LibHawk Down

[gatt[_2_]]

"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
and Pakistan.

Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "

WTF?! Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
and recovered?



-c

[Typhoon502]

On Feb 21, 3:39*pm, "gatt" > wrote:
> *"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> and Pakistan.
>
> Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
>
> WTF?! *Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> and recovered?

I dunno, but I bet Kerry puts in for a medal over it.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
> "WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> and Pakistan.

> Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "

> WTF?! Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> and recovered?

How do you know they weren't?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[eyeball]

they made it...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080221/ap_on_go_co/senators_emergency_landing
On Feb 21, 4:35*pm, wrote:
> In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
>
> > *"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> > and Pakistan.
> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
> > WTF?! *Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> > and recovered?
>
> How do you know they weren't?
>
> --
> Jim Pennino
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[gatt[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:

>> WTF?! Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
>> and recovered?
>
> How do you know they weren't?

How do we know they were?

-c

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:

> >> WTF?! Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> >> and recovered?
> >
> > How do you know they weren't?

> How do we know they were?

I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[gatt[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:

>> > How do you know they weren't?
>
>> How do we know they were?
>
> I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
> any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.

I figured they might as likely have press a la Geraldo Rivera dogging them
the whole way.

-c

[Mr.Smartypants[_2_]]

On Feb 21, 1:39*pm, "gatt" > wrote:
> *"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> and Pakistan.
>
> Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
>
> WTF?! *Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> and recovered?
>
> -c

The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.

You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
actual danger.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:

> >> > How do you know they weren't?
> >
> >> How do we know they were?
> >
> > I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
> > any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.

> I figured they might as likely have press a la Geraldo Rivera dogging them
> the whole way.

I doubt they could get cell service in the mountains of Afghanistan and
that the troops would let them make such a call if one of the party was
that stupid.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants > wrote:
> On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" > wrote:
> > ?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> > and Pakistan.
> >
> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
> >
> > WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> > and recovered?
> >
> > -c

> The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.

> You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
> actual danger.

They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.

While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Ian B MacLure]

"gatt" > wrote in
:

> Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware,
> respectively, and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "

They wouldn't be missed.

IBM

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:39:41 -0800, "gatt" >
wrote in >:

> "WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
>made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.




Follow up: http://www.wtop.com/?nid=116&sid=1349495

No one was injured, Kerry said. The senators and their delegation
returned to Bagram Air Base in a motor convoy, and left for Turkey.
They had been visiting some foward firebases in Afghanistan before the
emergency landing.

"The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
there, and we all agreed."

Kerry said the lawmakers were lucky because there happened to be a
road nearby.

"We sat up there and traded stories," Kerry joked. "We were going to
send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have
to do it."

Added Kerry: "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."

"We were fine," said Kerry. "The pilots were outstanding. The military
handled it superbly ... It was as clean and as smooth as any landing
anywhere."

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> "The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
> pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
> pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
> there, and we all agreed."

I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Keith Willshaw[_3_]]

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
>
>> >> > How do you know they weren't?
>> >
>> >> How do we know they were?
>> >
>> > I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
>> > any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.
>
>> I figured they might as likely have press a la Geraldo Rivera dogging
>> them
>> the whole way.
>
> I doubt they could get cell service in the mountains of Afghanistan and
> that the troops would let them make such a call if one of the party was
> that stupid.
>

Many of the press have satphones these days.

Keith

[tscottme]

Apparently John Kerry used his sat phone and quickly received permission
from the world community before landing was authorized.

--

Scott

"Obama is a state-of-the-art B.S. artist who tells everybody what they want
to hear. Everybody loves him because they think he agrees with them, but
that's because he has spent his whole adult life not telling anybody what he
really thinks."
http://tinyurl.com/yok662

[Denny]

>
>
>
> <political crap snipped>

Hey guys, wrong list for political posturing.. Lets keep it clean in
here and only stoop to calling each other stupid, or other terms of
endearment, on aviation issues...

denny

[Dan[_2_]]

Denny wrote:
>>
>>
>> <political crap snipped>
>
> Hey guys, wrong list for political posturing.. Lets keep it clean in
> here and only stoop to calling each other stupid, or other terms of
> endearment, on aviation issues...
>
> denny

Good luck.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[George Z. Bush]

Denny wrote:
>> <political crap snipped>
>
> Hey guys, wrong list for political posturing.. Lets keep it clean in
> here and only stoop to calling each other stupid, or other terms of
> endearment, on aviation issues...
>
Denny, having been accused many times in the past of having been a
self-appointed nanny for r.a.m., it's a real plerasure for me to be able to
unload that accolade into your lap. As I was often asked on those
occasions, when was the election or did I simply miss it?

The story did in fact have aviation content, evolving out of a forced
landing in Afghanistan due to weather.....can't get much more aviation than
that. The fact that there were three US senators involved is what made it
newsworthy and it's hard to mention a US senator without involving politics.

So, for whatever it's worth, just hold your nose and move on when it
inevitably occurs or as more than one female has been told (however true it
might be), if rape is unavoidable, you might as well relax and enjoy it.
Your choice.

George Z.

PS - I usually don't cross-post, but I made an exception in this case
because I wanted to make sure that you didn't somehow miss my response.

[William Hung[_2_]]

On Feb 22, 7:45*am, Denny > wrote:
> > <political crap snipped>
>
> Hey guys, wrong list for political posturing.. *Lets keep it clean in
> here and only stoop to calling each other stupid, or other terms of
> endearment, on aviation issues...
>
> denny

Did Larry put you up to this? <g>

Wil

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting Keith Willshaw > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
> >
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
> >
> >> >> > How do you know they weren't?
> >> >
> >> >> How do we know they were?
> >> >
> >> > I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
> >> > any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.
> >
> >> I figured they might as likely have press a la Geraldo Rivera dogging
> >> them
> >> the whole way.
> >
> > I doubt they could get cell service in the mountains of Afghanistan and
> > that the troops would let them make such a call if one of the party was
> > that stupid.
> >

> Many of the press have satphones these days.

Many of the troops telling them "no phone calls" have guns.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Jim Logajan]

Bob Noel > wrote:
> I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
> blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.

Kerry explicitly said "...So the pilot exercised his judgment...."

I believe Kerry has a commercial certificate. Likewise instrument, glider,
and seaplane ratings. And has flown since 1966.

I'm pretty sure he understands who had PIC authority and nothing in the
story suggests otherwise.

[George Z. Bush]

Jim Logajan wrote:
> Bob Noel > wrote:
>> I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
>> blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.
>
> Kerry explicitly said "...So the pilot exercised his judgment...."
>
> I believe Kerry has a commercial certificate. Likewise instrument, glider,
> and seaplane ratings. And has flown since 1966.
>
> I'm pretty sure he understands who had PIC authority and nothing in the
> story suggests otherwise.

Just another blowhard who couldn't resist trying to smear someone he smeared
in the past even though the smearee isn't even running for office in the
next election. Doesn't say much for the **** thrower, does it!

George Z.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Jim Logajan > wrote:

> Bob Noel > wrote:
> > I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
> > blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.
>
> Kerry explicitly said "...So the pilot exercised his judgment...."
>
> I believe Kerry has a commercial certificate. Likewise instrument, glider,
> and seaplane ratings. And has flown since 1966.
>
> I'm pretty sure he understands who had PIC authority and nothing in the
> story suggests otherwise.

"So the pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
there, and we all agreed."

I guess it depends on the way you parse and emphasize the words. To me
the "we all agreed" (assuming it's actually a quote) implies agreement *prior* to
landing.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Jim Logajan]

Bob Noel > wrote:
> In article >,
> Jim Logajan > wrote:
>
>> Bob Noel > wrote:
>> > I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
>> > blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.
>>
>> Kerry explicitly said "...So the pilot exercised his judgment...."
>>
>> I believe Kerry has a commercial certificate. Likewise instrument,
>> glider, and seaplane ratings. And has flown since 1966.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure he understands who had PIC authority and nothing in
>> the story suggests otherwise.
>
> "So the pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting
> down there, and we all agreed."
>
> I guess it depends on the way you parse and emphasize the words. To
> me the "we all agreed" (assuming it's actually a quote) implies
> agreement *prior* to landing.

Not much to parse, IMVHO. The PIC appears to have asked his passengers for
their opinions, which is his perogative as PIC. If the statement had read
"So the pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
there, even though we all disagreed," it would (hopefully) have more
clearly indicated Kerry knew who was in charge of the flight.

[Blueskies]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>> "The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
>> pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
>> pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
>> there, and we all agreed."
>
> I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
> blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> (goodness, please trim replies!!!)
>

This was not a civilian flight. The pilot did need someone's permission...

[[email protected]]

On Feb 23, 11:24 am, "Blueskies" >
wrote:

>
> This was not a civilian flight. The pilot did need someone's permission...

Hunh? What does that mean?

[tomcervo]

On Feb 21, 10:40�pm, Bob Noel >
wrote:
> I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
> blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.

Maybe, since two of the three were vets and all know how power works,
were on record backing up the pilot's decision in case it came up in
his next review.

[tankfixer]

In article >,
says...
> "WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> and Pakistan.
>
> Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
>
> WTF?! Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> and recovered?

No....

;')

[tankfixer]

In article <6e4b68fc-efe7-4ac7-bd16-
>, says...
> On Feb 21, 3:39*pm, "gatt" > wrote:
> > *"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft..,
> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> > and Pakistan.
> >
> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
> >
> > WTF?! *Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> > and recovered?
>
> I dunno, but I bet Kerry puts in for a medal over it.

ouch....

[tankfixer]

In article <23457206-711b-420c-b44d-7d7122c75f08
@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, says...
> On Feb 21, 1:39*pm, "gatt" > wrote:
> > *"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft..,
> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> > and Pakistan.
> >
> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
> >
> > WTF?! *Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> > and recovered?
> >
> > -c
>
> The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.
>
> You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
> actual danger.


Report I saw said they returned to Kabul by ground convoy.

[tankfixer]

In article >,
says...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
> >
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In rec.aviation.piloting gatt > wrote:
> >
> >> >> > How do you know they weren't?
> >> >
> >> >> How do we know they were?
> >> >
> >> > I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
> >> > any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.
> >
> >> I figured they might as likely have press a la Geraldo Rivera dogging
> >> them
> >> the whole way.
> >
> > I doubt they could get cell service in the mountains of Afghanistan and
> > that the troops would let them make such a call if one of the party was
> > that stupid.
> >
>
> Many of the press have satphones these days.

And would eat said phone if they attempted to use it in a situation like
this.

[tankfixer]

In article >,
says...
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:39:41 -0800, "gatt" >
> wrote in >:
>
> > "WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> >made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
>
>
>
>
> Follow up: http://www.wtop.com/?nid=116&sid=1349495
>
> No one was injured, Kerry said. The senators and their delegation
> returned to Bagram Air Base in a motor convoy, and left for Turkey.
> They had been visiting some foward firebases in Afghanistan before the
> emergency landing.
>
> "The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
> pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
> pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
> there, and we all agreed."

Kerry actually thinks he had a choice ?
He is dumber than I thought.


>
> Kerry said the lawmakers were lucky because there happened to be a
> road nearby.
>
> "We sat up there and traded stories," Kerry joked. "We were going to
> send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have
> to do it."

Typical.



>
> Added Kerry: "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
>
> "We were fine," said Kerry. "The pilots were outstanding. The military
> handled it superbly ... It was as clean and as smooth as any landing
> anywhere."
>
>

[Big John[_2_]]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:04 GMT, wrote:

>In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants > wrote:
>> On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" > wrote:
>> > ?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
>> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
>> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
>> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
>> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
>> > and Pakistan.
>> >
>> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
>> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
>> >
>> > WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
>> > and recovered?
>> >
>> > -c
>
>> The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.
>
>> You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
>> actual danger.
>
>They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
>were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.
>
>While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
>flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.

************************************************** *****************

Please explain to me how a fighter could fly air cover in Wx so bad
that a chopper had to land?

Also Fighters fly in at lest a element not singly.

Sounds like some press had a dead line to make and not time to get
facts straight.

Or maybe the fighter was a sim mission, eh ! Mx?


Big John

[Big John[_2_]]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:40:34 -0500, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>> "The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
>> pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
>> pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
>> there, and we all agreed."
>
>I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
>blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.


************************************************** *****

I guess you haven't had any experience hauling Congressmen around in
Military aurcraft? Especially out in the boon docks?


Big John

[[email protected]]

Big John > wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:04 GMT, wrote:

> >In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants > wrote:
> >> On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" > wrote:
> >> > ?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
> >> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
> >> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
> >> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
> >> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
> >> > and Pakistan.
> >> >
> >> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
> >> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
> >> >
> >> > WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
> >> > and recovered?
> >> >
> >> > -c
> >
> >> The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.
> >
> >> You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
> >> actual danger.
> >
> >They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
> >were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.
> >
> >While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
> >flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.

> ************************************************** *****************

> Please explain to me how a fighter could fly air cover in Wx so bad
> that a chopper had to land?

Are you asking me or the Associated Press?

I would guess because loaded helicopters are more altitude limited than
F-16's and they were in the mountains.

> Also Fighters fly in at lest a element not singly.

Then I guess you need to fire off an indignant letter to AP press
writer Andrew Miga who wrote the AP story and set him straight.

Either that, or an indignant letter to John Kerry who provided the
information to AP in a telephone interview.

> Sounds like some press had a dead line to make and not time to get
> facts straight.

Or maybe since they were close to Bagram Air Base, no one felt the need
for a bunch of fighters in the air.

Or maybe Kerry didn't know how may F-16's were in the air; write to
him and grill him thoroughly until you get an answer.

> Or maybe the fighter was a sim mission, eh ! Mx?

Bite me.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Big John[_2_]]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:25:03 GMT, wrote:

>Big John > wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:04 GMT, wrote:
>
>> >In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants > wrote:
>> >> On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" > wrote:
>> >> > ?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
>> >> > made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
>> >> > Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
>> >> > according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
>> >> > The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
>> >> > and Pakistan.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
>> >> > and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "
>> >> >
>> >> > WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
>> >> > and recovered?
>> >> >
>> >> > -c
>> >
>> >> The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.
>> >
>> >> You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
>> >> actual danger.
>> >
>> >They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
>> >were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.
>> >
>> >While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
>> >flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.
>
>> ************************************************** *****************
>
>> Please explain to me how a fighter could fly air cover in Wx so bad
>> that a chopper had to land?
>
>Are you asking me or the Associated Press?
>
>I would guess because loaded helicopters are more altitude limited than
>F-16's and they were in the mountains.
>
>> Also Fighters fly in at lest a element not singly.
>
>Then I guess you need to fire off an indignant letter to AP press
>writer Andrew Miga who wrote the AP story and set him straight.
>
>Either that, or an indignant letter to John Kerry who provided the
>information to AP in a telephone interview.
>
>> Sounds like some press had a dead line to make and not time to get
>> facts straight.
>
>Or maybe since they were close to Bagram Air Base, no one felt the need
>for a bunch of fighters in the air.
>
>Or maybe Kerry didn't know how may F-16's were in the air; write to
>him and grill him thoroughly until you get an answer.
>
>> Or maybe the fighter was a sim mission, eh ! Mx?
>
>Bite me.


************************************************** *********

Quoting you.

"While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation".

Unquote.

Since you seemed to know it all (quote) "as would be expected for
such a situation" (unquote) I simply asked some technical questions
which I guess you don't have the answers to???? so you now want to
pass the buck.

If you are going to put your name to patently erroneous data, you
should be prepared to qualify the data or say this is what was
reported and by whom. We would then know you were not setting yourself
up as a expert on what happened thousands of miles away.

More questions, since you believe everything in the media or from the
mouths of politicians. What kind of a Chopper was it and how many
'troops' were aboard to form a perimeter?

Were there two choppers, one with the VIP's and one with a squad or so
of troops for security.

This is how I would have scheduled the mission. It would have given
100% back up of equipment and safety.

Why should I stoop so low to bite you? I don't suffer or bite fools.


Big John

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Big John > wrote:

> >I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
> >blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.
>
>
> ************************************************** *****
>
> I guess you haven't had any experience hauling Congressmen around in
> Military aurcraft? Especially out in the boon docks?

True. When first reading about this event, I couldn't help thinking
about the Ron Brown "accident". Fortunately, the pilot didn't repeat
that mistake.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Big John[_2_]]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:49:40 -0500, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Big John > wrote:
>
>> >I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
>> >blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.
>>
>>
>> ************************************************** *****
>>
>> I guess you haven't had any experience hauling Congressmen around in
>> Military aurcraft? Especially out in the boon docks?
>
>True. When first reading about this event, I couldn't help thinking
>about the Ron Brown "accident". Fortunately, the pilot didn't repeat
>that mistake.


************************************************** *

Bob

Agree. We have been losing about one bird a year in Afghanistan due
to Wx.

Re: Mickey Leland

Congressman Leland was on a boon doggle in Africa and was scheduled to
fly on a local aircraft to a isolated refuge camp in Ethiopia during a
period of marginal Wx.

The pilot was a local and pointed out that the flight should not be
attempted. An initial report of accident by a local reporter stated
that Leland put pressure on Pilot to attempt flight against the pilots
better judgement. Of course Wx was worse than forecast and bird flew
into a cloud with a rock inside and crashed and Leland and all 15
aboard died.

I submitted a FOI to get that bit of data on pressure and only thing
that was released was the Embassy report of accident and death of
Leland and statement that accident investigation would be run by
Ethiopia not USA so congressional pressure has been hidden again in
this case. With what we give Ethiopia no way would they besmirch
Leland.


I have also heard from congressman "we vote you (Air Force) millions
of dollars for your operations and equipment and you can't fly if
there is a cloud in the sky".

Also complaints if there was not booze and gourmet food aboard. No box
lunches for them.


Big John

[[email protected]]

Big John > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:25:03 GMT, wrote:


> Quoting you.

> "While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
> flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation".

> Unquote.

> Since you seemed to know it all (quote) "as would be expected for
> such a situation" (unquote) I simply asked some technical questions
> which I guess you don't have the answers to???? so you now want to
> pass the buck.

The first part was directly paraphrased from the AP article.

The second part was based on 30 years in the Army.

What would you expect the troops to do stranded in hostile territory
with a bunch of civilians and VIP's, curl up in The fetal position and sob?

> If you are going to put your name to patently erroneous data, you
> should be prepared to qualify the data or say this is what was
> reported and by whom. We would then know you were not setting yourself
> up as a expert on what happened thousands of miles away.

You could always read the AP article yourself, then get back to me
on that snide "patently erroneous data" remark.

> More questions, since you believe everything in the media or from the
> mouths of politicians. What kind of a Chopper was it and how many
> 'troops' were aboard to form a perimeter?

The article didn't say.

And you can stuff that "since you believe everything in the media or from
the mouths of politicians" remark up your ass.

> Were there two choppers, one with the VIP's and one with a squad or so
> of troops for security.

According to the article, which you obviously have still failed to read,
there were at least two; one with the VIP's and one with the VIP
staff.


> This is how I would have scheduled the mission. It would have given
> 100% back up of equipment and safety.

It is a good thing you weren't in charge.

Command requires thinking, not emotional outbursts based on wild ass
supposition, such as I didn't read the AP report.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:25:04 GMT, wrote in
>:

>You could always read the AP article yourself,

Are you able to provide a link to the article to which you refer?

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:25:04 GMT, wrote in
> >:

> >You could always read the AP article yourself,

> Are you able to provide a link to the article to which you refer?

Google Afghanistan helicopter Karry Associated Press; 17,100 hits.

Take your pick.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:25:04 GMT, wrote in
>:

>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:25:04 GMT, wrote in
>> >:
>
>> >You could always read the AP article yourself,
>
>> Are you able to provide a link to the article to which you refer?
>
>Google Afghanistan helicopter Karry Associated Press; 17,100 hits.
>
>Take your pick.

Sure enough:

http://www.startribune.com/nation/15845852.html
Kerry, the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, said the group
waited for about three hours until a convoy with American troops
took them to Bagram Air Base. There was a perimeter guard and an
F-16 fighter overhead providing cover, he said.

If Kerry's account is accurate, one could infer, that F16s are
equipped to provide cover in all weather conditions. Who knew?

[Big John[_2_]]

Ken

----clip----

>The first part was directly paraphrased from the AP article.

If you had so stated I would never have taken you to task.
>
>The second part was based on 30 years in the Army.

I too spent some time in Army.

Trained in:

Infantry.
Engineers.
Field Arty.
Cavalry.
Qualified on Automatic Weapons, '03 & M-1 and 45.
H-19 (Recon) & Huey (C&C)
AAC trainers and Fighters.
Going to Founders Day Dinner this Saturday to commensurate with my
Army buddies that are still alive.

----clip----

>> If you are going to put your name to patently erroneous data, you
>> should be prepared to qualify the data or say this is what was
>> reported and by whom. We would then know you were not setting yourself
>> up as a expert on what happened thousands of miles away.
>
>You could always read the AP article yourself, then get back to me
>on that snide "patently erroneous data" remark.

Why do you think the AP article is factual. 90% of the time where I
have historical knowledge of a subject I find that the media is wrong.
Since they have a history of promulgating falsehoods they are not a
good source of facts unless you like to be led around by your nose.

----clip----


>And you can stuff that "since you believe everything in the media or from
>the mouths of politicians" remark up your ass.

I find that individuals who have to use cuss words are insecure and
lack the ability to think coherently.

----clip----

>It is a good thing you weren't in charge.
>
>Command requires thinking, not emotional outbursts based on wild ass
>supposition, such as I didn't read the AP report.

Again you just love to cuss one out. Insecurity at the kindergarten
level.. If you read prior postings you will see that you are the only
one who has demonstrated any emotional outbursts.

And a good day to thee sir.


Big John

[[email protected]]

Big John > wrote:
> Ken

> ----clip----

> >The first part was directly paraphrased from the AP article.

> If you had so stated I would never have taken you to task.
> >
> >The second part was based on 30 years in the Army.

> I too spent some time in Army.

> Trained in:

> Infantry.
> Engineers.
> Field Arty.
> Cavalry.
> Qualified on Automatic Weapons, '03 & M-1 and 45.
> H-19 (Recon) & Huey (C&C)
> AAC trainers and Fighters.
> Going to Founders Day Dinner this Saturday to commensurate with my
> Army buddies that are still alive.

Whoopty doo.


> ----clip----

> >> If you are going to put your name to patently erroneous data, you
> >> should be prepared to qualify the data or say this is what was
> >> reported and by whom. We would then know you were not setting yourself
> >> up as a expert on what happened thousands of miles away.
> >
> >You could always read the AP article yourself, then get back to me
> >on that snide "patently erroneous data" remark.

> Why do you think the AP article is factual. 90% of the time where I
> have historical knowledge of a subject I find that the media is wrong.
> Since they have a history of promulgating falsehoods they are not a
> good source of facts unless you like to be led around by your nose.

Take your political agenda and shove it where the sun don't shine.

I reported what the article said.

You are on a soap box spewing attacking the messenger.

FWIW, I am well aware of the general accuracy of the media, however,
unlike you, I attribute it to lazyness and ignornance, not some
giant conspiracy.

> ----clip----


> >And you can stuff that "since you believe everything in the media or from
> >the mouths of politicians" remark up your ass.

> I find that individuals who have to use cuss words are insecure and
> lack the ability to think coherently.

Like I give a rat's ass what you think at this point.

> ----clip----

> >It is a good thing you weren't in charge.
> >
> >Command requires thinking, not emotional outbursts based on wild ass
> >supposition, such as I didn't read the AP report.

> Again you just love to cuss one out. Insecurity at the kindergarten
> level.. If you read prior postings you will see that you are the only
> one who has demonstrated any emotional outbursts.

If you think "wild ass" is cussing, you didn't spend much time in
the Army.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:37:51 -0600, Big John >
wrote in >:


I find that individuals who have to use cuss words are
insecure and lack the ability to think coherently.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:37:51 -0600, Big John >
> wrote in >:
>
>
> I find that individuals who have to use cuss words are
> insecure and lack the ability to think coherently.
>

****ing right, Bubba!

[skym]

On Feb 21, 2:14*pm, Typhoon502 > wrote:
>
...
I dunno, but I bet Kerry puts in for a medal over it.

And where were you duing the Viet Nam war?

[Edward A. Falk]

In article >,
skym > wrote:
>On Feb 21, 2:14*pm, Typhoon502 > wrote:
>>
> ...
> I dunno, but I bet Kerry puts in for a medal over it.
>
>And where were you duing the Viet Nam war?
>

Well, we all know where Bush was.

Oh, wait. No we don't.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/