Proposal: The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project

[Larry Dighera]

The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project

Yah know, it seems a pitiful thing indeed, that the great fraternity
of his fellow airman have been unsuccessful in their search for their
intrepid fellow, Steve Fossett. Initially those in authority directed
the search and rescue operations immediately after his disappearance.
They ordered all airmen/aircraft to remain outside the search area
while they conducted their searches. Later, Google made satellite
images available, so that the web community could add their zillions
of Mark I Eyeballs to those flying the search missions. (Was there
ever a search made of satellite photographs of the area taken during
the appropriate time window to look for a smoke plume? Do such photos
even exist?)

With the recent judicial declaration of Mr. Fossett's legal demise,
perhaps the time has finally arrived for those who would like to
volunteer their time and resources to an Airmans Fellowship Search
effort for the late Mr. Fossett.

This effort could be massive if the spirit of airmen respect for
Steve's broadening of the boundaries of human achievement can be
tapped. A well throughout plan to coordinate and direct such an
effort is essential, but more important are the skills and
intelligence of the person to head it, and those under him/her. But
I'd wager that there are plenty airmen among the readership of this
newsgroup alone who possess the skills and resources to organize and
execute the effort.

Because we are free to draft the regulations, the unique qualities of
the group could be enlisted for more diverse and specific operations
than have been conducted to date. Searchers could get down lower if
there were enough of them. Bush planes could be called in if ground
search was appropriate.

It has been suggested that the wreckage may lie at the bottom of a
lake. Perhaps the web diving-community could be enlisted to organize
a similar effort for searching the local lakes. Given Steve's
apparent audacious já de viver, who knows, he could have been skipping
his wheels on the glassy lake surface, and hit a swell. :-)

For this effort to succeed it will require two things:

1. A viable plan of action implemented by the right people

2. A corps of willing volunteers who would find it an honor to
participate



Opinions?


Suggestions?


Sign up:

Name:
Location:
Skills:
Equipment:
Availability:

[Kobra]

> of Mark I Eyeballs to those flying the search missions.

Off topic...ok...I've heard this joke before exactly as quoted above (Mark I
Eyeballs) too many times now to sit silent. I have to say
something....won't it be more appropriate and more funny to say, "...Mark II
Eyeballs" since most of us have TWO eyeballs which we use to look and search
for something? So for the record, I think the joke was originally stated
as: "Mark II Eyeballs"

Sorry for the nit-picking...nothing personal Larry.

Kobra

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:23:38 +0100 (CET), nobody >
wrote in >:

>This would be a good idea if someone besides Larry were coordinating it.

Who said I was coordinating it?

I'm just the idea man. :-)

What would you be willing to volunteer?

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project

After one of the largest domestic searches in American history came up
empty, what makes you think a bunch of us guys in spam cans can do better?

Not that it's not a laudable goal -- I just question the premise. That is a
huge, unpopulated, relatively inhospitable area to search...

And, of course, there is always the remote possibility that he doesn't WANT
to be found...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>After one of the largest domestic searches in American history came up
>empty, what makes you think a bunch of us guys in spam cans can do better?
>

I've gotta agree with that one. Out here in the West, the way it usually
works is that if you're not found after an extensive search, you'll generally
sit undisturbed until someone (usually a hunter/prospector) runs across your
crash site by sheer coincidence. There are some wreck sites that are just
impossible to spot from the air, such as a vertical descent into a heavily
treed area. I've been to some wreck sites in the mountains that I couldn't
see from 20 yds. away on the ground, much less from an airplane flying
overhead.

It's a laudable goal, to be sure, but given the effort that has already
taken place, I'd say the odds of success would be slim to none.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200802/1

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:59:10 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote in <idhvj.43753$yE1.27867@attbi_s21>:

>> The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project
>
>After one of the largest domestic searches in American history came up
>empty, what makes you think a bunch of us guys in spam cans can do better?

Would you question the premise that more searchers at lower level
would be more likely to spot the downed aircraft?

Have you ever witnessed bureaucratic obstacles hindering success?

>Not that it's not a laudable goal -- I just question the premise. That is a
>huge, unpopulated, relatively inhospitable area to search...

It is a largely unvegetated expanse of open desert, so there is less
to obscure the aircraft.

With my people skills, I am obviously not well suited to head this
effort, but someone with your charisma might spark some interest in
it. Publicize it a bit, and see what sort of response it receives. I
dare ya. :-)






>And, of course, there is always the remote possibility that he doesn't WANT
>to be found...

That thought has probably crossed a few minds, but what motivation
would there be? He wouldn't have access to his bank account, a legal
Passport nor an airmans certificate, his activities would necessarily
be considerably more restricted. Not likely.

[AJ]

And there is the extra-added possibility that the search team would
need to search for one of their own if anything goes wrong.
AJ

On Feb 21, 10:59 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project
>
> After one of the largest domestic searches in American history came up
> empty, what makes you think a bunch of us guys in spam cans can do better?
>
> Not that it's not a laudable goal -- I just question the premise. That is a
> huge, unpopulated, relatively inhospitable area to search...
>
> And, of course, there is always the remote possibility that he doesn't WANT
> to be found...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:29:35 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
<u32749@uwe> wrote in <80121246ff371@uwe>:

[Reasonable discourse and personal observations snipped]

> It's a laudable goal, to be sure, but given the effort that has already
>taken place,

Do you have information about the specifics of the search effort that
has already been conducted?

>I'd say the odds of success would be slim to none.

Two questions:

1. If such an effort were organized, would you personally be
interested in searching? (I would)

2. In the event that the nation's pilots were successful, how do
you think it would affect public opinion of GA operations?

Perhaps the EAA would be an appropriate organization to carry the
ball.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Larry Dighera wrote:
>
>Do you have information about the specifics of the search effort that
>has already been conducted?

Nothing other than the news reports at the time of the search. They
indicated that the search effort was much more extensive than one would
expect for the average missing plane.
>
>
>Two questions:
>
> 1. If such an effort were organized, would you personally be
> interested in searching? (I would)

I don't think I would be. Searching for a downed plane with possible
survivors is one thing. Conducting a massive search to recover a body is
another. There are risks involved to the search aircraft and crew
(particularly in the area in question) that would make it hard to justify.
>
> 2. In the event that the nation's pilots were successful, how do
> you think it would affect public opinion of GA operations?

I don't the general public would care much one way or the other.
>
>Perhaps the EAA would be an appropriate organization to carry the
>ball.

You could try, but I think they would probably pass due to the risk vs.
reward factor.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200802/1

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Larry Dighera > wrote in
:

>
>
> The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project

Why don't you save that money and send it to someone who is hungry?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Larry Dighera > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:23:38 +0100 (CET), nobody >
> wrote in >:
>
>>This would be a good idea if someone besides Larry were coordinating it.
>
> Who said I was coordinating it?


Who said he was talking about you?


Oh, and you're not an idea man. You have never had an idea in your life.





bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Larry Dighera > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:59:10 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote in <idhvj.43753$yE1.27867@attbi_s21>:
>
>>> The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project
>>
>>After one of the largest domestic searches in American history came up
>>empty, what makes you think a bunch of us guys in spam cans can do
>>better?
>
> Would you question the premise that more searchers at lower level
> would be more likely to spot the downed aircraft?
>
> Have you ever witnessed bureaucratic obstacles hindering success?
>
>>Not that it's not a laudable goal -- I just question the premise.
>>That is a huge, unpopulated, relatively inhospitable area to search...
>
> It is a largely unvegetated expanse of open desert, so there is less
> to obscure the aircraft.
>
> With my people skills, I am obviously not well suited to head this
> effort, but someone with your charisma might spark some interest in
> it. Publicize it a bit, and see what sort of response it receives. I
> dare ya. :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>And, of course, there is always the remote possibility that he doesn't
>>WANT to be found...
>
> That thought has probably crossed a few minds, but what motivation
> would there be? He wouldn't have access to his bank account, a legal
> Passport nor an airmans certificate, his activities would necessarily
> be considerably more restricted. Not likely.
>
>

Wow, why they don't have you and Jay on that danged middle east problem,
I'll never undrstand.

Oh wait, maybe they do!


Bertie

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:59:10 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote in <idhvj.43753$yE1.27867@attbi_s21>:
>> Not that it's not a laudable goal -- I just question the premise. That is a
>> huge, unpopulated, relatively inhospitable area to search...
>
> With my people skills, I am obviously not well suited to head this
> effort, but someone with your charisma might spark some interest in
> it.

Now that has to be one of the most laughable slurps in Usenet history...

[Larry Dighera]

Well, it looks as though folks are still hopeful:



New Fossett Search Efforts Planned For Summer Private Teams Will
Concentrate On Two Areas Near Planned
Destination

Two private ventures to
find adventurer Steve Fossett, missing since last September,
plan to renew the search in rugged mountains now clear of snow.

As reported by ANN, after
months of searching, a judge in Illinois officially declared
Fossett, 63, legally dead on February 15. Despite this, many hope
to at least find the wreckage of the small borrowed plane he was
using to survey possible locations to conduct a land speed record
attempt he was planning.

The Associated Press said the renewed searches will not match
the massive search last year covering nearly 20,000 square miles
and involving the efforts of many private and government groups
plus ground search crews, high-tech equipment and satellite
imagery.

The new effort includes two teams hoping to search primarily on
the ground in two distinct smaller areas they feel are likely
places where Fossett may have gone down.

Many involved in the search effort last year are not helping
directly with the renewed searches, but are assisting by providing
maps and detailed information on the rugged terrain they aim to
cover.

"The more people we have, the more eyes and boots on the ground
we have, the better our chances are of locating Mr. Fossett," said
Gary Derks of the Nevada Department of Public Safety, who oversaw
the 2007 hunt. "I wish them a lot of luck."

A team led by Canadian geologist Simon Donato, 31, will set out
in late July to search a remote area on the east slope of the
Sierra range. With experience in adventure racing through
wilderness areas around the world, Donato will bring up to ten
other backcountry athletes, some with search and rescue experience,
with him.
"You never know what you're going to find out there," said
Donato.

"It's going to be getting into those hard-to-reach areas and
basically crossing them off the map," he said. "The best-case
scenario is that we find him. The worst-case scenario - we're
making it easier for people in the future to continue this."

Donato said his efforts were to honor Fossett who he said "was a
hero to so many people."

"He had a huge following. People loved him. They love adventure,
and he was pushing the boundaries. Somebody like that just deserves
to be found" he said.

In late August, Washington, D.C., investor, alpinist and
longtime Explorers Club member Robert Hyman, 49, plans to lead a
team of up to 15 climbers, mountain guides and others with
backcountry expertise to check an area just east of the area Donato
is concentrating in.

Hymans search will focus on cliffs, crevices, ledges, steep
canyons and other hard-to-reach spots around the Wassuk Range,
dominated by 11,239-foot-high Mount Grant.

When Fossett departed on September 3, 2008, he originally headed
toward Lucky Boy Pass in the Wassuks in the borrowed Bellanca 8KCAB
Decathlon

"We're going to have to do this on foot, the old-fashioned
way," Hyman said referring to the massive aerial search last year.
"He's obviously in an area that you just can't see from overhead,
even with satellite imagery and high-altitude mapping and infrared
and everything else."

"If we go out there and don't find anything, OK, well, we tried.
And if next week, we hear on the news that someone else found him,
that's great. That's what we're all about. That's what we want,"
said Hyman, an experienced climber who has climbed the highest
peaks in all but three U.S. states and veteran of numerous mountain
and jungle expeditions.

Issuing a statement through a spokesman, widow Peggy Fossett
said that an analysis of high-tech mapping photography done in late
2007 was completed with no results and she's not involved in the
upcoming activity and has "no further plans for additional
searching."

Fossett's disappearance remains an open case for the Lyon
Country Sheriff's Department with jurisdiction over the
sprawling Flying M Ranch which Fossett departed from owned by hotel
magnate and friend, Barron Hilton.

While no official search is planned, Lyon County Undersheriff
Joe Sanford said search-and-rescue crews will be sent out
immediately if the teams led by Donato and Hyman spot
something.

"I truly thought someone would find something come springtime
when they started traipsing around hunting and things like that,"
Sanford said.

The sheriff said his department is cooperating with the
summer-season searchers as much as possible.

"We're not going to tell people not to go, but what they do if
they find something is always our concern," he said. "Where are
they going and what do they do if they need help - those are the
things that we're concerned with."

The chances of finding evidence of Fossetts loss seems for many
to be a hopeless effort. The area around Hilton's ranch, 80
miles southeast or Reno, typifies Nevada landscape including barren
areas as well as rugged terrain and wide swaths of trees that could
easily hide a downed aircraft.

"Don't give up hope. We waited 60 years or more," said Jeanne
Pyle, brother of WWII airman Ernest Munn whose body was found last
year in the high Sierra after his trainer disappeared in 1942.

(Photo of Fossett's plane, N240R, courtesy of Doug
Robertson, Jr.)


On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:33:49 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote in >:

>
>
> The Steve Fossett Airmans Search Project
>
>Yah know, it seems a pitiful thing indeed, that the great fraternity
>of his fellow airman have been unsuccessful in their search for their
>intrepid fellow, Steve Fossett. Initially those in authority directed
>the search and rescue operations immediately after his disappearance.
>They ordered all airmen/aircraft to remain outside the search area
>while they conducted their searches. Later, Google made satellite
>images available, so that the web community could add their zillions
>of Mark I Eyeballs to those flying the search missions. (Was there
>ever a search made of satellite photographs of the area taken during
>the appropriate time window to look for a smoke plume? Do such photos
>even exist?)
>
>With the recent judicial declaration of Mr. Fossett's legal demise,
>perhaps the time has finally arrived for those who would like to
>volunteer their time and resources to an Airmans Fellowship Search
>effort for the late Mr. Fossett.
>
>This effort could be massive if the spirit of airmen respect for
>Steve's broadening of the boundaries of human achievement can be
>tapped. A well throughout plan to coordinate and direct such an
>effort is essential, but more important are the skills and
>intelligence of the person to head it, and those under him/her. But
>I'd wager that there are plenty airmen among the readership of this
>newsgroup alone who possess the skills and resources to organize and
>execute the effort.
>
>Because we are free to draft the regulations, the unique qualities of
>the group could be enlisted for more diverse and specific operations
>than have been conducted to date. Searchers could get down lower if
>there were enough of them. Bush planes could be called in if ground
>search was appropriate.
>
>It has been suggested that the wreckage may lie at the bottom of a
>lake. Perhaps the web diving-community could be enlisted to organize
>a similar effort for searching the local lakes. Given Steve's
>apparent audacious já de viver, who knows, he could have been skipping
>his wheels on the glassy lake surface, and hit a swell. :-)
>
>For this effort to succeed it will require two things:
>
> 1. A viable plan of action implemented by the right people
>
> 2. A corps of willing volunteers who would find it an honor to
> participate
>
>
>
>Opinions?
>
>
>Suggestions?
>
>
>Sign up:
>
> Name:
> Location:
> Skills:
> Equipment:
> Availability:
>

[[email protected]]

On 17 Jun, 00:33, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> Well, it looks as though folks are still hopeful:
>
> New Fossett Search Efforts Planned For Summer Private Teams Will
> Concentrate On Two Areas Near Planned
> Destination
>

Thing about this is:

This project is looking for a corpse. Who cares? Well I can see
that perhaps his close relatives might, but otherwise if you want
unclaimed corpses there are plenty easier ones around.

The resources that it is proposed to use for this could in
my view be deployed in a more productive manner elsewhere.

What do you think Mr Fossett would have thought of spending
money looking for a desicated (or saturated) old corpse? By
now likely just a pile of bones.

By all means gather the cash, however give it to an Education
charity (perhaps in Africa), or a Cancer care charity, or a medical
research charity, or Bill Gates, or Google, or the state of Iowa.
Send it to Burma, somehow - make that happen instead.

Don't just **** it away. I doubt Mr Fossett would have
approved of that.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

wrote:
>
>What do you think Mr Fossett would have thought of spending
>money looking for a desicated (or saturated) old corpse? By
>now likely just a pile of bones.
>

Exactly. It's not only the money. Searches in difficult terrain also
involves risks to the searchers themselves.

I'll tell you right now, if I disappear and enough time has passed to
ensure that I'm not alive, don't bother looking. I promise I won't mind.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com