REPOST Enlisted Stories - Parade Ground - Lackland AFB Feb 2006 [01/11] IDX_ES01.jpg (0/1) 95 K

[Bill[_14_]]

Enlisted Stories Bronze Memorial Markers from the Parade Field at Lackland
Air Force Base San Antonio, TX. on a nice warm San Antonio February
Day.
Mr. Bill

[Andrew-S]

This really is fascinating stuff... It is also one of the most interesting
posts I have seen quite some time..


Andrew

"Bill" > wrote in message
...
>
> Enlisted Stories Bronze Memorial Markers from the Parade Field at Lackland
> Air Force Base San Antonio, TX. on a nice warm San Antonio February
> Day.
> Mr. Bill

[David Kazdan]

Maybe people here are interested--I'm a physician (anesthesiologist) for
the Department of Veterans' Affairs, and part of the privilege of such a
post is getting to hear the veterans' stories. One of my patients is
now 101, he was an enlisted-man pilot during WWII. Of all dreadful
jobs, he was an artillery spotter, flying L4-As (he says Piper Cubs, I
assume he means in military designation) at about 50', radioing back
"hit" reports to the artillery crews. I can't imagine many of his
comrades survived the war. He returned to school after, took a master's
degree in education, had a forty year career as a professor of education
at University of Akron.

He's in pretty good shape other than being blind, and lives in a VA
nursing home. I had him in for a small surgery on a Friday afternoon
about a year ago, and he was slow recovering from his anesthetic, so I
had him admitted overnight. He accepted this but was slightly
irritated, as Saturdays were his day to hold court at the nursing home
and he didn't want to miss it. Seems all the other residents and their
families circle around him then to hear his stories and perhaps tell
their own. I can only imagine the scenes.

The geriatrics department had a party for him for his 100th birthday, he
gave a speech and sang a few songs. The American Legion presented
colors, and several dignitaries from the Department of Veterans' Affairs
attended and spoke. It's been fun getting to know him over the past
several years.

I'm not posting his name because I don't have an easy way of asking him
permission to do so. I can inquire at the nursing home if readers here
are interested.

Thanks, Bill, for posting the plaque photos.

David

Bill wrote:
> Enlisted Stories Bronze Memorial Markers from the Parade Field at Lackland
> Air Force Base San Antonio, TX. on a nice warm San Antonio February
> Day.
> Mr. Bill

[Billzz]

"David Kazdan" > wrote in message
et...
> Maybe people here are interested--I'm a physician (anesthesiologist) for
> the Department of Veterans' Affairs, and part of the privilege of such a
> post is getting to hear the veterans' stories. One of my patients is now
> 101, he was an enlisted-man pilot during WWII. Of all dreadful jobs, he
> was an artillery spotter, flying L4-As (he says Piper Cubs, I assume he
> means in military designation) at about 50', radioing back "hit" reports
> to the artillery crews. I can't imagine many of his comrades survived the
> war. He returned to school after, took a master's degree in education,
> had a forty year career as a professor of education at University of
> Akron.
>
> He's in pretty good shape other than being blind, and lives in a VA
> nursing home. I had him in for a small surgery on a Friday afternoon
> about a year ago, and he was slow recovering from his anesthetic, so I had
> him admitted overnight. He accepted this but was slightly irritated, as
> Saturdays were his day to hold court at the nursing home and he didn't
> want to miss it. Seems all the other residents and their families circle
> around him then to hear his stories and perhaps tell their own. I can
> only imagine the scenes.
>
> The geriatrics department had a party for him for his 100th birthday, he
> gave a speech and sang a few songs. The American Legion presented colors,
> and several dignitaries from the Department of Veterans' Affairs attended
> and spoke. It's been fun getting to know him over the past several years.
>
> I'm not posting his name because I don't have an easy way of asking him
> permission to do so. I can inquire at the nursing home if readers here
> are interested.
>
> Thanks, Bill, for posting the plaque photos.
>
> David


I'm another Bill, but thank you, very much, for looking out for the "old
soldiers." The story is very much true. If you see the film, "The Longest
Day," Henry Fonda plays an intelligence person who gets a ride on an
artillery spotter plane to hunt for attacking German tanks. They are in the
vicinity when he asks the pilot to cut the engine so he can hear the
unmistakable sound of the tank treads. He hears them, and then the pilot
re-starts the engine, at tree level. I was told that the story was true and
I do not doubt it as I flew as a spotter in the 1960s in an L-19 "Birddog"
(made by Cessna) the follow-on to the L-4 (and later) series aircraft made
by Piper and their civilian name was Piper Cubs. The object was to fly as
low and slow as possible, to avoid anti-aircraft fire, while maintaining a
stable platform for the observer (it was usually two people, the pilot and
the observer.) At the time of WWII he was in the US Army, and even though
the 1948 act made a separate USAF, the artillery spotter planes remained
with the US Army, in the field artillery. In Vietnam I was the operations
officer (advisor) for a province and we had both Army and USAF L-19s
spotting for airstrikes, and artillery strikes, respectively. At that time
we kept them above 1500 feet to avoid small arms fire, there being no Viet
Cong airplanes or serious air defense. But they were true to their code and
never hesitated to dive right in on some suspected position - and I am sorry
to say that we lost one USAF FAC that way. It is a very strange person that
can operate that close to the ground, looking this way and that, while
marking a map, calling on the radio, and estimating changes in trajectories
for artillery that is not seen. He has my respect. You have to see the
movie.


> Bill wrote:
>> Enlisted Stories Bronze Memorial Markers from the Parade Field at
>> Lackland
>> Air Force Base San Antonio, TX. on a nice warm San Antonio February Day.
>> Mr. Bill

[David Kazdan]

Bill:

Thanks for the comments.

The Air Force Museum in Dayton has a display on enlisted-man pilots.
If I recall correctly, it says the last one retired around 1955--is
that, then, specifically the ones who made the transition to Air Force
in '48, and the Army kept a contingent?

David

Billzz wrote:
>
> I'm another Bill, but thank you, very much, for looking out for the "old
> soldiers." The story is very much true. If you see the film, "The Longest
> Day," Henry Fonda plays an intelligence person who gets a ride on an
> artillery spotter plane to hunt for attacking German tanks. They are in the
> vicinity when he asks the pilot to cut the engine so he can hear the
> unmistakable sound of the tank treads. He hears them, and then the pilot
> re-starts the engine, at tree level. I was told that the story was true and
> I do not doubt it as I flew as a spotter in the 1960s in an L-19 "Birddog"
> (made by Cessna) the follow-on to the L-4 (and later) series aircraft made
> by Piper and their civilian name was Piper Cubs. The object was to fly as
> low and slow as possible, to avoid anti-aircraft fire, while maintaining a
> stable platform for the observer (it was usually two people, the pilot and
> the observer.) At the time of WWII he was in the US Army, and even though
> the 1948 act made a separate USAF, the artillery spotter planes remained
> with the US Army, in the field artillery. In Vietnam I was the operations
> officer (advisor) for a province and we had both Army and USAF L-19s
> spotting for airstrikes, and artillery strikes, respectively. At that time
> we kept them above 1500 feet to avoid small arms fire, there being no Viet
> Cong airplanes or serious air defense. But they were true to their code and
> never hesitated to dive right in on some suspected position - and I am sorry
> to say that we lost one USAF FAC that way. It is a very strange person that
> can operate that close to the ground, looking this way and that, while
> marking a map, calling on the radio, and estimating changes in trajectories
> for artillery that is not seen. He has my respect. You have to see the
> movie.
>

[Brian Paul Ehni]

On 2/10/08 8:23 PM, in article ,
"Billzz" > wrote:


> I'm another Bill, but thank you, very much, for looking out for the "old
> soldiers." The story is very much true. If you see the film, "The Longest
> Day," Henry Fonda plays an intelligence person who gets a ride on an
> artillery spotter plane to hunt for attacking German tanks. They are in the
> vicinity when he asks the pilot to cut the engine so he can hear the
> unmistakable sound of the tank treads. He hears them, and then the pilot
> re-starts the engine, at tree level. I was told that the story was true and
> I do not doubt it as I flew as a spotter in the 1960s in an L-19 "Birddog"
> (made by Cessna) the follow-on to the L-4 (and later) series aircraft made
> by Piper and their civilian name was Piper Cubs. The object was to fly as
> low and slow as possible, to avoid anti-aircraft fire, while maintaining a
> stable platform for the observer (it was usually two people, the pilot and
> the observer.) At the time of WWII he was in the US Army, and even though
> the 1948 act made a separate USAF, the artillery spotter planes remained
> with the US Army, in the field artillery. In Vietnam I was the operations
> officer (advisor) for a province and we had both Army and USAF L-19s
> spotting for airstrikes, and artillery strikes, respectively. At that time
> we kept them above 1500 feet to avoid small arms fire, there being no Viet
> Cong airplanes or serious air defense. But they were true to their code and
> never hesitated to dive right in on some suspected position - and I am sorry
> to say that we lost one USAF FAC that way. It is a very strange person that
> can operate that close to the ground, looking this way and that, while
> marking a map, calling on the radio, and estimating changes in trajectories
> for artillery that is not seen. He has my respect. You have to see the
> movie.
>

That would be "Battle of the Bulge" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058947/

He played Brigadier General Theodore Roosevelt in "The Longest Day"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056197/

I don't know about the L-4, but my friend's Piper Cub (as all Piper Cubs)
has no starter motor; it has to be hand spun to start. The Super Cubs did
have starters, and perhaps the L-4s did, too.
--
Brian Ehni

[Billzz]

"David Kazdan" > wrote in message
...
> Bill:
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> The Air Force Museum in Dayton has a display on enlisted-man pilots. If I
> recall correctly, it says the last one retired around 1955--is that, then,
> specifically the ones who made the transition to Air Force in '48, and the
> Army kept a contingent?
>
> David

I enlisted in the army in 1958 and there was still a lot of people moving
around. My army flight instructor, at Fort Rucker, came from the air force,
so there was a lot of "cross-pollination," if you will. I served, as a
major (in the 1970s - believe it or not) with another major, who was a navy
enlisted man, in WWII, on the USS Bunker Hill, when it was kamikazied, and
he made it out through the ventilation system (and decided that the army
might be safer!) I've been to the USAF museum in Dayton, as part of a
Military Operations Research Society Symposium, and they closed the place
for our dinner. I think that is fair to say that they have spent a lot of
time and effort in the restoration of the aircraft, but much less in the
geneology of the people that were in the units that had the planes. My
guess is that the L-4 series planes and spotters, associated with the field
artillery, stayed with the army. Later the USAF established the Forward Air
Controller (FAC) system that had them using the same type (now L-19s)
aircraft. But I'm no expert, in this area.

> Billzz wrote:
>>
>> I'm another Bill, but thank you, very much, for looking out for the "old
>> soldiers." The story is very much true. If you see the film, "The
>> Longest Day," Henry Fonda plays an intelligence person who gets a ride
>> on an artillery spotter plane to hunt for attacking German tanks. They
>> are in the vicinity when he asks the pilot to cut the engine so he can
>> hear the unmistakable sound of the tank treads. He hears them, and then
>> the pilot re-starts the engine, at tree level. I was told that the story
>> was true and I do not doubt it as I flew as a spotter in the 1960s in an
>> L-19 "Birddog" (made by Cessna) the follow-on to the L-4 (and later)
>> series aircraft made by Piper and their civilian name was Piper Cubs.
>> The object was to fly as low and slow as possible, to avoid anti-aircraft
>> fire, while maintaining a stable platform for the observer (it was
>> usually two people, the pilot and the observer.) At the time of WWII he
>> was in the US Army, and even though the 1948 act made a separate USAF,
>> the artillery spotter planes remained with the US Army, in the field
>> artillery. In Vietnam I was the operations officer (advisor) for a
>> province and we had both Army and USAF L-19s spotting for airstrikes, and
>> artillery strikes, respectively. At that time we kept them above 1500
>> feet to avoid small arms fire, there being no Viet Cong airplanes or
>> serious air defense. But they were true to their code and never
>> hesitated to dive right in on some suspected position - and I am sorry to
>> say that we lost one USAF FAC that way. It is a very strange person that
>> can operate that close to the ground, looking this way and that, while
>> marking a map, calling on the radio, and estimating changes in
>> trajectories for artillery that is not seen. He has my respect. You
>> have to see the movie.
>>

[Billzz]

"Brian Paul Ehni" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/10/08 8:23 PM, in article ,
> "Billzz" > wrote:
>
>
>> I'm another Bill, but thank you, very much, for looking out for the "old
>> soldiers." The story is very much true. If you see the film, "The
>> Longest
>> Day," Henry Fonda plays an intelligence person who gets a ride on an
>> artillery spotter plane to hunt for attacking German tanks. They are in
>> the
>> vicinity when he asks the pilot to cut the engine so he can hear the
>> unmistakable sound of the tank treads. He hears them, and then the pilot
>> re-starts the engine, at tree level. I was told that the story was true
>> and
>> I do not doubt it as I flew as a spotter in the 1960s in an L-19
>> "Birddog"
>> (made by Cessna) the follow-on to the L-4 (and later) series aircraft
>> made
>> by Piper and their civilian name was Piper Cubs. The object was to fly
>> as
>> low and slow as possible, to avoid anti-aircraft fire, while maintaining
>> a
>> stable platform for the observer (it was usually two people, the pilot
>> and
>> the observer.) At the time of WWII he was in the US Army, and even
>> though
>> the 1948 act made a separate USAF, the artillery spotter planes remained
>> with the US Army, in the field artillery. In Vietnam I was the
>> operations
>> officer (advisor) for a province and we had both Army and USAF L-19s
>> spotting for airstrikes, and artillery strikes, respectively. At that
>> time
>> we kept them above 1500 feet to avoid small arms fire, there being no
>> Viet
>> Cong airplanes or serious air defense. But they were true to their code
>> and
>> never hesitated to dive right in on some suspected position - and I am
>> sorry
>> to say that we lost one USAF FAC that way. It is a very strange person
>> that
>> can operate that close to the ground, looking this way and that, while
>> marking a map, calling on the radio, and estimating changes in
>> trajectories
>> for artillery that is not seen. He has my respect. You have to see the
>> movie.
>>
>
> That would be "Battle of the Bulge" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058947/
>
> He played Brigadier General Theodore Roosevelt in "The Longest Day"
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056197/
>
> I don't know about the L-4, but my friend's Piper Cub (as all Piper Cubs)
> has no starter motor; it has to be hand spun to start. The Super Cubs did
> have starters, and perhaps the L-4s did, too.
> --
> Brian Ehni

Yes, you are right. My faulty memory is compressing all old WWII movies
into one long epic. The L-19 (Cessna) was an upgraded version of the
civilian version, so I suspect (but I do not know, never been in one) that
the Piper series was also upgraded, to include a starter. But Pipers in
WWII - I don't know.

[kcchambers]

My father was a combat L4 artillary spotter pilot through out the European campaign, one of only of two of his original squadron to survive the war. He taught me to fly as a teenager in a Cessna, and the trick he would pull on me when I was flying was to cut the mixture and tell me I just had engine failure. This would cut the engine noise almost completely and the prop would just windmill. I suspect this is same trick used in the story above - it can be reasonably quiet. My task was to find a landing field over whatever territory we were, usually nothing remotely flat. Once I decided and was lined up for a landing, he would restore the mixture and because the prop was windmilling you wouldn't have needed a starter, even though a Cessna had one. The engine would come back to life and I wouldn't have to actually land. Scared the hell out of me because I was never sure how long he would wait, or if the engine would catch. But I did a lot of low altitude approaches over rough terrain.

[kcchambers]

My father was a combat L4 artillary spotter pilot through out the European campaign, one of only of two of his original squadron to survive the war. He taught me to fly as a teenager in a Cessna, and the trick he would pull on me when I was flying was to cut the mixture and tell me I just had engine failure. This would cut the engine noise almost completely and the prop would just windmill. I suspect this is same trick used in the story above - it can be reasonably quiet. My task was to find a landing field over whatever territory we were, usually nothing remotely flat. Once I decided and was lined up for a landing, he would restore the mixture and because the prop was windmilling you wouldn't have needed a starter, even though a Cessna had one. The engine would come back to life and I wouldn't have to actually land. Scared the hell out of me because I was never sure how long he would wait, or if the engine would catch. But I did a lot of low altitude approaches over rough terrain.


and by the way, his name was "Bill"....