Ugly Airplanes, pt7 - lysander.jpg (1/1)

[Mitchell Holman]

[Jim Hawkins]

"Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
...

Whatever version of the lovely Lizzie is that contraption ?

Jim Hawkins

[Chris D]

"Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
...

Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory in
Sussex?

Notice the nasty sting in the tail!

Chris

[Mitchell Holman]

"Chris D" > wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
@news.optusnet.com.au:

>
> "Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory in
> Sussex?
>


"The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
"generic" heavy bomber tail unit.

The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
& Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
remained a one-off experiment."

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/pages/lysan_mod.php

[Robert Sveinson]

"Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
...


> "The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
> culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
> in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
> according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
> second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
> enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
> became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
> "generic" heavy bomber tail unit.
>
> The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
> K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
> changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
> & Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
> having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
> became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
> an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
> the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
> remained a one-off experiment."
>
> http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/pages/lysan_mod.php

The first Lysander oddball that you posted is in the book
The Narrow Margin by Wood and Dempster
and the caption underneathstates:

" Many emergency conversions were made to cope with
the dangers of 1940. To provide an aircraft for ground
strafing beach landing areas Westland devised a tande
wing version of the ubiquitous Lysander army-co-op
aircraft with provision in the rear fuselage for s four-
gun Boulton Paul turret. The prototype was flown
successfully but developement was not proceeded with."

When I read the above statement the first time I
didn't find it unbelievable, because at the same time
Tiger Moths were being fitted with bomb carrying
hardware. It rather suggests grasping at straws. I would
rather have the four gun turret at the front to strafe
the beaches.

Your explanation has a greater IMHO probability
of being the more reasonable, but it is always
fun to set the "cat among the pigeons.

Thanks for the second picture of that oddball.
I don't remember having seen that one before.

Robert

[Chris D]

"Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
...
> "Chris D" > wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
> @news.optusnet.com.au:
>
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory in
>> Sussex?
>>
>
> "The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
> culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
> in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
> according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
> second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
> enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
> became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
> "generic" heavy bomber tail unit.
>
> The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
> K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
> changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
> & Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
> having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
> became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
> an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
> the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
> remained a one-off experiment."
>
> http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/pages/lysan_mod.php
>
Thanks Mitchell, I would never have believed it was for real. Particularly
with the quality of the first picture. As for a night fighter version that
they were considering. One would have thought the best place for a turret
would been on top. Then the gunner could fire up into enemy aircraft from
below.

[John B]

"Chris D" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Chris D" > wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
>> @news.optusnet.com.au:
>>
>>>
>>> "Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory
>>> in
>>> Sussex?
>>>
>>
>> "The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
>> culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
>> in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
>> according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
>> second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
>> enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
>> became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
>> "generic" heavy bomber tail unit.
>>
>> The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
>> K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
>> changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
>> & Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
>> having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
>> became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
>> an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
>> the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
>> remained a one-off experiment."
>>
>> http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/pages/lysan_mod.php
>>
> Thanks Mitchell, I would never have believed it was for real. Particularly
> with the quality of the first picture. As for a night fighter version that
> they were considering. One would have thought the best place for a turret
> would been on top. Then the gunner could fire up into enemy aircraft from
> below.

In 1943-45; 90% of heavy bombers were shot down from below the wings.

John B

[Chris D]

"John B" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Chris D" > wrote in message
> u...
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Chris D" > wrote in news:47cc585c$0$26468$afc38c87
>>> @news.optusnet.com.au:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. My guess is that it was produced in the Photoshop factory
>>>> in
>>>> Sussex?
>>>>
>>>
>>> "The concept of a turret night-fighter version of the Lysander
>>> culminated in the curious "Experimental Aeroplane No. 136". Late
>>> in 1940, a further attempt was made to fit a turret, this time
>>> according to the French Delanne formula. This meant fitting a
>>> second wing in tandem to the main one - effectively a much
>>> enlarged tailplane - with end-plate fins and rudders. The aircraft
>>> became a kind of hybrid, an army-co-operation aircraft with a
>>> "generic" heavy bomber tail unit.
>>>
>>> The aircraft underwent trials in the winter of 1940-41. Lysander
>>> K6127 was by now fitted with a Bristol Perseus XII engine. Radical
>>> changes to the rear fuselage enabled a mock-up of a four-gun Nash
>>> & Thompson turret to be installed, made of plywood and perspex and
>>> having a very light framework. The overall length of the aircraft
>>> became 25 feet 7 inches. It was hoped the design would develop into
>>> an effective night-fighter, or at least a gunnery trainer. However,
>>> the Lysander turret night-fighter, despite successful flight trials,
>>> remained a one-off experiment."
>>>
>>> http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/pages/lysan_mod.php
>>>
>> Thanks Mitchell, I would never have believed it was for real.
>> Particularly with the quality of the first picture. As for a night
>> fighter version that they were considering. One would have thought the
>> best place for a turret would been on top. Then the gunner could fire up
>> into enemy aircraft from below.
>
> In 1943-45; 90% of heavy bombers were shot down from below the wings.
>
> John B

That's what I was think John. But i guess from our point of view it would
seem obvious. But back in 1940 this might not have seemed so obvious.

Regards.....Chris

[Robert Sveinson]

"John B" > wrote in message
...


>
> In 1943-45; 90% of heavy bombers were shot down from below the wings.

Not sure about the percentage, but many Bomber Command a/c were
brought down by Luftwaffe a/c equipped with upward
shooting cannon pointed up at about 70 degrees. They did not
use tracer so these casualties didn't know what hit them.

Schragge Musik!