Airworthness Reference

[Dan[_10_]]

Help!

I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an airplane
is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing tip cracks,
or a missing piece of carpeting.

And no, it's not the a/c maintenance manual.

I've searched the FAA site, Google, GPO, etc.

Apparently I'm having a brain cramp and can't think of the reference
or good keywords to use to locate.

Thanks,

Dan Mc

[[email protected]]

On Mar 30, 12:34 pm, Dan > wrote:
> Help!
>
> I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an airplane
> is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing tip cracks,
> or a missing piece of carpeting.
>
> And no, it's not the a/c maintenance manual.
>
> I've searched the FAA site, Google, GPO, etc.
>
> Apparently I'm having a brain cramp and can't think of the reference
> or good keywords to use to locate.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Mc

Being a Canadian and finding the FARs somewhat different, I often
find the need to look around. Do these help?

See page 9 of this one:
http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_guides/media/faa-g-8082-11a.pdf

Like Canada, the FAA doesn't seem to have a list of specific
items that can be missing or inop. There is provision for MELs,
specific to an operator, that can itemize certain things that are
permitted to be defective. Each MEL is approved separately and could
vary considerably depending on the inspector.

Dan

Dan

[Peter Clark]

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:35:21 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>On Mar 30, 12:34 pm, Dan > wrote:
>> Help!
>>
>> I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an airplane
>> is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing tip cracks,
>> or a missing piece of carpeting.
>>
>> And no, it's not the a/c maintenance manual.
>>
>> I've searched the FAA site, Google, GPO, etc.
>>
>> Apparently I'm having a brain cramp and can't think of the reference
>> or good keywords to use to locate.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan Mc
>
> Being a Canadian and finding the FARs somewhat different, I often
>find the need to look around. Do these help?
>
>See page 9 of this one:
>http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_guides/media/faa-g-8082-11a.pdf
>
> Like Canada, the FAA doesn't seem to have a list of specific
>items that can be missing or inop. There is provision for MELs,
>specific to an operator, that can itemize certain things that are
>permitted to be defective. Each MEL is approved separately and could
>vary considerably depending on the inspector.

In the absense of a MEL aren't the specific items are either
enumerated in the KOEL, equipment list, type certificate, or the part
under which the flight is conducted (I.E. 91 day VFR)?

I think the OP might be looking for something like AC 33.4-1 or part
43.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in news:0dd3237e-93b6-4d0b-889e-d81bbcaf82d7
@e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

> Help!
>
> I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an airplane
> is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing tip cracks,
> or a missing piece of carpeting.

It's called the configuration deviation list, or CDL

Bertie
>
>

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 9:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Dan > wrote in news:0dd3237e-93b6-4d0b-889e-d81bbcaf82d7
> @e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Help!
>
> > I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an airplane
> > is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing tip cracks,
> > or a missing piece of carpeting.
>
> It's called the configuration deviation list, or CDL
>
> Bertie
>

Is that per airplane model? I've looked through shop manuals and
haven't found a section/doc with that title....

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in
:

> On Mar 30, 9:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Dan > wrote in
>> news:0dd3237e-93b6-4d0b-889e-d81bbcaf82d7
>> @e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Help!
>>
>> > I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an
>> > airplane is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing
>> > tip cracks, or a missing piece of carpeting.
>>
>> It's called the configuration deviation list, or CDL
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> Is that per airplane model? I've looked through shop manuals and
> haven't found a section/doc with that title....
>
>
>
>

Yes, it's specific to a type. It specifies performance or limitations
down to a missing or damaged bit of airplane. For istance, you might be
able to fly without a small piece of fairing or a panel missing if you
apply a reduced max take off weight. I've never seen one except on
heavies, but the OP asked f there was any kind of document and that's
the only one I know of that meets the description


Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 9:42 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Dan > wrote :
>
>
>
> > On Mar 30, 9:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> >> Dan > wrote in
> >> news:0dd3237e-93b6-4d0b-889e-d81bbcaf82d7
> >> @e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > Help!
>
> >> > I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an
> >> > airplane is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having wing
> >> > tip cracks, or a missing piece of carpeting.
>
> >> It's called the configuration deviation list, or CDL
>
> >> Bertie
>
> > Is that per airplane model? I've looked through shop manuals and
> > haven't found a section/doc with that title....
>
> Yes, it's specific to a type. It specifies performance or limitations
> down to a missing or damaged bit of airplane. For istance, you might be
> able to fly without a small piece of fairing or a panel missing if you
> apply a reduced max take off weight. I've never seen one except on
> heavies, but the OP asked f there was any kind of document and that's
> the only one I know of that meets the description
>
> Bertie

OK.. I was OP..

I'm looking for that sort of reference document for a C172E, and A36,
and a C172N.

I thought there may be a generic FAA doc that specifies some generic
limitation/exceptions/etc.

Dan Mc

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dan > wrote in
:

> On Mar 30, 9:42 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Dan > wrote
>> innews:cc06cb5f-f0c2-425a-a6d5-fef30a1d65a9
@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.co
>> m:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 30, 9:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> >> Dan > wrote in
>> >> news:0dd3237e-93b6-4d0b-889e-d81bbcaf82d7
>> >> @e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> > Help!
>>
>> >> > I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an
>> >> > airplane is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having
>> >> > wing tip cracks, or a missing piece of carpeting.
>>
>> >> It's called the configuration deviation list, or CDL
>>
>> >> Bertie
>>
>> > Is that per airplane model? I've looked through shop manuals and
>> > haven't found a section/doc with that title....
>>
>> Yes, it's specific to a type. It specifies performance or limitations
>> down to a missing or damaged bit of airplane. For istance, you might
>> be able to fly without a small piece of fairing or a panel missing if
>> you apply a reduced max take off weight. I've never seen one except
>> on heavies, but the OP asked f there was any kind of document and
>> that's the only one I know of that meets the description
>>
>> Bertie
>
> OK.. I was OP..
>
> I'm looking for that sort of reference document for a C172E, and A36,
> and a C172N.
>
> I thought there may be a generic FAA doc that specifies some generic
> limitation/exceptions/etc.
>
> Dan Mc
>

Ah, OK. Well the things you are talking about ar largely covered in
arcane manuals like CAM 18, but I have it lying around somewhere and I
think it only refers to structures themselves.

Bertie

[Dan[_10_]]

On Mar 30, 9:56 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Dan > wrote :
>
> > On Mar 30, 9:42 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> >> Dan > wrote
> >> innews:cc06cb5f-f0c2-425a-a6d5-fef30a1d65a9
>
> @d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.co
>
>
>
> >> m:
>
> >> > On Mar 30, 9:30 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> >> >> Dan > wrote in
> >> >> news:0dd3237e-93b6-4d0b-889e-d81bbcaf82d7
> >> >> @e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> >> > Help!
>
> >> >> > I'm looking for the reference that IAs use to determine if an
> >> >> > airplane is airworthy despite missing a cowling screw, having
> >> >> > wing tip cracks, or a missing piece of carpeting.
>
> >> >> It's called the configuration deviation list, or CDL
>
> >> >> Bertie
>
> >> > Is that per airplane model? I've looked through shop manuals and
> >> > haven't found a section/doc with that title....
>
> >> Yes, it's specific to a type. It specifies performance or limitations
> >> down to a missing or damaged bit of airplane. For istance, you might
> >> be able to fly without a small piece of fairing or a panel missing if
> >> you apply a reduced max take off weight. I've never seen one except
> >> on heavies, but the OP asked f there was any kind of document and
> >> that's the only one I know of that meets the description
>
> >> Bertie
>
> > OK.. I was OP..
>
> > I'm looking for that sort of reference document for a C172E, and A36,
> > and a C172N.
>
> > I thought there may be a generic FAA doc that specifies some generic
> > limitation/exceptions/etc.
>
> > Dan Mc
>
> Ah, OK. Well the things you are talking about ar largely covered in
> arcane manuals like CAM 18, but I have it lying around somewhere and I
> think it only refers to structures themselves.
>
> Bertie

Ahh..ok.

I asked the IA I deal with yesterday and he said there were "allowable
deviations" (such as a certain number of missing cowling screws) but
then we got interrupted and I didn't get the reference.

Oh well...

[Denny]

Never saw any such reference for GA - and certainly not for the kind
of junk I fly that was certified by the CAA...

The OP is looking for certainty and it does not exist on the pilots
side of the equation... Let your A&P use his judgement when he signs
the plane off.. Watch him closely and learn... Then you too can amaze
others when you use that rare commodity called, 'common sense'...

denny