Mystery plane ..... was it ever ID'd ?

[Dingo[_4_]]

This image was posted here on a.b.p.a. about February, 2000 and generated
some long threads as to its ID. But IIRC it was never positively ID'd. Any
ideas, folks ?
~~
Dingo

[John Szalay]

"Dingo" ?> wrote in
:

>
> This image was posted here on a.b.p.a. about February, 2000 and
> generated some long threads as to its ID. But IIRC it was never
> positively ID'd. Any ideas, folks ?
> ~~
> Dingo
>
> Attachment decoded: untitled-2.txt
> ------=_NextPart_000_0175_01C883CE.52F6D970
>
>
> Attachment decoded: strange plane.jpg
> ------=_NextPart_000_0175_01C883CE.52F6D970--



Had to dig deep in the archives for that one...

SNCASE 580 / Sud Est SE 580


Christophe Meunier from France responded with the following:

The SNCA Sud Est SE 580 comes from the SNCA du Midi M 580 project of
1940. It would have 2 coupled engines. Then SNCASE overtook the SNCAM,
and wind-tunnel trials occured in 1943. After France being freed, in
1944, the SE 580 prototype was officially ordered, by the Air Minister
then by the French Navy. The 580 code was linked to the 520 (Dewoitine)
family, and the wing structure was typically Dewoitine (private
companies disappeared in the French aviation world in 1936, replaced by
government-owned SNCAs : Sociétés Nationales de Construction
Aéronautique / Aeronautic Manufacturing National Societies). The rear
fuselage included an internal radiator, feeded in air by a dorsal
intake. With this position, the radiator was almost protected. The
dorsal air-intake principle was kept alive on projects SE 2410/2415. On
the SE 580, the engine would have been a 24-cylinders one, instead of 2x
12 cylinders ones. The power was 2500 hp for a start, but 3600 hp was
expected. Armament would have been a 30mm gun in the airscrew and four
20mm guns in the wing, and a vertical camera would have been installed
in the central fuselage. In 1946, the Hispano-Suiza 24Z engine (with
contra-rotating airscrews) was discarded and changed for a 24H engine
(German Jumo 213 manufactured in France), with one big 5-blade propeller
and a lower axis, and so a longer landing gear. Then wind-tunnel test
required to move the engine forward and make important changes in the
wing. That was a lot of work, and the piston-engined aircraft were not
up-to-date anymore. And the SNCASE had enough work with other projects.
So SNCASE stopped work on this SE 580, without achieving the prototype
manufacturing. The SNCA du Centre (SNCAC) could have taken on this
project to finish it, but this project was discarded, too. So, no "first
fly" for the SE 580. Span 15.862m - Length 13.000m - Weight 5093kg empty
and 8128kg maximum - Maximum speed 749km/h (much !). All that comes from
the Docavia book No.28 (wonderful book, with many French unbuilt
projects of 1944-1960, but it is rather expensive).
Tophe.

http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/archive/index.php?t-734.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200102/ai_n8931139

[Dingo[_4_]]

"John Szalay" > wrote in message
42...

> "Dingo" ?> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> This image was posted here on a.b.p.a. about February, 2000 and
>> generated some long threads as to its ID. But IIRC it was never
>> positively ID'd. Any ideas, folks ?
>> ~~
>> Dingo
>>
>> Attachment decoded: untitled-2.txt
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0175_01C883CE.52F6D970
>>
>>
>> Attachment decoded: strange plane.jpg
>> ------=_NextPart_000_0175_01C883CE.52F6D970--
>
>
>
> Had to dig deep in the archives for that one...
>
> SNCASE 580 / Sud Est SE 580
>
>
> Christophe Meunier from France responded with the following:
>
> The SNCA Sud Est SE 580 comes from the SNCA du Midi M 580 project of
> 1940. It would have 2 coupled engines. Then SNCASE overtook the SNCAM,
> and wind-tunnel trials occured in 1943. After France being freed, in
> 1944, the SE 580 prototype was officially ordered, by the Air Minister
> then by the French Navy. The 580 code was linked to the 520 (Dewoitine)
> family, and the wing structure was typically Dewoitine (private
> companies disappeared in the French aviation world in 1936, replaced by
> government-owned SNCAs : Sociétés Nationales de Construction
> Aéronautique / Aeronautic Manufacturing National Societies). The rear
> fuselage included an internal radiator, feeded in air by a dorsal
> intake. With this position, the radiator was almost protected. The
> dorsal air-intake principle was kept alive on projects SE 2410/2415. On
> the SE 580, the engine would have been a 24-cylinders one, instead of 2x
> 12 cylinders ones. The power was 2500 hp for a start, but 3600 hp was
> expected. Armament would have been a 30mm gun in the airscrew and four
> 20mm guns in the wing, and a vertical camera would have been installed
> in the central fuselage. In 1946, the Hispano-Suiza 24Z engine (with
> contra-rotating airscrews) was discarded and changed for a 24H engine
> (German Jumo 213 manufactured in France), with one big 5-blade propeller
> and a lower axis, and so a longer landing gear. Then wind-tunnel test
> required to move the engine forward and make important changes in the
> wing. That was a lot of work, and the piston-engined aircraft were not
> up-to-date anymore. And the SNCASE had enough work with other projects.
> So SNCASE stopped work on this SE 580, without achieving the prototype
> manufacturing. The SNCA du Centre (SNCAC) could have taken on this
> project to finish it, but this project was discarded, too. So, no "first
> fly" for the SE 580. Span 15.862m - Length 13.000m - Weight 5093kg empty
> and 8128kg maximum - Maximum speed 749km/h (much !). All that comes from
> the Docavia book No.28 (wonderful book, with many French unbuilt
> projects of 1944-1960, but it is rather expensive).
> Tophe.
>
> http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/archive/index.php?t-734.html
>
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200102/ai_n8931139


Thanks, John, I guess I must have missed the answer back then.
~~
Dingo ;~)

[John Szalay]

"Dingo" ?> wrote in >> This image was posted
here on a.b.p.a. about February, 2000 and
>>> generated some long threads as to its ID. But IIRC it was never
>>> positively ID'd. Any ideas, folks ?
>>> ~~
>>> Dingo
>>
>> SNCASE 580 / Sud Est SE 580
>>
>>
>
> Thanks, John, I guess I must have missed the answer back then.
> ~~
> Dingo ;~)
>
>


My pleasure, I remember the picture and had it on an old disk drive
along with the answer. then googled to find any follow-ups.
there was another picture as well, but I could not find that one.
the two engine thing was what really got my attention..

I remembered that it was a French prototype, but had to refresh the
details... Enjoy.....

[Dingo[_4_]]

"John Szalay" > wrote in message
42...

> "Dingo" ?> wrote in >> This image was posted
> here on a.b.p.a. about February, 2000 and
>>>> generated some long threads as to its ID. But IIRC it was never
>>>> positively ID'd. Any ideas, folks ?
>>>> ~~
>>>> Dingo
>>>
>>> SNCASE 580 / Sud Est SE 580
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, John, I guess I must have missed the answer back then.
>> ~~
>> Dingo ;~)
>>
>>
>
>
> My pleasure, I remember the picture and had it on an old disk drive
> along with the answer. then googled to find any follow-ups.
> there was another picture as well, but I could not find that one.
> the two engine thing was what really got my attention..
>
> I remembered that it was a French prototype, but had to refresh the
> details... Enjoy.....

Yes, there were two images. Here's the second one as posted, strangely
cropped.
Thanks again,
~~
Dingo

[bob]

Here's a photo of the Hispano-Suiza 24 Z engine. Looks very heavy!

Bob

"Dingo" ?> wrote in message
...
>
> This image was posted here on a.b.p.a. about February, 2000 and generated
> some long threads as to its ID. But IIRC it was never positively ID'd. Any
> ideas, folks ?
> ~~
> Dingo
>

[John Szalay]

"Dingo" ?> wrote in news:EvudnfZzQIEd-
> Yes, there were two images. Here's the second one as posted, strangely
> cropped.
> Thanks again,
> ~~
> Dingo
>
> A


Heres the other picture I remember, found it here with the drawings

http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=41774

[Dingo[_4_]]

"John Szalay" > wrote in message
42...

> "Dingo" ?> wrote in news:EvudnfZzQIEd-
>> Yes, there were two images. Here's the second one as posted, strangely
>> cropped.
>> Thanks again,
>> ~~
>> Dingo
>>
>> A
>
>
> Heres the other picture I remember, found it here with the drawings
>
> http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=41774

Thanks again, John, I don't recall seeing these before.
~~
Dingo ;~)

[AJ[_2_]]

The photo looks like it was cropped for a manual or advertisement.

AJ

"Dingo" ?> wrote in news:EvudnfZzQIEd-
:
> Yes, there were two images. Here's the second one as posted, strangely
> cropped.
> Thanks again,
> ~~
> Dingo