Emergency and Discipline

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
failure, what are you going to do?
Open ended question to generate some more conversation and
discussions. In my more than 50 years of aviation, I've had at least
18 actual emergencies and survived them all. Only one resulted in
physical injury and that was more than 40 years ago.
It is disconcerting to read the modern aircraft manuals (civilian) and
see most of it relates to shutting down the engine/s and heading for a
landing area rather than dealing with the emergency and keeping the
aircraft flying if possible.
Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
causes?
Ol S&B

[Jim Stewart]

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
> If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
> failure, what are you going to do?
> Open ended question to generate some more conversation and
> discussions. In my more than 50 years of aviation, I've had at least
> 18 actual emergencies and survived them all. Only one resulted in
> physical injury and that was more than 40 years ago.
> It is disconcerting to read the modern aircraft manuals (civilian) and
> see most of it relates to shutting down the engine/s and heading for a
> landing area rather than dealing with the emergency and keeping the
> aircraft flying if possible.
> Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
> causes?

Here's what my instructor and I have been practicing..

If low, establish glide, secure engine, pick a spot
and land, flaps 40 and full stall if possible.

If high, establish glide, check fuel valve, try
restarts, throttle open, choke open, choke closed,
mag 1, mag 2, anything else you can think of...

If no luck, secure engine, look for field within gliding
distance. If developed airfield, call for priority and
land. If off-field, call 121.5, pick spot and stick
to it and land, flaps 40 and full stall. If terrain
is hostile, decrease airspeed, point plane at best
place and pull chute.

Your input is always appreciated.

[WingFlaps]

On Mar 1, 6:33*am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
> If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
> failure, what are you *going to do?

Aviate, navigate communicate? I'd guess the number one cause was the
pilot not doing something like make sure of adequate fuel.

Cheers

[WingFlaps]

On Mar 1, 7:24*am, Jim Stewart > wrote:
> Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
>
> > If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
> > failure, what are you *going to do?
> > Open ended question to generate some more conversation and
> > discussions. In my more than 50 years of aviation, I've had at least
> > 18 actual emergencies and survived them all. Only one resulted in
> > physical injury and that was more than 40 years ago.
> > It is disconcerting to read the modern aircraft manuals (civilian) and
> > see most of it relates to shutting down the engine/s and heading for a
> > landing area rather than dealing with the emergency and keeping the
> > aircraft flying if possible.
> > Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
> > causes?
>
> Here's what my instructor and I have been practicing..
>
> If low, establish glide, secure engine, pick a spot
> and land, flaps 40 and full stall if possible.
>
> If high, establish glide, check fuel valve, try
> restarts, throttle open, choke open, choke closed,
> mag 1, mag 2, anything else you can think of...
>
> If no luck, secure engine, look for field within gliding
> distance. *If developed airfield, call for priority and
> land. *If off-field, call 121.5, pick spot and stick
> to it and land, flaps 40 and full stall. *If terrain
> is hostile, decrease airspeed, point plane at best
> place and pull chute.
>

I'd say, after getting the glide started, FMOST checks, recheck trim
for best glide, establish landing area, plan approach, squark 7700,
MAYDAY on working frequency or 121.5, passenger brief, EPIRB, secure
engine, masters off after no further use for electrical power. Land
the plane (? chute) and seek out a telephone -but if in the
wilderness, prepare for survival and if the plane survived, check the
EPIRB is transmitting. If you see/hear a plane try the VHF. Look after
the passengers. Start a fire (sufficiently away from the plane). I've
probably forgotten something...

Cheers

If terrain were hostile, you might want to consider location a bit
before you pull that chute handle by the way.

[kontiki]

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

> Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
> causes?
> Ol S&B

I would say fuel starvation or fuel mismanagement would be the #1.

But given that a lapse of following procedures and/or FAA regulations
was the precipitating factor, the next thing in line is bad decision
making and problem resolution skills. Too often an emergency that
is survivable becomes a fatal accident because the pilot was not
prepared in skill set or mindset to deal with it.

But this is why we train and continue to train so we have the skills
and methods firmly ingrained to deal with emergencies. Most accidents
are due to some sort of pilot error (poor decision making?) or failure
to maintain control of the aircraft (cockpit management?).

[Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]]

WingFlaps wrote:

> If terrain were hostile, you might want to consider location a bit
> before you pull that chute handle by the way.

If you are going to pull chute the handle for an engine out over any
other than very hostile terrain please remind me not to fly with you.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
...
> If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
> failure, what are you going to do?

Let's see. Carb heat and/or switching tanks worked a couple times. Landing
straight ahead on the runway worked too. I've never had to make an
off-airport landing. (Unlike my little sister who ran out of gas on her
student cross country solo - "I told them to fill the tanks, but I guess I
forgot to check..." No damage, but she made the local small town paper.)

Had an "important looking" part fall out from behind the panel once. We
thought it might be a bushing from the control system so we (my brother and
I) made our way to the nearest airport with the absolute minimum of control
action - notified the traffic via CTAF, and made a straight in approach. It
turned out to be part of a radio mount...

>> Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
> causes?

1 -Fuel starvation.

2 - Carb Ice.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[WingFlaps]

On Mar 1, 8:58*am, Gig 601XL Builder >
wrote:
> WingFlaps wrote:
> > If terrain were hostile, you might want to consider location a bit
> > before you pull that chute handle by the way.
>
> If you are going to pull chute the handle for an engine out over any
> other than very hostile terrain please remind me not to fly with you.

I agree, that's why I said "land the plane (? chute)" Of course if the
engine out means it's really fallen out of the plane I'd like that
chute availability...

Cheers

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Gig 601XL Builder" > wrote in message
...
> WingFlaps wrote:
>
>> If terrain were hostile, you might want to consider location a bit
>> before you pull that chute handle by the way.
>
> If you are going to pull chute the handle for an engine out over any other
> than very hostile terrain please remind me not to fly with you.

Then there was the student pilot flying solo who ran out of gas on final,
turned away from the airport, and jumped out (with a 'chute)...

Really.

I ran into that in the NTSB accident reports while looking for something.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[gatt[_2_]]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
...

> If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
> failure, what are you going to do? In my more than 50 years of aviation,
> I've had at least
> 18 actual emergencies and survived them all. Only one resulted in physical
> injury and that was more than 40 years ago.

Well, if you'll tel us what you did, I'll probably try do do that. :>


-c

[LWG]

One less thing for me to remember...

> pull chute.

[[email protected]]

> Then there was the student pilot flying solo who ran out of gas on final,
> turned away from the airport, and jumped out (with a 'chute)...

I'd like to read that one. Do you recall what you searched for to find
it?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in news:deb6419c-cb2f-4b33-
:

> If you are faced with a full blown emergency such as an engine
> failure, what are you going to do?

first thing? atare at it inredulously for about .0001 of a second.




Bertie

[Mxsmanic]

Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

> Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
> causes?

Fuel exhaustion.

[WingFlaps]

On Mar 1, 10:17*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Ol Shy & Bashful writes:
>
> > Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
> > causes?
>
> Fuel exhaustion.

Not paying your electricity bill again?

Cheers

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Ol Shy & Bashful writes:
>
>> Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
>> causes?
>
> Fuel exhaustion.
>

Can't read, won't read.


Bertie

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I was looking for cases where people had failed to exit while trying to bail
out. So, parachute was the main search term - but that finds a lot of
accidents where someone was doing aerobatics without a parachute...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
> wrote in message
...
>> Then there was the student pilot flying solo who ran out of gas on final,
>> turned away from the airport, and jumped out (with a 'chute)...
>
> I'd like to read that one. Do you recall what you searched for to find
> it?

[Edward A. Falk]

In article >,
Ol Shy & Bashful > wrote:
>Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
>causes?

For you, or the general public?

For the general public, I'd say fuel starvation is the major cause.

For you, probably something else, because if it was fuel starvation,
you'd be too embarassed to bring it up :-)


Oddly enough, I did have an engine failure myself a few years ago and
I did not follow the checklist. The engine died, I looked at the fuel
pressure gauge, and flipped the aux fuel pump. It all happened so fast
that my passengers didn't even notice. I didn't even think about what
I was doing, I just did it.

Am I a genius for instantly knowing what the problem was, or am I an
idiot for not following the emergency checklist? Until I have another
engine out, I guess I'll never know.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

(Edward A. Falk) wrote in
:

> In article
> >,
> Ol Shy & Bashful > wrote:
>>Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
>>causes?
>
> For you, or the general public?
>
> For the general public, I'd say fuel starvation is the major cause.
>
> For you, probably something else, because if it was fuel starvation,
> you'd be too embarassed to bring it up :-)
>
>
> Oddly enough, I did have an engine failure myself a few years ago and
> I did not follow the checklist. The engine died, I looked at the fuel
> pressure gauge, and flipped the aux fuel pump. It all happened so
> fast that my passengers didn't even notice. I didn't even think about
> what I was doing, I just did it.
>
> Am I a genius for instantly knowing what the problem was, or am I an
> idiot for not following the emergency checklist? Until I have another
> engine out, I guess I'll never know.
>

I wouldn't say you were a genius, but if we did something like that in the
sim, and it worked, we'd definitely get pat on the back for it, unless it
endangered the airplane in some other way. For instance, if you get an
engine failure in a twin and don't follow the checklist you could shut the
othr one down which would be a bad thing. You had nothing to lose by
following your instinct so , no foul.


Bertie

[Roger[_4_]]

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:38:08 +0000 (UTC), (Edward
A. Falk) wrote:

>In article >,
>Ol Shy & Bashful > wrote:
>>Anyone want to hazard a guess at the major number of engine failure
>>causes?
>
>For you, or the general public?
>
>For the general public, I'd say fuel starvation is the major cause.
>
>For you, probably something else, because if it was fuel starvation,
>you'd be too embarassed to bring it up :-)

Hardly, Running out of gas due to poor planning is not the only
reason for fuel starvation.
>
>
>Oddly enough, I did have an engine failure myself a few years ago and
>I did not follow the checklist. The engine died, I looked at the fuel

I had a tank unport and it got real quiet real quick.
Like you I reacted so fast I wouldn't have had time to even read the
first line on the checklist.

>pressure gauge, and flipped the aux fuel pump. It all happened so fast
>that my passengers didn't even notice. I didn't even think about what
>I was doing, I just did it.
>
>Am I a genius for instantly knowing what the problem was, or am I an
>idiot for not following the emergency checklist? Until I have another
>engine out, I guess I'll never know.

There are times when you don't have time to follow a checklist. That
is when the repetitive training takes over and you, not the plane is
on autopilot. You just hope the programming was done right. <:-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Edward A. Falk wrote:
>
>Am I a genius for instantly knowing what the problem was, or am I an
>idiot for not following the emergency checklist? Until I have another
>engine out, I guess I'll never know.
>

If you pick up on the source of the problem instantly, it would be
rather silly to run through an emergency checklist until you got to the part
about switching the aux pump on.

Speaking of emergency checklists, are there (GA) pilots our there that
actually haul out a piece of paper when the engine goes quiet?? I was
taught to have my emergency procedures commited to memory, using a flow.

When I had a real engine failure, my PPL rated passenger and I had the
emergency procedures complete (including a restart attempt) in the blink of
an eye. Engine failed at 1,200 ft. AGL and we were sitting there at 500 ft.
AGL with nothing left to do but watch the ground get closer.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Christopher Brian Colohan]

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> writes:
> Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>
>>Am I a genius for instantly knowing what the problem was, or am I an
>>idiot for not following the emergency checklist? Until I have another
>>engine out, I guess I'll never know.
>>
>
> If you pick up on the source of the problem instantly, it would be
> rather silly to run through an emergency checklist until you got to the part
> about switching the aux pump on.
>
> Speaking of emergency checklists, are there (GA) pilots our there that
> actually haul out a piece of paper when the engine goes quiet?? I was
> taught to have my emergency procedures commited to memory, using a flow.

I was taught that after your flow fails, you should pull out the paper
and run the printed checklist just to make sure you have not forgotten
anything. And if that doesn't work and you have a suitable landing
site already made, start tinkering and problem solving, 'cause it can't hurt
and it might just help...

Chris