Near crash Luftansa - check video

[Rowan]

http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing

[TacAN]

"Rowan" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing


>ROFL. :-))
>It must be one of those weeks. :-)
>(and its only Monday)
>Graham

I rest my case! :-))))))

That really is a spectacular piece of footage - all passengers please change
your undies. :-)

Graham

[Dave Kearton]

TacAN wrote:

>>
>> That really is a spectacular piece of footage - all passengers
>> please change your undies. :-)
>>
>> Graham



"row 6, please change with row 8,

row 7 change with row 9"





--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[TacAN]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
...
> TacAN wrote:
>
>>>
>>> That really is a spectacular piece of footage - all passengers
>>> please change your undies. :-)
>>>
>>> Graham
>
>
>
> "row 6, please change with row 8,
>
> row 7 change with row 9"
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cheers
>
> Dave Kearton

I could end up with a pair of pink knickers. :-o

[Dave Kearton]

TacAN wrote:

>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Dave Kearton
>>
>> I could end up with a pair of pink knickers. :-o




They're not all they're cracked up to be .....





--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Nick O'Tyme]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote in message
...
> TacAN wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Dave Kearton
>>>
>>> I could end up with a pair of pink knickers. :-o
>
>
>
>
> They're not all they're cracked up to be .....
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cheers
>
> Dave Kearton
>
>

Yeah. The lace itches like buggery.

cheers

[Aluckyguess]

"Rowan" > wrote in message
...
>
http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing

Looks like the pilot needs some crosswind training.

[Marco Leon[_5_]]

Pics of the damage: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ll_da7_1204554965

[Atheist Chaplain]

"aluckyguess" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rowan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing
>
> Looks like the pilot needs some crosswind training.
>

I think under the circumstances the Pilot did a remarkable job, and is in no
need of extra training :-)

--
"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
Don Hirschberg

[Sylvia Else]

aluckyguess wrote:
> "Rowan" > wrote in message
> ...
> http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing
>
> Looks like the pilot needs some crosswind training.
>
>
But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
have been a good landing in difficult conditions.

If there is any training involved, it would be as regard the pilots
decision to attempt a landing, if, but only if, it's demonstrated that
the landing took place when the crosswind component (as reported to the
crew) exceeded that certificated for the aircraft.

Sylvia.

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

>But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
>have been a good landing in difficult conditions.

I can't tell what happened from the video but it also looks like the
pilot raised the right wing just as he/she was aligning the plane just
prior to touchdown.

Ron Lee

[Sylvia Else]

Ron Lee wrote:
>> But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
>> have been a good landing in difficult conditions.
>
> I can't tell what happened from the video but it also looks like the
> pilot raised the right wing just as he/she was aligning the plane just
> prior to touchdown.
>

The right wing raised, yes, but indications are that this was due a gust
of wind, not pilot control input.

Sylvia.

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

Sylvia Else > wrote:

>Ron Lee wrote:
>>> But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
>>> have been a good landing in difficult conditions.
>>
>> I can't tell what happened from the video but it also looks like the
>> pilot raised the right wing just as he/she was aligning the plane just
>> prior to touchdown.
>>
>
>The right wing raised, yes, but indications are that this was due a gust
>of wind, not pilot control input.

Maybe. That it had a gust at the same time as he straightened to
align the plan and did not lower the right wing suggests a doomed
approach.

Ron Lee

[Ron Garret]

In article >,
Sylvia Else > wrote:

> Ron Lee wrote:
> >> But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
> >> have been a good landing in difficult conditions.
> >
> > I can't tell what happened from the video but it also looks like the
> > pilot raised the right wing just as he/she was aligning the plane just
> > prior to touchdown.
> >
>
> The right wing raised, yes, but indications are that this was due a gust
> of wind, not pilot control input.

What indications?

rg

[TacAN]

"aluckyguess" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rowan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing
>
> Looks like the pilot needs some crosswind training.
>

Was there no alternative airport???

[John Ewing]

"Sylvia Else" > wrote in message
u...
> aluckyguess wrote:
>> "Rowan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing
>>
>> Looks like the pilot needs some crosswind training.
> But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
> have been a good landing in difficult conditions.

> If there is any training involved, it would be as regard the pilots
> decision to attempt a landing, if, but only if, it's demonstrated that the
> landing took place when the crosswind component (as reported to the crew)
> exceeded that certificated for the aircraft.
>
> Sylvia.

So who established the cause was "an unfortunate gust of wind"?

It looks much more likely the pilot may have inadvertently used aileron
instead of rudder correction.
We have no information on the experience of the pilot. May well have been a
junior pilot.
Let us accept that it may simply have been a poorly executed attempt to land
by a pilot with insufficient experience for what were undoubtedly difficult
conditions.

The reality is that there is a huge range of both experience and ability
amongst pilots. This ability/experience is not fully appreciated until a
really challenging situation develops.

John

[Sylvia Else]

John Ewing wrote:
> "Sylvia Else" > wrote in message
> u...
>> aluckyguess wrote:
>>> "Rowan" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/03/04/Caught_on_tape_Plane_avoids_disastrous_landing
>>>
>>> Looks like the pilot needs some crosswind training.
>> But for the unfortunate gust of wind at just the wrong moment, it would
>> have been a good landing in difficult conditions.
>
>> If there is any training involved, it would be as regard the pilots
>> decision to attempt a landing, if, but only if, it's demonstrated that the
>> landing took place when the crosswind component (as reported to the crew)
>> exceeded that certificated for the aircraft.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> So who established the cause was "an unfortunate gust of wind"?
>
> It looks much more likely the pilot may have inadvertently used aileron
> instead of rudder correction.

> We have no information on the experience of the pilot. May well have been a
> junior pilot.

> Let us accept that it may simply have been a poorly executed attempt to land
> by a pilot with insufficient experience for what were undoubtedly difficult
> conditions.
>

From the video it looks to me as if the pilot had just used rudder to
point the aircraft down the runway, with wings level, and was about to
touch done. I cannot see why any pilot, experienced or otherwise, would
suddenly apply left ailerons at that point.

Sylvia.

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

Sylvia Else > wrote:
>
> From the video it looks to me as if the pilot had just used rudder to
>point the aircraft down the runway, with wings level, and was about to
>touch done. I cannot see why any pilot, experienced or otherwise, would
>suddenly apply left ailerons at that point.
>
>Sylvia.

I also see no attempt to lower the right wing to prevent what we saw
happen.

Keep the wings level and guess what happens? Just watch the video.

Ron Lee

[Pits]

On Mar 8, 1:01 am, (Ron Lee) wrote:
> Sylvia Else > wrote:
>
> > From the video it looks to me as if the pilot had just used rudder to
> >point the aircraft down the runway, with wings level, and was about to
> >touch done. I cannot see why any pilot, experienced or otherwise, would
> >suddenly apply left ailerons at that point.
>
> >Sylvia.
>
> I also see no attempt to lower the right wing to prevent what we saw
> happen.
>
> Keep the wings level and guess what happens? Just watch the video.
>
> Ron Lee

G;Day Ron . What you say above is appropriate in a piloting sense.
However, I am very interested to await the publishing of the FDR
parameters .
Not being up to speed on how much aileron authority one has in an
A320 that close to the deck and the squat switched not telling the
computer and other whiz bang gear that may have been disallowing the
pilot and not able to see what the wind socks did at that *precise*
moment.

The rudder did move a tad when going through the flick frame by
frame . He apparently has 17 years with LH How much time on type is
unknown.

But at least he got the pax and hull back without any blood & gore
Still looks like cows guts WX though.

But looks like things got a tad ahead of him/her starting way out as
per the film

Even allowing for the speed of sound to reach that cameras mic it
sounds like he started to spool up at about 100 just BEFORE the left
wing dipped
and had already started to initiate a go around albeit a poofteenth
too late.

If you are Ron Lee the ex test pilot your take on things would be
far more informed than mine :)

[Sylvia Else]

Ron Lee wrote:
> Sylvia Else > wrote:
>> From the video it looks to me as if the pilot had just used rudder to
>> point the aircraft down the runway, with wings level, and was about to
>> touch done. I cannot see why any pilot, experienced or otherwise, would
>> suddenly apply left ailerons at that point.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> I also see no attempt to lower the right wing to prevent what we saw
> happen.

What would such an attempt look like?

Sylvia.

[Matt Whiting]

Sylvia Else wrote:
> Ron Lee wrote:
>> Sylvia Else > wrote:
>>> From the video it looks to me as if the pilot had just used rudder to
>>> point the aircraft down the runway, with wings level, and was about
>>> to touch done. I cannot see why any pilot, experienced or otherwise,
>>> would suddenly apply left ailerons at that point.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> I also see no attempt to lower the right wing to prevent what we saw
>> happen.
>
> What would such an attempt look like?

Up aileron on the right wing, down aileron on the left wing and right
rudder just for good measure.

Matt

[Sylvia Else]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
>> Ron Lee wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else > wrote:
>>>> From the video it looks to me as if the pilot had just used rudder
>>>> to point the aircraft down the runway, with wings level, and was
>>>> about to touch done. I cannot see why any pilot, experienced or
>>>> otherwise, would suddenly apply left ailerons at that point.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> I also see no attempt to lower the right wing to prevent what we saw
>>> happen.
>>
>> What would such an attempt look like?
>
> Up aileron on the right wing, down aileron on the left wing and right
> rudder just for good measure.

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer.

What would such an attempt look like in the video given the quality of
the images?

If such an action were apparent in the video, then the action that
caused the initial roll, if caused by the pilot, would also be apparent.

Sylvia.