2008 SSA Convention Details ???

[Tim[_2_]]

Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
Usually RAS is full of post-convention

Some information I would love to hear about would be....

How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
Duckhawk update?
Anything else of interest?

Really, anythign will do...

EY (sitting here with Baby...)

[[email protected]]

On Feb 20, 6:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
> Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> Duckhawk update?
> Anything else of interest?
>
> Really, anythign will do...
>
> EY (sitting here with Baby...)

Tim,
OK..I will start this off with three topics. As is typical of many
conventions there were some very interesting seminars, discussions and
displays...

1. Winches - Due to the increasing cost of tows, there was a lot of
interest in winches. Two were on display on the convention floor and
there were two seminars on winch launching. Winch launching is
uncommon in the US and for any organization that considers buying a
winch, proper training with formalized procedures will be critical to
ensure successful winch launches. Safety will also be critical for a
successful operation and this was discussed by many of the experts. It
will be interesting to see if we see an influx of winches into the US
in the next few years.....

2. FLARM and collision avoidance - This was also a subject for
discussion. With approx 10,000 FLARM units sold worldwide it is
probably just a matter of time before we see these units in the US.
They appear to be effective in minimizing mid-airs between gliders and
they also warn gliders in Europe on towers and cables in the Alps. The
company (FLARM) will need FCC approval and they are working on some
legal/liability issues, but hopefully there will be US availability in
the near future.

3. Jonker JS1 Revelation - A seminar was held on this new 18M glider
by Attie Jonker. Unfortunately, one was not available for display, but
the presentation was excellent and Attie went into detail on the
development of this new, high performance competition sailplane.
Hopefully in a few months the first JS1 will arrive in the US....

I hope these first few topics get the "conversation" started on the
SSA Convention!
Renny - Albuquerque, NM

[Darryl Ramm]

I wrote up a brief summary of what interested me, available here:
http://www.mindensoaringclub.com

Flarm in the USA is just a matter of time, they basically announced
their intent to enter the USA market and are talking to potential
dealers, etc.

Darryl

On Feb 20, 5:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
> Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> Duckhawk update?
> Anything else of interest?
>
> Really, anythign will do...
>
> EY (sitting here with Baby...)

[K l e i n]

On Feb 20, 8:16*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> I wrote up a brief summary of what interested me, available here:http://www.mindensoaringclub.com
>
> Flarm in the USA is just a matter of time, they basically announced
> their intent to enter the USA market and are talking to potential
> dealers, etc.
>
> Darryl
>
> On Feb 20, 5:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> > convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> > convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> > Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> > Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> > How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> > Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> > Duckhawk update?
> > Anything else of interest?
>
> > Really, anythign will do...
>
> > EY (sitting here with Baby...)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

A couple of years ago I was PIC on a Citation descending into Reno.
ATC called out glider traffic. Me and my co-pilot were looking hard
but didn't see anything until......I saw it at my 9 o'clock, my
altitude, about 200 yards away. Too dang close!!

This makes me think that the only workable long term solution is that
gliders need to be doing the same thing everybody else is. Thus,
FLARM is a dead end. But hey, it's cheap and doesn't really hurt
anything. ADS-B does about the same thing but eventually everyone
will be doing that so that is where we need to end up. Meanwhile,
look for a lite, cheap, low-power, small transponder to use along with
a ZAON.

I attended the second half of the session Wednesday afternoon (late
arrival) and didn't hear anything that made me change my mind about
the above.

K l e i n

[Darryl Ramm]

If you read my write up about the convention you'll see I agree on
Transponders and PCAS. Flarm *might* have it's place as well (glider
to glider collision avoidance in contests/high glider traffic areas,
e.g. places like the White mountains). ADSB is the long term solution,
with such a long time until we see usable units in gliders that I
expect Flarm may get a beachhead in the USA. I'll buy a Flarm and see
for myself. If it discourages people adopting Transponders where they
should (and that's a lot more places than just Reno) then its a bad
thing. What would be interesting is a combined Zaon PCAS + Flarm unit.
People were asking about the possibility of this at the convention.

BTW I was flying a Duo Discus (with transponder installed and actually
turned on) coming south onto the north end of the Pinenuts when the
Hawker and ASG-29 collided, I spent a large part of that flight
discussing transponders with the other pilot flying in the Duo with
me. I was arguing pro, he was arguing did not make much difference. It
was a hell of a way to win an argument. My DG-303 and ASH-26E both
carry Becker transponders and Zaon MRX PCAS, and the club I used to be
a member of also had transponders in all of its gliders.


Darryl

On Feb 20, 8:18 pm, K l e i n > wrote:
> On Feb 20, 8:16 pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I wrote up a brief summary of what interested me, available here:http://www.mindensoaringclub.com
>
> > Flarm in the USA is just a matter of time, they basically announced
> > their intent to enter the USA market and are talking to potential
> > dealers, etc.
>
> > Darryl
>
> > On Feb 20, 5:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
>
> > > Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> > > convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> > > convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> > > Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> > > Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> > > How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> > > Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> > > Duckhawk update?
> > > Anything else of interest?
>
> > > Really, anythign will do...
>
> > > EY (sitting here with Baby...)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> A couple of years ago I was PIC on a Citation descending into Reno.
> ATC called out glider traffic. Me and my co-pilot were looking hard
> but didn't see anything until......I saw it at my 9 o'clock, my
> altitude, about 200 yards away. Too dang close!!
>
> This makes me think that the only workable long term solution is that
> gliders need to be doing the same thing everybody else is. Thus,
> FLARM is a dead end. But hey, it's cheap and doesn't really hurt
> anything. ADS-B does about the same thing but eventually everyone
> will be doing that so that is where we need to end up. Meanwhile,
> look for a lite, cheap, low-power, small transponder to use along with
> a ZAON.
>
> I attended the second half of the session Wednesday afternoon (late
> arrival) and didn't hear anything that made me change my mind about
> the above.
>
> K l e i n

[Frank Whiteley]

On Feb 20, 8:26 pm, wrote:
> On Feb 20, 6:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
>
> > Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> > convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> > convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> > Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> > Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> > How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> > Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> > Duckhawk update?
> > Anything else of interest?
>
> > Really, anythign will do...
>
> > EY (sitting here with Baby...)
>
> Tim,
> OK..I will start this off with three topics. As is typical of many
> conventions there were some very interesting seminars, discussions and
> displays...
>
> 1. Winches - Due to the increasing cost of tows, there was a lot of
> interest in winches. Two were on display on the convention floor and
> there were two seminars on winch launching. Winch launching is
> uncommon in the US and for any organization that considers buying a
> winch, proper training with formalized procedures will be critical to
> ensure successful winch launches. Safety will also be critical for a
> successful operation and this was discussed by many of the experts. It
> will be interesting to see if we see an influx of winches into the US
> in the next few years.....
>
> 2. FLARM and collision avoidance - This was also a subject for
> discussion. With approx 10,000 FLARM units sold worldwide it is
> probably just a matter of time before we see these units in the US.
> They appear to be effective in minimizing mid-airs between gliders and
> they also warn gliders in Europe on towers and cables in the Alps. The
> company (FLARM) will need FCC approval and they are working on some
> legal/liability issues, but hopefully there will be US availability in
> the near future.
>
> 3. Jonker JS1 Revelation - A seminar was held on this new 18M glider
> by Attie Jonker. Unfortunately, one was not available for display, but
> the presentation was excellent and Attie went into detail on the
> development of this new, high performance competition sailplane.
> Hopefully in a few months the first JS1 will arrive in the US....
>
> I hope these first few topics get the "conversation" started on the
> SSA Convention!
> Renny - Albuquerque, NM

On winching, insurance was a topic; roaming coverage for camps,
alternate locations, airport open houses, and air shows. Costello
Insurance and an AIG representative discuss product needs and
development during at least one breakfast and a luncheon. 'Hull'
coverage for the winches was also of interest. There were two
winching seminars and a discussion at the SSF meeting Weds evening.

There was also a round table discussion of a club audit by the IRS and
other club presentations. Why I instruct with Bob Wander was great.
Thanks also to Anne Mongiovi and Nieta Montague for their Promoting
Soaring presentations.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Jr Team talk by Kathy Fosha and Richard
Maleady and the discussions and ideas presented during the Getting
Kinds Into Soaring (Winch Roundtable) with Randy Rothe. The Good,
Bad, and Ugly, the state of soaring in 2008 with Bob Wander was
special. I'm not alone.

I think many enjoyed the evening trip to the SW Soaring Museum.
Missed the bus, so drove down and grabbed Bob Whelan and John Campbell
and headed for dinner on the way back. There are more in one or two
other buildings at the airport. At least one of the buses got
disoriented and had a tour in the dark of Moriarty Airport.

Pat Costello gave his always informative and enlightening insurance
talk. I missed the last few minutes and will have to follow up on a
couple of points that I heard about, one about winch liability.

Missed out on plenty due to being involved with Focus on Clubs track,
but good discussions and round tables there also. Others were very
pleased with the convention presentations overall. Enjoyed my fellow
banquet diners and seeing soaring friends. Interesting the banquet
speaker had arrived at the same actualizations about soaring that I
had, 'develop your bird brain' and 'be the sky' (well, he said 'be the
air'), but very much the same thing. He took a while to make the
points.

There were a couple of winch head dinners. Spent one evening chatting
with my Canadian cousins. They just love our politics.....

As always, too much to take it all in,

Frank Whiteley

[Greg Arnold]

What is the cost of a FLARM unit?


Darryl Ramm wrote:
> If you read my write up about the convention you'll see I agree on
> Transponders and PCAS. Flarm *might* have it's place as well (glider
> to glider collision avoidance in contests/high glider traffic areas,
> e.g. places like the White mountains). ADSB is the long term solution,
> with such a long time until we see usable units in gliders that I
> expect Flarm may get a beachhead in the USA. I'll buy a Flarm and see
> for myself. If it discourages people adopting Transponders where they
> should (and that's a lot more places than just Reno) then its a bad
> thing. What would be interesting is a combined Zaon PCAS + Flarm unit.
> People were asking about the possibility of this at the convention.
>
> BTW I was flying a Duo Discus (with transponder installed and actually
> turned on) coming south onto the north end of the Pinenuts when the
> Hawker and ASG-29 collided, I spent a large part of that flight
> discussing transponders with the other pilot flying in the Duo with
> me. I was arguing pro, he was arguing did not make much difference. It
> was a hell of a way to win an argument. My DG-303 and ASH-26E both
> carry Becker transponders and Zaon MRX PCAS, and the club I used to be
> a member of also had transponders in all of its gliders.
>
>
> Darryl
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Feb 20, 10:22 pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:
> What is the cost of a FLARM unit?
>
> Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > If you read my write up about the convention you'll see I agree on
> > Transponders and PCAS. Flarm *might* have it's place as well (glider
> > to glider collision avoidance in contests/high glider traffic areas,
> > e.g. places like the White mountains). ADSB is the long term solution,
> > with such a long time until we see usable units in gliders that I
> > expect Flarm may get a beachhead in the USA. I'll buy a Flarm and see
> > for myself. If it discourages people adopting Transponders where they
> > should (and that's a lot more places than just Reno) then its a bad
> > thing. What would be interesting is a combined Zaon PCAS + Flarm unit.
> > People were asking about the possibility of this at the convention.
>
> > BTW I was flying a Duo Discus (with transponder installed and actually
> > turned on) coming south onto the north end of the Pinenuts when the
> > Hawker and ASG-29 collided, I spent a large part of that flight
> > discussing transponders with the other pilot flying in the Duo with
> > me. I was arguing pro, he was arguing did not make much difference. It
> > was a hell of a way to win an argument. My DG-303 and ASH-26E both
> > carry Becker transponders and Zaon MRX PCAS, and the club I used to be
> > a member of also had transponders in all of its gliders.
>
> > Darryl

Greg,
The cost discussed was approx $ 845. for one unit. If a group got
together and ordered 10 or more, the price was estimated at $ 762.
This was based on the current Euro-$ exchange rate. Obviously this may
all change depending on their securing the needed US approvals,
working their legal/liability issues and securing dealers in the US,
but these were the tentative prices discussed at the convention...
Thanks - Renny

[[email protected]]

Darryl,

An excellent summary, thanks very much!

Bob

On Feb 20, 10:16 pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> I wrote up a brief summary of what interested me, available here:http://www.mindensoaringclub.com
>

[Mike Schumann]

I do not see FLARM in the US as it currently exists in Europe. However, a
FLARM type unit that is ADS-B compliant, and fits into the US ATC
architecture is definitely a possibility in the not too distant future.

The FLARM / ADS-B meeting resulted in some interesting information:

1. Cost is a critical issue, not just for the glider community, but also
for the GA market. FLARM has sold over 9,000 units, primarily in Europe,
due to their attractive pricing. An ADS-B compliant transceiver will need
to be priced <$1,000 to get widespread voluntary adoption in the US.

2. The collision threat in the US is different than in Europe. Europe is
much more concerned with glider - glider collisions. The FLARM guys had a
very interesting slide showing OLC traces for last year superimposed on a
map of Europe. Due to the ATC restrictions in Europe, there are very high
densities of glider operations, not only in the alps, but in much of the
airspace accessible to gliders in the rest of Europe. In the US, we have a
much bigger issue with VFR Power and IFR traffic that is intermixed with
glider operations.

3. While the aviation trade press discusses ADS-B as expensive, and far
into the future, this may be an overly pessimistic assessment. MITRE has
developed a low cost ADS-B transmitter that is the size of a pack of
cigarettes, has a parts cost of about $175, and runs for 14 hours on a set
of 4 AA batteries. They are currently working on a fully functional
transceiver that will not only transmit ADS-B position vectors, but also
receive TIS-B traffic and weather data from ground stations. This
transceiver will interface with most existing graphical devices (including
Garmin 396, 496, See-You Mobile running on a PDA, etc....) to display other
aircraft including altitude, direction, and speed. If the aircraft is
within range of an ADS-B ground station, the transceiver will not only show
other ADS-B equipped aircraft, but all Mode C and Mode S equipped traffic
that is broadcast by the FAA ground station. The MITRE transceiver should
be available by September 08 and will be available under license to any
avionics vendor who is interested in commercializing it.

4. Currently, ADS-B ground stations are deployed along the east coast from
Boston to FL, covering almost 1/3 of all VFR traffic. Within the next 2
years, additional stations will be deployed in the Gulf of Mexico, along the
West Coast and in the Midwest (see www.adsb.gov for more details). Once
ADS-B transceivers are available at reasonable cost, voluntary deployment in
these areas can be expected to be rapid.

5. Contrary to popular belief, FLARM is not capable of reliably warning of
collision hazards between gliders flying in close proximity in a gaggle.
This is a result of accuracy limits available from commercial grade GPS
chips used in FLARM devices, as well as the speed with which a collision can
occur when there is an unexpected excursion from a glider's trajectory.
This will also be a limiting factor for low cost ADS-B transceivers. Even
with WAAS compatible aviation grade GPS components, the accuracy of ADS-B or
FLARM devices will not solve the gaggle problem.

6. One of the biggest challenges to the availability of low cost, low power
ADS-B transceivers will be regulatory issues relating to GPS accuracy and
integrity, and the necessity for certification of ADS-B transmitters. The
proposed ADS-B rules currently out for comments in the FAA's NPRM are
totally focused on IFR traffic requirements in high density Class B and
Class C airspaces. Provisions will have to be made in the ADS-B rules for
VFR only ADS-B transceivers for manufacturer's to hit the magic $1K price
ceiling.

Mike Schumann


"Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
...
>
> I wrote up a brief summary of what interested me, available here:
> http://www.mindensoaringclub.com
>
> Flarm in the USA is just a matter of time, they basically announced
> their intent to enter the USA market and are talking to potential
> dealers, etc.
>
> Darryl
>
> On Feb 20, 5:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
>> Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
>> convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
>> convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
>> Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>>
>> Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>>
>> How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
>> Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
>> Duckhawk update?
>> Anything else of interest?
>>
>> Really, anythign will do...
>>
>> EY (sitting here with Baby...)
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Tim[_2_]]

Thanks Renny and Darryl and Mike. Very good writeups of things and
issues at the convention. Almost made me feel I was there - except no
great NM green chile dinners!

On Feb 20, 9:16*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> I wrote up a brief summary of what interested me, available here:http://www.mindensoaringclub.com
>
> Flarm in the USA is just a matter of time, they basically announced
> their intent to enter the USA market and are talking to potential
> dealers, etc.
>
> Darryl
>
> On Feb 20, 5:54 pm, Tim > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> > convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> > convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> > Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> > Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> > How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> > Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> > Duckhawk update?
> > Anything else of interest?
>
> > Really, anythign will do...
>
> > EY (sitting here with Baby...)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[aviationnut]

On Feb 20, 11:40*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:

What would be interesting is a combined Zaon PCAS + Flarm unit.
> People were asking about the possibility of this at the convention.
>
>

Actually, the Flarm presenter said he was going to meet up with the
ZAON people at the convention and discuss it.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 20, 7:54*pm, Tim > wrote:
> Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> convention...


From my perspective... I only attended 2 presentations; The Perlin
Project, which was unreal in a sense. The flying discussed was
amazing as was the hardware. Surfing the polar vortex? Incredible.
Also strange that one of the participants was not present and has
recently been declared dead. Big surprise was how far they've come in
putting together the phase 2 pressurized sailplane. Looking for
sponsors now that Steve is gone.

The other presentation I attended was Wanders "good bad and ugly" or
whatever it was called. 2 important points from this. 1. the
"optimist dingy" sailboat class as a model for what soaring could do
to get new young people involved. Personally I have a big axe to
grind on this subject as I think sailplanes are too damn expensive.
The Soaring into the Future thread last month on this forum began to
address this and many of those posters met informally at the
convention on this topic. I had no idea Wander was thinking along
these lines and I was glad to hear it. I suspect that most at Wanders
presention thought it was cute but already have sailplanes so don't
really get it.
2. Wander has suggested that the SSA is doing fine at Hobbs without an
executive director and DOESN'T NEED ONE! Instead, occasional experts
can be hired as needed to solve problems. One person I talked with
after the presentation thought it was Wanders self serving plan to
provide himself with choice employment opportunities down the road but
anyone who knows Bob would think that laughable. His only interest
lately seems to be hanging about on sailboats! He IS very protective
of the staff at Hobbs and is sick of seeing them get beat up by
directors.

One very impressive display was the almost completed remanufactured
new antique Schleicher #50. Someone should post photos!

The rest of the time I spent meeting people, getting re-acquainted,
introducing people, including my 3, twenty-something pals from Iowa
who had a GREAT time and were great company. (you guys make me look
good), telling and hearing stories... It was a groovy time and to
each of you I was lucky to spend a few minutes with, Thanks!
Matt Michael

[[email protected]]

Yes Matt, the SSA Convention was great. I had a blast visiting with
everybody. Manning the SSF booth again this year gave us the great
opportunity to meet and greet with glider pilots from all over. Our
trip back was pretty notable, and thankfully Chris has gotten the
pictures and the story all put together. RAS folks will certainly
enjoy it, here it is:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cuhl/ssa08/ssatriphome.html

wrote:
> On Feb 20, 7:54�pm, Tim > wrote:
> > Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> > convention...
>
>
> From my perspective... I only attended 2 presentations; The Perlin
> Project, which was unreal in a sense. The flying discussed was
> amazing as was the hardware. Surfing the polar vortex? Incredible.
> Also strange that one of the participants was not present and has
> recently been declared dead. Big surprise was how far they've come in
> putting together the phase 2 pressurized sailplane. Looking for
> sponsors now that Steve is gone.
>
> The other presentation I attended was Wanders "good bad and ugly" or
> whatever it was called. 2 important points from this. 1. the
> "optimist dingy" sailboat class as a model for what soaring could do
> to get new young people involved. Personally I have a big axe to
> grind on this subject as I think sailplanes are too damn expensive.
> The Soaring into the Future thread last month on this forum began to
> address this and many of those posters met informally at the
> convention on this topic. I had no idea Wander was thinking along
> these lines and I was glad to hear it. I suspect that most at Wanders
> presention thought it was cute but already have sailplanes so don't
> really get it.
> 2. Wander has suggested that the SSA is doing fine at Hobbs without an
> executive director and DOESN'T NEED ONE! Instead, occasional experts
> can be hired as needed to solve problems. One person I talked with
> after the presentation thought it was Wanders self serving plan to
> provide himself with choice employment opportunities down the road but
> anyone who knows Bob would think that laughable. His only interest
> lately seems to be hanging about on sailboats! He IS very protective
> of the staff at Hobbs and is sick of seeing them get beat up by
> directors.
>
> One very impressive display was the almost completed remanufactured
> new antique Schleicher #50. Someone should post photos!
>
> The rest of the time I spent meeting people, getting re-acquainted,
> introducing people, including my 3, twenty-something pals from Iowa
> who had a GREAT time and were great company. (you guys make me look
> good), telling and hearing stories... It was a groovy time and to
> each of you I was lucky to spend a few minutes with, Thanks!
> Matt Michael

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

Thanks from this Soaring Safety Foundation (SSF) Trustee to Matt
Michael and Tony Condon (The "Cherokee Kid") for staffing the SSF
booth at the SSA Convention. Both guys are valuable resources as SSF
Advisors to the SSF Trustees, and congrats to Tony for coming aboard
as our newest SSF Advisor. We couldn't accomplish the SSF Training
and Safety programs without you! For info on the SSF programs go to
www.soaringsafety.org

It was our annual reunion, as always. Kathie, Cozy Dog and I enjoyed
meeting and greeting old friends from around the world, making new
ones, especially the enthusiast lads from Utah and Iowa that made the
nonstop drive with their soaring mentors, Matt and Tony.

The future of soaring was at the SSA Convention - - did you meet them?
You could also chat with the enthusiastic "winch heads" and the
ultralight glider folks, the self-launch gents and the Women Soaring
Pilots, among the soaring tribes represented.

The history of soaring in America was also there, including our
National Soaring Museum and the Vintage Sailplane Association. Our
mentors past and present were accessible to talk with including Dick
Johnson, Bob Wander, "Big John" Brittingham, Jim Short, Walt Cannon,
Bernald Smith, George Applebay, and so many more.

All of the SSA Staff, carefully managed by our Executive - whatever
her title is / give her a promotion - Denise Layton, were terrific.
New kid on the SSA Staff Kathy Pope stepped in during the recent
months to manage the Convention details, and fixed things or held her
ground on some minor complaints. The Albuquerque local soaring club
folks were there in support.

So your 26 SSA Directors have voted (over a year ago) that we will not
have another full SSA Convention until 2010, date and place currently
unknown, but bids are being considered. SSA Director Cindy Brickner
assures me we may have some sort of "symposium" supported by a region
or a club, but not necessarily by the SSA, with no sailplanes, no
vendors, per the SSA Directors. Sounds a bit dry, but we'll make the
best of it, and I bet Cindy will beat the drum to get started on
organizing our future gatherings. Contact your SSA Regional Director
to learn more, or volunteer to organize some gatherings,seminars, even
a convention.

In the meantime we'll continue to make our own fun down in the
mountains of southwest Texas between now and 2010, including our
upcoming spring Wave Camp / Dedication of the NSM National Landmark of
Soaring and our "Follow the Sun / Endless Summer" soaring safari's.

Finally, besides the personalities and the seminars at ABQ, I had some
wonderful sailplanes to look at, and took a rather large one home to
Marfa. It flies great.
My "last sailplane".

Thanks to all my friends for your encouragement. See you in 2010, if
not much sooner!

Burt
Marfa, west Texas: Where yesterday's "USA Today" arrives tomorrow.

[Pat Russell]

Did anybody record anything?

Audio?
Video?
CDs?
Podcasts?
Tapes?

[Dan G]

On Feb 23, 2:43*am, Pat Russell > wrote:
> Did anybody record anything?
>
> Audio?
> Video?
> CDs?
> Podcasts?
> Tapes?

Even just some pictures would keep me happy. Did anyone just wander
around with a camera snapping interesting stuff, and now wants to put
the results on flickr.com?


Dan

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Feb 24, 5:47*am, Dan G > wrote:
> On Feb 23, 2:43*am, Pat Russell > wrote:
> Even just some pictures would keep me happy...

I took a bunch of design detail photos, probably not what you're
looking for:

http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_19_feb_08.htm

Thanks, Bob K.

[Dan G]

On 24 Feb, 15:06, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> On Feb 24, 5:47*am, Dan G > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 23, 2:43*am, Pat Russell > wrote:
> > Even just some pictures would keep me happy...
>
> I took a bunch of design detail photos, probably not what you're
> looking for:
>
> http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_19_feb_08.htm
>
> Thanks, Bob K.

Thanks, that was quite interesting and better than nothing.

On a wider note, it's quite possible to make conferences accessible
for more than just those who can go. Presentations can be put on the
web as ppt or pdfs, and audio of the presentation can be recorded and
distributed as a podcast (much more can be done -- live streaming,
video podcasts etc. but that's all trickier to execute and not really
needed).

It's a shame more conferences don't provide "remote coverage" in this
way. Yes, much of what a conference is about is the face-to-face chats
and networking, but saving the presentations in this way would be of
benefit to people who attended and want to look up details afterwards
too, I bet.

Ah well, I can dream...


Dan

[Frank Whiteley]

On Feb 25, 5:53 am, Dan G > wrote:
> On 24 Feb, 15:06, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 24, 5:47 am, Dan G > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 23, 2:43 am, Pat Russell > wrote:
> > > Even just some pictures would keep me happy...
>
> > I took a bunch of design detail photos, probably not what you're
> > looking for:
>
> >http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_19_feb_08.htm
>
> > Thanks, Bob K.
>
> Thanks, that was quite interesting and better than nothing.
>
> On a wider note, it's quite possible to make conferences accessible
> for more than just those who can go. Presentations can be put on the
> web as ppt or pdfs, and audio of the presentation can be recorded and
> distributed as a podcast (much more can be done -- live streaming,
> video podcasts etc. but that's all trickier to execute and not really
> needed).
>
> It's a shame more conferences don't provide "remote coverage" in this
> way. Yes, much of what a conference is about is the face-to-face chats
> and networking, but saving the presentations in this way would be of
> benefit to people who attended and want to look up details afterwards
> too, I bet.
>
> Ah well, I can dream...
>
> Dan

I agree we should be sure the 2010 convention has recorded sessions,
and we may have a budget. Ping Promotion & Development Committee.

There are some images of the winches in the winchdesign yahoo group
for those interested in winching.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

Heres some pictures I took of the Cherokee II and Cherokee RM at the
Southwest Soaring Museum. Ive got some pictures of the Rhonbussard on
my camera at home, just need to get enough of a break from school to
get them uploaded.

http://picasaweb.google.com/vontresc/Museum

[mike]

On Feb 26, 4:45 pm, wrote:
> Heres some pictures I took of the Cherokee II and Cherokee RM at the
> Southwest Soaring Museum. Ive got some pictures of the Rhonbussard on
> my camera at home, just need to get enough of a break from school to
> get them uploaded.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/vontresc/Museum

That Cherokee RM won the Moriarty club XC award one year. When it was
being flown regularly the wing skins were smoother. There was one
particular area in the leading edge that was bad, but once in the sun,
the leading edge would smooth out a bit and would not have the dips
you can see now.

[HoUdini]

OCSA has a report on the 2008 SSA Convention at:

http://www.ocsoaring.org/reports.htm

HU



On Feb 20, 7:54*pm, Tim > wrote:
> Come on now, what where some of the highlights from this year's
> convention for those of us stuck at home for various reasons. With no
> convention next year, there should have been a lot of "new" stuff.
> Usually RAS is full of post-convention
>
> Some information I would love to hear about would be....
>
> How'd the Flarm/ADS-B forum go?
> Extreme Performance/Sinha De-turbulator update?
> Duckhawk update?
> Anything else of interest?
>
> Really, anythign will do...
>
> EY (sitting here with Baby...)