injected planes, no more owner oil changes, contact AOPA

[Robert M. Gary]

AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.

-Robert

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Huh? The way I read that AD, it has nothing to do with oil changes. The
repetitive inspection portion of it will be a PITA, which states :
At every engine oil change or within every 50 hours of engine run time,
whichever occurs

first, repeat the inspection and remedial steps specified in paragraphs (f)
through (h)(9) of this AD.

It in no way makes oil changes by the owner prohibited. If you have other
info, please post it.

Jim



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>
> -Robert

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

As a side note, if you obtain a new updated gasket for the servo plug, your
A&P can install it and eliminated the repetitive portion of that AD.
Jim

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>
> -Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 1, 12:18*pm, "Jim Burns" > wrote:
> Huh? *The way I read that AD, it has nothing to do with oil changes. *The
> repetitive inspection portion of it will be a PITA, which states :
> At every engine oil change or within every 50 hours of engine run time,
> whichever occurs
>
> first, repeat the inspection and remedial steps specified in paragraphs (f)
> through (h)(9) of this AD.
>
> It in no way makes oil changes by the owner prohibited. *If you have other
> info, please post it.

The AD says "At every oil change...". There for when you go out to
your plane to change the oil you can no longer fly it and must wait to
schedule an A&P to sign the AD. Draining the oil makes the plane
unairworthy.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 1, 12:34*pm, "Jim Burns" > wrote:
> As a side note, if you obtain a new updated gasket for the servo plug, your
> A&P can install it and eliminated the repetitive portion of that AD.
> Jim

Legally, the A&P can do it. However, there are two issues with this...
1) The fuel shops say retorquing the nut requires a new flow test. The
torque on the nut affects flows. They recommend never allowing an A&P
to touch the servo.
2) The safety wire used on the nut has "tamper evident" attachment. If
the A&P cuts the wire there is no warranty on the servo.

On the Mooney its a major buger of a job to R&R the servo.

-Robert

[Peter Clark]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 10:04:55 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
> wrote:

>AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
>from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
>an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
>Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
>think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
>quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
>another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.

The only thing that AD does is require an inspection of a fuel servo
plug for security. It takes 10 minutes (most of which is getting at
the thing, which if you've already gotten it open for the oil change
makes it take 5 seconds) and if you can't get the nearest mechanic to
sign an entry saying that they complied with the job then you're not
doing something right. It doesn't stop you from changing your oil in
any way, shape, or form.

[Peter Clark]

Is there a new version of the AD? I don't see anything in there under
alternative methods of compliance showing a method other than the
inspection to comply.

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:34:14 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>As a side note, if you obtain a new updated gasket for the servo plug, your
>A&P can install it and eliminated the repetitive portion of that AD.
>Jim
>
>"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
>> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
>> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
>> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
>> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
>> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
>> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
>> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>>
>> -Robert
>

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

http://www.precisionairmotive.com/Publications/PRS-107%20Rev2.pdf

Gives warranty info, including a $100 offer to have the work performed.
Precision's website has a warranty claim form.

No mention of a flow test being required or recommended, but I don't doubt
that your fuel shop would recommend it, certainly can't hurt.

The plug serves as a cover to the internal mixture adjustment mechanism of
the servo, however, the gasket under the plug also seals the plug hole which
is on the "air" side of the servo. If the plug does not seal, it can suck
air and the mixture will be leaner than desired, however, it seems Precision
feels that an A&P is more than qualified to replace the gasket.

Jim


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 1, 12:34 pm, "Jim Burns" > wrote:
> As a side note, if you obtain a new updated gasket for the servo plug,
your
> A&P can install it and eliminated the repetitive portion of that AD.
> Jim

Legally, the A&P can do it. However, there are two issues with this...
1) The fuel shops say retorquing the nut requires a new flow test. The
torque on the nut affects flows. They recommend never allowing an A&P
to touch the servo.
2) The safety wire used on the nut has "tamper evident" attachment. If
the A&P cuts the wire there is no warranty on the servo.

On the Mooney its a major buger of a job to R&R the servo.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 1, 2:21*pm, Peter Clark
> wrote:
*It takes 10 minutes (most of which is getting at
> the thing, which if you've already gotten it open for the oil change
> makes it take 5 seconds) and if you can't get the nearest mechanic to
> sign an entry saying that they complied with the job then you're not
> doing something right. *It doesn't stop you from changing your oil in
> any way, shape, or form.

A couple things you probably have not considered...
1) Before this AD I could change my oil on the weekend or earily AM
before work (which is when I usually do it), now you have to
coordinate the time when the shop is open (take the AM off work)
2) No A&P is going to bill you for 5 minutes. You'll be billed at
least 30 minutes, meaning you might as well have the A&P change the
oil. The benefit of changing your own oil is gone.

If you don't see the above points as a lose in ability/freedom then I
can't help you. If the AD had something to do with oil I would be ok
with it but it doesn't. Making the aircraft unairworthy because the
pilot changed the oil doesn't in anyway make the AD any more
effective.

-Robert

[Jim Burns]

The AD is specific to a specific part numbered gasket. The Precision SB
indicates a new gasket that, if installed, eliminates this AD.
Jim


"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> Is there a new version of the AD? I don't see anything in there under
> alternative methods of compliance showing a method other than the
> inspection to comply.
>
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:34:14 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> > wrote:
>
>>As a side note, if you obtain a new updated gasket for the servo plug,
>>your
>>A&P can install it and eliminated the repetitive portion of that AD.
>>Jim
>>
>>"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
>>> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
>>> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
>>> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
>>> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
>>> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
>>> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
>>> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>>

[Peter Clark]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
> wrote:

>On Apr 1, 2:21*pm, Peter Clark
> wrote:
> *It takes 10 minutes (most of which is getting at
>> the thing, which if you've already gotten it open for the oil change
>> makes it take 5 seconds) and if you can't get the nearest mechanic to
>> sign an entry saying that they complied with the job then you're not
>> doing something right. *It doesn't stop you from changing your oil in
>> any way, shape, or form.
>
>A couple things you probably have not considered...
>1) Before this AD I could change my oil on the weekend or earily AM
>before work (which is when I usually do it), now you have to
>coordinate the time when the shop is open (take the AM off work)
>2) No A&P is going to bill you for 5 minutes. You'll be billed at
>least 30 minutes, meaning you might as well have the A&P change the
>oil. The benefit of changing your own oil is gone.
>
>If you don't see the above points as a lose in ability/freedom then I
>can't help you. If the AD had something to do with oil I would be ok
>with it but it doesn't. Making the aircraft unairworthy because the
>pilot changed the oil doesn't in anyway make the AD any more
>effective.

The AD requires inspection of the non-changed part (thanks to those
who corrected me on that, I didn't realize there was a terminating
action). It would have been nice of them to sync the inspection times
to the SB (if the plug has been re-torqued the SB says annually or 120
hours of time in service), but it doesn't stop you from doing your oil
change every 5 hours, or 25 hours, it only stops you from more than 50
hours TIS since the last inspection. They're not linked.

[Peter Clark]

OK, re-reading the AD it does say each change. Annyoing, but at least
there's a terminating action (replace the gasket).

Sorry. Teach me to drink and type.

[Jim Burns]

"Peter Clark" wrote
> Sorry. Teach me to drink and type.

Lol... sounds like you already know how... you just need a few lessons on
drinking and reading :)

Jim

[BT]

if you do not have RSA-5 or RSA-10 injection servos or have not had maint
done on that engine since Aug 2006.
A one time inspection to confirm the part numbers and log inspection, then
write it off as N/A by the A&P.

I did not see any reference to a permanent fix to do away with the 50hr
repetitive inspection. For those that need it.
BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>
> -Robert

[BT]

I would think that the AD would have to specify that replacement of the part
per the SB would negate the AD, not the other way around.
BT

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> The AD is specific to a specific part numbered gasket. The Precision SB
> indicates a new gasket that, if installed, eliminates this AD.
> Jim
>
>
> "Peter Clark" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Is there a new version of the AD? I don't see anything in there under
>> alternative methods of compliance showing a method other than the
>> inspection to comply.
>>
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:34:14 -0600, "Jim Burns"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>As a side note, if you obtain a new updated gasket for the servo plug,
>>>your
>>>A&P can install it and eliminated the repetitive portion of that AD.
>>>Jim
>>>
>>>"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
>>>> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
>>>> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
>>>> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
>>>> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
>>>> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
>>>> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
>>>> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>>>>
>>>> -Robert
>>>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

It's a rather fluid situation. Precision's latest revision to PRS-107 is
dated 3/21/08
http://www.precisionairmotive.com/Publications/PRS-107%20Rev2.pdf
and lists terminating action for their company SB by installing a new
2577258 gasket via their instructions and stamping the hex plug with a
letter "G". In a round-about way this action terminates the AD because when
completed, the servo will no longer contain the 365533 gasket to which the
AD refers.
Jim

"BT" > wrote in message
...
> if you do not have RSA-5 or RSA-10 injection servos or have not had maint
> done on that engine since Aug 2006.
> A one time inspection to confirm the part numbers and log inspection, then
> write it off as N/A by the A&P.
>
> I did not see any reference to a permanent fix to do away with the 50hr
> repetitive inspection. For those that need it.
> BT
>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> ...
>> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
>> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
>> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
>> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
>> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
>> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
>> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>>
>> -Robert
>
>

[BT]

true.. that is a "round about way".. I would expect that there would be a
revised AD forthcoming from the good ole FAA to recognize the "AD
Terminating" procedure.

BT

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> It's a rather fluid situation. Precision's latest revision to PRS-107 is
> dated 3/21/08
> http://www.precisionairmotive.com/Publications/PRS-107%20Rev2.pdf
> and lists terminating action for their company SB by installing a new
> 2577258 gasket via their instructions and stamping the hex plug with a
> letter "G". In a round-about way this action terminates the AD because
> when completed, the servo will no longer contain the 365533 gasket to
> which the AD refers.
> Jim
>
> "BT" > wrote in message
> ...
>> if you do not have RSA-5 or RSA-10 injection servos or have not had maint
>> done on that engine since Aug 2006.
>> A one time inspection to confirm the part numbers and log inspection,
>> then write it off as N/A by the A&P.
>>
>> I did not see any reference to a permanent fix to do away with the 50hr
>> repetitive inspection. For those that need it.
>> BT
>>
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> AD 2008-06-51 prohibits injected (mostly Lycoming) aircraft owners
>>> from changing their own oil (really makes the plane unairworthy after
>>> an oil change until you get an A&P sign off).
>>> Talking to AOPA about this I really don't get the impression that they
>>> think this is very important. I would encourage everyone to send a
>>> quick email to AOPA and let them know that the FAA needs to find
>>> another way to do this AD other than restricting oil changes.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>>
>>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Apr 1, 6:02*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> if you do not have RSA-5 or RSA-10 injection servos or have not had maint
> done on that engine since Aug 2006.
> A one time inspection to confirm the part numbers and log inspection, then
> write it off as N/A by the A&P.

Yea, as in remove the service (4 hrs labor) send it to a fuel shop
then reinstall it (4 hours labor). Removing the nut by anyone other
than a fuel service shop voids the warranty and disrupts the correct
flow.


> I did not see any reference to a permanent fix to do away with the 50hr
> repetitive inspection. For those that need it.

No one will do this every 50 hours. Since you have to do it oil change
it will already be done. Now you have to pay an A&P to do your oil
change (or just pay him the 1/2 hr labor to do the 5 min AD and have
him sit the other 25 minutes on your dime).

-Robert