Any gas balloon pilots here?

[Ricky]

Hi,

I may have the opportunity to take a ride in a helium balloon this
summer and have a few questions for any gas pilots here.

Opprox. what is the cost of a smaller system new, what is the appox.
cost of fill-up, did you get "hooked" on your first flight, does
maintenance require an A&P (I would guess just an A) and another
question or 2 for a pilot and/or experienced gas balloon crew.

Thanks,

Ricky

[William Hung[_2_]]

On Mar 3, 1:20*pm, Ricky > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I may have the opportunity to take a ride in a helium balloon this
> summer and have a few questions for any gas pilots here.
>
> Opprox. what is the cost of a smaller system new, what is the appox.
> cost of fill-up, did you get "hooked" on your first flight, does
> maintenance require an A&P (I would guess just an A) and another
> question or 2 for a pilot and/or experienced gas balloon crew.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ricky

I haven't heard of gas balloon pilots, just hot air balloon pilots.
Are there such a thing as gas balloons being piloted? Other than
record setting flights like what Steve Fossett did? I thought that
gas were used in blimps, airships and weather balloons, and piloted
balloons used hot air heated by propane.

Wil

[Ricky]

On Mar 3, 5:46*pm, William Hung > wrote:
> On Mar 3, 1:20*pm, Ricky > wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I may have the opportunity to take a ride in a helium balloon this
> > summer and have a few questions for any gas pilots here.
>
> > Opprox. what is the cost of a smaller system new, what is the appox.
> > cost of fill-up, did you get "hooked" on your first flight, does
> > maintenance require an A&P (I would guess just an A) and another
> > question or 2 for a pilot and/or experienced gas balloon crew.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Ricky
>
> I haven't heard of gas balloon pilots, just hot air balloon pilots.
> Are there such a thing as gas balloons being piloted? Other than
> record setting flights like what Steve Fossett did? *I thought that
> gas were used in blimps, airships and weather balloons, and piloted
> balloons used hot air heated by propane.
>
> Wil

Gas ballooning is not nearly as popular a sport as hot air but it does
have quite a following. Gas balloons are rather expensive to fill &
operate so the pilot community is limited, I assume, to those able to
afford the endeavor.
Here's a link to a gas balloon site in case you're interested;
http://www.gasballooning.net/
They are registered aircraft with an "N" number (in the U.S.) and the
licensure is controlled by the FAA just like fixed-wing a/c.
I was surprised to learn recently that many gas balloon pilots use
hydrogen as their gas of choice rather than the much more expensive
(and getting harder to obtain) helium.
Flights typically last several hours or even more than a day rather
than an hour or so as in hot air ballooning.
There's a famous annual gas balloon race called the "Gordon Bennett"
which is going to be held at the Albuquerque Balloon Festival this
year. Most larger hot air balloon events have gas balloon
participation.
Flying in a gas balloon is said to be other-worldly fantastic as it is
completely noiseless and totally peaceful. Hot air balloons are a lot
of fun, too & I've had lots of rides & a even a little instruction,
but the serenity of hot air ballooning is necessarily interuptted by
the loud burner.

Ricky

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Ricky wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I may have the opportunity to take a ride in a helium balloon this
>summer and have a few questions for any gas pilots here.
>

I didn't know there were people flying helium balloons on a regular basis.
If you've got to fill up a big balloon before each flight (i.e. you're not
reusing helium) , that sounds really expensive.

Maybe your talking about these guys? :

http://www.couchballoons.com/default.aspx

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-280)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Ricky]

On Mar 4, 1:26*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> Ricky wrote:
> >Hi,
>
> >I may have the opportunity to take a ride in a helium balloon this
> >summer and have a few questions for any gas pilots here.
>
> * I didn't know there were people flying helium balloons on a regular basis.
> If you've got to fill up a big balloon before each flight (i.e. you're not
> reusing helium) , that sounds really expensive. *
>
> * Maybe your talking about these guys? :
>
> http://www.couchballoons.com/default.aspx
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-280)
>
> --
> Message posted viahttp://www.aviationkb.com

Wow, that was cool, thanks!
No, there are actually gas-filled balloons all over the world & pilots
who fly for sport, commercially and for research & records & such.
Check out this link; http://www.gasballooning.net/
It is said to be much more fun & peaceful than hot air because with
hot air balloons you are interrupted by the loud burner.
Gas flights are also much longer, typically several hours or sometimes
more than a day, which interestingly brings up the necessity of
position lights on a balloon....Regs. say red on left & green on
right, correct? I've seen some "dawn patrol" hot air flights at
balloon festivals where they take off just before light and land at
the balloon festival/race field as the sun is rising. Makes for a lot
of beauty and is pretty popular with the crowd (sometimes small at
6:30 a.m.). Well, what I think I remember is that hot air balloons
have their red & green nav. lights hanging by string/rope on the sides
of the envelope. Now, I know that balloons rotate as they fly, some
competition/commercial models have a special vent which the pilot can
use to rotate on command for competition or advertisement purposes.
Now, I wonder how they circumvent having their position lights change
position while in flight? Makes more sense to put them on the basket
but I suppose they couldn't be seen by an aircraft above the balloon.

Ricky
As you guessed, gas ballooning is very expensive because helium is the
gas of choice, although hydrogen is becoming increasingly poular (!)
with gas pilots.

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Ricky wrote:
>Hi,
>

>Opprox. what is the cost of a smaller system new, what is the appox.
>cost of fill-up, did you get "hooked" on your first flight, does
>maintenance require an A&P (I would guess just an A) and another
>question or 2 for a pilot and/or experienced gas balloon crew.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ricky
Check this one out too:
http://www.clusterballoon.org/

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200803/1

[Stefan]

Ricky schrieb:

> As you guessed, gas ballooning is very expensive because helium is the
> gas of choice, although hydrogen is becoming increasingly poular (!)
> with gas pilots.

I dont' know about the USA, but in Europe, the only helium filled
balloons you'll find are the little ones for the children. All the real
ones fly on hydrogen. Helium is just way too expensive.

[Ricky]

On Mar 4, 3:56*pm, Stefan > wrote:
> Ricky schrieb:
>
> > As you guessed, gas ballooning is very expensive because helium is the
> > gas of choice, although hydrogen is becoming increasingly poular (!)
> > with gas pilots.
>
> I dont' know about the USA, but in Europe, the only helium filled
> balloons you'll find are the little ones for the children. All the real
> ones fly on hydrogen. Helium is just way too expensive.

Yeah, that is one reason why many pilots here in the U.S. are
switching to hydrogen, as well. Another reason is that hydrogen is a
stronger lifting gas than helium.

Ricky

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:47:54 -0800 (PST), Ricky
> wrote in
>:

>hydrogen is a stronger lifting gas than helium.

The atmospheric displacement of hydrogen (H2 MW=2), with one fourth
the molecular weight of helium (He2 MW=8), should be a considerably
larger percentage of its mass. But because the hydrogen molecule is
physically smaller, containing it within the balloon envelope may be
an issue.

My 2¢

[Jim Logajan]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:47:54 -0800 (PST), Ricky
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>>hydrogen is a stronger lifting gas than helium.
>
> The atmospheric displacement of hydrogen (H2 MW=2), with one fourth
> the molecular weight of helium (He2 MW=8), should be a considerably
> larger percentage of its mass.

Um, small correction: there is no He2 compound (well not normally).
So H2 MW=2, and He MW=4. Helium is twice as dense as H2 at the same
temperature and pressure.

That said, both gases provide nearly the same buoyancy - H2 provides all of
~8% more buoyancy that He. That is because buoyancy depends on the
differences of the densities, not their ratios. The densities at sea level
are:

Air: ~1.29 kg/m^3
He: ~0.18 kg/m^3.
H2: ~0.09 kg/m^3
Vacuum: ~0.0 kg/m^3

Turns out a vacuum provides a little under ~8% more buoyancy than H2.

> But because the hydrogen molecule is
> physically smaller, containing it within the balloon envelope may be
> an issue.

Well, both gases eventually leak through most LTA aircraft envelope
materials. (Metalclads like the ZMC-2 theoretically would fare best).

But the price of helium has done nothing but rise substantially for the
last few years. For some applications it has no substitute. Here's the USGS
site providing stats on worldwide production, consumption, estimated
reserves, and ever rising costs:

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/helium/

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 05:25:22 -0000, Jim Logajan >
wrote in >:

>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:47:54 -0800 (PST), Ricky
>> > wrote in
>> >:
>>
>>>hydrogen is a stronger lifting gas than helium.
>>
>> The atmospheric displacement of hydrogen (H2 MW=2), with one fourth
>> the molecular weight of helium (He2 MW=8), should be a considerably
>> larger percentage of its mass.
>
>Um, small correction: there is no He2 compound (well not normally).
>So H2 MW=2, and He MW=4. Helium is twice as dense as H2 at the same
>temperature and pressure.

My 2¢ was just a guess. I knew someone would correct it. Thanks for
the information.

I had no clue about the relative densities. Interesting.

[Alan[_6_]]

In article > Larry Dighera > writes:
>On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:47:54 -0800 (PST), Ricky
> wrote in
>:
>
>>hydrogen is a stronger lifting gas than helium.
>
>The atmospheric displacement of hydrogen (H2 MW=2), with one fourth
>the molecular weight of helium (He2 MW=8), should be a considerably
>larger percentage of its mass. But because the hydrogen molecule is
>physically smaller, containing it within the balloon envelope may be
>an issue.

But, the hydrogen molecule is 2 hydrogen atoms, at some distance.
The helium molecule is 1 helium atom, so it is smaller. As I recall,
helium leaks more.

However, from reports, hydrogen tends to ignite rather easily.

Alan