Almost Disasterous Landing [Archive]

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J.F.

March 4th 08, 02:29 PM

I've made some "White-Knuckle" crosswind landings before but this one cuts the cake. I'll bet there is some new grip marks in that joystick.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W4OxGkmvPng

Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six stills from LiveLeak footage made available on Monday March 3, 2008 showing a plane attempting to make an emergency landing at Hamburg Airport on Saturday. A Lufthansa Airlines airlines flight carrying 131 passengers narrowly escaped disaster during a landing attempt in gale force winds over the weekend. The flight from Munich was trying to land at Hamburg on Saturday when it got buffeted by strong crosswinds, sparked by the winter storm 'Emma' that caused havoc across central Europe this weekend. Amateur video showed the plane violently veering from side to side as it came in to land. The Airbus A320 landed safely on the second attempt.

Mitchell Holman

March 4th 08, 03:06 PM

"J.F." > wrote in
et:

> I've made some "White-Knuckle" crosswind landings before but this one
> cuts the cake. I'll bet there is some new grip marks in that joystick.
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=W4OxGkmvPng
>
>
> Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six stills from LiveLeak
> footage made available on Monday March 3, 2008 showing a plane
> attempting to make an emergency landing at Hamburg Airport on Saturday.
> A Lufthansa Airlines airlines flight carrying 131 passengers narrowly
> escaped disaster during a landing attempt in gale force winds over the
> weekend. The flight from Munich was trying to land at Hamburg on
> Saturday when it got buffeted by strong crosswinds, sparked by the
> winter storm 'Emma' that caused havoc across central Europe this
> weekend. Amateur video showed the plane violently veering from side to
> side as it came in to land. The Airbus A320 landed safely on the second
> attempt. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C87DDA.45480730
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>I've made some "White-Knuckle"
> crosswind landings before but this one cuts the cake.  I'll bet
> there is some new grip marks in that joystick.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4><A
> href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=W4OxGkmvPng">http://youtube.com/watch?v=
> W4OxGkmvPng</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=#303030></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=#303030>Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six
> stills from LiveLeak footage made available on Monday March 3, 2008
> showing a plane attempting to make an emergency landing at Hamburg
> Airport on Saturday. A Lufthansa Airlines airlines flight carrying 131
> passengers narrowly escaped disaster during a landing attempt in gale
> force winds over the weekend. The flight from Munich was trying to land
> at Hamburg on Saturday when it got buffeted by strong crosswinds,
> sparked by the winter storm 'Emma' that caused havoc across central
> Europe this weekend. Amateur video showed the plane violently veering
> from side to side as it came in to land. The Airbus A320 landed safely
> on the second attempt.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C87DDA.45480730--

A good bit of flying. The passengers may have been
rattled, but they got where they wanted to go and lived
to tell about it........

J.F.

March 4th 08, 03:19 PM

Which also applies to any safe landing

"Mitchell Holman" > wrote in message
...
> "J.F." > wrote in
> et:
>
>> I've made some "White-Knuckle" crosswind landings before but this one
>> cuts the cake. I'll bet there is some new grip marks in that joystick.
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=W4OxGkmvPng
>>
>>
>> Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six stills from LiveLeak
>> footage made available on Monday March 3, 2008 showing a plane
>> attempting to make an emergency landing at Hamburg Airport on Saturday.
>> A Lufthansa Airlines airlines flight carrying 131 passengers narrowly
>> escaped disaster during a landing attempt in gale force winds over the
>> weekend. The flight from Munich was trying to land at Hamburg on
>> Saturday when it got buffeted by strong crosswinds, sparked by the
>> winter storm 'Emma' that caused havoc across central Europe this
>> weekend. Amateur video showed the plane violently veering from side to
>> side as it came in to land. The Airbus A320 landed safely on the second
>> attempt. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C87DDA.45480730
>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>> <HTML><HEAD>
>> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
>> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR>
>> <STYLE></STYLE>
>> </HEAD>
>> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>I've made some "White-Knuckle"
>> crosswind landings before but this one cuts the cake.  I'll bet
>> there is some new grip marks in that joystick.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
>> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4><A
>> href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=W4OxGkmvPng">http://youtube.com/watch?v=
>> W4OxGkmvPng</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT color=#303030></FONT> </DIV>
>> <DIV><FONT color=#303030>Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six
>> stills from LiveLeak footage made available on Monday March 3, 2008
>> showing a plane attempting to make an emergency landing at Hamburg
>> Airport on Saturday. A Lufthansa Airlines airlines flight carrying 131
>> passengers narrowly escaped disaster during a landing attempt in gale
>> force winds over the weekend. The flight from Munich was trying to land
>> at Hamburg on Saturday when it got buffeted by strong crosswinds,
>> sparked by the winter storm 'Emma' that caused havoc across central
>> Europe this weekend. Amateur video showed the plane violently veering
>> from side to side as it came in to land. The Airbus A320 landed safely
>> on the second attempt.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>>
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C87DDA.45480730--
>
>
> A good bit of flying. The passengers may have been
> rattled, but they got where they wanted to go and lived
> to tell about it........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Al G[_1_]

March 4th 08, 03:20 PM

>Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six stills from LiveLeak footage made >available on Monday March 3, 2008 showing a plane attempting to make an >emergency landing at Hamburg Airport on Saturday.

It wasn't an emergency until after the attempt.

What happens in any airplane, and particularly swept wings, when you stomp left rudder? It rolls left.

The upwind runway, 29, should have been used on the first attempt, as it was on his second and successful attempt.

Al G CFIAMI

Al G[_1_]

March 4th 08, 03:56 PM

"Al G" > wrote in message ...

>Sequence, from top left to bottom right, of six stills from LiveLeak footage made >available on Monday March 3, 2008 showing a plane attempting to make an >emergency landing at Hamburg Airport on Saturday.

It wasn't an emergency until after the attempt.

What happens in any airplane, and particularly swept wings, when you stomp left rudder? It rolls left.

The upwind runway, 29, should have been used on the first attempt, as it was on his second and successful attempt.

Al G CFIAMI

Excuse me, the upwind runway, 33 should have been used.

From the piloting group, the Wx:

EDDH 011220Z 29028G48KT 9000 -SHRA FEW011 BKN014 07/05 Q0984 TEMPO
29035G55KT 4000 SHRA BKN008

The incident happened at 13:55 local time
The flight LH 044 (D-AIQP), an A320 from MUC (Munich)
The landing runway was 23 LOC-DME (ATIS gave no other option)
after the go-around the pilots elected runway 33 also LOC-DME approach
and landed safely but minus the left winglet...
immediately after the incident ATIS gave runway 23 and 33 as well

Al G

Peter Dohm

March 4th 08, 05:55 PM

There is an interesting discussion involving this on rec.aviation.piloting
with the subject line "wow"

IMHO, it involves an interesting discussion of crosswind landings in
different aircraft types for pilots, former pilots, and future pilots.

Peter

Ramapo

March 5th 08, 01:52 PM

I would have thought that the almost 45 degree crab relative to the
runway that he was forced to hold towards the end of the approach
would have warned him that when he would kick left rudder to align
with the runway for touchdown that he wasn't going to make it.

I found myself reaching for the throttles way early on that one!

Paul

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:55:35 -0500, "Peter Dohm"
> wrote:

>There is an interesting discussion involving this on rec.aviation.piloting
>with the subject line "wow"
>
>IMHO, it involves an interesting discussion of crosswind landings in
>different aircraft types for pilots, former pilots, and future pilots.
>
>Peter
>
>

Peter Dohm

March 5th 08, 07:36 PM

"Ramapo" > wrote in message
...
>I would have thought that the almost 45 degree crab relative to the
> runway that he was forced to hold towards the end of the approach
> would have warned him that when he would kick left rudder to align
> with the runway for touchdown that he wasn't going to make it.
>
> I found myself reaching for the throttles way early on that one!
>
> Paul
>
>
That appears to be an illusion due to the camera position and the guys with
heavy iron experience are all saying that the crab angle is in keeping with
a cross wind component of 30 to 35 knots; which is in keeping with the
reported winds at the time and location.

The discussion is interesting primarily because of the related discussion of
the "control rules" of the Fly By Wire system--which is completely outside
my areas of expertise.

BTW, I also found myself wishing for an earlier "Go Around"; but I have no
idea of what sequence of procedures might be required.

Peter