Flight to Florida -- The Cure for Winter

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

6 days, 16.5 hours of flying, 2500 miles, all VFR. The perfect escape from a
brutal Iowa winter!

Here are few PIREPS from the journey:

- Thanks to great weather and a nice tailwind, I climbed to 5500 feet,
leveled out -- and never changed course or altitude again till we touched
down 4.8 hours later. We could easily have made Florida in five hours
non-stop, a new record for us.

- Following Jim Burns' advice, we stopped short in Bay-Minett, Alabama for
fuel. This is a WONDERFUL place to stop, with a great FBO, incredibly
helpful and friendly people, reasonably priced MOGAS (thank God!), and nice
long runways. Tanking up there saved us over $100 compared to Pensacola
fuel prices.

- Pensacola has a nice airport, but I'm really glad we stopped short in
Bay-Minett to buy fuel. The folks in Pensacola barely looked up from their
paper, didn't have a line-guy tell us where to park, didn't move a muscle to
help us carry a ton of luggage (or offer a cart), didn't tie us down, and
generally regarded us as a somewhat amusing nuisance on their ramp. We won't
return.

- The Naval Aviation Museum at the Pensacola Naval Air Station is fantastic.
The fact that the Navy moved the old Cubi Bar from our now-abandoned Subic
Bay Naval Base in the Philippines -- and I mean EVERYTHING, from the
squadron plaques right down to the barstools -- made it all the better. This
museum was the last one of our "must-see-before-we die" aviation museums in
the US -- now we have to start on Europe.

- St. Petersburg's downtown airport, Albert Whittig, is every bit as cool as
Meigs Field in Chicago was! Landing on that little 2800 foot by 100 foot
wide runway, I was surprised to see SAILBOATS at the end of the runway! And,
yes, they were in the water. Precision is rewarded.

- St. Pete's Beach, on a little barrier island in the Gulf, just off-shore
from St. Petersburg, is an outstanding place to recover from winter. I
wouldn't want to live there, but miles of white sand beach and mid-80s sure
felt good.

- Thanks to Jim, who's as Irish as they come, we managed to find not one
but TWO great Irish pubs (one in Pensacola, one in St. Pete) where we could
celebrate St. Patty's day, his birthday, and their wedding anniversary.
Another great use for the internet!

- Muscle Shoals, AL is always a nice place to stop for fuel. Great,
under-utilized facility, nice people, relatively cheap fuel. We always stop
there on our way back from Florida.

- Spirit of St. Louis has a nice airport, and the Jet Corp FBO is extremely
nice -- but they are used to the jet crowd. We paid $5.20 per gallon for
100LL! Next time, we won't simply taxi into the closest FBO when there are
several to choose from. (We knew when we saw the *free* Starbucks coffee
and individually custom wrapped, fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies that we
were in for a world of hurt -- but it sure was a nice place.)

- The flooding in Missouri was incredible. After flying over a "normal"
Mississippi River one day, and then (just 5 days later) flying over after
15" of rain, the difference was amazing. We saw many isolated farmhouses,
and lots of Coast Guard helicopter performing rescue work. (They were
staging out of KSUS)

- If you've never been to City Museum in St. Louis, make plans now. This
was our third visit, and we always leave wanting more. It's an
indescribable place, sorta like a museum on acid -- but where else would
they stick an old LearJet on a four story pole, and then weld up re-bar
coils to let kids (and us bigger kids) safely climb up to it?

Florida ain't cheap, but, boy did it feel good to hit the beach for a day or
two. We made it down in record time (thanks to our 84 gallon fuel load) and
truly enjoyed a few days away from the late-winter Midwest.

Click to view pix from our flight:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/2008_florida_trip.htm

Blue skies!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[NVArt]

Nice post as usual, Jay. Thanx. It's probably the only way this old
Walter Mitty is gonna get to FL.

[The Visitor]

Nice post, thanks.
That Lear Jet at the museum is fantastic!!!

John

Jay Honeck wrote:
> 6 days, 16.5 hours of flying, 2500 miles, all VFR. The perfect escape from a
> brutal Iowa winter!
>
> Here are few PIREPS from the journey:
>
> - Thanks to great weather and a nice tailwind, I climbed to 5500 feet,
> leveled out -- and never changed course or altitude again till we touched
> down 4.8 hours later. We could easily have made Florida in five hours
> non-stop, a new record for us.
>
> - Following Jim Burns' advice, we stopped short in Bay-Minett, Alabama for
> fuel. This is a WONDERFUL place to stop, with a great FBO, incredibly
> helpful and friendly people, reasonably priced MOGAS (thank God!), and nice
> long runways. Tanking up there saved us over $100 compared to Pensacola
> fuel prices.
>
> - Pensacola has a nice airport, but I'm really glad we stopped short in
> Bay-Minett to buy fuel. The folks in Pensacola barely looked up from their
> paper, didn't have a line-guy tell us where to park, didn't move a muscle to
> help us carry a ton of luggage (or offer a cart), didn't tie us down, and
> generally regarded us as a somewhat amusing nuisance on their ramp. We won't
> return.
>
> - The Naval Aviation Museum at the Pensacola Naval Air Station is fantastic.
> The fact that the Navy moved the old Cubi Bar from our now-abandoned Subic
> Bay Naval Base in the Philippines -- and I mean EVERYTHING, from the
> squadron plaques right down to the barstools -- made it all the better. This
> museum was the last one of our "must-see-before-we die" aviation museums in
> the US -- now we have to start on Europe.
>
> - St. Petersburg's downtown airport, Albert Whittig, is every bit as cool as
> Meigs Field in Chicago was! Landing on that little 2800 foot by 100 foot
> wide runway, I was surprised to see SAILBOATS at the end of the runway! And,
> yes, they were in the water. Precision is rewarded.
>
> - St. Pete's Beach, on a little barrier island in the Gulf, just off-shore
> from St. Petersburg, is an outstanding place to recover from winter. I
> wouldn't want to live there, but miles of white sand beach and mid-80s sure
> felt good.
>
> - Thanks to Jim, who's as Irish as they come, we managed to find not one
> but TWO great Irish pubs (one in Pensacola, one in St. Pete) where we could
> celebrate St. Patty's day, his birthday, and their wedding anniversary.
> Another great use for the internet!
>
> - Muscle Shoals, AL is always a nice place to stop for fuel. Great,
> under-utilized facility, nice people, relatively cheap fuel. We always stop
> there on our way back from Florida.
>
> - Spirit of St. Louis has a nice airport, and the Jet Corp FBO is extremely
> nice -- but they are used to the jet crowd. We paid $5.20 per gallon for
> 100LL! Next time, we won't simply taxi into the closest FBO when there are
> several to choose from. (We knew when we saw the *free* Starbucks coffee
> and individually custom wrapped, fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies that we
> were in for a world of hurt -- but it sure was a nice place.)
>
> - The flooding in Missouri was incredible. After flying over a "normal"
> Mississippi River one day, and then (just 5 days later) flying over after
> 15" of rain, the difference was amazing. We saw many isolated farmhouses,
> and lots of Coast Guard helicopter performing rescue work. (They were
> staging out of KSUS)
>
> - If you've never been to City Museum in St. Louis, make plans now. This
> was our third visit, and we always leave wanting more. It's an
> indescribable place, sorta like a museum on acid -- but where else would
> they stick an old LearJet on a four story pole, and then weld up re-bar
> coils to let kids (and us bigger kids) safely climb up to it?
>
> Florida ain't cheap, but, boy did it feel good to hit the beach for a day or
> two. We made it down in record time (thanks to our 84 gallon fuel load) and
> truly enjoyed a few days away from the late-winter Midwest.
>
> Click to view pix from our flight:
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/2008_florida_trip.htm
>
> Blue skies!

[Robert A. Barker]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:NWrHj.96911$yE1.61751@attbi_s21...
>6 days, 16.5 hours of flying, 2500 miles, all VFR. The perfect escape from
>a brutal Iowa winter!
>
> Here are few PIREPS from the journey:
>

Jay: Great story and pics.Let's hope it warms up
here in the northeast soon.

Bob Barker N8749S

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Well...Thanks Pal... I'm just a couple of miles up the road from St Pete
> and you don't even want to have a beer?.... I'll remember this.

Sorry, Bob -- that really WAS stupid of us!

In our defense, we really, honestly didn't know we were headed to Florida
until the morning we left -- and we were meeting Jim & Tami there, and it
was their anniversary, and we were thinking of finding ...

Oh, hell...okay, I've got nuthin'. I just plain forgot you were in that
neck of the woods, Bob. I therefore owe you TWO fruity/girly drinks (with
umbrellas in them) at the next Sun N Fun we attend...or, if you EVER make it
up to OSH, dinner at Friar Tucks is on us!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> That Lear Jet at the museum is fantastic!!!

Isn't that a kick? City "Museum" (or whatever the heck you call it -- it's
so much more than a traditional museum) is the most amazing place I've ever
been. Their newest addition is a huge 1926 Wurlitzer pipe organ that --
when played inside that six-story former shoe factory -- sounds absolutely
phantom-of-the-opera astounding...

If you ever get to St. Louis, check City Museum out. No pictures or words
can adequately describe the place.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

I thought you said it was global warming, the cure for winter...

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:1HCHj.97663$yE1.68829@attbi_s21:

>> That Lear Jet at the museum is fantastic!!!
>
> Isn't that a kick? City "Museum" (or whatever the heck you call it --
> it's so much more than a traditional museum) is the most amazing place
> I've ever been. Their newest addition is a huge 1926 Wurlitzer pipe
> organ that -- when played inside that six-story former shoe factory
> -- sounds absolutely phantom-of-the-opera astounding...
>
> If you ever get to St. Louis, check City Museum out. No pictures or
> words can adequately describe the place.

Great aviationcontenet, there, Jaybo.


Bertie

[Longworth[_1_]]

On Mar 29, 9:59*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> 6 days, 16.5 hours of flying, 2500 miles, all VFR. The perfect escape from a
> brutal Iowa winter!
> - Thanks to great weather and a nice tailwind, I climbed to 5500 feet,
> leveled out -- and never changed course or altitude again till we touched

Jay,

Thank you for the great pirep. With the report of all VFR in 6 days
of flying, you convinced us that it can be safe to make the trip from
NY to Florida this time of the year. We have always wanted to make
the trip in early spring but were quite leery of weather. In the
Northeast, weather swings wildly this time of the year.

An example of this was our short flight of 126nm from Poughkeepsie,
NY to Nashua, NH for the New England Aviation Safety Expo yesterday.
Both TAFs and other weather sites predicted perfect VFR weather. We
planned for both IFR and VFR just in case. Sure enough the next
morning a totally unpredicted snow squall visited KPOU leaving snow
flakes on top of the frost on the wing. It blew over quickly but our
departure was delayed by over an hour.

Rick did not want to file IFR since we were legal but did feel
proficient enough and there was always strong icing possibility if we
ever got in the clouds. So we departed VFR climbing to 7500' following
the IFR route and tuning in approach frequencies to practice our
instrument flying skills. Less than half an hour into the trip, we had
to descend to 5500' to conform to cloud separation rule. Before long,
we had to go down to 3500'. About 15 miles to our destination, even
though ATIS stated 4000' broken ceiling, the cloud and mist was down
to 2000' and the terrain was rising.

To avoid scud running, we had no choice but to find a blue hole to
circle up (the commercial chandelles would be handy but Rick did not
think it was needed). I called Boston approach and asked for a popup
IFR clearance to descend back down through the cloud. They told us to
maintain VFR at 5000' with a 360 heading. This would get us into to
cloud so Rick circled inside our little blue hole to remain VFR. ATC
got back and asked us why we were heading south! Once they learned of
the situation they quickly gave us IFR clearance and vectored us
around to avoid the paths of other aircrafts. One of them was
supposedly VFR and stated that he could not see us! I told approach
that we were in the cloud at 4000'.

So Rick got about 20 minutes of real IMC since it was not VFR until
we got down to around 1500' with the airport about 4 miles straight
ahead. ATIS still gave a rosy scenario of 4000' broken ceiling and
visibility of 10 miles or so but it was quite misty with some snow
flurries. During the time we were in the cloud, I nervously monitored
the meat thermometer for icing signs and was quite relieved to find
none.

The trip back was perfect VFR all the way. I stayed at 8500' to be
above the layer of scattered clouds at 6000' and calm flying
condition. It was perfect to maintain my goal of
2degrees-2knots-20feet variations. About 30 miles to KPOU, I started
to descend and it was bumpy all the way down. I did a short field
landing on 33 with wind at 35, 9knots gusting to 20. It was a routine
landing with all the landing practices that we had done for the
commercial check rides.

I am quite curious on your reason of staying at 5500 feet for the
entire trip. Was it because of the ceiling? If there was no ceiling
problem, I'd think that flying at 7500 would be calmer and more fuel
efficient especially with a tail wind.

I will save your post for our future Florida trips.

Regards,

Hai Longworth

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I will save your post for our future Florida trips.

The secret to doing long, multi-day VFR cross country flights is to be
relaxed and flexible about your ultimate destination. Remember, we always
have three destinations flight-planned, and choose the one with the best
long-range weather prognosis on our day of departure. Thus, even though we
once again hoped to go to the Hangar Hotel in Texas, for the third spring in
a row we scrubbed the idea and headed direct to Florida, thanks to
nasty-looking predicted weather in the Texas panhandle.

The other "secret" (although it's hardly rare) is to have XM weather. With
that incredible tool on board, we know what we're flying toward hours in
advance, and can make adjustments accordingly.

For example, we left Pensacola (heading South to St. Pete) with conditions
marginal VFR and deteriorating. However, with XM weather (and a thorough
pre-flight weather briefing), we knew that flying North (away from the gulf,
which was pumping the moisture on-shore, causing the lowering
visibility/ceiling) would get us quickly into nice VFR, and then (at
Tallahassee) we could hang a right and head straight south in good (if
incredibly turbulent) VFR. From Tallahassee South, ceilings were 3500
scattered-to-broken, and the view of the gulf was fantastic.

I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because I'd be
trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio briefing (IF
you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd have no idea of the
"big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully for you.

With XM, however, it was just another routine flight. Not comfortable,
thanks to the bumps (and, yes, it would have been nice to have gone on top
of the layer, where conditions were reported to be smooth by Jim & Tami, who
were IFR in their Aztec), but entirely safe.

Re: Flying at 5500 feet, my lovely wife has corrected me -- we *did* climb
to 7500 feet after departing Iowa City, and never deviated again until we
landed in Bay-Minett, AL.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:nsWHj.45808$TT4.14344@attbi_s22:

>> I will save your post for our future Florida trips.
>
> The secret to doing long, multi-day VFR cross country flights is to be
> relaxed and flexible about your ultimate destination. Remember, we
> always have three destinations flight-planned, and choose the one with
> the best long-range weather prognosis on our day of departure. Thus,
> even though we once again hoped to go to the Hangar Hotel in Texas,
> for the third spring in a row we scrubbed the idea and headed direct
> to Florida, thanks to nasty-looking predicted weather in the Texas
> panhandle.
>
> The other "secret" (although it's hardly rare) is to have XM weather.
> With that incredible tool on board, we know what we're flying toward
> hours in advance, and can make adjustments accordingly.
>
> For example, we left Pensacola (heading South to St. Pete) with
> conditions marginal VFR and deteriorating. However, with XM weather
> (and a thorough pre-flight weather briefing), we knew that flying
> North (away from the gulf, which was pumping the moisture on-shore,
> causing the lowering visibility/ceiling) would get us quickly into
> nice VFR, and then (at Tallahassee) we could hang a right and head
> straight south in good (if incredibly turbulent) VFR. From
> Tallahassee South, ceilings were 3500 scattered-to-broken, and the
> view of the gulf was fantastic.
>
> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because I'd
> be trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio
> briefing (IF you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd
> have no idea of the "big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully
> for you.

Good God, where is aviation heading?

Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 8:42 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because I'd be
> trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio briefing (IF
> you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd have no idea of the
> "big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully for you.

Wait -- are you serious?

While in flight weather provides localized details of the changes in
weather after the preflight briefing, ANY pilot should have the big
and little pictures in his/her head before launching anytime, period.

In Flight wx data should simply confirm what you expect to happen, or
help educate you on how your interpretation/prognostics were wrong.

XM doesn't provide the depth of information available here:
http://aviationweather.gov/

And if you're relying on XM in lieu of a Standard wx brief, you're in
violation of the CFRs.


Dan Mc

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because I'd be
>> trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio briefing (IF
>> you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd have no idea of
>> the
>> "big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully for you.
>
> Wait -- are you serious?

Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we would have stayed in
Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from Pensacola to St. Pete was
completely routine.

> XM doesn't provide the depth of information available here:
> http://aviationweather.gov/

No one said it did. But it provides more than enough in-flight information
to make flying MUCH safer and more relaxing.

In my time, three things have utterly changed flying for the better:

1. GPS
2. ANR technology
3. XM weather

> And if you're relying on XM in lieu of a Standard wx brief, you're in
> violation of the CFRs.

As stated in my post, we obtained a standard weather briefing, as we do
before any flight.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 9:51 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:


> XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
> unparalleled in GA aircraft.

Yes, but...

You -- as a pilot -- should have that "picture" in your mind, and be
able to predict the changes, rates of changes, and the impact of those
changes on your flight.

XM will help you adjust that picture, and should help you acquire that
skill more rapidly IF you take the approach that YOU have to know, and
not rely on the XM.

The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.

Curmudgeon lament follows:

I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
and yellow.

We should call them Crayola-viators.

Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:WsXHj.45877$TT4.30055@attbi_s22:

>>> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because
>>> I'd be trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio
>>> briefing (IF you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd
>>> have no idea of the
>>> "big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully for you.
>>
>> Wait -- are you serious?
>
> Completely. XM weather gives y

Thanks be to God it will only be a Cherokee you destroy.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in news:1777fa59-5a2d-4171-af7f-
:

> On Mar 30, 9:51 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>> XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
>> unparalleled in GA aircraft.
>
> Yes, but...
>
> You -- as a pilot -- should have that "picture" in your mind, and be
> able to predict the changes, rates of changes, and the impact of those
> changes on your flight.
>
> XM will help you adjust that picture, and should help you acquire that
> skill more rapidly IF you take the approach that YOU have to know, and
> not rely on the XM.
>
> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>
> Curmudgeon lament follows:
>
> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> and yellow.
>
> We should call them Crayola-viators.
>


I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.

Bertie
>
>
>
>

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> Dan > wrote in news:1777fa59-5a2d-4171-af7f-
> :
>
>> On Mar 30, 9:51 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
>>> unparalleled in GA aircraft.
>>
>> Yes, but...
>>
>> You -- as a pilot -- should have that "picture" in your mind, and be
>> able to predict the changes, rates of changes, and the impact of those
>> changes on your flight.
>>
>> XM will help you adjust that picture, and should help you acquire that
>> skill more rapidly IF you take the approach that YOU have to know, and
>> not rely on the XM.
>>
>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>>
>> Curmudgeon lament follows:
>>
>> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
>> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
>> and yellow.
>>
>> We should call them Crayola-viators.
>>
>
>
> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.
>

We have a name for lamers like guys too - dinosaurs.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> and yellow.
>
> We should call them Crayola-viators.

That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in a
single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period, during the
most weather-variable time of year, using the best technology available --
and you're saying that using this technology makes me a "crayola-viator"?

You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in news:faYHj.45315$f8.11862
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Dan > wrote in news:1777fa59-5a2d-4171-af7f-
>> :
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 9:51 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
>>>> unparalleled in GA aircraft.
>>>
>>> Yes, but...
>>>
>>> You -- as a pilot -- should have that "picture" in your mind, and be
>>> able to predict the changes, rates of changes, and the impact of
those
>>> changes on your flight.
>>>
>>> XM will help you adjust that picture, and should help you acquire
that
>>> skill more rapidly IF you take the approach that YOU have to know,
and
>>> not rely on the XM.
>>>
>>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>>>
>>> Curmudgeon lament follows:
>>>
>>> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
>>> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the
red
>>> and yellow.
>>>
>>> We should call them Crayola-viators.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.
>>
>
> We have a name for lamers like guys too - dinosaurs.
>
>
>

So, you admit to being one of the lusers who cant fly without electronic
crutches?

good for you. Relaising this is the first step towards realising you'll
soon be a statistic.

BTW, When I was a young pilot, I didn't see any of the previous
generation as dinosaurs.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:QaYHj.45927$TT4.12175@attbi_s22:

>> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
>> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
>> and yellow.
>>
>> We should call them Crayola-viators.
>
> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in
> a single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period,
> during the most weather-variable time of year, using the best
> technology available -- and you're saying that using this technology
> makes me a "crayola-viator"?
>
> You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.

No, he's an aviator, and you are an idiot.


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.

I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find absolutely no
merit in any part of it. In fact, it illustrates such an ignorance of VFR
cross-country flying that I find it hard that a real pilot would post such a
thing.

Weather is a dynamic, ever-changing thing. If you're flying anywhere near a
front, as we were on this flight, over a five-hour duration (at spam-can
speeds of 170 mph), you cannot "already know" the weather without XM.

Without XM you can look out the window, you can call Flight Service, and you
can try to extrapolate the weather predictions you received from a briefer
five hours ago -- but you cannot "know" it in any way -- EXCEPT with XM
weather on board.

Which is what makes VFR cross-country flying much more possible (and
comfortable) nowadays than it was just a few years ago. Anyone who says
otherwise has either never flown cross-country VFR, or is so used to
flipping on the autopilot and droning along airways that they've completely
forgotten what this kind of flying is all about.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:moYHj.45940$TT4.1716@attbi_s22:

>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>
> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find absolutely
> no merit in any part of it.

It's because you're an idiot. Don't worry about it. Be happy.
Go play with your flight sim.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in news:faYHj.45315$f8.11862
> @newsfe23.lga:
>
>>
>
> BTW, When I was a young pilot, I didn't see any of the previous
> generation as dinosaurs.
>
>

I don't either, unless they're as useless as you.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
> news:moYHj.45940$TT4.1716@attbi_s22:
>
>>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>>
>> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find absolutely
>> no merit in any part of it.
>
> It's because you're an idiot. Don't worry about it. Be happy.
> Go play with your flight sim.
>
>

Doesn't the pathetic little narcissist inside you just love it when people
kill file you.

You always get the last word!!!!

[Jim Logajan]

Dan > wrote:
> Curmudgeon lament follows:
>
> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> and yellow.

Absurdist lament follows from previous one:

I too object - to the outsourcing of the job of looking at colored screens
and making life-and-death decisions based on what one sees there. As we all
know, that job properly belongs to ATC!

;-)

[Longworth]

On Mar 30, 10:55 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Weather is a dynamic, ever-changing thing. If you're flying anywhere near a
> front, as we were on this flight, over a five-hour duration (at spam-can
> speeds of 170 mph), you cannot "already know" the weather without XM.
>
> Without XM you can look out the window, you can call Flight Service, and you
> can try to extrapolate the weather predictions you received from a briefer
> five hours ago -- but you cannot "know" it in any way -- EXCEPT with XM
> weather on board.
>

Jay,
I don't have XM weather yet but have witnessed its great benefit
while flying our long dual cross-country trips with an instructor (as
part of the commercial requirement). His plane is equipped with the
Garmin 430W, a stormscope and the Garmin 396. I totally agree that
weather is a dynamic, ever-changing thing and having XM weather
onboard helps with modifying your flight plan while enroute. However,
our instructor, Doug Stewart (dsflight.com), the National Flight
Instructor of the Year for 2004, kept emphasizing that XM weather
should be used as a strategic and not a tactical tool. The added
benefit of XM weather to ADDS info, duats, standard briefing, FSS is
that it gives you a much shorter term strategic plan. Two years ago
when we had to delay our trip from NY to Oshkosh a day due to
thunderstorms while Doug and another noted Aviation Safety Seminar
speaker, Bob Martens went ahead with their trip also from NY. I had
fun monitoring their flight path on flightware observing them skirting
around thunderstorm areas with the help of the stormscope and XM
weather.

I had done many cross country trips without the benefit of a GPS
(some of them not using GPS on purpose to practice our pilotage and
dead-reckoning skill). We have also flown many long trips (one all
the way from NY to CO) without the benefit of a weather tool on
board. Of course we can fly without GPS and XM weather but having
them on board will definitely make our trips much safer providing that
we follow the advice given in this AOPA article about Scott
Crossfield's accident " Don't let the equipment lead you into a place
you wouldn't go without it"

http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/2008/sp0804.html


Hai Longworth

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-03-31, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The other "secret" (although it's hardly rare) is to have XM weather. With
> that incredible tool on board, we know what we're flying toward hours in
> advance, and can make adjustments accordingly.

What are you lookign at to see what the cloud layers are like on your XM?
I've played around with my 496, and what it's showing me is great...but I
can't visualize what you're looking at to make your decisions.

This is something I'm interested in, since I'm planning a multi-day VFR trip
bringing the Zodiac home. (And yes, I'm planning to sop in Iowa City.)
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-03-31, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in a
> single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period, during the
> most weather-variable time of year, using the best technology available --
> and you're saying that using this technology makes me a "crayola-viator"?
>
> You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.

What's that line about "all available information"?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>> news:moYHj.45940$TT4.1716@attbi_s22:
>>
>>>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>>>
>>> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find
>>> absolutely no merit in any part of it.
>>
>> It's because you're an idiot. Don't worry about it. Be happy.
>> Go play with your flight sim.
>>
>>
>
> Doesn't the pathetic little narcissist inside you just love it when
> people kill file you.


Yep,. BTW, was that a question? You forgot the question mark.
>
> You always get the last word!!!!

Yes. Yes I do.


Bertie
>
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in news:BGYHj.63831$y05.4606
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in news:faYHj.45315$f8.11862
>> @newsfe23.lga:
>>
>>>
>>
>> BTW, When I was a young pilot, I didn't see any of the previous
>> generation as dinosaurs.
>>
>>
>
> I don't either, unless they're as useless as you.
>
>
>

Bwawhawhahw!

You're just a meanie, you are.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Jay Maynard > wrote in
:

> On 2008-03-31, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in
>> a single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period,
>> during the most weather-variable time of year, using the best
>> technology available -- and you're saying that using this technology
>> makes me a "crayola-viator"?
>>
>> You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.
>
> What's that line about "all available information"?

Fine. I use all sorts of gadgerts too, but I can fly without any of them if
I have to, and I only use them sparingly in any case. The biggest problem
is ending up a slave to the machines.


Bertie

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because I'd be
>>> trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio briefing
>>> (IF
>>> you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd have no idea
>>> of the
>>> "big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully for you.
>>
>> Wait -- are you serious?
>
> Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
> unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we would have stayed in
> Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from Pensacola to St. Pete was
> completely routine.

Jay, you need some remedial weather analysis and flight planning
training. I've never had XM weather (OK, one flight with a friend with
a 496) and get along fine without it. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to
have it, but it isn't worth the cost to me. It gives a little more
convenience, but I can get the same and even more information from
several sources (DUAT, intellicast, weather channel, ADDS, etc., when it
comes to preflight. Enroute I do fine with my eyes, ASOS/AWOS,
listening to ATC and FSS. I see XM as a much more convenient tool for
inflight than for preflight and can't imagine making go/no-go decisions
simply because I have XM weather.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>
> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find absolutely
> no merit in any part of it. In fact, it illustrates such an ignorance
> of VFR cross-country flying that I find it hard that a real pilot would
> post such a thing.
>
> Weather is a dynamic, ever-changing thing. If you're flying anywhere
> near a front, as we were on this flight, over a five-hour duration (at
> spam-can speeds of 170 mph), you cannot "already know" the weather
> without XM.

You can actually keep a fairly accurate picture in mind with a
combination of listening to other airplanes and ATC, checking ASOS, AWOS
and ATIS along and to the side of your route and an occasional call to
FSS, although I find the latter only occasionally necessary when in IMC.

Matt

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 10:40 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in a
> single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period, during the
> most weather-variable time of year, using the best technology available --
> and you're saying that using this technology makes me a "crayola-viator"?

You certainly are a Crayola-viator if you simply followed the magenta
line and avoided the yellow and the red.

Do those colors *mean* anything to you?

Dude -- I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
engineering job.

BUT -- and please read carefully -- VFR or IFR pilots who cannot
already "know" in their heads what the XM is displaying are poor
pilots who lack the understanding of weather required to fly cross
country.

And yeah -- I've flown XC VFR and IFR.

In VFR flight, the XM display should be used like the GPS display --
a confirmation of what you already know.

VFR is easy -- before you take off you did a full weather brief and
know where the VFR wx is and where it isn't. You know the movements of
the fronts, the dewpoints, and the topography and how it will change
what is observed now to what it will be when you get there.

Then you launch and you look out the damn windscreen and decide where
you can and can't fly.

The single most critical data XM provides to IFR flight is location
and direction of embedded cells at update rates faster than what
Center gets.

I'll repeat this to be more clear -- GPS and XM are tools that should
support/confirm/ and sometimes -- in minor ways -- correct what you --
as the pilot -- already know.

If that's not the case you are placing undue dependence on the
technology and shirking your responsibilities and legal requirements
as PIC.


Dan Mc

> You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.

Why thank you.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 10:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
> > You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.
>
> No, he's an aviator, and you are an idiot.
>
> Bertie

Why thank you. That means something coming from you!

:-)

Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in news:440d6b5a-c9e2-42dd-83b5-
:

> On Mar 30, 10:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>
>> > You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.
>>
>> No, he's an aviator, and you are an idiot.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Why thank you. That means something coming from you!
>

Hey lots of aviators aren't all that bright!
;)

Bertie giveth and Bertie taketh away.

Bertie
>
>

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 8:56 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

> > Why thank you. That means something coming from you!
>
> Hey lots of aviators aren't all that bright!
> ;)

Bright is as bright does and says.

That brings up an interesting phenomenon -- there seems to be a bias
towards intelligence -- but not too much.

We all know the "natural stick" who "get's it" quickly but never goes
past the physical skill.

Then there are the really smart ones tend to over-analyze and get
brain cramps.

Then there are the really, really dumb ones -- we should call them
"maxwells"

[Denny]

Flying VFR into marginal weather without the ability to climb into the
murk and call the nice folks on the dark room is really, really,
gambling with your life and those who are with you...
I have pushed Jay <and others> several times to get the IR...
XM will not bail someone out if the air suddenly turns opaque all
around you - and it can do that in just minutes...

A case in point: on a Sunday night we were flying West along Lake Erie
from Northern NY state with my wife, daughter and her husband and the
weather was snotty and getting worse... I had suggested we call it a
day and continue on Monday, but Luan and Mike were determined to get
home that night and kept whining... I let myself get pushed beyond my
good judgement... So there we were, 15-20 miles West of Cleveland-
Hopkins and 5 miles offshore, pitch black night, solid overcast, dead
smooth ride as promised by FSS, you could see lights sparkling along
the shore... I looked down at my Howie Keefe and shuffled pages around
so I had the proper IFR low level enroute and the approach plate for a
planned landing at Port Clinton about 40 miles ahead... This probably
took 30-45 seconds of fiddling... I looked up and saw - nothing -
nada, zilch, zippo... It was impenetrable purple in every direction...
And while I sat there with a stupid look on my face for maybe 10
seconds (I had automatically started instrument scan so no one else in
the plane noticed anything had changed) I knew the brown stuff had hit
the fan...
Long story short, FSS was apologetic when I called them later as they
had not predicted the lake to go ballistic <which didn't help me a bit
at the time>.. The FSS specialist said he had many years in the Great
Lakes and had never seen the lake just explode like it did that
night...
I already had Cleveland ATC dialed on the second radio with the volume
down <old habits>... Turned up the volume and told the nice man in the
dark room that I was wading in brown stuff... He had me climb into
the murk and gave me a vector towards the IAF for the ILS to 24L and
as I climbed and turned to that direction it only took a moment to get
the approach plate on top and dial up the ILS and the DME... As it
turned out we popped out of some scud at 7 miles from the airport and
there was a 777 off to our right shooting the ILS <he looked like a
christmas tree he had so many lights on> so I just made a curving
right and followed him down until I picked up the rabbit...

Now, could ATC have vectored me in if I were a VFR pilot? Maybe...
Maybe not... By the time they vectored a confused and scared VFR pilot
the CB that pounded across the field ten minutes after we landed might
have been a real problem...

denny

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in
:

> On Mar 30, 10:40 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in
>> a single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period,
>> during the most weather-variable time of year, using the best
>> technology available -- and you're saying that using this technology
>> makes me a "crayola-viator"?
>
> You certainly are a Crayola-viator if you simply followed the magenta
> line and avoided the yellow and the red.
>
> Do those colors *mean* anything to you?
>
> Dude -- I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
> engineering job.
>
> BUT -- and please read carefully -- VFR or IFR pilots who cannot
> already "know" in their heads what the XM is displaying are poor
> pilots who lack the understanding of weather required to fly cross
> country.
>


Exactly. All those toys are tools to be used to expand that picture, not
replace it. We're seeing more and more tits like this in the profession
and it scares me. When they're with me its fine, since I can smack then
when they're doing something I don't like, but a lot of them are left
seat now and the guy in the right subscribes to the same sort of thing.
The nav side is even more scary, IMO. I can clearly see situational
awareness decreasing as the pink string takes over completely. Guys are
starting to slavishly feed the boxes to make the pink string do what
they want without any real idea of where it is taking them in real
terms. This is basically what caused the Cali accident.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Matt Whiting > wrote in
:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because
>>>> I'd be trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio
>>>> briefing (IF
>>>> you could even get ahold of Flight Service), and you'd have no idea
>>>> of the
>>>> "big picture" that live XM paints so wonderfully for you.
>>>
>>> Wait -- are you serious?
>>
>> Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is
>> absolutely unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we would
>> have stayed in Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from Pensacola
>> to St. Pete was completely routine.
>
> Jay, you need some remedial weather analysis and flight planning
> training.

Guess that means getting back into his go kart come MSFS sim and a
couple of views of "Captains of the Clouds" before he gets to go flying
again...

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in news:0234b8dd-7e57-415a-bad8-
:

> On Mar 31, 8:56 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>> > Why thank you. That means something coming from you!
>>
>> Hey lots of aviators aren't all that bright!
>> ;)
>
> Bright is as bright does and says.
>
> That brings up an interesting phenomenon -- there seems to be a bias
> towards intelligence -- but not too much.
>
> We all know the "natural stick" who "get's it" quickly but never goes
> past the physical skill.
>
> Then there are the really smart ones tend to over-analyze and get
> brain cramps.



Yeah, I know what you mean. It's a rare guy who has all the talents in
equal and generous proportion. I can count the ones I've met on one
hand. One stands out in particualr he was a relatively famous drummer
before he went flying!


>
> Then there are the really, really dumb ones -- we should call them
> "maxwells"

I don't like to nail myself down to one name for them.

Bertie
>
>

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 9:03 am, Denny > wrote:

> Flying VFR into marginal weather without the ability to climb into the
> murk and call the nice folks on the dark room is really, really,
> gambling with your life and those who are with you...
> I have pushed Jay <and others> several times to get the IR...
> XM will not bail someone out if the air suddenly turns opaque all
> around you - and it can do that in just minutes...

Why would you settle for a level of training as a pilot that is
limited to "VFR only" unless you were staying near the patch or
limiting your trips and airplane choices?

Even if you never intend to fly IMC, the added precision, knowledge,
and overall fitting into the system that IFR provides is worth its
weight in gold.

Aviation is all about options. The IFR ticket adds a whole passel of
options.


Dan Mc

[The Visitor]

It's pretty clear to me that jay did have the big picture in his mind.
The XM kept him on top of it far better than getting updates on the
radio. XM is a too powerfull to ignore.

Will somebody make it their so reliance of data for decision making?
Sometimes yes and sometimes it will end badly. Jay wasn't doing that and
never threw out common sense and experience. His SM was just extra
information available whenever he wanted it.

Nice trip. I am going to have to git me one of them things one day.

John

Dan wrote:
> On Mar 30, 9:51 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>
>>XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
>>unparalleled in GA aircraft.
>
>
> Yes, but...
>
> You -- as a pilot -- should have that "picture" in your mind, and be
> able to predict the changes, rates of changes, and the impact of those
> changes on your flight.
>
> XM will help you adjust that picture, and should help you acquire that
> skill more rapidly IF you take the approach that YOU have to know, and
> not rely on the XM.
>
> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>
> Curmudgeon lament follows:
>
> I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> and yellow.
>
> We should call them Crayola-viators.
>
> Dan Mc
>
>
>
>

[The Visitor]

Denny wrote:


> A case in point:

weather was snotty and getting worse...

I had suggested we call it a
> day and continue on Monday,

I let myself get pushed beyond my
> good judgement..


And Jay doesn't go there.

Experience has taught me. If the winds are stronger than forcast, the wx
is moving faster than forcast too. And many others concerning the Lakes.

When you entered IMC, why not do a 180 degree turn? Why would you
think/wait for "atc to save you? I think here in Canada PP's are still
taught to do the 180 on instruments to maintain vfr. Least they succumb
in 178 seconds....

John

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 11:15 am, The Visitor >
wrote:
>
> When you entered IMC, why not do a 180 degree turn? Why would you
> think/wait for "atc to save you? I think here in Canada PP's are still
> taught to do the 180 on instruments to maintain vfr. Least they succumb
> in 178 seconds....
>
> John

US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
the PPL practical.

This is not meant to imply instrument proficiency, but rather to
provide the minimal expertise required to extricate from an
inadvertent encounter with IMC.

In the old Bonanza manuals, they recommended that a VFR pilot do a 180
using only rudder, using aileron to limit to no more than 15 degree
bank, to fly out of IMC.

The only problem with the current training requirement is that it
really doesn't prepare a VFR-only pilot for a real encounter with IMC.

Such conditions do more than all the preaching in the world to
convince them how absolutely disoriented they can get in a very short
time. The hood simply doesn't provide the disorienting cues that being
in the clouds does.

My strong recommendation is for every CFI to file IFR on a cruddy day
for one short XC and let his/her charge see what IMC is all about.

Hopefully you'll encourage him/her to continue on for the Instrument
rating, but at the very least the aspiring pilot will realize "this
ain't for me" at his/her current skill/knowledge level.

Dan Mc

[Mike[_20_]]

On Mar 29, 9:59 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> 6 days, 16.5 hours of flying, 2500 miles, all VFR. The perfect escape from a
> brutal Iowa winter!
>
> Here are few PIREPS from the journey:
>
> - Thanks to great weather and a nice tailwind, I climbed to 5500 feet,
> leveled out -- and never changed course or altitude again till we touched
> down 4.8 hours later. We could easily have made Florida in five hours
> non-stop, a new record for us.
>
> - Following Jim Burns' advice, we stopped short in Bay-Minett, Alabama for
> fuel. This is a WONDERFUL place to stop, with a great FBO, incredibly
> helpful and friendly people, reasonably priced MOGAS (thank God!), and nice
> long runways. Tanking up there saved us over $100 compared to Pensacola
> fuel prices.
>
> - Pensacola has a nice airport, but I'm really glad we stopped short in
> Bay-Minett to buy fuel. The folks in Pensacola barely looked up from their
> paper, didn't have a line-guy tell us where to park, didn't move a muscle to
> help us carry a ton of luggage (or offer a cart), didn't tie us down, and
> generally regarded us as a somewhat amusing nuisance on their ramp. We won't
> return.
>
> - The Naval Aviation Museum at the Pensacola Naval Air Station is fantastic.
> The fact that the Navy moved the old Cubi Bar from our now-abandoned Subic
> Bay Naval Base in the Philippines -- and I mean EVERYTHING, from the
> squadron plaques right down to the barstools -- made it all the better. This
> museum was the last one of our "must-see-before-we die" aviation museums in
> the US -- now we have to start on Europe.
>
> - St. Petersburg's downtown airport, Albert Whittig, is every bit as cool as
> Meigs Field in Chicago was! Landing on that little 2800 foot by 100 foot
> wide runway, I was surprised to see SAILBOATS at the end of the runway! And,
> yes, they were in the water. Precision is rewarded.
>
> - St. Pete's Beach, on a little barrier island in the Gulf, just off-shore
> from St. Petersburg, is an outstanding place to recover from winter. I
> wouldn't want to live there, but miles of white sand beach and mid-80s sure
> felt good.
>
> - Thanks to Jim, who's as Irish as they come, we managed to find not one
> but TWO great Irish pubs (one in Pensacola, one in St. Pete) where we could
> celebrate St. Patty's day, his birthday, and their wedding anniversary.
> Another great use for the internet!
>
> - Muscle Shoals, AL is always a nice place to stop for fuel. Great,
> under-utilized facility, nice people, relatively cheap fuel. We always stop
> there on our way back from Florida.
>
> - Spirit of St. Louis has a nice airport, and the Jet Corp FBO is extremely
> nice -- but they are used to the jet crowd. We paid $5.20 per gallon for
> 100LL! Next time, we won't simply taxi into the closest FBO when there are
> several to choose from. (We knew when we saw the *free* Starbucks coffee
> and individually custom wrapped, fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies that we
> were in for a world of hurt -- but it sure was a nice place.)
>
> - The flooding in Missouri was incredible. After flying over a "normal"
> Mississippi River one day, and then (just 5 days later) flying over after
> 15" of rain, the difference was amazing. We saw many isolated farmhouses,
> and lots of Coast Guard helicopter performing rescue work. (They were
> staging out of KSUS)
>
> - If you've never been to City Museum in St. Louis, make plans now. This
> was our third visit, and we always leave wanting more. It's an
> indescribable place, sorta like a museum on acid -- but where else would
> they stick an old LearJet on a four story pole, and then weld up re-bar
> coils to let kids (and us bigger kids) safely climb up to it?
>
> Florida ain't cheap, but, boy did it feel good to hit the beach for a day or
> two. We made it down in record time (thanks to our 84 gallon fuel load) and
> truly enjoyed a few days away from the late-winter Midwest.
>
> Click to view pix from our flight:
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/2008_florida_trip.htm
>
> Blue skies!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Your son didn't go with you? did you make him stay home and tend the
hotel, or did he just take all the family pictures?

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 3:43 pm, John Smith > wrote:

> Dan > wrote:
> > I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> > lines who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> > and yellow.
>
> Interesting you should say that.
> When The Little French Girl went through training with the airline she
> now flys for, one of the instructors referred to the newest crop of GA
> pilots as "children of the magenta".

Yikes.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 4:13 pm, John Smith > wrote:
>
> Dan, have you tried to find the lifted-index page on any of the weather
> websites recently?

I find this useful: http://adds.aviationweather.gov/convection/java/

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 4:03 pm, John Smith > wrote:

> I can argue both sides of the coin.
>
> If you have learned to recognize forming cloud patterns and use ATC for
> reports ahead of you along your route of flight, you can make some sound
> decisions. But, you have to know how to read the clouds, something that
> requires experience.


Thus you agree with my earlier post, "XM will help you adjust that
picture, and should help you acquire that
skill more rapidly IF you take the approach that YOU have to know, and
not rely on the XM."

Jay seems to be arguing (at least he appears to be) that XM *replaces*
this ability.


Dan Mc

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 4:17 pm, John Smith > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> Dan > wrote:
> > Then there are the really, really dumb ones -- we should call them
> > "maxwells"
>
> I hope you aren't inferring to James Clerk Maxwell?
> I am still in awe of everything can be done with his equations.

Nope, and not Maxwell Smart, either.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Dan" wrote:

>
> My strong recommendation is for every CFI to file IFR on a cruddy day
> for one short XC and let his/her charge see what IMC is all about.


Hear, hear.

What's appalling is that it never happens for many instrument students,
either.

As to the XM WX thing, I've got it, use it and love it. I don't imagine
that it makes me immune to getting killed by a CB, though. Anyone who
launches blind with the intention of playing video games with the weather is
a statistic looking for a crater.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Max]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> Dan > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Mar 30, 10:40 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>>
>>> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles in
>>> a single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period,
>>> during the most weather-variable time of year, using the best
>>> technology available -- and you're saying that using this technology
>>> makes me a "crayola-viator"?
>>
>> You certainly are a Crayola-viator if you simply followed the magenta
>> line and avoided the yellow and the red.
>>
>> Do those colors *mean* anything to you?
>>
>> Dude -- I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
>> engineering job.
>>
>> BUT -- and please read carefully -- VFR or IFR pilots who cannot
>> already "know" in their heads what the XM is displaying are poor
>> pilots who lack the understanding of weather required to fly cross
>> country.
>>
>
>
> Exactly. All those toys are tools to be used to expand that picture, not
> replace it. We're seeing more and more tits like this in the profession
> and it scares me. When they're with me its fine, since I can smack then
> when they're doing something I don't like, but a lot of them are left
> seat now and the guy in the right subscribes to the same sort of thing.
> The nav side is even more scary, IMO. I can clearly see situational
> awareness decreasing as the pink string takes over completely. Guys are
> starting to slavishly feed the boxes to make the pink string do what
> they want without any real idea of where it is taking them in real
> terms. This is basically what caused the Cali accident.
>

You two need to get with Evelyn Wood for either a refund or a refresher.
Your reading speeds seem ok, but your comprehension skills suck worse than
your attitudes.

[Max]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>> news:moYHj.45940$TT4.1716@attbi_s22:
>>>
>>>>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>>>>
>>>> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find
>>>> absolutely no merit in any part of it.
>>>
>>> It's because you're an idiot. Don't worry about it. Be happy.
>>> Go play with your flight sim.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Doesn't the pathetic little narcissist inside you just love it when
>> people kill file you.
>
>
> Yep,. BTW, was that a question? You forgot the question mark.
>>
>> You always get the last word!!!!
>
> Yes. Yes I do.
>

Cool! The poster child for drunken fat-fingered dyslexics is giving lessons.

Besides, it wasn't a question.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-03-31, Dan Luke > wrote:
> "Dan" wrote:
>> My strong recommendation is for every CFI to file IFR on a cruddy day
>> for one short XC and let his/her charge see what IMC is all about.
> Hear, hear.

Now, *this* is a very good idea. I'll have to discuss it with my friendly
neighborhood CFI. We'll do it in N55ZC, too, so I can find out in the
aircraft I'll actually be flying.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Matt Whiting]

Denny wrote:

> Now, could ATC have vectored me in if I were a VFR pilot? Maybe...
> Maybe not... By the time they vectored a confused and scared VFR pilot
> the CB that pounded across the field ten minutes after we landed might
> have been a real problem...

Would you REALLY have continued on if you didn't have the IR up your
sleeve? I definitely will press VFR a lot further now that I know I can
both fly successfully in the soup and also get a pop-up clearance if
needed. I was definitely a more cautious pilot when VFR only as I am
now. I suspect the same about Jay.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Dan wrote:
> On Mar 31, 11:15 am, The Visitor >
> wrote:
>> When you entered IMC, why not do a 180 degree turn? Why would you
>> think/wait for "atc to save you? I think here in Canada PP's are still
>> taught to do the 180 on instruments to maintain vfr. Least they succumb
>> in 178 seconds....
>>
>> John
>
> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
> the PPL practical.
>
> This is not meant to imply instrument proficiency, but rather to
> provide the minimal expertise required to extricate from an
> inadvertent encounter with IMC.

My instructor said it was supposed to be enough to scare me away from
getting into IMC! :-)

Matt

[buttman]

On Mar 30, 8:01*pm, Dan > wrote:
>
> I guess it's here *-- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> lines

Whats the difference between following a magenta line on a GPS screen,
as opposed to a white needle on a CDI or a yellow needle on a HSI?

> *who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> and yellow.

So, without onboard weather, you're not trying to avoid red and yellow
weather spots? Before XM weather and the kind, you had to tediously
transcribe information from airborne FSS weather breifings, HIWAS,
etc. onto a map or your head or whatever to determine where adverse
weather was. Now all the busy work is removed, so all you have to do
is look at the screen and it's all there. The flying is all the same.
Your weather avoidance piloting techniques are exactly the same. It's
just that information you use comes to you more efficiently.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
> the PPL practical.

Point me to that reg, please.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
> engineering job.

Really? Such as and working for whom?

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-04-01, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
>> the PPL practical.
> Point me to that reg, please.

FAR 61.109(a)(3).
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Matt W. Barrow]

"Jay Maynard" > wrote in message
...
> On 2008-04-01, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
>>> the PPL practical.
>> Point me to that reg, please.
>
> FAR 61.109(a)(3).

MX strikes again?

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> What are you lookign at to see what the cloud layers are like on your XM?
> I've played around with my 496, and what it's showing me is great...but I
> can't visualize what you're looking at to make your decisions.
>
> This is something I'm interested in, since I'm planning a multi-day VFR
> trip
> bringing the Zodiac home. (And yes, I'm planning to sop in Iowa City.)

You're gonna "sop" here, eh? I'd better get better beer!

;-)

Anyway, being VFR, what we watch specifically is ceilings and visibility
trends along the route of flight. Most states have enough AWOS reporting
stations (that appear as little triangles on the 496) that you can literally
run your cursor over each airport and graphically see ceiling and visibility
reports underneath the "live" (okay, slightly old) weather radar, painted
under the satellite photo.

It's an incredibly powerful tool. If you see an area that (for example) has
marginal VFR -- but good VFR under clear skies beyond -- you know it is safe
to proceed. In the "pre-XM" days, if we ran into a localized area of
marginal VFR we had no idea if conditions were trending worse (or better)
ahead, and would often do a precautionary -- and needless -- landing to
"wait it out".

With weather, a "picture really is worth a thousand words", and it's made
cross-country flying much safer and more relaxing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is absolutely
>> unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we would have stayed in
>> Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from Pensacola to St. Pete was
>> completely routine.
>
> Jay, you need some remedial weather analysis and flight planning training.
> I've never had XM weather (OK, one flight with a friend with a 496) and
> get along fine without it.

I'm glad for that, Matt -- but this is not the conclusion Mary and I have
made.

BTW: Your point about using XM for preflight analysis isn't relevant, since
no one uses it for that. The strength of having live weather on board is
for in-flight decision making, not pre-flight briefings.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mike Isaksen]

"John Smith" wrote ...
> ....., have you tried to find the lifted-index page on any of the weather
> websites recently?
>

I've found this site terrific for predicting 2-4 day ahead instability. But
you do have to be near one of the listed sites to use the "lifted index"
with any certainty. (is there such a thing in weather?)

http://wxmaps.org/pix/meteograms.html

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 8:37 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
> > US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
> > the PPL practical.
>
> Point me to that reg, please.

Nope, do your own research, fakeFlyBoy

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Your son didn't go with you? did you make him stay home and tend the
> hotel, or did he just take all the family pictures?

Nope, Joe was in Spain for two weeks, hitting on the chicks and supposedly
learning something about the country...

;-)

By all reports, he had a great time. (And he took EIGHTEEN HUNDRED
pictures! Like, one every minute while he was there, for criminy's sake...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 7:36 pm, John Smith > wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 4:13 pm, John Smith > wrote:
> > > Dan, have you tried to find the lifted-index page on any of the weather
> > > websites recently?
> Dan > wrote:
> > I find this useful:http://adds.aviationweather.gov/convection/java/
>
> Still not as useful as the lifted/k-indexes.

Agreed, but the data exists -- just gotta dig.


Dan Mc

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 8:18 pm, buttman > wrote:
> On Mar 30, 8:01 pm, Dan > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I guess it's here -- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
> > lines
>
> Whats the difference between following a magenta line on a GPS screen,
> as opposed to a white needle on a CDI or a yellow needle on a HSI?
>
> > who will now be looking to fly through green and avoid the red
> > and yellow.
>
> So, without onboard weather, you're not trying to avoid red and yellow
> weather spots? Before XM weather and the kind, you had to tediously
> transcribe information from airborne FSS weather breifings, HIWAS,
> etc. onto a map or your head or whatever to determine where adverse
> weather was. Now all the busy work is removed, so all you have to do
> is look at the screen and it's all there. The flying is all the same.
> Your weather avoidance piloting techniques are exactly the same. It's
> just that information you use comes to you more efficiently.

I hope to God and the FAA you are not really a CFI...

For the sake of anyone unlucky enough to share a cockpit with you.


Dan Mc

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 8:41 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
> > I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
> > engineering job.
>
> Really? Such as and working for whom?

None of your damn business, fake fly boy.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 9:35 pm, "Matt W. Barrow" >
wrote:
>
> MX strikes again?

You got it.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

WJRFlyBoy > wrote in news:zi9wrnsq5wys
:

> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>
>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
>> the PPL practical.
>
> Point me to that reg, please.
>

it's in 61



Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 9:58 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>
> BTW: Your point about using XM for preflight analysis isn't relevant, since
> no one uses it for that. The strength of having live weather on board is
> for in-flight decision making, not pre-flight briefings.


I turn on the XM on the 496 before I call the FSS, and see if the
picture they paint accords with what I'm seeing on the screen and what
I saw online on adds.

Consider it the XM calibration mode.

Dan Mc

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 10:16 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> WJRFlyBoy > wrote in news:zi9wrnsq5wys
> :
>
> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>
> >> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
> >> the PPL practical.
>
> > Point me to that reg, please.
>
> it's in 61
>
> Bertie

He doesn't know what that is, bertie.

Part 61 isn't included in MSFS.


Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

John Smith > wrote in news:jsmith-32A596.16182831032008
@news-server.columbus.rr.com:

> In article >,
> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> You call them Bertie, too?
>

Only the ones named Bertie.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Max" <luv2^fly^99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Dan > wrote in
>> news:300ce6bd-dc9c-40c7-8ad1-a1a09e90bae2
@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com
>> :
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 10:40 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's funny. I just flew my family transcontinentally 2500 miles
>>>> in a single-piston-engine spam-can, all VFR, over a six day period,
>>>> during the most weather-variable time of year, using the best
>>>> technology available -- and you're saying that using this
>>>> technology makes me a "crayola-viator"?
>>>
>>> You certainly are a Crayola-viator if you simply followed the
>>> magenta line and avoided the yellow and the red.
>>>
>>> Do those colors *mean* anything to you?
>>>
>>> Dude -- I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
>>> engineering job.
>>>
>>> BUT -- and please read carefully -- VFR or IFR pilots who cannot
>>> already "know" in their heads what the XM is displaying are poor
>>> pilots who lack the understanding of weather required to fly cross
>>> country.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Exactly. All those toys are tools to be used to expand that picture,
>> not replace it. We're seeing more and more tits like this in the
>> profession and it scares me. When they're with me its fine, since I
>> can smack then when they're doing something I don't like, but a lot
>> of them are left seat now and the guy in the right subscribes to the
>> same sort of thing. The nav side is even more scary, IMO. I can
>> clearly see situational awareness decreasing as the pink string takes
>> over completely. Guys are starting to slavishly feed the boxes to
>> make the pink string do what they want without any real idea of where
>> it is taking them in real terms. This is basically what caused the
>> Cali accident.
>>
>
> You two need to get with Evelyn Wood for either a refund or a
> refresher. Your reading speeds seem ok, but your comprehension skills
> suck worse than your attitudes.


My comnprehension is perfect. It's the poasts that are defective.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Max" <luv2^fly^99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>>> news:moYHj.45940$TT4.1716@attbi_s22:
>>>>
>>>>>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find
>>>>> absolutely no merit in any part of it.
>>>>
>>>> It's because you're an idiot. Don't worry about it. Be happy.
>>>> Go play with your flight sim.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't the pathetic little narcissist inside you just love it when
>>> people kill file you.
>>
>>
>> Yep,. BTW, was that a question? You forgot the question mark.
>>>
>>> You always get the last word!!!!
>>
>> Yes. Yes I do.
>>
>
> Cool! The poster child for drunken fat-fingered dyslexics is giving
> lessons.

I've always given lessons.
>
> Besides, it wasn't a question.
>

You see? Another lesson.


Bertie
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

buttman > wrote in news:712be2fd-c86e-4a37-ba26-
:

> On Mar 30, 8:01*pm, Dan > wrote:
>>
>> I guess it's here *-- a whole generation of pilots following magenta
>> lines
>
> Whats the difference between following a magenta line on a GPS screen,
> as opposed to a white needle on a CDI or a yellow needle on a HSI?

To you? nothing. You have no idea what you're doing in either case.


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>Before XM weather and the kind, you had to tediously
>transcribe information from airborne FSS weather breifings, HIWAS,
>etc. onto a map or your head or whatever to determine where adverse
>weather was. Now all the busy work is removed, so all you have to do
>is look at the screen and it's all there. The flying is all the same.
>Your weather avoidance piloting techniques are exactly the same. It's
> just that information you use comes to you more efficiently.

It is that, and more.

When you can see the weather actually developing and changing ahead on your
route of flight, in nearly real-time, your understanding of the weather is
increased a hundred-fold over what is possible with a pre-flight weather
briefing.

Before, we had to "paint the picture" in our heads, based on old, static,
possibly hours-old information -- and HOPE that it hadn't changed from
predicted.

Now, we know. It's that easy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-04-01, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> By all reports, he had a great time. (And he took EIGHTEEN HUNDRED
> pictures! Like, one every minute while he was there, for criminy's sake...)

Pixels are cheap. I learned that when I got my first serious digital
camera...it's easier to just blast away and sort them out later than to stop
and think about shooting. Sometimes, the results show it.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 10:23 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Now, we know. It's that easy.

Every once in a while you say something that makes me think, "Ok, this
guy might get it."

And then this...

Weather? Easy?

If you think XM is gonna save your ass as a VFR only pilot, please do
us all a favor and get your IFR and file so we look you up on
FlightAware and thereby know what airspace to avoid.

That you think XM absolves you of the hard work of comprehending the
weather and being able to predict it's effect on your flight is
downright scary. I have and use a 496 -- please tell me which function
you use to ensure you maintain VFR conditions?

There is none.

Think I'm being ridiculous?

Consider this Accident report excerpt from the Air Safety Foundation
(maybe you've heard of it?) TAA Special Report:

September 15, 2006; Cirrus SR20;
Maybell, Colorado; Likely cause: Inadequate preflight planning.

History of Flight
The private/instrument pilot and one passenger were enroute from
Tooele, Utah, to Lincoln, Nebraska. The pilot contacted air traffic
control and stated he needed a lower altitude, as he was encountering
icing conditions. Several altitude changes were assigned. Ultimately
the pilot was assigned a block altitude from 12,000 feet to 13,000
feet. The pilot reported serious icing conditions and the controller
cleared the pilot to an altitude of 11,000 feet. Shortly thereafter,
voice and radar communications with the airplane were lost.

The wreckage was located scattered over a 1.5 mile area between
Colorado and Wyoming. Evidence was consistent with a ground impact
deployment of the Cirrus's parachute recovery system, resulting in the
airplane being dragged by high winds. Examination of the airplane's
systems revealed no anomalies. Thunderstorm activity existed along
the route of flight along with severe icing and turbulence. The pilot
had not obtained a full weather briefing prior to the flight.

ASF Comments
Inadequate flight planning has long been a contributing factor in
weather-related accidents. It is possible that this pilot believed he
could rely on the onboard datalink capabilities of his advanced glass
cockpit to provide the weather information needed to safely complete
the flight.

MFDs have the ability to display a variety of weather products. Since
icing is one of the most difficult hazardous conditions to report and
forecast, this pilot may not have recognized that he was entering an
area with conditions favorable to the formation of airframe icing
until it was too late. Once the pilot lost control of the iced-up
plane, the whole airplane parachute system could have been used to
make a safe descent. It was not. The chute deployed due to impact
forces, and high surface winds dragged the aircraft on the ground for
more than 1.5 miles.


Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in
:

> On Mar 31, 10:16 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> WJRFlyBoy > wrote in news:zi9wrnsq5wys
>> :
>>
>> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>
>> >> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood"
>> >> before the PPL practical.
>>
>> > Point me to that reg, please.
>>
>> it's in 61
>>
>> Bertie
>
> He doesn't know what that is, bertie.
>
> Part 61 isn't included in MSFS.

Of course. I haven't got into tearing this one up yet. So many k00ks...



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:l0hIj.100539$yE1.18097@attbi_s21:

>>Before XM weather and the kind, you had to tediously
>>transcribe information from airborne FSS weather breifings, HIWAS,
>>etc. onto a map or your head or whatever to determine where adverse
>>weather was. Now all the busy work is removed, so all you have to do
>>is look at the screen and it's all there. The flying is all the same.
>>Your weather avoidance piloting techniques are exactly the same. It's
>> just that information you use comes to you more efficiently.
>
> It is that, and more.
>
> When you can see the weather actually developing and changing ahead on
> your route of flight, in nearly real-time, your understanding of the
> weather is increased a hundred-fold over what is possible with a
> pre-flight weather briefing.

Your undrstanding of weather is near zilch.
>
> Before, we had to "paint the picture" in our heads, based on old,
> static, possibly hours-old information -- and HOPE that it hadn't
> changed from predicted.
>
> Now, we know. It's that easy.

No it isn't, fjukkwit.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:aFgIj.100518$yE1.8863@attbi_s21:

>>> Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is
>>> absolutely unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we would
>>> have stayed in Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from
>>> Pensacola to St. Pete was completely routine.
>>
>> Jay, you need some remedial weather analysis and flight planning
>> training. I've never had XM weather (OK, one flight with a friend
>> with a 496) and get along fine without it.
>
> I'm glad for that, Matt -- but this is not the conclusion Mary and I
> have made.


It's becasue you're an idio. But then , so is Matt.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:WPgIj.47320$TT4.16086@attbi_s22:

>> Your son didn't go with you? did you make him stay home and tend the
>> hotel, or did he just take all the family pictures?
>
> Nope, Joe was in Spain for two weeks, hitting on the chicks and
> supposedly learning something about the country...
>
> ;-)
>
> By all reports, he had a great time. (And he took EIGHTEEN HUNDRED
> pictures! Like, one every minute while he was there, for criminy's
> sake...)

Good to know he took his guide's advice about not looking like a typical
american tourist. He looked like a typical japanese tourist instead.


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Flying VFR into marginal weather without the ability to climb into the
> murk and call the nice folks on the dark room is really, really,
> gambling with your life and those who are with you...

I like you, Denny, but you're stating the obvious. Flying through "marginal
VFR" when good weather is known to be ahead is not the same as flying in
"marginal weather". If you're reading that I was simply flying through
"marginal weather" by using XM, you are misreading my post.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in news:033026b4-9ada-4559-bc3b-
:

> On Mar 31, 10:23 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>> Now, we know. It's that easy.
>
> Every once in a while you say something that makes me think, "Ok, this
> guy might get it."
>
> And then this...
>
> Weather? Easy?

Well, of course it is.

Jay also believes that global warming is BS since it's been real cold
this winter!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:ZihIj.100564$yE1.41348@attbi_s21:

>> Flying VFR into marginal weather without the ability to climb into
>> the murk and call the nice folks on the dark room is really, really,
>> gambling with your life and those who are with you...
>
> I like you, Denny, but you're stating the obvious. Flying through
> "marginal VFR" when good weather is known to be ahead is not the same
> as flying in "marginal weather". If you're reading that I was simply
> flying through "marginal weather" by using XM, you are misreading my
> post.

Your overall tone and general idiocy as evidenced by mountains of posts
where you dismiss good info over and over paint a picture of an ignorant
pilot who misses the big picture in every way.

and when I say ignorant, I mean it in the purest sense of the word.



Bertie

[buttman]

On Mar 31, 8:31*pm, Dan > wrote:
>
> Think I'm being ridiculous?

I think you're trying too hard to be a part of the Bertie/Dudly
dip**** duo. Either that, or you just plain can't read.

He never not once said he relies solely on his XM weather picture to
make weather related decisions.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Two weeks and only 1800 pictures?
>
> My daughter shoots 700-800 frames in three hours at the zoo.

Clearly she has more time on her hands than I do!

I alot 60 seconds to open, evaluate, enhance, crop and save/discard each
photo. That's something like 13+ hours to save those zoo pictures...

> See her best work here:
>
> skybreeze.deviantart.com

Cool! Thanks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

buttman > wrote in news:076bb165-348c-48ad-aeb8-
:

> On Mar 31, 8:31*pm, Dan > wrote:
>>
>> Think I'm being ridiculous?
>
> I think you're trying too hard to be a part of the Bertie/Dudly
> dip**** duo.


Dudley Plays Banjo.



> Either that, or you just plain can't read.
>
> He never not once said he relies solely on his XM weather picture to
> make weather related decisions.

Wheras you couldn't make a weather related decision to come in out of
the rain.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:QphIj.100574$yE1.8946
@attbi_s21:

>> Two weeks and only 1800 pictures?
>>
>> My daughter shoots 700-800 frames in three hours at the zoo.
>
> Clearly she has more time on her hands than I do!
>
> I alot 60 seconds to open, evaluate, enhance, crop and save/discard each
> photo. That's something like 13+ hours to save those zoo pictures...

Obviously your processor is defective.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:CxhIj.100583$yE1.59010@attbi_s21:

>> That you think XM absolves you of the hard work of comprehending the
>> weather and being able to predict it's effect on your flight is
>> downright scary.
>
> My, you are an absolutist, aren't you? What has made you believe
> that simply because I own and use XM weather that I think that it
> "absolves me of comprehending the weather"?

It doesn't, but since you obviously don;'t comprehend the weather, you
obviously do believe it.


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> That you think XM absolves you of the hard work of comprehending the
> weather and being able to predict it's effect on your flight is
> downright scary.

My, you are an absolutist, aren't you? What has made you believe that
simply because I own and use XM weather that I think that it "absolves me of
comprehending the weather"?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>He never not once said he relies solely on his XM weather picture to
>make weather related decisions.

Hey! Don't confuse them with facts...it'll ruin their fun....

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mike Isaksen]

"Dan" wrote ...
> Every once in a while you say something that makes me think,
> "Ok, this guy might get it."
>
> And then this... Weather? Easy?
> If you think XM is gonna save your ass as a VFR only pilot,.....

Dan,
Friendly advice,... relax. You're on your way to usenet burnout.

State your opinion and move along,... nobody likes a ball hog at the
dunktank.

;-)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:hDhIj.47371$TT4.44487
@attbi_s22:

>>He never not once said he relies solely on his XM weather picture to
>>make weather related decisions.
>
> Hey! Don't confuse them with facts...it'll ruin their fun....
>
>:-)

Fact is , you're an idiot and too stupid to know it.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Your overall tone and general idiocy as evidenced by mountains of posts
> where you dismiss good info over and over paint a picture of an ignorant
> pilot who misses the big picture in every way.
>
> and when I say ignorant, I mean it in the purest sense of the word.
>

And yet just more mouth from and ignorant arrogant (and probably drunken)
dumb ass.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> Your overall tone and general idiocy as evidenced by mountains of
>> posts where you dismiss good info over and over paint a picture of an
>> ignorant pilot who misses the big picture in every way.
>>
>> and when I say ignorant, I mean it in the purest sense of the word.
>>
>
> And yet just more mouth from and ignorant arrogant (and probably
> drunken) dumb ass.
>
>
>
>

You can say it over and over, but it will only convince those who wish
to believe......


Just like everything else in your head.



Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>>
>>> Your overall tone and general idiocy as evidenced by mountains of
>>> posts where you dismiss good info over and over paint a picture of an
>>> ignorant pilot who misses the big picture in every way.
>>>
>>> and when I say ignorant, I mean it in the purest sense of the word.
>>>
>>
>> And yet just more mouth from and ignorant arrogant (and probably
>> drunken) dumb ass.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> You can say it over and over, but it will only convince those who wish
> to believe......
>
> Just like everything else in your head.

19

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:LHiIj.45512$f8.44623
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>>
>>>> Your overall tone and general idiocy as evidenced by mountains of
>>>> posts where you dismiss good info over and over paint a picture of
an
>>>> ignorant pilot who misses the big picture in every way.
>>>>
>>>> and when I say ignorant, I mean it in the purest sense of the word.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And yet just more mouth from and ignorant arrogant (and probably
>>> drunken) dumb ass.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You can say it over and over, but it will only convince those who
wish
>> to believe......
>>
>> Just like everything else in your head.
>
> 19
>
>
>

Awwww..


How kewt! Yer a wannabe stalker now as well.


Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 10:47 pm, buttman > wrote:

> I think you're trying too hard to be a part of the Bertie/Dudly
> dip**** duo. Either that, or you just plain can't read.

I state my own opinions without consulting with either of them -- or
you, imbecile.

But of this I'm certain -- anyone who learns to fly from you is going
to need some serious retraining and/or therapy to recover.


> He never not once said he relies solely on his XM weather picture to
> make weather related decisions.

Then you obviously haven't read his posts.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 10:58 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > That you think XM absolves you of the hard work of comprehending the
> > weather and being able to predict it's effect on your flight is
> > downright scary.
>
> My, you are an absolutist, aren't you? What has made you believe that
> simply because I own and use XM weather that I think that it "absolves me of
> comprehending the weather"?


Yeah -- I'm absolutely convinced you are relying on XM to provide you
guidance that you -- as a VFR pilot -- should not and can not rely
upon.

Yes I have a 496 with XM. I use it for IFR flight.

So please tell me which XM Data display you use to ensure you maintain
VFR conditions?




(Hint: There is none.)

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 31, 11:20 pm, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:

> State your opinion and move along,... nobody likes a ball hog at the
> dunktank.


OK, so that was funny --

When are you gonna wind up and throw?

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-03-31, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The secret to doing long, multi-day VFR cross country flights is to be
> relaxed and flexible about your ultimate destination. Remember, we always
> have three destinations flight-planned, and choose the one with the best
> long-range weather prognosis on our day of departure.

Absolutely right, and you've also got to be prepared to change heading
and destination *in flight*. I've successfully flown a VFR only 85
horsepower Cessna 140 from coast to coast in the US using that
philosophy, including over the Sierra Nevadas. (Gliding knowledge came
in handy too, slope soaring vastly increased climb rate :-))

> The other "secret" (although it's hardly rare) is to have XM weather. With
> that incredible tool on board, we know what we're flying toward hours in
> advance, and can make adjustments accordingly.

To be honest you should know that before even getting off the ground.
Most airports these days have at least a PC on an internet connection,
and I can get the 'big picture' from that.

What XM should be telling you is only the unexpected changes.

Even so, without the weather display in my 140, I could glean a lot of
information from tuning in distant AWOS/ASOS/ATIS broadcasts ahead and
to the side of my intended track. Once you've got a bit of altitude you
can hear a lot of weather broadcasts. XM is obviously a bit more
convenient, but...

> For example, we left Pensacola (heading South to St. Pete) with conditions
> marginal VFR and deteriorating. However, with XM weather (and a thorough
> pre-flight weather briefing), we knew that flying North (away from the gulf,
> which was pumping the moisture on-shore, causing the lowering
> visibility/ceiling) would get us quickly into nice VFR, and then (at
> Tallahassee) we could hang a right and head straight south in good (if
> incredibly turbulent) VFR. From Tallahassee South, ceilings were 3500
> scattered-to-broken, and the view of the gulf was fantastic.

.... you don't need XM for any of that. XM is additional information
which is nice. There's no doubt it's a great tool, but the weather
briefing already told you that, and I suspect voice weather broadcasts
would have also been good enough to fill in the gaps while in flight...

> I would NEVER have attempted that flight "pre-XM", simply because I'd be
> trying to paint a picture of weather in my head from a radio briefing (IF
> you could even get ahold of Flight Service)

....but I would, because I'd have filled in the gaps with ATIS, AWOS and
ASOS and HIWAS along the way and not even bothered the guy at the FSS.
It worked great for the many long cross countries I did in the C140,
and it's something I do on any cross country flight I make here, too.

Like GPS, XM weather is undoubtedly great, but it's an aid rather than a
necessity.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-03-31, John Smith > wrote:
> Dan, have you tried to find the lifted-index page on any of the weather
> websites recently?

Skew-T diagrams are also useful, here's a page with Skew-T plots for
the continental US:

http://weather.unisys.com/upper_air/skew/

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-03-31, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> The XM -- as GPS -- should simply confirm what you already know.
>
> I have re-read this absurd line a dozen times, and can find absolutely no
> merit in any part of it. In fact, it illustrates such an ignorance of VFR
> cross-country flying that I find it hard that a real pilot would post such a
> thing.
....
> Without XM you can look out the window, you can call Flight Service, and you
> can try to extrapolate the weather predictions you received from a briefer
> five hours ago -- but you cannot "know" it in any way -- EXCEPT with XM
> weather on board.

Of course you can!

Don't forget remote ATIS broadcasts, AWOS, ASOS, HIWAS, and center's
broadcasts of convective SIGMETs.

It might not paint as full picture as XM, but you're gravely mistaken if
you think you're helpless without XM.

As for GPS, well, it should absolutely be the case that the GPS should
only be telling you what you already know. I've flown coast-to-coast in
the USA, with no GPS. It wasn't even hard. Once you've done enough
navigating, it feels like you have your own brain-GPS so long as you
make a habit of keeping track of time and course.

> Which is what makes VFR cross-country flying much more possible (and
> comfortable) nowadays than it was just a few years ago. Anyone who says
> otherwise has either never flown cross-country VFR

I would agree it makes VFR cross country more comfortable, but not
really more possible. I've flown a lot of VFR cross country hours.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

[Mike Isaksen]

"Dan" wrote ...
>
> "Mike " wrote:
>> State your opinion and move along,... nobody likes a ball hog at the
>> dunktank.
>
> When are you gonna wind up and throw?
>

I have a 3 strikes rule for usenet; I never reply beyond three times in the
same thread. After #3 somebody (maybe me) just ain't getting it.
I've used this method since my UUnet days (using unix text editors) and
recommend it. You seem to be filling up the penny jar very quickly, and we
lose a lot of people that way IMHO.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 7:32 am, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:

> I have a 3 strikes rule for usenet; I never reply beyond three times in the
> same thread. After #3 somebody (maybe me) just ain't getting it.
> I've used this method since my UUnet days (using unix text editors) and
> recommend it. You seem to be filling up the penny jar very quickly, and we
> lose a lot of people that way IMHO.

I have this delusion that some people are reasonable and rational --
silly me.

The XM weather issue is a big deal to me -- more and more are flying
XC with this gear without having any clue of the limitations -- and
the manufacturers/service providers are certainly not going to educate
the ignorant on the product's weaknesses.

Every pilot should consider ALL data with skepticism -- whether it's
from FSS, Center, XM, or StormScope.

Even when the screen matches the windscreen, the aviator looks beyond
to see what's next, and what's driving the next.

In IMC, changes in winds, turbulence, precipitation, and visibility
all point to changes in weather that can and should be analyzed by the
pilot to add to his/her store of weather wisdom.

VFR pilots are really deluded if they thing XM provides a guarantee of
VFR conditions ahead -- it simply does not. The weather depiction page
only applies to local observations.

Making statements such as "XM makes it easy" reveals a deep and
abiding flaw -- to wit -- the pilot lacks the ability to critically
analyze what he/she sees on the little screen.


Dan Mc

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> Just like everything else in your head.

Dammit, Maxwell, I appreciate you're going to bat for me -- but will you
quit responding to this Bertie dude?

Trolls are there only raise the hackles on you back. Kill files are the
perfect solution, and many of us wouldn't even know that this twit was still
in the group EXCEPT for the fact that his drivel is visible *inside* your
responses.

I know it's tempting to take a swing at such an easy target, but try sitting
on you hands whenever you see his kind of twitter. We'll all be better off.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Yes I have a 496 with XM. I use it for IFR flight.
>
> So please tell me which XM Data display you use to ensure you maintain
> VFR conditions?
>
> (Hint: There is none.)

Precisely. Thank you for making my point.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Like GPS, XM weather is undoubtedly great, but it's an aid rather than a
> necessity.

Absolutely right. Heck, I know a guy who went coast to coast last year
without ever turning a radio. Everything beyond wings and an engine is
just fluff, in his world.

But if you want to do multi-day cross-country flights regularly, with
confidence, it's hard to beat XM in the cockpit. It simply paints a big
picture of what's ahead in-flight, and that can't be had in any other way.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 8:00 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > Yes I have a 496 with XM. I use it for IFR flight.
>
> > So please tell me which XM Data display you use to ensure you maintain
> > VFR conditions?
>
> > (Hint: There is none.)
>
> Precisely. Thank you for making my point.


Yeah, right.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 7:59 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> >> Just like everything else in your head.
>
> Dammit, Maxwell, I appreciate you're going to bat for me -- but will you
> quit responding to this Bertie dude?
>

You have maxwell on your side?

How fortunate for you....

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:13:32 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> On Mar 31, 8:41 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>> I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
>>> engineering job.
>>
>> Really? Such as and working for whom?
>
> None of your damn business, fake fly boy.

Ouch, laid off? I was going to have you meet me at NAS JAX or Mayport,
to buy you a bucket of oats on me, My Little Trick Pony.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:20:55 GMT, Mike Isaksen wrote:

> "Dan" wrote ...
>> Every once in a while you say something that makes me think,
>> "Ok, this guy might get it."
>>
>> And then this... Weather? Easy?
>> If you think XM is gonna save your ass as a VFR only pilot,.....
>
> Dan,
> Friendly advice,... relax. You're on your way to usenet burnout.
>
> State your opinion and move along,... nobody likes a ball hog at the
> dunktank.
>
> ;-)

Mike, I apologize and take my share of the blame. Dan follows me around,
which is my fault, I call him My Little Trick Pony and Oh Boy does it
get under his fur, er skin.

http://tinyurl.com/2emark

He has promised to retrieve the newsreader he wrote in 1983. I gave him
a list of free newsservers, he will be killfiling me. Soon, all this
will be over :)

I appreciate your patience with My Little Trick Pony.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:11:13 GMT, Jay Maynard wrote:

> On 2008-04-01, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
>>> the PPL practical.
>> Point me to that reg, please.
>
> FAR 61.109(a)(3).

Sorry about that Jay, I had that FAR, I was taunting My Little Trick
Pony, Dan.

http://www.carnegielibrary.org/exhibit/images/gif/trickyx.gif

Appreciate the effort and have enjoyed your description of your flight
down my way.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> :
>
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>
>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
>>> the PPL practical.
>>
>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>
>
> it's in 61
>
> Bertie

Thx, Bertie.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:36:23 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Of course. I haven't got into tearing this one up yet. So many k00ks...
>
> Bertie

Give it your best shot, Bertie.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 10:30 am, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>
> Sorry about that Jay, I had that FAR, I was taunting My Little Trick
> Pony, Dan.

Admit it, fakeFlyBoy -- you had no clue, and asking that exposed your
ignorance.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 10:33 am, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:36:23 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> > Of course. I haven't got into tearing this one up yet. So many k00ks...
>
> > Bertie
>
> Give it your best shot, Bertie.

He doesn't need to -- the more you post the more you are exposed,
fakeFlyBoy.

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:00:43 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

>> Yes I have a 496 with XM. I use it for IFR flight.
>>
>> So please tell me which XM Data display you use to ensure you maintain
>> VFR conditions?
>>
>> (Hint: There is none.)
>
> Precisely. Thank you for making my point.

Here, Jay, you get to use My Little Trick Pony picture. You won it by
getting Dan The Trick Pony to play your game.

http://tinyurl.com/2fxzee

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:04:58 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> On Apr 1, 10:33 am, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:36:23 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Of course. I haven't got into tearing this one up yet. So many k00ks...
>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Give it your best shot, Bertie.
>
> He doesn't need to -- the more you post the more you are exposed,
> fakeFlyBoy.

Thank you, My Little Trick Pony. Up, up and away we go!

http://tinyurl.com/2emark

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

WJRFlyBoy > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:36:23 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> Of course. I haven't got into tearing this one up yet. So many k00ks...
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Give it your best shot, Bertie.
>

OK, if you say so fjukktard.

But I warn you, the piddling around I do here doesn't even come close to
reflecting my best work.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

WJRFlyBoy > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:04:58 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>
>> On Apr 1, 10:33 am, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:36:23 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Of course. I haven't got into tearing this one up yet. So many
>>>> k00ks...
>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Give it your best shot, Bertie.
>>
>> He doesn't need to -- the more you post the more you are exposed,
>> fakeFlyBoy.
>
> Thank you, My Little Trick Pony. Up, up and away we go!

BTW, the "I'm making you dance" thing is the oldest k00k trick in the
book. Please start getting your ass in gear or this thing if you really
want to do it. IKYABWAI posts and crap trying to insist that I'm your
beatch will amuse me for a short time, but I expect you to get straight
to some major k00kouts PDQ. I haven't paid to much attention to you yet,
because you seem relatively boring, but with my help, I expect big
things from you.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:EspIj.47923$TT4.24425@attbi_s22:

>>> Just like everything else in your head.
>
> Dammit, Maxwell, I appreciate you're going to bat for me -- but will
> you quit responding to this Bertie dude?
>
> Trolls are there only raise the hackles on you back. Kill files are
> the perfect solution, and many of us wouldn't even know that this twit
> was still in the group EXCEPT for the fact that his drivel is visible
> *inside* your responses.
>
> I know it's tempting to take a swing at such an easy target, but try
> sitting on you hands whenever you see his kind of twitter. We'll all
> be better off.



Boy was I right about you.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:LtpIj.47925$TT4.18590
@attbi_s22:

>> Yes I have a 496 with XM. I use it for IFR flight.
>>
>> So please tell me which XM Data display you use to ensure you maintain
>> VFR conditions?
>>
>> (Hint: There is none.)
>
> Precisely. Thank you for making my point.

Wow! Now tha's some fast backpedaling.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

WJRFlyBoy > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:00:43 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>> Yes I have a 496 with XM. I use it for IFR flight.
>>>
>>> So please tell me which XM Data display you use to ensure you maintain
>>> VFR conditions?
>>>
>>> (Hint: There is none.)
>>
>> Precisely. Thank you for making my point.
>
> Here, Jay, you get to use My Little Trick Pony picture. You won it by
> getting Dan The Trick Pony to play your game.
>

Lame

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:RxpIj.47929$TT4.20785@attbi_s22:

>> Like GPS, XM weather is undoubtedly great, but it's an aid rather
>> than a necessity.
>
> Absolutely right. Heck, I know a guy who went coast to coast last
> year without ever turning a radio. Everything beyond wings and an
> engine is just fluff, in his world.
>
> But if you want to do multi-day cross-country flights regularly, with
> confidence, it's hard to beat XM in the cockpit. It simply paints a
> big picture of what's ahead in-flight, and that can't be had in any
> other way.


Bull****. Complete and utter twaddle. You are an ignoramous.



Bertie

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-04-01, Dan > wrote:
> The XM weather issue is a big deal to me -- more and more are flying
> XC with this gear without having any clue of the limitations -- and
> the manufacturers/service providers are certainly not going to educate
> the ignorant on the product's weaknesses.
>
> Every pilot should consider ALL data with skepticism -- whether it's
> from FSS, Center, XM, or StormScope.

I don't think Jay was advocating this at all. What he was advocating was
adding it to the VFR pilot's toolkit, and I see nothing at all wrong with
that.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-04-01, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> Appreciate the effort and have enjoyed your description of your flight
> down my way.

Wrong Jay. He's got an airplane; I don't, yet.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 5:15 pm, Jay Maynard > wrote:
> On 2008-04-01, Dan > wrote:
>
> > The XM weather issue is a big deal to me -- more and more are flying
> > XC with this gear without having any clue of the limitations -- and
> > the manufacturers/service providers are certainly not going to educate
> > the ignorant on the product's weaknesses.
>
> > Every pilot should consider ALL data with skepticism -- whether it's
> > from FSS, Center, XM, or StormScope.
>
> I don't think Jay was advocating this at all. What he was advocating was
> adding it to the VFR pilot's toolkit, and I see nothing at all wrong with
> that.

Whatever.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Jay Maynard > wrote in
:

> On 2008-04-01, Dan > wrote:
>> The XM weather issue is a big deal to me -- more and more are flying
>> XC with this gear without having any clue of the limitations -- and
>> the manufacturers/service providers are certainly not going to
educate
>> the ignorant on the product's weaknesses.
>>
>> Every pilot should consider ALL data with skepticism -- whether it's
>> from FSS, Center, XM, or StormScope.
>
> I don't think Jay was advocating this at all. What he was advocating
was
> adding it to the VFR pilot's toolkit, and I see nothing at all wrong
with
> that.

Jay's entire being is resistant to common sense. I see guys like him all
the time, expecting radio shack to give them a short cut around actually
developing some sort of craftlike approach to flying. I feel like
smacking them much as one wants to give an 11 year old with a cigarette
behind his ear a smack on the back of the head.


Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 3:49 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> WJRFlyBoy > wrote :

>
> BTW, the "I'm making you dance" thing is the oldest k00k trick in the
> book. Please start getting your ass in gear or this thing if you really
> want to do it. IKYABWAI posts and crap trying to insist that I'm your
> beatch will amuse me for a short time, but I expect you to get straight
> to some major k00kouts PDQ. I haven't paid to much attention to you yet,
> because you seem relatively boring, but with my help, I expect big
> things from you.
>
> Bertie

He can't be boring -- he works for DARPA, has "200 hours in the left
seat", is a GSA contractor, was a LRRP, earned the Ranger Tab, and a
host of other things he heard about.

He's a legend in his own demented universe.

Let him be. He's entertaining in the flaming wreck sort of way.


Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in
:

> On Apr 1, 3:49 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> WJRFlyBoy > wrote
>> :
>
>>
>> BTW, the "I'm making you dance" thing is the oldest k00k trick in the
>> book. Please start getting your ass in gear or this thing if you
>> really want to do it. IKYABWAI posts and crap trying to insist that
>> I'm your beatch will amuse me for a short time, but I expect you to
>> get straight to some major k00kouts PDQ. I haven't paid to much
>> attention to you yet, because you seem relatively boring, but with my
>> help, I expect big things from you.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> He can't be boring -- he works for DARPA, has "200 hours in the left
> seat", is a GSA contractor, was a LRRP, earned the Ranger Tab, and a
> host of other things he heard about.
>
> He's a legend in his own demented universe.
>
> Let him be. He's entertaining in the flaming wreck sort of way.

Oh I only improve k00ks. I'm largely misunderstood. I'm often criticised
as not being entertaining enough in my own right. That's not my job. My
job is to help the k00k shine. It's all about the k00k. For instance.
I've got Matt and Maxwell gurgling like a pair of parched mudpuppies.
It's what makes it all worthwhile.

BTW, I can never tell those two apart. It's partly the "Ma" at the
beginning of their names and partly the fact that they both have similar
styles and similarly inane ideas on just about everything.


Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 6:05 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

>
> Oh I only improve k00ks. I'm largely misunderstood. I'm often criticised
> as not being entertaining enough in my own right. That's not my job. My
> job is to help the k00k shine. It's all about the k00k. For instance.
> I've got Matt and Maxwell gurgling like a pair of parched mudpuppies.
> It's what makes it all worthwhile.
>
> BTW, I can never tell those two apart. It's partly the "Ma" at the
> beginning of their names and partly the fact that they both have similar
> styles and similarly inane ideas on just about everything.
>
> Bertie

Then I'll leave him in your very capable hands.

Have fun!


Dan Mc

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is
>>> absolutely unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we would
>>> have stayed in Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from Pensacola
>>> to St. Pete was completely routine.
>>
>> Jay, you need some remedial weather analysis and flight planning
>> training. I've never had XM weather (OK, one flight with a friend with
>> a 496) and get along fine without it.
>
> I'm glad for that, Matt -- but this is not the conclusion Mary and I
> have made.
>
> BTW: Your point about using XM for preflight analysis isn't relevant,
> since no one uses it for that. The strength of having live weather on
> board is for in-flight decision making, not pre-flight briefings.

I was simply going by your statement above "Before we had it, we would
have stayed in Pensacola." That sounds like using it for preflight
planning to me. :-)

Matt

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in news:5fa02bb0-4a88-462d-8ad0-
:

> On Apr 1, 6:05 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh I only improve k00ks. I'm largely misunderstood. I'm often
criticised
>> as not being entertaining enough in my own right. That's not my job.
My
>> job is to help the k00k shine. It's all about the k00k. For instance.
>> I've got Matt and Maxwell gurgling like a pair of parched mudpuppies.
>> It's what makes it all worthwhile.
>>
>> BTW, I can never tell those two apart. It's partly the "Ma" at the
>> beginning of their names and partly the fact that they both have
similar
>> styles and similarly inane ideas on just about everything.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Then I'll leave him in your very capable hands.
>
> Have fun!
>
>
> Dan Mc
>
>

I'm not greedy. Plenty of Matt to go around. He's just boosted his k00k
standing considerably with that amazon link. Promising.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Matt Whiting > wrote in news:7ryIj.305$555.8148
@news1.epix.net:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>> Completely. XM weather gives you a weather picture that is
>>>> absolutely unparalleled in GA aircraft. Before we had it, we
would
>>>> have stayed in Pensacola. After we had it, the flight from
Pensacola
>>>> to St. Pete was completely routine.
>>>
>>> Jay, you need some remedial weather analysis and flight planning
>>> training. I've never had XM weather (OK, one flight with a friend
with
>>> a 496) and get along fine without it.
>>
>> I'm glad for that, Matt -- but this is not the conclusion Mary and I
>> have made.
>>
>> BTW: Your point about using XM for preflight analysis isn't relevant,
>> since no one uses it for that. The strength of having live weather
on
>> board is for in-flight decision making, not pre-flight briefings.
>
> I was simply going by your statement above "Before we had it, we would
> have stayed in Pensacola." That sounds like using it for preflight
> planning to me. :-)
>
> Matt

I agree with this poast, thereboy demon-strating the skizo nature of my
bee-ing.



Bertie

[Dave Doe]

In article >,
says...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
> news:EspIj.47923$TT4.24425@attbi_s22:
>
> >>> Just like everything else in your head.
> >
> > Dammit, Maxwell, I appreciate you're going to bat for me -- but will
> > you quit responding to this Bertie dude?
> >
> > Trolls are there only raise the hackles on you back. Kill files are
> > the perfect solution, and many of us wouldn't even know that this twit
> > was still in the group EXCEPT for the fact that his drivel is visible
> > *inside* your responses.
> >
> > I know it's tempting to take a swing at such an easy target, but try
> > sitting on you hands whenever you see his kind of twitter. We'll all
> > be better off.
>
>
>
> Boy was I right about you.

Oh come on now. Are you not the Mr. Bawawawawawawa.

A troll from *way* back.

--
Duncan

[Blueskies]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message ...
> John Smith > wrote in news:jsmith-32A596.16182831032008
> @news-server.columbus.rr.com:
>
>> In article >,
>> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>
>>> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> You call them Bertie, too?
>>
>
> Only the ones named Bertie.
>
>
>
> Bertie


Bertie²

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Blueskies" > wrote in
t:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John Smith > wrote in
>> news:jsmith-32A596.16182831032008 @news-server.columbus.rr.com:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> You call them Bertie, too?
>>>
>>
>> Only the ones named Bertie.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
>
> Bertie²
>
>

I can do Bertie10 if you like.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

Dave Doe > wrote in news:MPG.225d83e89a0e5f9a9898f2
@news.paradise.net.nz:

> In article >,
> says...
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>> news:EspIj.47923$TT4.24425@attbi_s22:
>>
>> >>> Just like everything else in your head.
>> >
>> > Dammit, Maxwell, I appreciate you're going to bat for me -- but
will
>> > you quit responding to this Bertie dude?
>> >
>> > Trolls are there only raise the hackles on you back. Kill files
are
>> > the perfect solution, and many of us wouldn't even know that this
twit
>> > was still in the group EXCEPT for the fact that his drivel is
visible
>> > *inside* your responses.
>> >
>> > I know it's tempting to take a swing at such an easy target, but
try
>> > sitting on you hands whenever you see his kind of twitter. We'll
all
>> > be better off.
>>
>>
>>
>> Boy was I right about you.
>
> Oh come on now. Are you not the Mr. Bawawawawawawa.
>
> A troll from *way* back.
>

Yes, of course. What's your point? Doesnt alter the fact that Jay is a
self serving tit.


Bertie

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> He can't be boring -- he works for DARPA, has "200 hours in the left
> seat", is a GSA contractor, was a LRRP, earned the Ranger Tab, and a
> host of other things he heard about.

Trained athletes for over six years, owned/own businesses in 10
industries, that's 300 hours LH, My Little Trick pony, have 1,000 games
as a sports official, SCCA licensed, recently retired from racing sports
historicals, married once, three sons,and a ****load more. Oh yes,
military software for Emergency Mustering, Management, Pull Back and
Deployment of personnel.

You see, My Little Trick Pony, I haven't spent my life on Usenet as some
Little Trick Pony I know has.

Eat your poor limited, "I shoot guns and jackoff" life-heart out my
Little Trick Pony.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:13:40 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:



>>
>
>I'm not greedy. Plenty of Matt to go around. He's just boosted his k00k
>standing considerably with that amazon link. Promising.

Told ya'

Matty's the real thing.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> Dan > wrote in news:440d6b5a-c9e2-42dd-83b5-
> :
>
>> On Mar 30, 10:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>
>>> > You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.
>>>
>>> No, he's an aviator, and you are an idiot.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Why thank you. That means something coming from you!
>>
>
> Hey lots of aviators aren't all that bright!
> ;)
>
> Bertie giveth and Bertie taketh away.
>

Yeah buddy!

No God complex there.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Max" <luv2^fly^99@cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>>
>> You two need to get with Evelyn Wood for either a refund or a
>> refresher. Your reading speeds seem ok, but your comprehension skills
>> suck worse than your attitudes.
>
>
> My comnprehension is perfect. It's the poasts that are defective.
>


Have another drink.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> Jay Maynard > wrote in
> :
>
>> On 2008-04-01, Dan > wrote:
>>> The XM weather issue is a big deal to me -- more and more are flying
>>> XC with this gear without having any clue of the limitations -- and
>>> the manufacturers/service providers are certainly not going to
> educate
>>> the ignorant on the product's weaknesses.
>>>
>>> Every pilot should consider ALL data with skepticism -- whether it's
>>> from FSS, Center, XM, or StormScope.
>>
>> I don't think Jay was advocating this at all. What he was advocating
> was
>> adding it to the VFR pilot's toolkit, and I see nothing at all wrong
> with
>> that.
>
> Jay's entire being is resistant to common sense. I see guys like him all
> the time, expecting radio shack to give them a short cut around actually
> developing some sort of craftlike approach to flying. I feel like
> smacking them much as one wants to give an 11 year old with a cigarette
> behind his ear a smack on the back of the head.
>
>

Yeah, or an over the hill has been with a keyboard.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote

> I was simply going by your statement above "Before we had it, we would
> have stayed in Pensacola." That sounds like using it for preflight
> planning to me. :-)

No, it sounds like with it, he knew the trends once launched (with the
preflight briefing) would be proven, disproven, and made more clear with the
496's added input.
--
Jim in NC

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 1, 9:10 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
> > He can't be boring -- he works for DARPA, has "200 hours in the left
> > seat", is a GSA contractor, was a LRRP, earned the Ranger Tab, and a
> > host of other things he heard about.
>
> Trained athletes for over six years, owned/own businesses in 10
> industries, that's 300 hours LH, My Little Trick pony, have 1,000 games
> as a sports official, SCCA licensed, recently retired from racing sports
> historicals, married once, three sons,and a ****load more. Oh yes,
> military software for Emergency Mustering, Management, Pull Back and
> Deployment of personnel.
>
> You see, My Little Trick Pony, I haven't spent my life on Usenet as some
> Little Trick Pony I know has.
>
> Eat your poor limited, "I shoot guns and jackoff" life-heart out my
> Little Trick Pony.


::YAWN::

Sure, right, whatever you say, FakeFlyBoy.

You were never a LRRP.
You're not a pilot.
You're not in DARPA.
You're a fake and a phony posing to be something and someone you are
not.

Now I'm heading to the airport to fly a Beech Bonanza A36, solo, IFR.

I can do that since I am an Instrument Rated Commercial Pilot.

See ya, mendacious phony boy.


Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:FDEIj.45631$f8.5024
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Dan > wrote in news:440d6b5a-c9e2-42dd-83b5-
>> :
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 10:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > You're not a curmudgeon -- you're a Luddite.
>>>>
>>>> No, he's an aviator, and you are an idiot.
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Why thank you. That means something coming from you!
>>>
>>
>> Hey lots of aviators aren't all that bright!
>> ;)
>>
>> Bertie giveth and Bertie taketh away.
>>
>
> Yeah buddy!
>
> No God complex there.
>

Whats complicated about being God?

It's simple, not complex at all.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:JFEIj.45633$f8.28894
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Jay Maynard > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> On 2008-04-01, Dan > wrote:
>>>> The XM weather issue is a big deal to me -- more and more are
flying
>>>> XC with this gear without having any clue of the limitations -- and
>>>> the manufacturers/service providers are certainly not going to
>> educate
>>>> the ignorant on the product's weaknesses.
>>>>
>>>> Every pilot should consider ALL data with skepticism -- whether
it's
>>>> from FSS, Center, XM, or StormScope.
>>>
>>> I don't think Jay was advocating this at all. What he was advocating
>> was
>>> adding it to the VFR pilot's toolkit, and I see nothing at all wrong
>> with
>>> that.
>>
>> Jay's entire being is resistant to common sense. I see guys like him
all
>> the time, expecting radio shack to give them a short cut around
actually
>> developing some sort of craftlike approach to flying. I feel like
>> smacking them much as one wants to give an 11 year old with a
cigarette
>> behind his ear a smack on the back of the head.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, or an over the hill has been with a keyboard.


OK, I actually reckoned you were just a jerkoff posting crap between
downloading pr0n, but if you say so.

BTW, you don't think you're actually annoying me or anything, do you?
I'm just curious. I'm interested in how lower life forms think. Prolly
should ask the pet tortoise, he's a bit more articulate than you.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:nEEIj.45632$f8.18322
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Max" <luv2^fly^99@cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You two need to get with Evelyn Wood for either a refund or a
>>> refresher. Your reading speeds seem ok, but your comprehension
skills
>>> suck worse than your attitudes.
>>
>>
>> My comnprehension is perfect. It's the poasts that are defective.
>>
>
>
> Have another drink.
>
>
>

Oh no! You sunk my battleship!


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> I was simply going by your statement above "Before we had it, we would
>> have stayed in Pensacola." That sounds like using it for preflight
>> planning to me. :-)
>
> No, it sounds like with it, he knew the trends once launched (with the
> preflight briefing) would be proven, disproven, and made more clear with
> the 496's added input.

You got it, Jim.

I've been making transcontinental VFR flights in light singles for 13 years
now. We've flown coast to coast, Canada to Mexico, and all points in
between -- and I'm here to tell you that three technological advancements
have changed EVERYTHING in that relatively short period:

1. ANR headsets.
2. GPS
3. XM weather

ANR is more than just a comfort enhancement, since arriving over your
destination airport fresh is truly a safety enhancement.

GPS gives you situational and positional awareness that greatly enhances
flight safety. (And, of course, the new GPS's have all sorts of other
features, from taxi diagrams to restaurant information.)

XM weather allows you to view and assess weather that is far over the
horizon, hours ahead of your flight path. On a 5-hour cross country
flight, the ability to view and assess trends along your route of flight is
incredible.

Sadly, it's not just a couple of Luddites on this group that pooh-pooh the
use of technology. I have personally known pilots who make fun of
"techno-pilots" -- although they are becoming fewer, as their numbers
dwindle over time.

'Twas ever thus, I fear. Remember, early pilots resisted enclosing the
aircraft cockpits, demanding that they feel the wind in their face to be
able to better "assess conditions". Each advance has been met with
skepticism, but ultimately common sense prevails.

Resistance to change seems to be ingrained in our DNA, but anyone who
disputes these enhancements to flight safety -- or, worse, denies their use
as a "crutch" -- is truly doing GA a disservice.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote
>
>> I was simply going by your statement above "Before we had it, we would
>> have stayed in Pensacola." That sounds like using it for preflight
>> planning to me. :-)
>
> No, it sounds like with it, he knew the trends once launched (with the
> preflight briefing) would be proven, disproven, and made more clear with
> the 496's added input.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:RBMIj.102634$yE1.26106@attbi_s21:

>>> I was simply going by your statement above "Before we had it, we
>>> would have stayed in Pensacola." That sounds like using it for
>>> preflight planning to me. :-)
>>
>> No, it sounds like with it, he knew the trends once launched (with
>> the preflight briefing) would be proven, disproven, and made more
>> clear with the 496's added input.
>
> You got it, Jim.
>
> I've been making transcontinental VFR flights in light singles for 13
> years now. We've flown coast to coast, Canada to Mexico, and all
> points in between -- and I'm here to tell you that three technological
> advancements have changed EVERYTHING in that relatively short period:
>
> 1. ANR headsets.
> 2. GPS
> 3. XM weather
>
> ANR is more than just a comfort enhancement, since arriving over your
> destination airport fresh is truly a safety enhancement.
>
> GPS gives you situational and positional awareness that greatly
> enhances flight safety. (And, of course, the new GPS's have all
> sorts of other features, from taxi diagrams to restaurant
> information.)
>
> XM weather allows you to view and assess weather that is far over the
> horizon, hours ahead of your flight path. On a 5-hour cross country
> flight, the ability to view and assess trends along your route of
> flight is incredible.
>
> Sadly, it's not just a couple of Luddites on this group that pooh-pooh
> the use of technology. I have personally known pilots who make fun of
> "techno-pilots" -- although they are becoming fewer, as their numbers
> dwindle over time.
>
> 'Twas ever thus, I fear. Remember, early pilots resisted enclosing
> the aircraft cockpits, demanding that they feel the wind in their face
> to be able to better "assess conditions". Each advance has been met
> with skepticism, but ultimately common sense prevails.
>
> Resistance to change seems to be ingrained in our DNA, but anyone who
> disputes these enhancements to flight safety -- or, worse, denies
> their use as a "crutch" -- is truly doing GA a disservice.



Bull****.


Bertie

[BDS[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> I've been making transcontinental VFR flights in light singles for 13
years
> now. We've flown coast to coast, Canada to Mexico, and all points in
> between -- and I'm here to tell you that three technological advancements
> have changed EVERYTHING in that relatively short period:
>
> 1. ANR headsets.
> 2. GPS
> 3. XM weather

Which XM gear do you use?

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Which XM gear do you use?

After much research, I settled on the Garmin 496.

I don't like it much -- it's painfully slow to slew, has a tiny, muddy
screen, is oriented incorrectly (landscape rather than portrait) -- but it
was the best weather choice two years ago.

Now, I'd look at this: http://www.aviationsafety.com/fl_190.htm
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Which XM gear do you use?
>
> After much research, I settled on the Garmin 496.
>
> I don't like it much -- it's painfully slow to slew, has a tiny, muddy
> screen, is oriented incorrectly (landscape rather than portrait) -- but
> it was the best weather choice two years ago.
>
> Now, I'd look at this: http://www.aviationsafety.com/fl_190.htm

The big negative of that one is that the XM Wx requires a separate box
and the associated wires. Oh, and no XM radio.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-04-02, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Sadly, it's not just a couple of Luddites on this group that pooh-pooh the
> use of technology. I have personally known pilots who make fun of
> "techno-pilots" -- although they are becoming fewer, as their numbers
> dwindle over time.

I've never understood this. I also set out to make N55ZC as well-equipped,
with lots of whiz-bang techno-wizardry, as I could get. Yes, I understand
full well that it all comes down to flying the airplane as safely as I can.
The gadgetry helps me do that. It won't take the place of sound judgment, or
good piloting skills, but I'm not expecting it to.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 2, 10:19 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Sadly, it's not just a couple of Luddites on this group that pooh-pooh the
> use of technology. I have personally known pilots who make fun of
> "techno-pilots" -- although they are becoming fewer, as their numbers
> dwindle over time.

You have no idea what I was talking about when I critiqued your
approach, do you Jay?


> 'Twas ever thus, I fear. Remember, early pilots resisted enclosing the
> aircraft cockpits, demanding that they feel the wind in their face to be
> able to better "assess conditions". Each advance has been met with
> skepticism, but ultimately common sense prevails.

I say again -- any pilot who launches completely reliant on technology
is an NTSB report in the making.

EVERYTHING needs to be checked and double checked, and all displays on
the screen need to be checked against forecasts, windscreen view, and
expectations (The dewpoint spread is close -- so why is it clear
here?)


> Resistance to change seems to be ingrained in our DNA, but anyone who
> disputes these enhancements to flight safety -- or, worse, denies their use
> as a "crutch" -- is truly doing GA a disservice.

You need to re-read what you wrote and my replies -- you are
backpedaling and thereby contradicting yourself, and in the process
ignoring or worse not understanding what I wrote.

You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.


Dan Mc

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:05:34 GMT, Jay Maynard wrote:

> On 2008-04-02, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> Sadly, it's not just a couple of Luddites on this group that pooh-pooh the
>> use of technology. I have personally known pilots who make fun of
>> "techno-pilots" -- although they are becoming fewer, as their numbers
>> dwindle over time.
>
> I've never understood this. I also set out to make N55ZC as well-equipped,
> with lots of whiz-bang techno-wizardry, as I could get. Yes, I understand
> full well that it all comes down to flying the airplane as safely as I can.

Let's see, where does the list begin.

Jealousy
Technology-challenged
Lack Of Funds
Old Dawg, No New Anything Mentality
Jealousy

Did I say jealousy?

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 2, 2:50 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>
> Jealousy
> Technology-challenged
> Lack Of Funds
> Old Dawg, No New Anything Mentality
> Jealousy
>
> Did I say jealousy?

And you fly an A36 with G430/WAAS, a 496 with XM wx, Stormscope, JPI,
GAMInjectors, and Osborne tips?

Didn't think so, faker.

[WJRFlyBoy]

>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>> I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
>>> engineering job.
>>
>> Really? Such as and working for whom?
>
> None of your damn business, fake fly boy.

Ouch, laid off? I was going to have you meet me at NAS JAX or Mayport,
to buy you a bucket of oats on me, My Little Trick Pony.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 2, 5:59 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
> >>> I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
> >>> engineering job.
>
> >> Really? Such as and working for whom?
>
> > None of your damn business, fake fly boy.
>
> Ouch, laid off? I was going to have you meet me at NAS JAX or Mayport,
> to buy you a bucket of oats on me, My Little Trick Pony.

Still none of your damn business -- if you actually worked for DARPA
(as you claimed) you'd know about OPSEC, moron.

What a waste of skin...

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> On Apr 2, 5:59 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>>>> I *design* new technologies for the US Navy in my current
>>>>> engineering job.
>>
>>>> Really? Such as and working for whom?
>>
>>> None of your damn business, fake fly boy.
>>
>> Ouch, laid off? I was going to have you meet me at NAS JAX or Mayport,
>> to buy you a bucket of oats on me, My Little Trick Pony.
>
> Still none of your damn business

Maybe you can get a job here.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

> if you actually worked for DARPA
> (as you claimed) you'd know about OPSEC, moron.
>
> What a waste of skin...

OPSEC? BWAHAHAHAHAH

Which is why you will never know my name and I know yours?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

OPSEC?

Adios, my Little Trick Pony!!!

*PLONK*

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 2, 6:47 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:
>
> Which is why you will never know my name and I know yours?

Big deal.

And if that's a threat, Bring It On, fakeflyboy.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.

Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports to back
up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to you.

Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos, on my
real website, from my real aviation business, about my real cross-country
flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're nothing but another
troll.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:

>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>
> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports to
> back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to you.


Well, at least there will be one less ignorant boter out there when you
spear in, fjukktard.


>
> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos,
> on my real website, from my real aviation business, about my real
> cross-country flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're
> nothing but another troll.


Yeah, anyone who calls you on your idiocy is a "troll"


Good fjukkktard!


Mebbe you and Kenny can get together for some fun flying!


Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 2, 11:13 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
> > your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
> > inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>
> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports to back
> up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to you.

Well, I tried.

You're hopeless.


Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:706Jj.104076$yE1.77016@attbi_s21:

>> You're hopeless.
>
> It's not your points that make you sound dumb, "Dan", it's your
> attitude combined with an inability to keep a civil tongue.


Wheras you just sound dumb no matter what.


Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> You're hopeless.

It's not your points that make you sound dumb, "Dan", it's your attitude
combined with an inability to keep a civil tongue. You apparently can't
quite get your mind around the fact that GPS, XM, ANR, and a whole host of
other new technologies, have made cross-country spam can flying much safer
and easier than it was just a few years ago -- and you summarily dismiss
pilots who routinely use these new technologies as somehow lacking in basic
aviator's skills.

It's an ignorant, illogical, specious argument that makes you sound like
Luddite.

But that's okay -- the sky is large, and there is plenty of room. If you
want to assess the weather by sticking your finger out of your open cockpit,
there's nothing wrong with that.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan[_10_]]

> It's not your points that make you sound dumb, "Dan", it's your attitude
> combined with an inability to keep a civil tongue. You apparently can't
> quite get your mind around the fact that GPS, XM, ANR, and a whole host of
> other new technologies, have made cross-country spam can flying much safer
> and easier than it was just a few years ago -- and you summarily dismiss
> pilots who routinely use these new technologies as somehow lacking in basic
> aviator's skills.
>
> It's an ignorant, illogical, specious argument that makes you sound like
> Luddite.
>
> But that's okay -- the sky is large, and there is plenty of room. If you
> want to assess the weather by sticking your finger out of your open cockpit,
> there's nothing wrong with that.

Let me try one more time...

Jay, I don't think I've been uncivil, but perception is reality so if
you perceive it so, I apologize.

Let me restate my primary concern -- That XM Weather does not provide
the total picture -- especially for a VFR pilot.

The concerns I have for XM users are the same I have for GPS users --
the reliance on these technologies is so total, and the loss of other
skills so subtle and so inexorable, that there is an endemic problem.

When you say "XM makes weather easy" I cringe, because weather is
never, ever "easy" -- in fact one of the appeals of aviation is that
is requires constant learning -- there is no total mastery.

Sure, there is workmanlike familiarity -- but mastery in the sense
that you "own" all knowledge regarding the endeavor?

Never.

When we buzz along through the skies in our little aluminum cocoons,
we sometimes have that self-satisfied feeling that we've "got it all
figured out."

That happens to us all, and we sometimes fly hundreds of hours without
having that notion dis-proven.

But the chicken in me thinks, "Have I really thought through every
contingency?"

The answer is always "Well..."

And then I explore that part of my ignorance -- either solo or with a
CFI.

Maybe it's the way you defend your posts that makes me think you don't
feel this way -- that you think you've figured it out.

Maybe that's my incorrect perception.

But I will never want to be satisfied -- I always want that tiny
gnawing doubt that forces me to think "What if? How would I? Do I
know ..?"

Does this preclude confidence and expertise?

Of course not.

But I never want confidence in myself OR my equipment to shield me
from grim realities that I must understand in order to confront.

Anyway, now I'm really, really done with this thread. But I wanted to
make very clear that my aim is not to be simply contentious, but to
challenge what may be very dangerous assumptions if there true.

Dan Mc

(For the record, that's how I always sign my name unless it's a check
-- you can find out all about me at my blog: http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/
-- I have nothing to hide and nothing to sell)

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
>

Major mercy snip ->

Now you are starting to sound like Dudley.

If I just write a couple of more reams, surely the will come around to my
way of thinking.

[Blueskies]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message ...
> "Blueskies" > wrote in
> t:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> John Smith > wrote in
>>> news:jsmith-32A596.16182831032008 @news-server.columbus.rr.com:
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>> You call them Bertie, too?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Only the ones named Bertie.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>>
>> Bertie²
>>
>>
>
> I can do Bertie10 if you like.
>
>
> Bertie

Hmmm...

bertie<>eitreb

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 3, 4:33 pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:

> Now you are starting to sound like Dudley.

That's a compliment, and you're too dense to know it.


Dan Mc

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> On Apr 3, 4:33 pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:
>
>> Now you are starting to sound like Dudley.
>
> That's a compliment, and you're too dense to know it.
>

yeah, I'm sure an ass kisser like you would think so, but you completely
missed the point, no surprise.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Let me try one more time...

Okay.

> Jay, I don't think I've been uncivil, but perception is reality so if
> you perceive it so, I apologize.

Accepted. And I didn't mean to slip and call you a "dip****". That was a
classless, post-hops-&-grains thing to post on my part.

> Let me restate my primary concern -- That XM Weather does not provide
> the total picture -- especially for a VFR pilot.

I'm with you so far...

> The concerns I have for XM users are the same I have for GPS users --
> the reliance on these technologies is so total, and the loss of other
> skills so subtle and so inexorable, that there is an endemic problem.

Now you're starting to go overboard. While it's possible to become overly
reliant on technology, your assumption that this problem is endemic, or
specifically applies to me, is presumptuous at best.

> When you say "XM makes weather easy" I cringe, because weather is
> never, ever "easy" -- in fact one of the appeals of aviation is that
> is requires constant learning -- there is no total mastery.

Agreed. Perhaps you'd accept this, instead: "XM makes weather easier."?

> When we buzz along through the skies in our little aluminum cocoons,
> we sometimes have that self-satisfied feeling that we've "got it all
> figured out."

Mmmmmmm, nope. Not me. I can be comfortable, and contented, even joyous --
but I am never fully relaxed. There is always that silent train of thought
churning along just beneath the surface, analyzing every vibration, watching
cylinder head temperatures, listening to the next AWOS, that keep me from
EVER feeling like I've got it all figured out. It's part of what I love
about flying -- it never gets boring.

> Maybe it's the way you defend your posts that makes me think you don't
> feel this way -- that you think you've figured it out.

Gee, Dan, when someone broadsides me by accusing me of being a
"Crayola-aviator" after posting a nice travelogue about our flight to
Florida, I can't *imagine* why I'd defend myself. Surely you can't be
*that* oblivious to how you sound?

> Anyway, now I'm really, really done with this thread. But I wanted to
> make very clear that my aim is not to be simply contentious, but to
> challenge what may be very dangerous assumptions if there true.

Understood. I think you made some good points that are especially valid for
new pilots. Technology on board is just another arrow in your quiver, to be
used judiciously and with careful aim.

Which, of course, is what I've been saying all along.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 3, 5:52 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>
> Which, of course, is what I've been saying all along.


Good grief, Jay.

I really give up.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 03:13:09 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos, on my
> real website, from my real aviation business, about my real cross-country
> flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're nothing but another
> troll.

here you go, Asshole.

http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/

Dan McCormack
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Astrological Sign: Sagittarius
Zodiac Year: Ox
Industry: Engineering
Occupation: Systems Engineer
Location: New Salem (Near Pittsburgh) : PA : United States
About Me:

I'm 46, married since August 1st, 1981 to Janet Ann (Sullivan), we have
three children: Melissa, Heather, and Nathaniel. I work as a Senior
Systems Engineer for a Navy Contractor at

ADVANCED ACOUSTIC CONCEPTS

AAC
1080 Eberly Way Lemont Furnace , PA 15456
Phone: (724) 434-5100 Fax: (724) 434-5101

MY HOME PHONE IS: 724-880-4809

Anything else, Pussy Boi?

Dan Mc

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 03:13:09 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos, on
>> my
>> real website, from my real aviation business, about my real cross-country
>> flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're nothing but another
>> troll.
>
> here you go, Asshole.
>
> http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/
>
> Dan McCormack
> Age: 46
> Gender: Male
> Astrological Sign: Sagittarius
> Zodiac Year: Ox
> Industry: Engineering
> Occupation: Systems Engineer
> Location: New Salem (Near Pittsburgh) : PA : United States
> About Me:
>
> I'm 46, married since August 1st, 1981 to Janet Ann (Sullivan), we have
> three children: Melissa, Heather, and Nathaniel. I work as a Senior
> Systems Engineer for a Navy Contractor at
>
> ADVANCED ACOUSTIC CONCEPTS
>
> AAC
> 1080 Eberly Way Lemont Furnace , PA 15456
> Phone: (724) 434-5100 Fax: (724) 434-5101
>
> MY HOME PHONE IS: 724-880-4809
>
> Anything else, Pussy Boi?
>

Cool!!!! Now all you need is an aviation related business, a web site with
family photos of your last flying vacation,,,, and you're all set.

???? But then, I thought you had already given up.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> here you go, Asshole.

Congratulations, Dan. You're for real!

:-)

Feel better?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Logajan]

Say Dan and Jay, any chance you two could be persuaded to bury the
proverbial hatchet or otherwise seek a truce - or at least let this
unfortunate subthread die a deserved death?

(Good luck to you Dan on you CFI checkride.)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Say Dan and Jay, any chance you two could be persuaded to bury the
> proverbial hatchet or otherwise seek a truce - or at least let this
> unfortunate subthread die a deserved death?

Shoot, Jim, I'm fully expecting to see Dan at OSH '08, now that he's come
into the light of day. The first round is on me...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Blueskies" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Blueskies" > wrote in
>> t:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> John Smith > wrote in
>>>> news:jsmith-32A596.16182831032008 @news-server.columbus.rr.com:
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I fly with lots of them nowadays. i have a differnt name for
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>
>>>>> You call them Bertie, too?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only the ones named Bertie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie²
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I can do Bertie10 if you like.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Hmmm...
>
> bertie<>eitreb
>
>
>

Or any anagram you like..



Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 3, 9:39 pm, Dan > wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 03:13:09 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos, on my
> > real website, from my real aviation business, about my real cross-country
> > flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're nothing but another
> > troll.
>
> here you go, Asshole.
>
> http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/
>
> Dan McCormack
> Age: 46
> Gender: Male
> Astrological Sign: Sagittarius
> Zodiac Year: Ox
> Industry: Engineering
> Occupation: Systems Engineer
> Location: New Salem (Near Pittsburgh) : PA : United States
> About Me:
>
> I'm 46, married since August 1st, 1981 to Janet Ann (Sullivan), we have
> three children: Melissa, Heather, and Nathaniel. I work as a Senior

I did not write that email -- maxwell or some other idiot using a
false ID pretending to be me.

[Dan[_10_]]

On Apr 3, 10:47 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> >> here you go, Asshole.
>
> Congratulations, Dan. You're for real!
>
> :-)
>
> Feel better?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

That was not me. Maxwell or some other worthless twerp spoofed my
identify.

sheese, gotta love usenet...

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> On Apr 3, 9:39 pm, Dan > wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 03:13:09 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
>> > Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos, on
>> > my
>> > real website, from my real aviation business, about my real
>> > cross-country
>> > flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're nothing but
>> > another
>> > troll.
>>
>> here you go, Asshole.
>>
>> http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Dan McCormack
>> Age: 46
>> Gender: Male
>> Astrological Sign: Sagittarius
>> Zodiac Year: Ox
>> Industry: Engineering
>> Occupation: Systems Engineer
>> Location: New Salem (Near Pittsburgh) : PA : United States
>> About Me:
>>
>> I'm 46, married since August 1st, 1981 to Janet Ann (Sullivan), we have
>> three children: Melissa, Heather, and Nathaniel. I work as a Senior
>
> I did not write that email -- maxwell or some other idiot using a
> false ID pretending to be me.
>
>

You deserved it, your an asshole.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:

>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>
> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports to
> back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to you.
>
> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos,
> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =


You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a flea pit.

They don't even have wings.



Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Apr 4, 4:19 pm, Anonymous > wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
> > On Apr 1, 9:10 pm, WJRFlyBoy > wrote:

Sounds like WJRFlyBoy to me...

[[email protected]]

On Apr 4, 7:11 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

> You got a stalker! You lucky *******! I haven't had one in ages...
>
> Bertie

I'd prefer he show himself in person.

I have a few acres and a shovel -- and no witnesses.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

" > wrote in news:cb21eed3-11d2-4f0a-
:

> On Apr 4, 7:11 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>> You got a stalker! You lucky *******! I haven't had one in ages...
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I'd prefer he show himself in person.
>
> I have a few acres and a shovel -- and no witnesses.
>

He seems kinda stupid, but ya take what ya can get. He also claims to have
left an IP, but it's prolly a proxy if he's bragging about it. Just enjoy
it.

Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Apr 4, 7:36 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

> He seems kinda stupid, but ya take what ya can get. He also claims to have
> left an IP, but it's prolly a proxy if he's bragging about it. Just enjoy
> it.
>
> Bertie

Trust me, I am.

:-)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

" > wrote in
:

> On Apr 4, 7:36 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>> He seems kinda stupid, but ya take what ya can get. He also claims to
>> have left an IP, but it's prolly a proxy if he's bragging about it.
>> Just enjoy it.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Trust me, I am.
>
>:-)
>
>

God I love usenet.

Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> Congratulations, Dan. You're for real!
> That was not me. Maxwell or some other worthless twerp spoofed my
> identify.

Well, hell. That was a crappy thing for someone to do to you -- but
(assuming any of the info was accurate) you can now start signing your real
name and standing behind your posts.

As a result, your opinions will carry more weight here, and you will quickly
find that it's not quite so tempting to rely on personal insults and
hyperbole in lieu of intelligent, give and take conversation whilst in the
heat of an argument.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Apr 4, 10:36 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> >> Congratulations, Dan. You're for real!
> > That was not me. Maxwell or some other worthless twerp spoofed my
> > identify.
>
> Well, hell. That was a crappy thing for someone to do to you -- but
> (assuming any of the info was accurate) you can now start signing your real
> name and standing behind your posts.
>
> As a result, your opinions will carry more weight here, and you will quickly
> find that it's not quite so tempting to rely on personal insults and
> hyperbole in lieu of intelligent, give and take conversation whilst in the
> heat of an argument.

Thanks for the lecture, Jay.

I don't intend to change a thing. If you put out bad info (though you
back pedaled on it), I plan to call you on it.

Dan Mc

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Thanks for the lecture, Jay.

Anytime. Hey, I've got a 17-year-old son, so I'm in good practice...

> I don't intend to change a thing. If you put out bad info (though you
> back pedaled on it), I plan to call you on it.

You have an interesting take on reality, Dan -- but I'll defend to the death
your right to misinterpret it. You're nothing if not entertaining.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:kABJj.52993$TT4.8300@attbi_s22:

>>> Congratulations, Dan. You're for real!
>> That was not me. Maxwell or some other worthless twerp spoofed my
>> identify.
>
> Well, hell. That was a crappy thing for someone to do to you -- but
> (assuming any of the info was accurate) you can now start signing your
> real name and standing behind your posts.
>
> As a result, your opinions will carry more weight here, and you will
> quickly find that it's not quite so tempting to rely on personal
> insults and hyperbole in lieu of intelligent, give and take
> conversation whilst in the heat of an argument.

Doesn't stand to reason. You presumably use your real name and you haven't
said anything discernably intelligent yet.


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Apr 5, 9:22 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:


> You have an interesting take on reality, Dan -- but I'll defend to the death
> your right to misinterpret it. You're nothing if not entertaining.

Oh, so you've served in the military?

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
> news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:
>
>>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
>>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>>
>> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports to
>> back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to you.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos,
>> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =
>
>
> You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a flea pit.
>

You should be so lucky.

Then you would have something to do beside hanging around here and imitating
Mxsmanic.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>> news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:
>>
>>>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
>>>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>>>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>>>
>>> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports
>>> to back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos,
>>> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =
>>
>>
>> You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a flea
>> pit.
>>
>
> You should be so lucky.

Then you would have something to do beside hanging around here and
> imitating Mxsmanic.
>

Nope, I could do just like Jay and hire a bunch of drug addicts to clean
up .



Bertie

>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:02LJj.106882$yE1.106471@attbi_s21:

>> Thanks for the lecture, Jay.
>
> Anytime. Hey, I've got a 17-year-old son, so I'm in good practice...
>
>> I don't intend to change a thing. If you put out bad info (though you
>> back pedaled on it), I plan to call you on it.
>
> You have an interesting take on reality, Dan -- but I'll defend to the
> death your right to misinterpret it. You're nothing if not
> entertaining.

You're an idiot and a future statistic.


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Apr 5, 11:29 am, Clark > wrote:
> " > wrote :
>
> > On Apr 5, 9:22 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> >> You have an interesting take on reality, Dan -- but I'll defend to the
> >> death your right to misinterpret it. You're nothing if not
> >> entertaining.
>
> > Oh, so you've served in the military?
>
> Like Jay said, you've got an interesting take on reality Dan.

Sure do, and it's served me well.

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:01:06 -0500, Maxwell wrote:

> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Apr 3, 9:39 pm, Dan > wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 03:13:09 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> > Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos, on
>>> > my
>>> > real website, from my real aviation business, about my real
>>> > cross-country
>>> > flights. Until you can match that, dip****, you're nothing but
>>> > another
>>> > troll.
>>>
>>> here you go, Asshole.
>>>
>>> http://trainingforcfi.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Dan McCormack
>>> Age: 46
>>> Gender: Male
>>> Astrological Sign: Sagittarius
>>> Zodiac Year: Ox
>>> Industry: Engineering
>>> Occupation: Systems Engineer
>>> Location: New Salem (Near Pittsburgh) : PA : United States
>>> About Me:
>>>
>>> I'm 46, married since August 1st, 1981 to Janet Ann (Sullivan), we have
>>> three children: Melissa, Heather, and Nathaniel. I work as a Senior
>>
>> I did not write that email -- maxwell or some other idiot using a
>> false ID pretending to be me.
>>
>>
>
> You deserved it, your an asshole.

Feel free to suck my cock, you idiot.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:

> Feel free to -----

Another lame spoof.

Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> :
>>
>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>>
>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood" before
>>>> the PPL practical.
>>>
>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>>
>>
>> it's in 61
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Thx, Bertie.

I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

" > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>>> :
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood"
>>>>> before the PPL practical.
>>>>
>>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>>>
>>>
>>> it's in 61
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Thx, Bertie.
>
> I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?

Nah. I think I can handle it.



Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Apr 6, 2:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> " > wrote :
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
> >>> :
>
> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>
> >>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood"
> >>>>> before the PPL practical.
>
> >>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>
> >>> it's in 61
>
> >>> Bertie
>
> >> Thx, Bertie.
>
> > I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?
>
> Nah. I think I can handle it.
>
> Bertie

Someday fakeFlyBoy will get a job and not have so much free time.

It's rather sad, thinking of him sitting in the dark in his
garanimals, hoping to say something witty on the newsgroup.

Anyway, I didn't say that. The monstrous idiot thinks he's so very
clever that he can spoof my ID.

Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

" > wrote in
:

> On Apr 6, 2:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> " > wrote
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>>
>> >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>> >>> :
>>
>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood"
>> >>>>> before the PPL practical.
>>
>> >>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>
>> >>> it's in 61
>>
>> >>> Bertie
>>
>> >> Thx, Bertie.
>>
>> > I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?
>>
>> Nah. I think I can handle it.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Someday fakeFlyBoy will get a job and not have so much free time.
>
> It's rather sad, thinking of him sitting in the dark in his
> garanimals, hoping to say something witty on the newsgroup.
>
> Anyway, I didn't say that. The monstrous idiot thinks he's so very
> clever that he can spoof my ID.

Mm, maybe... i'm not so sure..


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:15:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> " > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Apr 6, 2:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> " > wrote
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>>>
>>> >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>
>>> >>> :
>>>
>>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the hood"
>>> >>>>> before the PPL practical.
>>>
>>> >>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>>
>>> >>> it's in 61
>>>
>>> >>> Bertie
>>>
>>> >> Thx, Bertie.
>>>
>>> > I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?
>>>
>>> Nah. I think I can handle it.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Someday fakeFlyBoy will get a job and not have so much free time.
>>
>> It's rather sad, thinking of him sitting in the dark in his
>> garanimals, hoping to say something witty on the newsgroup.
>>
>> Anyway, I didn't say that. The monstrous idiot thinks he's so very
>> clever that he can spoof my ID.
>
> Mm, maybe... i'm not so sure..
>
> Bertie

Not sure of what.

I don't need you OK.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

" > wrote in news:oe89fc7zzqla
:

> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:15:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> " > wrote in
>> news:3c33b1e9-84ed-4980-8abb-
:
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>> " > wrote
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>> :
>>>>
>>>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the
hood"
>>>> >>>>> before the PPL practical.
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>>>
>>>> >>> it's in 61
>>>>
>>>> >>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>> >> Thx, Bertie.
>>>>
>>>> > I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?
>>>>
>>>> Nah. I think I can handle it.
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Someday fakeFlyBoy will get a job and not have so much free time.
>>>
>>> It's rather sad, thinking of him sitting in the dark in his
>>> garanimals, hoping to say something witty on the newsgroup.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I didn't say that. The monstrous idiot thinks he's so very
>>> clever that he can spoof my ID.
>>
>> Mm, maybe... i'm not so sure..
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Not sure of what.

That it's who you think he is.
>
> I don't need you OK.

Do you mean you don't need me, or you don't need me to be OK?



Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Apr 7, 1:25 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> " > wrote in news:oe89fc7zzqla
> :
>
> > On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:15:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
> >> " > wrote in
> >> news:3c33b1e9-84ed-4980-8abb-
>
> :
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> On Apr 6, 2:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> >>>> " > wrote
> >>>> :
>
> >>>> > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>
> >>>> >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
> wrote:
>
> >>>> >>> :
>
> >>>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>
> >>>> >>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the
> hood"
> >>>> >>>>> before the PPL practical.
>
> >>>> >>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>
> >>>> >>> it's in 61
>
> >>>> >>> Bertie
>
> >>>> >> Thx, Bertie.
>
> >>>> > I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats. Interested?
>
> >>>> Nah. I think I can handle it.
>
> >>>> Bertie
>
> >>> Someday fakeFlyBoy will get a job and not have so much free time.
>
> >>> It's rather sad, thinking of him sitting in the dark in his
> >>> garanimals, hoping to say something witty on the newsgroup.
>
> >>> Anyway, I didn't say that. The monstrous idiot thinks he's so very
> >>> clever that he can spoof my ID.
>
> >> Mm, maybe... i'm not so sure..
>
> >> Bertie
>
> > Not sure of what.
>
> That it's who you think he is.
>
>
>
> > I don't need you OK.
>
> Do you mean you don't need me, or you don't need me to be OK?
>
> Bertie

Fake post be MX -- he's finally been caught -- the idiot failed to
change the header while posting as me.

Absolute and total waste of organs. They should be harvested and used
for cosmetic testing immediately.

Dan McCormack

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

" > wrote in news:671b2651-8756-
:

> On Apr 7, 1:25 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> " > wrote in news:oe89fc7zzqla
>> :
>>
>> > On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:15:38 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>> >> " > wrote in
>> >> news:3c33b1e9-84ed-4980-8abb-
>>
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>> On Apr 6, 2:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> >>>> " > wrote
>> >>>> :
>>
>> >>>> > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:31:25 -0400, WJRFlyBoy wrote:
>>
>> >>>> >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:16:12 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>> >>> :
>>
>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:
>>
>> >>>> >>>>> US Student pilots are required to have 3 hours "under the
>> hood"
>> >>>> >>>>> before the PPL practical.
>>
>> >>>> >>>> Point me to that reg, please.
>>
>> >>>> >>> it's in 61
>>
>> >>>> >>> Bertie
>>
>> >>>> >> Thx, Bertie.
>>
>> >>>> > I have a 17 year old son I trained to slit throats.
Interested?
>>
>> >>>> Nah. I think I can handle it.
>>
>> >>>> Bertie
>>
>> >>> Someday fakeFlyBoy will get a job and not have so much free time.
>>
>> >>> It's rather sad, thinking of him sitting in the dark in his
>> >>> garanimals, hoping to say something witty on the newsgroup.
>>
>> >>> Anyway, I didn't say that. The monstrous idiot thinks he's so
very
>> >>> clever that he can spoof my ID.
>>
>> >> Mm, maybe... i'm not so sure..
>>
>> >> Bertie
>>
>> > Not sure of what.
>>
>> That it's who you think he is.
>>
>>
>>
>> > I don't need you OK.
>>
>> Do you mean you don't need me, or you don't need me to be OK?
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Fake post be MX -- he's finally been caught -- the idiot failed to
> change the header while posting as me.
>
> Absolute and total waste of organs. They should be harvested and used
> for cosmetic testing immediately.


He's never been much of a troll.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>> news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:
>>>
>>>>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but if
>>>>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>>>>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>>>>
>>>> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports
>>>> to back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real photos,
>>>> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =
>>>
>>>
>>> You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a flea
>>> pit.
>>>
>>
>> You should be so lucky.
>
> Then you would have something to do beside hanging around here and
>> imitating Mxsmanic.
>>
>
> Nope, I could do just like Jay and hire a bunch of drug addicts to clean
> up .
>
>
>
> Bertie
>

40

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:
>
>> Feel free to -----
>
> Another lame spoof.
>
> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>

Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:VMcLj.46403$f8.45435
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>>> news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:
>>>>
>>>>>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but
if
>>>>>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>>>>>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports
>>>>> to back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real
photos,
>>>>> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a flea
>>>> pit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You should be so lucky.
>>
>> Then you would have something to do beside hanging around here and
>>> imitating Mxsmanic.
>>>
>>
>> Nope, I could do just like Jay and hire a bunch of drug addicts to
clean
>> up .
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> 40
>
>
>
Nope. You need remedial math as well as everything else.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:zOcLj.46404$f8.20952
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> > wrote in message
> news:3e41019c-4fd4-4727-bac4-cbff59bf7258
@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:
>>
>>> Feel free to -----
>>
>> Another lame spoof.
>>
>> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>>
>
> Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.
>
>
>

Sooo cold.



Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:VMcLj.46403$f8.45435
> @newsfe23.lga:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>>>> news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want, but
> if
>>>>>>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the least
>>>>>>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB reports
>>>>>> to back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real
> photos,
>>>>>> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a flea
>>>>> pit.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You should be so lucky.
>>>
>>> Then you would have something to do beside hanging around here and
>>>> imitating Mxsmanic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope, I could do just like Jay and hire a bunch of drug addicts to
> clean
>>> up .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>>
>> 40
>>
>>
>>
> Nope. You need remedial math as well as everything else.
>
> Bertie
49

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:zOcLj.46404$f8.20952
> @newsfe23.lga:
>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> news:3e41019c-4fd4-4727-bac4-cbff59bf7258
> @p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Feel free to -----
>>>
>>> Another lame spoof.
>>>
>>> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>>>
>>
>> Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Sooo cold.
>
>
>
> Bertie

Oh, are you Danny's keeper now too?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008$y05.58506
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:VMcLj.46403$f8.45435
>> @newsfe23.lga:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>>>>> news:9XXIj.50204$TT4.4645@attbi_s22:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can claim to be the champion of technology all you want,
but
>> if
>>>>>>>> your behavior is consistent with your words you are at the
least
>>>>>>>> inconsistent, at worst -- a hazard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, "Dan", when you can do anything more than quote NTSB
reports
>>>>>>> to back up your so-called "points", maybe someone will listen to
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meanwhile, I will continue to use my real name, posting real
>> photos,
>>>>>>> on my real website, from my real aviation business, =
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't have an avaition business you dumb ****. You have a
flea
>>>>>> pit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You should be so lucky.
>>>>
>>>> Then you would have something to do beside hanging around here and
>>>>> imitating Mxsmanic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope, I could do just like Jay and hire a bunch of drug addicts to
>> clean
>>>> up .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>
>>> 40
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Nope. You need remedial math as well as everything else.
>>
>> Bertie
> 49
>
>
>

Wrong again, fjukktard.

Its 64


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:%HdLj.65015$y05.56521
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:zOcLj.46404$f8.20952
>> @newsfe23.lga:
>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> news:3e41019c-4fd4-4727-bac4-cbff59bf7258
>> @p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to -----
>>>>
>>>> Another lame spoof.
>>>>
>>>> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sooo cold.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Oh, are you Danny's keeper now too?


Nope. I haven't got the time for that.
Too busy with my k00ks.

Now hang on while I change your papers, k00kie boi.

Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008$y05.58506
> @newsfe22.lga:
>>
> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>
> Its 64
>
>
> Bertie

66

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:%HdLj.65015$y05.56521
> @newsfe22.lga:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:zOcLj.46404$f8.20952
>>> @newsfe23.lga:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> news:3e41019c-4fd4-4727-bac4-cbff59bf7258
>>> @p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Feel free to -----
>>>>>
>>>>> Another lame spoof.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sooo cold.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Oh, are you Danny's keeper now too?
>
>
> Nope. I haven't got the time for that.
> Too busy with my k00ks.
>
> Now hang on while I change your papers, k00kie boi.
>
> Bertie
67

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033$y05.10043
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008$y05.58506
>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>
>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>
>> Its 64
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> 66
>
>
>

Nope.


bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:10eLj.65034$y05.58797
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:%HdLj.65015$y05.56521
>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:zOcLj.46404$f8.20952
>>>> @newsfe23.lga:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>> news:3e41019c-4fd4-4727-bac4-cbff59bf7258
>>>> @p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feel free to -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another lame spoof.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sooo cold.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Oh, are you Danny's keeper now too?
>>
>>
>> Nope. I haven't got the time for that.
>> Too busy with my k00ks.
>>
>> Now hang on while I change your papers, k00kie boi.
>>
>> Bertie
> 67
>
>
>

Good k00k!


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033$y05.10043
> @newsfe22.lga:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008$y05.58506
>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>
>>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>>
>>> Its 64
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> 66
>>
>>
>>
>
> Nope.
>
>
> bertie

72

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

Solo > wrote in
acolo.com:

> In article >
> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:10eLj.65034$y05.58797
>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>
>> >
>> > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> > .. .
>> >> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:%HdLj.65015
$y05.56521
>> >> @newsfe22.lga:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> >>> ...
>> >>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:zOcLj.46404
$f8.20952
>> >>>> @newsfe23.lga:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> > wrote in message
>> >>>>> news:3e41019c-4fd4-4727-bac4-cbff59bf7258
>> >>>> @p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >>>>>> On Apr 5, 8:38 pm, " >
wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Feel free to -----
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Another lame spoof.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Nice try, maxwell/mx/fakelfyboy.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Relax dumb ass, he's your pet, you earned him.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sooo cold.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bertie
>> >>>
>> >>> Oh, are you Danny's keeper now too?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Nope. I haven't got the time for that.
>> >> Too busy with my k00ks.
>> >>
>> >> Now hang on while I change your papers, k00kie boi.
>> >>
>> >> Bertie
>> > 67
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Good k00k!
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Zzzz.
>
>
Glad to be of service.


Bertie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:mpeLj.27076$KJ1.3280
@newsfe19.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033$y05.10043
>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008$y05.58506
>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>
>>>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>>>
>>>> Its 64
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> 66
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>
>> bertie
>
> 72
>
>
>

Ooops, almost missed this one!

Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:mpeLj.27076$KJ1.3280
> @newsfe19.lga:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033$y05.10043
>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008$y05.58506
>>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its 64
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>> 66
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>
>>> bertie
>>
>> 72
>>
>>
>>
>
> Ooops, almost missed this one!
>
> Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:RszLj.59107$yk5.5666
@newsfe18.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:mpeLj.27076$KJ1.3280
>> @newsfe19.lga:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033$y05.10043
>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008
$y05.58506
>>>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its 64
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>
>>>>> 66
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bertie
>>>
>>> 72
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ooops, almost missed this one!
>>
>> Bertie
>
>
>

Your back!

Miss me?

Missed you!


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:RszLj.59107$yk5.5666
> @newsfe18.lga:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:mpeLj.27076$KJ1.3280
>>> @newsfe19.lga:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> .. .
>>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033$y05.10043
>>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008
> $y05.58506
>>>>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its 64
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 66
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bertie
>>>>
>>>> 72
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ooops, almost missed this one!
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>>
>>
>
> Your back!
>
> Miss me?
>
> Missed you!
>
>
> Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:h7BLj.65637$y05.47390
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:RszLj.59107$yk5.5666
>> @newsfe18.lga:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:mpeLj.27076$KJ1.3280
>>>> @newsfe19.lga:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>> .. .
>>>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:t%dLj.65033
$y05.10043
>>>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:SBdLj.65008
>> $y05.58506
>>>>>>>> @newsfe22.lga:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wrong again, fjukktard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its 64
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 66
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bertie
>>>>>
>>>>> 72
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ooops, almost missed this one!
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Your back!
>>
>> Miss me?
>>
>> Missed you!
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
>
>

Awww, you did miss mee!


You keep missing me, in fact.




Bertie