(USA) New glider inspections question

[Tuno]

I met with a DAR today with the intent of getting the Certificate of
Airworthiness (Experimental, Exhibition/Racing) for the new glass
slipper, but he could not complete the transaction because the logbook
does not contain an entry indicating inspection within the last 30
days by an FAA certified mechanic. (Not an "annual" or "100 hour
inspection". Just an ... "inspection".)

He said this is based on FAA Order 8130.2F, Section 10, Paragraph 159
b. (5):

"Verify that the appropriately rated FAA-certificated mechanic has
made an entry in the
aircraft records documenting the applicable inspections as referenced
in paragraph 159 of this order for
all aircraft (including new) within 30 days prior to submitting Form
8130-6."

Reading through paragraph 159, and paragraph 88 that it references,
it's not clear to me (1) what kind of inspection is required (beyond
an inspection of records), or (2) why the FAA representative issuing
the C of A cannot be the same person who performs the required
inspection (if only records are being inspected).

What gives here? Are two inspections actually required? (The DAR did
his own inspection today, but says he still requires a logbook entry
from someone else first.)

-confyoozed

[Doug Hoffman[_2_]]

I wrote:
> Yes. Two inspections are required. And the "normal" annual
> inspection by your mechanic must be done within 30 days prior to
> the DAR inspection. I went through this when I imported a glider
> from Canada. I don't recall being confused or surprised by this
> requirement. Maybe my DAR emphasized it when we spoke on the
> phone.
>

Sorry, I should have given more detail. The first inspection by your
mechanic will be the same kind of mechanical/functional "annual"
inspection one normally gets. The DAR, at least in my case, will be
looking for different things. This included at least the following: Was
the "EXPERIMENTAL" signage adequate? Did the compass have a calibration
card to go with? Was the N-number installed correctly? Was there a
proper manufacturer's placard affixed in the glider? Was all of the
paperwork for the glider in order? I think there may have been more but
I don't recall just now.

--
Regards,
-Doug

[Doug Hoffman]

Yes. Two inspections are required. And the "normal" annual
inspection by your mechanic must be done within 30 days prior to
the DAR inspection. I went through this when I imported a glider
from Canada. I don't recall being confused or surprised by this
requirement. Maybe my DAR emphasized it when we spoke on the
phone.

--
Regards,
Doug


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[raulb]

On Mar 30, 2:43*pm, Doug Hoffman <no.spam> wrote:
> I wrote:
> > Yes. *Two inspections are required. *And the "normal" annual
> > inspection by your mechanic must be done within 30 days prior to
> > the DAR inspection. *I went through this when I imported a glider
> > from Canada. *I don't recall being confused or surprised by this
> > requirement. *Maybe my DAR emphasized it when we spoke on the
> > phone.
>
There has to be an airworthiness inspection AND an annual inspection.

An AI, A&P, or DAR may disagree with me but as I recall, the
airworthiness inspection will include a weight and balance, assurances
that all of the ADs have been complied with, make certain that all of
the paperwork is done, make sure you have the proper instruments (no
metric), and an initial complete inspection which is more through than
an annual will be done. The annual can be made as part of this
airworthiness inspection, but must be entered in the log book
separately.

Just putting an "EXPERIMENTAL" sticker on the glider does not mean
that it is "EXPERIMENTAL." You have to have an FAA issued
Airworthiness Certificate which says that it is either "Experimental
Racing" or "Experimental Exhibition." You also have to have filed
the limitations (mine say that I can only fly the glider in a contest
or preparing for a contest, but other gliders have more restrictive
limitations) with the FAA and put a copy in the glider. Is the
"EXPERIMENTAL" sticker the proper size and located in a proper
location, ditto the "N" numbers.

There are other things checked during the initial airworthiness
inspection, but you have pretty much covered them in your question.

All the DAR should have to do is shuffle papers and charge you too
much for doing it.


> Sorry, I should have given more detail. *The first inspection by your
> mechanic will be the same kind of mechanical/functional "annual"
> inspection one normally gets. *The DAR, at least in my case, will be
> looking for different things. *This included at least the following: Was
> the "EXPERIMENTAL" signage adequate? *Did the compass have a calibration
> card to go with? *Was the N-number installed correctly? *Was there a
> proper manufacturer's placard affixed in the glider? *Was all of the
> paperwork for the glider in order? *I think there may have been more but
> I don't recall just now.
>
> --
> Regards,
> -Doug

[Tuno]

Thanks Doug and Raulb, and P3 who answered by e-mail. My DAR looked
for everything mentioned and has the (new) paperwork pretty much in
order, I just lost a week because I didn't know a condition inspection
was required first.

Where does one get "EXPERIMENTAL" decals? If I have to go to FastSigns
they'll misspell it, just like they did 2UNO.

~tuno

[[email protected]]

On Mar 30, 5:08*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> I met with a DAR today with the intent of getting the Certificate of
> Airworthiness (Experimental, Exhibition/Racing) for the new glass
> slipper, but he could not complete the transaction because the logbook
> does not contain an entry indicating inspection within the last 30
> days by an FAA certified mechanic. (Not an "annual" or "100 hour
> inspection". Just an ... "inspection".)
>
> He said this is based on FAA Order 8130.2F, Section 10, Paragraph 159
> b. (5):
>
> "Verify that the appropriately rated FAA-certificated mechanic has
> made an entry in the
> aircraft records documenting the applicable inspections as referenced
> in paragraph 159 of this order for
> all aircraft (including new) within 30 days prior to submitting Form
> 8130-6."
>
> Reading through paragraph 159, and paragraph 88 that it references,
> it's not clear to me (1) what kind of inspection is required (beyond
> an inspection of records), or (2) why the FAA representative issuing
> the C of A cannot be the same person who performs the required
> inspection (if only records are being inspected).
>
> What gives here? Are two inspections actually required? (The DAR did
> his own inspection today, but says he still requires a logbook entry
> from someone else first.)
>
> -confyoozed

Your DAR is not doing and inspection. He is reviewing your
application fo airworthiness and all related records as well as doing
a
check of any items he determines need to be checked to confirm that
the
person signing the glider off as airworthy has done it right. He does
not determine airworthiness, only confirms
that an authorized person did.
In your case, this can be either a licensed maintenance technician,( A
or A&P) or
an A&P with inspection authorization( IA).
This person must do, for your glider, a Condition Inspection and
certify:
"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on(insert date) in
accordance
with the scope and detail of appendix D of 43 and found to be in a
condition for safe operation."
In addition the DAR will expect to see current weight and balance, all
manuals, and the inspection checklist used by the person doing the
inspection.
Usual hot spots:
Missing compass card
Cockpit labels incomplete or don't agree with manual or wt & bal.
Missing or wrong size Experimental labels
Missing external ID plate(or have SSA exemption copy).
Good Luck
UH

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 31, 6:39*am, Tuno > wrote:
> Where does one get "EXPERIMENTAL" decals? If I have to go to FastSigns
> they'll misspell it, just like they did 2UNO.


I printed my own and covered it with clear shelf paper. It's looking
a bit tired after 5 years but it was good enough at the time. The
minimum height must be met but there seems to be no limitation on
character width. I've seen some creative narrow fonts used to reduce
the placard length.

BTW I was talking with a DAR last week while he was waiting to get all
the paperwork to issue an experimental ticket on a large transport
category aircraft. He was an ex FAA inspector but he assured me there
was no regulation that required all DAR's to have been FAA
inspectors.

Andy

[Wayne Paul]

"Tuno" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Doug and Raulb, and P3 who answered by e-mail. My DAR looked
> for everything mentioned and has the (new) paperwork pretty much in
> order, I just lost a week because I didn't know a condition inspection
> was required first.
>
> Where does one get "EXPERIMENTAL" decals? If I have to go to FastSigns
> they'll misspell it, just like they did 2UNO.
>
> ~tuno

Wings and Wheels http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page38.htm

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 31, 7:30*am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
> Wings and Wheelshttp://www.wingsandwheels.com/page38.htm

I'm all in favor of supporting our few soaring goods suppliers but it
appears you can get 2 from this vendor for a much lower price.

http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Placards/placards.html

[Tuno]

Ha. I picked up a set of 2" decals at Office Depot on the way home
today, then read my e-mail and found out my dealer had sent me a
sticker, then the A&P showed up, and he had one with him. When it
rains, it pours!

Sticker, check; condition inspection, check. Wow ... I may actually
get to fly her this Friday!

2U^HNO

ps BIG thank you to A&P and Zuni and Citation pilot Bryce Sammeter,
who followed this adventure online and volunteered to drive 80 miles
round trip to help me out!

[Doug Hoffman]

Tuno wrote:


> Where does one get "EXPERIMENTAL" decals? If I have to go to
> FastSigns
> they'll misspell it, just like they did

Hardware store: mailbox decals. That way you can misspell it
yourself. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[BT]

Tuno.. who was the DAR that did the airworthy for you..
pvt email is ok
BT

"Tuno" > wrote in message
...
> Ha. I picked up a set of 2" decals at Office Depot on the way home
> today, then read my e-mail and found out my dealer had sent me a
> sticker, then the A&P showed up, and he had one with him. When it
> rains, it pours!
>
> Sticker, check; condition inspection, check. Wow ... I may actually
> get to fly her this Friday!
>
> 2U^HNO
>
> ps BIG thank you to A&P and Zuni and Citation pilot Bryce Sammeter,
> who followed this adventure online and volunteered to drive 80 miles
> round trip to help me out!

[[email protected]]

Tuno,

Happy to help anytime, I knew you were in a pinch and it would not
have been right not to help.

Feel free to spread the word around the area as it looks good on my IA
application........not to mention I'm pretty available as a "Slacker
Pilot" and only work every other week.

[Tuno]

BT,

The condition inspection was done by Bryce Sammeter and the C of A was
done by Ronald Rich. Both highly recommended. I'll send you their
contacts by e-mail.

2NO (never so happy to have a pink slip!)