small disel a/c engine?

[Cubdriver]

Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
engine small enough for a Piper Cub?

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
new from HarperCollins www.FlyingTigersBook.com

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in
:

>
> Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
> engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>
> Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
>
> Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
> new from HarperCollins www.FlyingTigersBook.com
>

Some guy put a mercedes diesel on a Piet years ago. Very nice looking
installation in the traditional Piet style. He even had a three pointed
star on the radiator. I wouldn't fancy propping it though.


Bertie

[Robert M. Gary]

On Mar 23, 2:25*pm, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
> Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
> engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>
> Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel 172.
The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.

-Robert

[John Godwin]

Sacre Bleu. Don't the French Fries clog fuel lines? :-)

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in

:

> Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel
> 172. The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.

--

[Robert M. Gary]

On Mar 23, 10:34*pm, John Godwin > wrote:
> Sacre Bleu. *Don't the French Fries clog fuel lines? :-)

I'll tell you, you can smell if that plane is in the hanger before you
open the door! Smells like McD's. Kind of takes your desire to eat
lunch away; I can't imagine what it must be like flying it.

-Robert

[Tauno Voipio]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2:25 pm, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
>
>>Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
>>engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>>
>>Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
>
>
> Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel 172.
> The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.
>
> -Robert

The engine is made by Thielert in Germany. It is a modified
Mercedes common-rail diesel engine.

For more information, go to http://www.centurion-engines.com/.

By the way, it runs on the big-airplane food: JET-A1.

--

Tauno Voipio (CPL(A))
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

[Tauno Voipio]

Airbus wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>
>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 23, 2:25 pm, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
>>>>engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>>>>
>>>>Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
>>>
>>>
>>>Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel 172.
>>>The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.
>>>
>>>-Robert
>>
>>The engine is made by Thielert in Germany. It is a modified
>>Mercedes common-rail diesel engine.
>>
>>For more information, go to http://www.centurion-engines.com/.
>>
>>By the way, it runs on the big-airplane food: JET-A1.
>>
>>--
>>
>
>
>
> I am personally aware of two such planes (Thielert-powered C-172's) which
> have been removed from service due to unexpected, and as yet unexplained
> engine stoppages. . . Anyone else heard of this?


Thielert has had its portion of new-design woes:

- problems in fuel and cooling plumbing,
- gearbox / clutch problems,
- broken high-pressure pumps.

AFAIK, no real problems with the most feared component,
FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control).

One twin with Thielerts came down immediately after take-off
in Germany, when its electrical system collapsed. The engines
had been started with external power and the battery was not
in system at all. The procedure was prohibited in the operation
manual. The electrical systems have been changed so that it
is not anymore possible to repeat the preformance. This was
actually more an airframe problem than an engine problem.

At least one of the high-pressure pump failures happened
here for the Cessna of our club. It seems that the pump
had been dry some 5 hours before the failure. The Thielert
manual especially warns running the pump dry, and if so
happens, there should be an inspection of the pump
before the next flight.

--

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

[Airbus[_4_]]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 2:25 pm, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
>>
>>>Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
>>>engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>>>
>>>Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
>>
>>
>> Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel 172.
>> The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.
>>
>> -Robert
>
>The engine is made by Thielert in Germany. It is a modified
>Mercedes common-rail diesel engine.
>
>For more information, go to http://www.centurion-engines.com/.
>
>By the way, it runs on the big-airplane food: JET-A1.
>
>--
>


I am personally aware of two such planes (Thielert-powered C-172's) which
have been removed from service due to unexpected, and as yet unexplained
engine stoppages. . . Anyone else heard of this?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Tauno Voipio > wrote in
:

> Airbus wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>
>>>
>>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mar 23, 2:25 pm, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
>>>>>engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>>>>>
>>>>>Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel
>>>>172. The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.
>>>>
>>>>-Robert
>>>
>>>The engine is made by Thielert in Germany. It is a modified
>>>Mercedes common-rail diesel engine.
>>>
>>>For more information, go to http://www.centurion-engines.com/.
>>>
>>>By the way, it runs on the big-airplane food: JET-A1.
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I am personally aware of two such planes (Thielert-powered C-172's)
>> which have been removed from service due to unexpected, and as yet
>> unexplained engine stoppages. . . Anyone else heard of this?
>
>
> Thielert has had its portion of new-design woes:
>
> - problems in fuel and cooling plumbing,
> - gearbox / clutch problems,
> - broken high-pressure pumps.
>
> AFAIK, no real problems with the most feared component,
> FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control).
>
> One twin with Thielerts came down immediately after take-off
> in Germany, when its electrical system collapsed. The engines
> had been started with external power and the battery was not
> in system at all. The procedure was prohibited in the operation
> manual. The electrical systems have been changed so that it
> is not anymore possible to repeat the preformance. This was
> actually more an airframe problem than an engine problem.
>


Bull****. Engine installation problem.



Bertie

[Roger[_4_]]

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:48:30 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>Tauno Voipio > wrote in
:
>
>> Airbus wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> says...
>>>
>>>>
ME,? I want a big, honkin' 350 to 360 HP that will fit nicely into
the Deb and cost about as much as a new IO-360<:-))

Can you tell the hours are getting close to TBO?
>
>
>Bull****. Engine installation problem.
>
>
>
>Bertie
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Tauno Voipio]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Tauno Voipio > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Airbus wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Mar 23, 2:25 pm, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is it possible (is it likely) that we will see a diesel aircraft
>>>>>>engine small enough for a Piper Cub?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Blue skies! -- Dan Ford
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Almost. The local A&P community college here runs an STC'd diesel
>>>>>172. The engine is made in Germany. They run it on French Fries.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Robert
>>>>
>>>>The engine is made by Thielert in Germany. It is a modified
>>>>Mercedes common-rail diesel engine.
>>>>
>>>>For more information, go to http://www.centurion-engines.com/.
>>>>
>>>>By the way, it runs on the big-airplane food: JET-A1.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I am personally aware of two such planes (Thielert-powered C-172's)
>>>which have been removed from service due to unexpected, and as yet
>>>unexplained engine stoppages. . . Anyone else heard of this?
>>
>>
>>Thielert has had its portion of new-design woes:
>>
>> - problems in fuel and cooling plumbing,
>> - gearbox / clutch problems,
>> - broken high-pressure pumps.
>>
>>AFAIK, no real problems with the most feared component,
>>FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control).
>>
>>One twin with Thielerts came down immediately after take-off
>>in Germany, when its electrical system collapsed. The engines
>>had been started with external power and the battery was not
>>in system at all. The procedure was prohibited in the operation
>>manual. The electrical systems have been changed so that it
>>is not anymore possible to repeat the preformance. This was
>>actually more an airframe problem than an engine problem.
>>
>
>
>
> Bull****. Engine installation problem.
>
>
>
> Bertie


Please explain - what is the difference with an airframe
problem and an engine installation problem here?

As far as I understand, the electrical system design is
an airframe part.

--

Tauno Voipio, avionics engineer
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

[Airbus[_4_]]

In article >,
says...

>
>AFAIK, no real problems with the most feared component,
>FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control).
>

Agree, the FADEC's work flawlessly.
Great fuel economy too - though the 172's have so-so performance (new C-S
3-blade prop too try to get some of that performance back) and they really
stink of kerosene!

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Tauno Voipio" > wrote

> At least one of the high-pressure pump failures happened
> here for the Cessna of our club. It seems that the pump
> had been dry some 5 hours before the failure. The Thielert
> manual especially warns running the pump dry, and if so
> happens, there should be an inspection of the pump
> before the next flight.

I'm not sure what you mean, as in "running the pump dry."

Does it require lubricating oil from the engine, which it was not getting,
or "dry" as in the fuel supply was interrupted?
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Airbus" > wrote

> Agree, the FADEC's work flawlessly.
> Great fuel economy too - though the 172's have so-so performance (new C-S
> 3-blade prop too try to get some of that performance back) and they really
> stink of kerosene!

Need more power, huh? Bigger engine, or more boost.

Sounds like the exhaust needs to be run to a location to get the gasses
clear of the plane while in flight, or that the fuel system is leaking, or
the vents are inadequate.

Diesel cars do not stink of kerosene. What is causing that problem in the
airplane?
--
Jim in NC

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Tauno Voipio > wrote in news:L7sGj.157$3J.112
@read4.inet.fi:
>
>
> Please explain - what is the difference with an airframe
> problem and an engine installation problem here?
>
> As far as I understand, the electrical system design is
> an airframe part.
>

No, it's an electrical system part. Airframe parts are wings and what
not....


Bertie

[Tauno Voipio]

Morgans wrote:
> "Tauno Voipio" > wrote
>
>
>>At least one of the high-pressure pump failures happened
>>here for the Cessna of our club. It seems that the pump
>>had been dry some 5 hours before the failure. The Thielert
>>manual especially warns running the pump dry, and if so
>>happens, there should be an inspection of the pump
>>before the next flight.
>
>
> I'm not sure what you mean, as in "running the pump dry."
>
> Does it require lubricating oil from the engine, which it was not getting,
> or "dry" as in the fuel supply was interrupted?


The high pressure pump is lubricated by the fuel (kerosene).

If you run out of fuel (or close the valve), you'll need
to have the pump inspected.

The website of Thielert/Centurion is not too good, it does
not give access to the manuals, but e.g. the Diamond pages
have the flight manuals of DA40 (diesel) and DA42. There
are instructions how to behave with the diesels.

--

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

[[email protected]]

The Wilksch engine slowly evolves.
It's 2 litres, 2-stroke turbo diesel using Jet A1 fuel. Produces
nearly as much power as the Thielert and is lighter.

It was originally complicated by "clever" bits which proved handicaps.
It's been simplified and is doing its Certification Endurance Tests at
Gloucester, Uk.

>