basic club logger suggestions

[kirk.stant]

Looking for ideas on a basic logger for a glider club - something that
will make .igc compatible log files (for OLC and SeeYou) and local
contests.

Thinking of a Garmin handheld that could be turned on, tossed in the
back of the cockpit, then downloaded after the flight.

Suggestions?

Kirk
66

[SoaringXCellence]

On Mar 23, 1:33*pm, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> Looking for ideas on a basic logger for a glider club - something that
> will make .igc compatible log files (for OLC and SeeYou) and local
> contests.
>
> Thinking of a Garmin handheld that could be turned on, tossed in the
> back of the cockpit, then downloaded after the flight.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Kirk
> 66

I have been getting together some "loggers" for just this purpose.
We're promoting XC soaring in our club this year.

I have several Palm Tungsten T PDA units and have recently found
several Magellan M500 Companion backpack-style GPS units to use with
the Palms. Add the FREE SoaringPilot software and not only do you have
a logger but a glide computer system as well. Total cost will be
around $100 for the whole system, if you're careful and watch Ebay.

The units will run for over 4 hours on their own batteries or the GPS
will provide power to the Palm if connected to a 12 volt supply. They
are very compact and portable from glider to glider.

The software is available from this site:
http://www.soaringpilot.org/

search the wiki for details on the operation and various setup
options.

Mike

[ContestID67]

I did a similar thing for my club but we only use FAI sanctioned
loggers. Why? Because a standard GPS cannot be use for badges (and
records), which is a critical. If you don't fulfill this need, I
think that your members will be very upset when you have to tell them
that their great flight can't be used for anything but the OLC.

One other point is the "tossing" part. Any GPS needs a clear view of
the sky. While fiberglass doesn't stop the signal, aluminum (L-23,
etc) will. Therefore mounting becomes quite important.

See my web site http://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders.html
for more details and pictures.

Good luck, John DeRosa

[Cats]

On Mar 23, 8:33*pm, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> Looking for ideas on a basic logger for a glider club - something that
> will make .igc compatible log files (for OLC and SeeYou) and local
> contests.
>
> Thinking of a Garmin handheld that could be turned on, tossed in the
> back of the cockpit, then downloaded after the flight.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Kirk
> 66

Personally I think your members should deal with the moving map
aspects themselves, and would suggest and EW MicroRecorder as it's
traces will be valid for all badge claims. If fed with 12v from the
glider's supply it will output 5v to drive whatever PDA is attached.
It's simple to download to any PC with a USB port, and if you get the
version with an SD card everyone can take their own traces away easily
and the logger can stay in the glider all day. You could provide a
standard interface via a 9-pin D-Sub for people to use as an interface
for whatever PDA they choose.

However I realise this might be an unacceptable route because of cost,
if you are a small club.

If you go the Garmin route, check the FAI documentation to make sure
you choose one on their approved list - I believe the 12XL is one -
but I can't find the list at the FAI website...

[Uri]

Mike,
You may find the Magellan GPS Companion inserts too much electronic
noise into the radio (can eaily open the squelch on a Dittel FSG-40S)
when supplied with external 12V. The remedy we found (after lots of
false attempts) is easy: just feed it with 9V istead. You can use a
7809 chip - center pin is common (negative) ground, a pin on one side
to the positive 12V source, the other to the GPS (center) connector.
For the GPS connector, use the "H type" connector from Radio Shack...

The 7809 is nice, does all the work, doesn't even need a eat sink for
the power the GPS needs, and includes curren protection as well...

SoaringPilot Rocks!

Uri
ASW-20
4X-GGG


On Mar 24, 3:43*am, SoaringXCellence > wrote:
> On Mar 23, 1:33*pm, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
>
> > Looking for ideas on a basic logger for a glider club - something that
> > will make .igc compatible log files (for OLC and SeeYou) and local
> > contests.
>
> > Thinking of a Garmin handheld that could be turned on, tossed in the
> > back of the cockpit, then downloaded after the flight.
>
> > Suggestions?
>
> > Kirk
> > 66
>
> I have been getting together some "loggers" for just this purpose.
> We're promoting XC soaring in our club this year.
>
> I have several Palm Tungsten T PDA units and have recently found
> several Magellan M500 Companion backpack-style GPS units to use with
> the Palms. Add the FREE SoaringPilot software and not only do you have
> a logger but a glide computer system as well. *Total cost will be
> around $100 for the whole system, if you're careful and watch Ebay.
>
> The units will run for over 4 hours on their own batteries or *the GPS
> will provide power to the Palm if connected to a 12 volt supply. *They
> are very compact and portable from glider to glider.
>
> The software is available from this site:http://www.soaringpilot.org/
>
> search the wiki for details on the operation and various setup
> options.
>
> Mike

[Papa3]

On Mar 23, 4:33*pm, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> Looking for ideas on a basic logger for a glider club - something that
> will make .igc compatible log files (for OLC and SeeYou) and local
> contests.
>
> Thinking of a Garmin handheld that could be turned on, tossed in the
> back of the cockpit, then downloaded after the flight.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Kirk
> 66

Any of the self-contained Garmin units (e.g. the 76 series) can be had
for just over $100 on eBay. Add a RAM mount (e.g. the suction-cup
model) and you have a moving map and logger all in one that is also
very, very robust. SeeYou knows how to connect and will output
nice .IGC files for the OLC and for local contests. I've been
using mine as a backup for 3 years now and it has worked flawlessly.
It is important that it be properly mounted so that the antenna has a
clear view of the sky, so I wouldn't recommend just tossing it in the
side pouch.

I do like the PDA-based versions, but for club use, I have to wonder
whether the slightly more fragile bits and pieces will stay
together...

Obviously, for badge or record work, you need to step up to the IGC-
approved level. But you already knew that :-)

P3

[ContestID67]

P3 had it right about the fragility of some logger or PDA systems in a
club environment. I tried to bullet-proof the system I made for our
club (which I mentioned in a previous post).

I uploaded my club's manual on the use of our EW Recorder flight
logger system to http://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders.

Enjoy, John "67" DeRosa

[Cats]

On Mar 24, 4:29*pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
> P3 had it right about the fragility of some logger or PDA systems in a
> club environment. *I tried to bullet-proof the system I made for our
> club (which I mentioned in a previous post).
>
> I uploaded my club's manual on the use of our EW Recorder flight
> logger system tohttp://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders..


I read your documentation, and noticed you are recommending mounting
the antennae on the canopy in your club gliders. Have you checked to
see it won't impede ejecting the canopy?

[vontresc]

On Mar 24, 12:23*pm, Cats > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 4:29*pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
>
> > P3 had it right about the fragility of some logger or PDA systems in a
> > club environment. *I tried to bullet-proof the system I made for our
> > club (which I mentioned in a previous post).
>
> > I uploaded my club's manual on the use of our EW Recorder flight
> > logger system tohttp://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders.
>
> I read your documentation, and noticed you are recommending mounting
> the antennae on the canopy in your club gliders. *Have you checked to
> see it won't impede ejecting the canopy?

I don't remember seeing anything with regards to the IGC meeting and
off the shelf GPS use for badge flying. What was the outcome of that?

Pete

[ContestID67]

I Originally Wrote: I uploaded my club's manual on the use of our EW
Recorder flight
logger system to http://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders.

"Cats" Commented > I read your documentation, and noticed you are
recommending mounting
the antennae on the canopy in your club gliders. *Have you checked to
see it won't impede ejecting the canopy?

I reply:: A valid concern. The antenna bracket is held to the canopy
with 4 small suction cups.
While they do stay suck quite well (as the antenna is very light
weight), the cups come
off very easily with only a modicum of force and the canopy will
certainly eject quite
fast when it encounters a high wind load.. As you can imagine, I
haven't tested this.

Along the same idea, I have seen PDA's attached to the canopy and
feel
that this is an especially bad idea for the same reason you mention,
the canopy might not
eject properly. The PDA is typically firmly mechanically mounted to
the canopy rail or
large suction devices to the canopy itself. Either way it will NOT
give way at all easily.
The PDA cable is generally pretty stought and firmly connected to the
PDA to
prevent it from dislodging during flight. If you think that the cable
will break, try it
yourself. You will find it more difficult than you imagine.

The extreme case of all this would be the canopy ejecting to the side
and staying attached, which would fairly quickly put you into a tight
turn, spiral or even a spin.
All in all, not the situation you want to be in while trying to bail
out. If you must do this, then
please put in a slide disconnect of some sort which will easily pull
free during an eject
but stay connected during flight.

Good luck and stay safe.

- John "67" DeRosa

[Cats]

On Mar 25, 3:20*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
> I Originally Wrote: *I uploaded my club's manual on the use of our EW
> Recorder flight
> logger system tohttp://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders..
>
> "Cats" Commented > *I read your documentation, and noticed you are
> recommending mounting
> the antennae on the canopy in your club gliders. *Have you checked to
> see it won't impede ejecting the canopy?
>
> I reply:: A valid concern. *
<snip>

I ask because of the eventual outcome of a fatal accident in the UK:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publications/bulletins/january_2008/scheibe_sf27_glider__hgm_and_schleicher_asw_19_gli der__gdp.cfm
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2q95u7


Also there is a report on an accident to a DG505:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publications/bulletins/february_2008/dg505_elan_orion__bga_4432_jdn.cfm
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/32zz5y

[st4s03]

I have been using a Garmin 60CS.( a bunch available on Ebay) It has a
pressure altimiter, track recording, moving map etc. I placed some
velcro on the back and wrap a velcro strap on my leg. This lets me
easily see and reach the unit. It has a "Glide Ratio" function. I mark
the field as a waypoint and set the altitude of the waypoint at 1200'
above the real elevation . Just before take off I set the unit to
navigate to the waypoint. On one page it will give me my current
glide ratio (instantaneous) and the glide ratio back to the field
(waypoint) at 1200' agl (plus current ground speed and compass
pointer). It's a great tool for estimating final glide. At the end of
the day I can download the flight and translate it to IGC, and run it
through See You.

On Mar 23, 2:33*pm, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> Looking for ideas on a basic logger for a glider club - something that
> will make .igc compatible log files (for OLC and SeeYou) and local
> contests.
>
> Thinking of a Garmin handheld that could be turned on, tossed in the
> back of the cockpit, then downloaded after the flight.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Kirk
> 66

[ContestID67]

I updated my web site with more details on the building of the clear
plastic housing for an EW Microrecorder.

http://www.geocities.com/jhderosa/aviation/flightrecorders

I'd be interested in your opinions. Would this make a good Soaring
article?

Thanks, John<at>derosaweb.com

[kirk.stant]

What altitude is recorded in the IGC log by Garmins that have a
pressure altimeter?

I used to use the Glide Ratio function a lot when my primary GPS was a
Garmin Pilot 3 - loved it! I now have my SeeYou Mobile map setup to
display L/D to reachable airports in preference to arrival altitude.
Of course, you do have to have a good feeling for what your glider
will do...

Do other non-aviation handheld Garmins have the Glide Ratio feature?

Kirk
66

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

kirk.stant wrote:
> What altitude is recorded in the IGC log by Garmins that have a
> pressure altimeter?

It is "pressure" altitude, but exactly what that means is dependent on
the currently selected altimeter calibration mode...

Marc