Re: landing gear retraction in sel

[Big John[_2_]]

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:58:05 -0800 (PST), Tina >
wrote:

>OK, our way is like this, It's a Mooney, and the gear comes up in
>visual conditions at about 100 feet agl or when there's not enough
>runway ahead to land. In hard IMC it's sometime after the transition
>to instrument controlled flight if the ceiling is pretty low. We've
>looked thru a bunch of complex SEL NTSB findings, haven't found
>anything that suggests we're missing something that causes accidents
>(other than staying on the ground and NOT driving to the airport)..
>
>Is there a better way?

************************************************** ********************

My Mooney had a manual gear. When I took off with minimums I retracted
the gear (2 seconds to retract) as soon as I broke ground and still
had runway in sight.

This left me with nothing to do but fly the plane when I went hard
IFR.

Big John

[Tina]

You had a Ranger: we did too, before the 201. But I wanted a little
bit of air under the airplane because I used some forward pressure on
the yoke to lighten the load on the Joe bar during gear retraction.
Because of that we'd be pretty high -- a couple of hundred feet --
before bringing the gear up in hard IFR.

Did your Ranger pick up carb ice in the wink of an eye? Ours did, more
than any other normal carberated airplane I know of. There was never a
need to look for 3 green lights with the Ranger -- gear bar against
the instrument panel was on our pre landing checklist.


On Feb 11, 1:16 am, Big John > wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:58:05 -0800 (PST), Tina >
> wrote:
>
> >OK, our way is like this, It's a Mooney, and the gear comes up in
> >visual conditions at about 100 feet agl or when there's not enough
> >runway ahead to land. In hard IMC it's sometime after the transition
> >to instrument controlled flight if the ceiling is pretty low. We've
> >looked thru a bunch of complex SEL NTSB findings, haven't found
> >anything that suggests we're missing something that causes accidents
> >(other than staying on the ground and NOT driving to the airport)..
>
> >Is there a better way?
>
> ************************************************** ********************
>
> My Mooney had a manual gear. When I took off with minimums I retracted
> the gear (2 seconds to retract) as soon as I broke ground and still
> had runway in sight.
>
> This left me with nothing to do but fly the plane when I went hard
> IFR.
>
> Big John

[Big John[_2_]]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:59:16 -0800 (PST), Tina >
wrote:

>You had a Ranger: we did too, before the 201. But I wanted a little
>bit of air under the airplane because I used some forward pressure on
>the yoke to lighten the load on the Joe bar during gear retraction.
>Because of that we'd be pretty high -- a couple of hundred feet --
>before bringing the gear up in hard IFR.
>
>Did your Ranger pick up carb ice in the wink of an eye? Ours did, more
>than any other normal carberated airplane I know of. There was never a
>need to look for 3 green lights with the Ranger -- gear bar against
>the instrument panel was on our pre landing checklist.
>
>
>On Feb 11, 1:16 am, Big John > wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:58:05 -0800 (PST), Tina >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >OK, our way is like this, It's a Mooney, and the gear comes up in
>> >visual conditions at about 100 feet agl or when there's not enough
>> >runway ahead to land. In hard IMC it's sometime after the transition
>> >to instrument controlled flight if the ceiling is pretty low. We've
>> >looked thru a bunch of complex SEL NTSB findings, haven't found
>> >anything that suggests we're missing something that causes accidents
>> >(other than staying on the ground and NOT driving to the airport)..
>>
>> >Is there a better way?
>>
>> ************************************************** ********************
>>
>> My Mooney had a manual gear. When I took off with minimums I retracted
>> the gear (2 seconds to retract) as soon as I broke ground and still
>> had runway in sight.
>>
>> This left me with nothing to do but fly the plane when I went hard
>> IFR.
>>
>> Big John

************************************************** ***************************

Tina

My Mooney (N6213U) was a 1962 Mark 20C. Second year they went to all
metal. Hanger'd all it's life.

180 HP engine normalized with a Ray Jay Turbo.
Dual navcoms, ILS, market beacon, etc. (full IFR)
Built in Oxy.
Fuselage tank added. (about 6 1/2+ hours of fuel).
NO wing leveler. Hand fly all the time.
Manual gear, of course.

Looked a long time for a bird with these options.

On a normal take off, like you, I unloaded the bird and gear almost
came up by itself after unlocking the gear handle.

On a take off into minimums, my years of IFR flying experience in Air
Force showed that it was safer to get bird cleaned up before going IFR
so you could spend your effort flying bird and not have to worry about
configuring bird for flight.

Miss the little jewel but sold after came down with A-Fib (heart). Now
have two pacemakers (multi engine :o) Just had a chest x-ray and I
have more wire in my chest than barb wire on a West Texas ranch :o)

Fly safe

Big John

[Tina]

I know about a-fib all too well. Sorry to hear about it. RF ablation
is becoming pretty common, and it works pretty well. Big guns are at
Cleveland and Duke -- I know of cases where the pacemaker reports zero
a-fib for years after an effective ablation. Even meds like Tykosin
(spelling very questionable) seem to lose their effectiveness after a
while.

Usually all that pacing is to prevent the heart from beating too slow,
the meds tend to do that. Is one of the pacers doing more than just
pacing?

I always enjoyed jet fighters sucking up the gear so quickly, but we
like a lot of air under us when we do it. Our IO 360 can be leaned to
a bit more than 8 gph, so with almost 60 gallons aboard it has long
legs. When the Mooney guys fixed the windscreen and cowling it really
made that airplane go fast. I wonder how hard it would have been to
retrofit the Rangers and Executives.

I think given our skill levels if we were using that Joe bar to get
the gear up we'd continue to wait until we had a stabilized climb
instead of just after rotation. It's all theory now, we have a motor
instead of the joe bar to bring the gear up.









On Feb 11, 9:32 pm, Big John > wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:59:16 -0800 (PST), Tina >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >You had a Ranger: we did too, before the 201. But I wanted a little
> >bit of air under the airplane because I used some forward pressure on
> >the yoke to lighten the load on the Joe bar during gear retraction.
> >Because of that we'd be pretty high -- a couple of hundred feet --
> >before bringing the gear up in hard IFR.
>
> >Did your Ranger pick up carb ice in the wink of an eye? Ours did, more
> >than any other normal carberated airplane I know of. There was never a
> >need to look for 3 green lights with the Ranger -- gear bar against
> >the instrument panel was on our pre landing checklist.
>
> >On Feb 11, 1:16 am, Big John > wrote:
> >> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:58:05 -0800 (PST), Tina >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >OK, our way is like this, It's a Mooney, and the gear comes up in
> >> >visual conditions at about 100 feet agl or when there's not enough
> >> >runway ahead to land. In hard IMC it's sometime after the transition
> >> >to instrument controlled flight if the ceiling is pretty low. We've
> >> >looked thru a bunch of complex SEL NTSB findings, haven't found
> >> >anything that suggests we're missing something that causes accidents
> >> >(other than staying on the ground and NOT driving to the airport)..
>
> >> >Is there a better way?
>
> >> ************************************************** ********************
>
> >> My Mooney had a manual gear. When I took off with minimums I retracted
> >> the gear (2 seconds to retract) as soon as I broke ground and still
> >> had runway in sight.
>
> >> This left me with nothing to do but fly the plane when I went hard
> >> IFR.
>
> >> Big John
>
> ************************************************** ***************************
>
> Tina
>
> My Mooney (N6213U) was a 1962 Mark 20C. Second year they went to all
> metal. Hanger'd all it's life.
>
> 180 HP engine normalized with a Ray Jay Turbo.
> Dual navcoms, ILS, market beacon, etc. (full IFR)
> Built in Oxy.
> Fuselage tank added. (about 6 1/2+ hours of fuel).
> NO wing leveler. Hand fly all the time.
> Manual gear, of course.
>
> Looked a long time for a bird with these options.
>
> On a normal take off, like you, I unloaded the bird and gear almost
> came up by itself after unlocking the gear handle.
>
> On a take off into minimums, my years of IFR flying experience in Air
> Force showed that it was safer to get bird cleaned up before going IFR
> so you could spend your effort flying bird and not have to worry about
> configuring bird for flight.
>
> Miss the little jewel but sold after came down with A-Fib (heart). Now
> have two pacemakers (multi engine :o) Just had a chest x-ray and I
> have more wire in my chest than barb wire on a West Texas ranch :o)
>
> Fly safe
>
> Big John

[Big John[_2_]]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:29:13 -0800 (PST), Tina >
wrote:

>I know about a-fib all too well. Sorry to hear about it. RF ablation
>is becoming pretty common, and it works pretty well. Big guns are at
>Cleveland and Duke -- I know of cases where the pacemaker reports zero
>a-fib for years after an effective ablation. Even meds like Tykosin
>(spelling very questionable) seem to lose their effectiveness after a
>while.
>
>Usually all that pacing is to prevent the heart from beating too slow,
>the meds tend to do that. Is one of the pacers doing more than just
>pacing?
>
>I always enjoyed jet fighters sucking up the gear so quickly, but we
>like a lot of air under us when we do it. Our IO 360 can be leaned to
>a bit more than 8 gph, so with almost 60 gallons aboard it has long
>legs. When the Mooney guys fixed the windscreen and cowling it really
>made that airplane go fast. I wonder how hard it would have been to
>retrofit the Rangers and Executives.
>
>I think given our skill levels if we were using that Joe bar to get
>the gear up we'd continue to wait until we had a stabilized climb
>instead of just after rotation. It's all theory now, we have a motor
>instead of the joe bar to bring the gear up.
>
>************************************************** ********************************
>Tina

First had the manual cutting of nerves in upper chamber and would not
stay in sync.

Then had the RF procedure and it would stay in sync for a couple of
days and then fall out. Shock paddles several times and would reset
and still fell out in a day or two :o(

Doc said with my demand pacemaker I was getting what he called a "Lazy
Heart" so put in a full time pacemaker in both upper and lower
chambers and included a ICD (Like Chenny has). They couldn't get the
old pacemaker out so left in and set to only come on if new one quit.

Now with a unit in both shoulders I can't shoot my shot gun or rifle
:o(

Have thought about getting one of the new put puts which I could fly
since I have never been turned down for a medical, but have enough
flying that would only enjoy flying around the flag pole for a flight
or two.

I do have a friend who has a Caravan and would like some instrument
instruction which I could give since he would be PIC. Maybe this
summer. Still have my CFI.

Do miss the flying which I did from mid 30's to late '80's. (almost 60
years)

Are you going to get one of the Acclaim's 237 Ktas 1447 nm ??????????

Go fly and have fun :o)

Big John

[JOM]

I know a Airline pilot (retired) that actually got his medical (class III) back after a pacemaker. His doctor said that with the pacemaker his chance of having a heart attack was less than what is was for the average pilot his have without one. He did spend a lot of money and time on the issue though. You also might check out www.leftseat.com, I don't know if my freind used them or not.

JOM

;601450']On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:29:13 -0800 (PST), Tina
wrote:

I know about a-fib all too well. Sorry to hear about it. RF ablation
is becoming pretty common, and it works pretty well. Big guns are at
Cleveland and Duke -- I know of cases where the pacemaker reports zero
a-fib for years after an effective ablation. Even meds like Tykosin
(spelling very questionable) seem to lose their effectiveness after a
while.

Usually all that pacing is to prevent the heart from beating too slow,
the meds tend to do that. Is one of the pacers doing more than just
pacing?

I always enjoyed jet fighters sucking up the gear so quickly, but we
like a lot of air under us when we do it. Our IO 360 can be leaned to
a bit more than 8 gph, so with almost 60 gallons aboard it has long
legs. When the Mooney guys fixed the windscreen and cowling it really
made that airplane go fast. I wonder how hard it would have been to
retrofit the Rangers and Executives.

I think given our skill levels if we were using that Joe bar to get
the gear up we'd continue to wait until we had a stabilized climb
instead of just after rotation. It's all theory now, we have a motor
instead of the joe bar to bring the gear up.

************************************************** ********************************
Tina

First had the manual cutting of nerves in upper chamber and would not
stay in sync.

Then had the RF procedure and it would stay in sync for a couple of
days and then fall out. Shock paddles several times and would reset
and still fell out in a day or two :o(

Doc said with my demand pacemaker I was getting what he called a "Lazy
Heart" so put in a full time pacemaker in both upper and lower
chambers and included a ICD (Like Chenny has). They couldn't get the
old pacemaker out so left in and set to only come on if new one quit.

Now with a unit in both shoulders I can't shoot my shot gun or rifle
:o(

Have thought about getting one of the new put puts which I could fly
since I have never been turned down for a medical, but have enough
flying that would only enjoy flying around the flag pole for a flight
or two.

I do have a friend who has a Caravan and would like some instrument
instruction which I could give since he would be PIC. Maybe this
summer. Still have my CFI.

Do miss the flying which I did from mid 30's to late '80's. (almost 60
years)

Are you going to get one of the Acclaim's 237 Ktas 1447 nm ??????????

Go fly and have fun :o)

Big John

[Big John[_2_]]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:20:40 +0000, JOM
> wrote:

>
>I know a Airline pilot (retired) that actually got his medical (class
>III) back after a pacemaker. His doctor said that with the pacemaker
>his chance of having a heart attack was less than what is was for the
>average pilot his have without one. He did spend a lot of money and
>time on the issue though. You also might check out www.leftseat.com, I
>don't know if my freind used them or not.
>
>JOM
>
>'Big John[_2_ Wrote:
>> ;601450']On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:29:13 -0800 (PST), Tina
>>
>> wrote:
>> -
>> I know about a-fib all too well. Sorry to hear about it. RF ablation
>> is becoming pretty common, and it works pretty well. Big guns are at
>> Cleveland and Duke -- I know of cases where the pacemaker reports zero
>> a-fib for years after an effective ablation. Even meds like Tykosin
>> (spelling very questionable) seem to lose their effectiveness after a
>> while.
>>
>> Usually all that pacing is to prevent the heart from beating too slow,
>> the meds tend to do that. Is one of the pacers doing more than just
>> pacing?
>>
>> I always enjoyed jet fighters sucking up the gear so quickly, but we
>> like a lot of air under us when we do it. Our IO 360 can be leaned to
>> a bit more than 8 gph, so with almost 60 gallons aboard it has long
>> legs. When the Mooney guys fixed the windscreen and cowling it really
>> made that airplane go fast. I wonder how hard it would have been to
>> retrofit the Rangers and Executives.
>>
>> I think given our skill levels if we were using that Joe bar to get
>> the gear up we'd continue to wait until we had a stabilized climb
>> instead of just after rotation. It's all theory now, we have a motor
>> instead of the joe bar to bring the gear up.
>>
>> ************************************************** ********************************
>> Tina-
>>
>> First had the manual cutting of nerves in upper chamber and would not
>> stay in sync.
>>
>> Then had the RF procedure and it would stay in sync for a couple of
>> days and then fall out. Shock paddles several times and would reset
>> and still fell out in a day or two :o(
>>
>> Doc said with my demand pacemaker I was getting what he called a "Lazy
>> Heart" so put in a full time pacemaker in both upper and lower
>> chambers and included a ICD (Like Chenny has). They couldn't get the
>> old pacemaker out so left in and set to only come on if new one quit.
>>
>> Now with a unit in both shoulders I can't shoot my shot gun or rifle
>> :o(
>>
>> Have thought about getting one of the new put puts which I could fly
>> since I have never been turned down for a medical, but have enough
>> flying that would only enjoy flying around the flag pole for a flight
>> or two.
>>
>> I do have a friend who has a Caravan and would like some instrument
>> instruction which I could give since he would be PIC. Maybe this
>> summer. Still have my CFI.
>>
>> Do miss the flying which I did from mid 30's to late '80's. (almost 60
>> years)
>>
>> Are you going to get one of the Acclaim's 237 Ktas 1447 nm ??????????
>>
>> Go fly and have fun :o)
>>
>> Big John
************************************************** ********

JOM

Tnx for the info.

However I also have the following:

Double cataract removal and result is poor at best. Had to stop flying
my radio controlled models as couldn't see them. After crashing
several I put my ego away and gave all the airplanes and radio's away
to my good flying buddy.

Also have (dead nerves in legs and feet) and can barely walk any
distance. Cause either Agent Orange or back injury when I ejected out
of a jet in 1968 :o(

As you can see I have got to the top of the hill (age wise) and now am
over the top and going down hill and picking up speed :o(

Fly safe and live long.

Big John