
certificated for IFR flight training, though only in demo mode.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> However, if you have not done both, then it is a matter over which you
> can have no opinion.

And yet I do have an opinion, which invalidates your assertion.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> Hmm. I've run a fair number of desktop simulators -- some even
> certificated for IFR flight training, though only in demo mode.

And you've never made a mistake while flying in these simulators, no matter
how trying the conditions of flight?

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:

> > Hmm. I've run a fair number of desktop simulators -- some even
> > certificated for IFR flight training, though only in demo mode.

> And you've never made a mistake while flying in these simulators, no matter
> how trying the conditions of flight?

A non sequitur no matter how much you wish.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:

> > However, if you have not done both, then it is a matter over which you
> > can have no opinion.

> And yet I do have an opinion, which invalidates your assertion.

Everyone has opinions.

A few people have informed opinions.

You are not one of those people.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 9, 12:13*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> writes:
> > However, if you have not done both, then it is a matter over which you
> > can have no opinion.
>
> And yet I do have an opinion, which invalidates your assertion.

Not so. What it does show is your inability to understand that
opinions based on no experience have no value.

If a person has never encountered Indian cuisine in person, how can
they compare it to how much they enjoy French cuisine? They can't.
They have to encounter it in person first. Otherwise their opinion can
have no value -- because it is utterly uninformed.

And also we can apply that here: your personal opinion comparing how
exciting it is flying a real aircraft vs. playing with a simulator is
based on nothing. You can't say how exciting it is to fly a plane --
period. You can say how exciting it is for you to operate a simulator
though.

It's hard for me to apply the word "excitement" to playing with a
flight simulator, even one as neato as MSFS.

[[email protected]]

>
> And you've never made a mistake while flying in these simulators, no matter
> how trying the conditions of flight?

What constitutes a "mistake" when playing with a simulator --
especially one that has been designed for entertainment and not
proceedural training?

[indoubt]

wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a pilot. I mean for real. Like certificated. My question is, why
> aren't sims worth a damn? They're cheezy and crappy. The flight models
> are wrong. The radio equipment doesn't work right. The terrain isn't
> photorealistic and I can't pull negative Gs. You can't do pilotage.
> The dead reckoning doesn't match up with real charts. What's wrong
> with those computer programming geek f0ks? Can't they get anything
> right?
>
> When will I be able to learn something from a sim?
>

Go to http://fs-mp.com/
Do some flying there with real life ATC controllers etc etc etc.
Take part for some of the numerous events for example.

You must be still playing some simulator from the 8-bit Nintendo age.
Try installing FSX and try again ....





--




-indoubt-


************************************************** *****


"Cavaeat humanus sic tofu burritus e toga."

(Beware of the man with a tofu burrito in his toga.)


************************************************** *****

[rochrist]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> writes:
>
>> Entertainment value, you mean?
>
> Simulators can be a source of entertainment, but they can also be learning
> tools, and diagnostic tools.
>
>> Not as entertaining as flying a plane.
>
> That is a matter of personal opinion.

Gee, don't you think his name is a bit of a giveaway?