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gmcd05
April 7th 08, 04:47 AM
Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? I know
the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
way.... Does anyone have info on this?

April 7th 08, 04:54 AM
On Apr 6, 10:47 pm, gmcd05 > wrote:
> Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? I know
> the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
> transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
> way.... Does anyone have info on this?

theres not a lot of reduction in hourly requirements for the PP-ASEL
add on to the glider certificate. In fact, I dont know that there is
any gain. you can make some real gains towards your commercial
airplane and possibly instrument rating if you have many flights that
ended in a landing more than 50 nautical miles away from the departure
point. It is spelled out fairly well in Part 61.

Andy[_1_]
April 7th 08, 05:32 AM
On Apr 6, 8:47*pm, gmcd05 > wrote:
> Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? *I know
> the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
> transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
> way.... *Does anyone have info on this?

If you are a competent glider pilot you can expect to solo an airplane
in less time than someone with no flight experience. You may also
know what your feet are for, but your instructor may not. Section
61.109: Aeronautical experience defines the requirements.
Commercial and ATP allow you to use a lot of glider time but I don't
think there is any benefit for private except you should be competent
in the minimum specified time whereas most student pilots are not.


Andy

BT
April 7th 08, 06:06 AM
As Andy said.. you'll have more air sense, and know what the feet are for..
But review 61.109 (a) for "Airplane" and you'll note that most of the
training and experience hours have to be logged in an airplane.
Not Aircraft, and not glider, so you're up for the minimums as specified in
61.109.

BT

"gmcd05" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? I know
> the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
> transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
> way.... Does anyone have info on this?

April 7th 08, 06:10 AM
As one who recently added single engine after 20 years of strictly
glider flying I can say that one thing you don't learn flying gliders
that they are really picky about in airplane flying is holding
altitude. Man, I sucked at that!

Also, get a really good comfortable ANR headset like a 30-3G or Bose.
Airplanes are painfully loud!

MM

Vaughn Simon
April 7th 08, 11:33 AM
"Andy" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 8:47 pm, gmcd05 > wrote:

>If you are a competent glider pilot you can expect to solo an airplane
>in less time than someone with no flight experience.

It didn't really work that way for me. (Of course, I made no attempt to rush
things) Don't forget the law of primacy, there are some things that you have to
unlearn from gliders. Keep in your mind that landings in the pattern suddenly
become optional, a go-around is a whole new possibility to fit into your
decision making process.

Your instructor will not be amused by your first attempts at stall recovery.
He will insist that you use power, and you will wonder why.

Vaughn

Evan Ludeman
April 7th 08, 12:18 PM
On Apr 6, 11:47 pm, gmcd05 > wrote:
> Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? I know
> the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
> transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
> way.... Does anyone have info on this?

Training requirements are in no way reduced, but some of your glider
time may be applicable to the minimum time requirements. I did just
this c 1992 and had ~35 hrs SEL the day of my checkride. But the
bottom line is that you have to be able to meet the practical test
standards.

rlovinggood
April 7th 08, 12:29 PM
On Apr 7, 1:10*am, wrote:
> As one who recently added single engine after 20 years of strictly
> glider flying I can say that one thing you don't learn flying gliders
> that they are really picky about in airplane flying is holding
> altitude. *Man, I sucked at that!
>
> Also, get a really good comfortable ANR headset like a 30-3G or Bose.
> Airplanes are painfully loud!
>
> MM

I agree with all that's been said. I "corrupted" my glider-only
ticket a few years ago with the Single Engine Land license. I too
sucked, and still do, at "holding" altitude in an airplane. Turns
around a point? Yea, I'm drifting with the wind, so what? Oh yea.
Stall recovery. Easy. Just drop the nose. POWER. ADD POWER. I
keep forgetting about the throttle. One other thing to remember:
Range. When flying the glider, the "range" is the preset task and all
the variables involved. In the airplane, there's only so much fuel in
the tanks, plus the other variables. When four and five hour flights
are somewhat "natural" in a glider, the ol' Cezzna 150/152 will be on
the ground and out of gas at four hours.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

John Smith
April 7th 08, 12:32 PM
wrote:

> one thing you don't learn flying gliders that they are
> really picky about in airplane flying is holding altitude.

When, on my first powered flight in mountains, I hit a strong downdraft,
my natural reaction was to push the stick forward. My instructor was not
amused, pulled the stick back and asked me to hold altitude! We had a
long discussion after that.

Other things to get used to: You don't need airbrakes because the whole
plane is just one huge airbrake. When your approach is too high, just
push, the airspeed won't increase.

Andy[_1_]
April 7th 08, 03:23 PM
On Apr 7, 4:32*am, John Smith > wrote:

> When, on my first powered flight in mountains, I hit a strong downdraft,
> my natural reaction was to push the stick forward. My instructor was not
> amused, pulled the stick back and asked me to hold altitude! We had a
> long discussion after that.

I wonder how that discussion turned out. I always use thermals when
flying cross country in the airplane and work ridge, wave and thermal
lift in the mountains. The only time I care about being on a constant
or assigned altitude is when on an instrument flight plan or when
flying airways. The hemispheric rule only applies when you are in
level flight not when climbing or descending.

On the way back from Arizona breakfast runs other club pilots usually
complain about the turbulence. I usually reply that I didn't notice
any turbulence but there were some great thermals!

Andy

April 7th 08, 08:04 PM
On Apr 7, 5:18*am, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
> On Apr 6, 11:47 pm, gmcd05 > wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> > airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? *
>
> [...] But the
> bottom line is that you have to be able to meet the practical test
> standards.

Nobody has mentioned that you need to take a knowledge test [14CFR
61.63(b)(5) does not exempt glider pilots from this, although it
exempts power pilots from the glider "written."]

The Practical Test Standards don't give you much credit for being
rated, either; expect to do the whole flight test.

A little off-topic...
I teach my power students to do stall recoveries both with and without
power. Why? One accidental stall scenario is trying to "stretch a
glide" after an engine failure. Furthermore, recovering without
power really teaches what a stall is (exceeding the critical angle of
attack, not the horse hockey in the FAA and commercial books). Too
many CFIs think that power is part of the recovery; well, it is,
sometimes (get more airflow over the wing), but the real need for
power is to climb.

In a multi (OK, this is more than a little off-topic), you can't add
power in a stall recovery until you know that both engines are
running. That little bit of yaw might have been a spin entry, but it
might have been Vmc, and adding power makes the latter worse. So, get
the airplane flying, then add power.

April 7th 08, 08:24 PM
On Apr 7, 6:33*am, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
*Keep in your mind that landings in the pattern suddenly
> become optional, a go-around is a whole new possibility to fit into your
> decision making process.
> * Your instructor will not be amused by your first attempts at stall recovery.
> He will insist that you use power, and you will wonder why.
> Vaughn


Vaughn you raised 2 good points.
As for the go around, and as a glider pilot that added power..... And
with the disclaimer that I am just a normal pilot, no amazing skill
set that the next glider pilot doesn't have....

I have to say that I don't get this whole Go Around thing. Other than
in my initial lessons with the power instructor I have never been in a
pattern that I had to do a go around for. If you enter the pattern at
the correct height and speed, you should have no reason to do a go
around.

I wonder out loud if teaching power pilots they have that option
creates more problems than if they were taught to land the plane the
first time around like "We" are.

Doug

April 7th 08, 08:28 PM
On Apr 7, 2:24 pm, " >
wrote:
> On Apr 7, 6:33 am, "Vaughn Simon" >
> wrote:
> Keep in your mind that landings in the pattern suddenly
>
> > become optional, a go-around is a whole new possibility to fit into your
> > decision making process.
> > Your instructor will not be amused by your first attempts at stall recovery.
> > He will insist that you use power, and you will wonder why.
> > Vaughn
>
> Vaughn you raised 2 good points.
> As for the go around, and as a glider pilot that added power..... And
> with the disclaimer that I am just a normal pilot, no amazing skill
> set that the next glider pilot doesn't have....
>
> I have to say that I don't get this whole Go Around thing. Other than
> in my initial lessons with the power instructor I have never been in a
> pattern that I had to do a go around for. If you enter the pattern at
> the correct height and speed, you should have no reason to do a go
> around.
>
> I wonder out loud if teaching power pilots they have that option
> creates more problems than if they were taught to land the plane the
> first time around like "We" are.
>
> Doug

the go around is more often used for those times when someone or
something decides to make use of the runway during the time you were
going to land on it. like, when a glider pulls out to stage for
takeoff.

Evan Ludeman
April 7th 08, 08:32 PM
On Apr 7, 3:04 pm, wrote:
> On Apr 7, 5:18 am, Evan Ludeman > wrote:
>
> > On Apr 6, 11:47 pm, gmcd05 > wrote:
>
> > > Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> > > airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider?
>
> > [...] But the
> > bottom line is that you have to be able to meet the practical test
> > standards.
>
> Nobody has mentioned that you need to take a knowledge test [14CFR
> 61.63(b)(5) does not exempt glider pilots from this, although it
> exempts power pilots from the glider "written."]
>
> The Practical Test Standards don't give you much credit for being
> rated, either; expect to do the whole flight test.

In fact, if you show up for your practical with less than 40 hrs SEL,
as I did, be prepared to get tested rather thoroughly. The DE was,
shall we say, initially unimpressed with my logbook. He went well
past PP-SEL practical test standards with me (unusual attitude
recoveries under the hood, partial panel was particularly memorable --
I'd certainly never done that before). I think his bottom line was
twofold: a) ensuring that I met the test standards, all of them, and
b) seeing how I responded under pressure. He just kept turning up the
heat until I was really working hard, then kept it there.

April 7th 08, 09:01 PM
On Apr 7, 3:28*pm, wrote:
> the go around is more often used for those times when someone or
> something decides to make use of the runway during the time you were
> going to land on it. *like, when a glider pulls out to stage for
> takeoff.

You must fly at an airport with amazing power pilots! I get to see
about 3 or so go arounds each weekend.

Doug

Bill Daniels
April 7th 08, 09:19 PM
" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 6:33 am, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
Keep in your mind that landings in the pattern suddenly
> become optional, a go-around is a whole new possibility to fit into your
> decision making process.
> Your instructor will not be amused by your first attempts at stall
> recovery.
> He will insist that you use power, and you will wonder why.
> Vaughn


Vaughn you raised 2 good points.
As for the go around, and as a glider pilot that added power..... And
with the disclaimer that I am just a normal pilot, no amazing skill
set that the next glider pilot doesn't have....

I have to say that I don't get this whole Go Around thing. Other than
in my initial lessons with the power instructor I have never been in a
pattern that I had to do a go around for. If you enter the pattern at
the correct height and speed, you should have no reason to do a go
around.

I wonder out loud if teaching power pilots they have that option
creates more problems than if they were taught to land the plane the
first time around like "We" are.

Doug

I had quite a bit of glider time when I added my first 'power' rating -
which was a Commercial SEL since, given the credit I got for my logged
glider time, the Commercial didn't take all that much more time than a
Private. Under then current rules, 100 hours of my glider time counted
against the 200 hours a Commercail SEL required.

During training, a go-around never came up since the instructor's technique
was to wait until a student screwed up an approach. I didn't screw up so
the lesson was never taught.

Then one day as I was putting down a very long, slow approach waiting for
the corporate jet on the runway to finish his checklist, I started thinking
about go-arounds. It suddenly occured to me that if an airplane were to
taxi onto the runway at the last second, I might revert to glider technique
and land the airplane on the grass between the runway and taxiway. Hmmm....
That might be very hard to explain.

I called the tower and asked for a low pass over the numbers and a go-around
to get some practice with the throttle thingy.

Bill Daniels

J a c k
April 7th 08, 11:53 PM
wrote:

> I have to say that I don't get this whole Go Around thing. Other than
> in my initial lessons with the power instructor I have never been in a
> pattern that I had to do a go around for. If you enter the pattern at
> the correct height and speed, you should have no reason to do a go
> around.


Doug,

Stick with it, you'll find a reason in just a few more hours: there are
dozens of them. Don't ever think you've seen it all in aviation.


Jack

Steve
April 8th 08, 02:54 AM
My experience was similar - about 35 hours SEL for the ticket. And my
challenges were similar to those previously reported. However, I'd be
curious how many hours is typical for ab initio? I've heard it's a rare
student that gets by with the minimum.

Evan Ludeman wrote:
> On Apr 6, 11:47 pm, gmcd05 > wrote:
>> Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
>> airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? I know
>> the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
>> transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
>> way.... Does anyone have info on this?
>
> Training requirements are in no way reduced, but some of your glider
> time may be applicable to the minimum time requirements. I did just
> this c 1992 and had ~35 hrs SEL the day of my checkride. But the
> bottom line is that you have to be able to meet the practical test
> standards.

Tony Verhulst
April 8th 08, 03:33 AM
> Other things to get used to: You don't need airbrakes because the whole
> plane is just one huge airbrake. When your approach is too high, just
> push, the airspeed won't increase.


That works (to a point) in a Cessna. Try that in a Mooney and you'll get
a very close look at the numbers on the far end of the runway as you go
by them. It depends on the airplane.

Tony

Tony Verhulst
April 8th 08, 03:37 AM
> Your instructor will not be amused by your first attempts at stall recovery.
> He will insist that you use power, and you will wonder why.


And he'll wonder what the heck you are thinking when you push the nose
below the horizon - Level the airplane and add power.

Tony

sisu1a
April 8th 08, 04:07 AM
On Apr 7, 7:33 pm, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> > Other things to get used to: You don't need airbrakes because the whole
> > plane is just one huge airbrake. When your approach is too high, just
> > push, the airspeed won't increase.
>
> That works (to a point) in a Cessna. Try that in a Mooney and you'll get
> a very close look at the numbers on the far end of the runway as you go
> by them. It depends on the airplane.
>
> Tony

Don't they put airbrakes on those Moony things, some type of dragons
teeth arrangement?

Paul

BT
April 8th 08, 05:27 AM
>
> Other things to get used to: You don't need airbrakes because the whole
> plane is just one huge airbrake. When your approach is too high, just
> push, the airspeed won't increase.

Yes it will, it depends on the airplane.
BT

BT
April 8th 08, 05:30 AM
"Steve" > wrote in message
news:vfAKj.3242$N62.1743@trndny07...
> My experience was similar - about 35 hours SEL for the ticket. And my
> challenges were similar to those previously reported. However, I'd be
> curious how many hours is typical for ab initio? I've heard it's a rare
> student that gets by with the minimum.
>

A discussion last year in Rec.Aviation.Students revealed that the national
average is 65-70 hrs with 40 being the required minimum.

BT

April 8th 08, 03:15 PM
On Apr 7, 6:53*pm, J a c k > wrote:
> Doug,
> Stick with it, you'll find a reason in just a few more hours: there are
> dozens of them. Don't ever think you've seen it all in aviation.
> Jack

Jack,
Of course I haven't seen it all. I'm sure I'll be presented with a
good reason to do a go around. Hopefully though it won't be because I
didn't fly the pattern properly.

Doug

Ralph Jones[_2_]
April 8th 08, 05:27 PM
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:19:52 -0600, "Bill Daniels"
<bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
[snip]
>
>Then one day as I was putting down a very long, slow approach waiting for
>the corporate jet on the runway to finish his checklist, I started thinking
>about go-arounds. It suddenly occured to me that if an airplane were to
>taxi onto the runway at the last second, I might revert to glider technique
>and land the airplane on the grass between the runway and taxiway. Hmmm....
>That might be very hard to explain.
>
>I called the tower and asked for a low pass over the numbers and a go-around
>to get some practice with the throttle thingy.
>

The go-around merits as much training and practice as any other
maneuver. In certain situations -- a Cessna with full flaps, for
instance -- there is a great deal of opportunity to screw it up. And
when you do screw it up, you're likely to be doing so in close
proximity to another airplane that may or may not know you're there...

rj

April 8th 08, 06:28 PM
On Apr 8, 12:27*pm, Ralph Jones > wrote:
In certain situations -- a Cessna with full flaps, for
> instance -- there is a great deal of opportunity to screw it up. And
> when you do screw it up, you're likely to be doing so in close
> proximity to another airplane that may or may not know you're there...
> rj


Ralph I fly a 1966 150, that year still had 40 degree flaps. I'm
curious what you find more challenging about the Cessna with full
flaps? Perhaps I mis spoke as Hillary would say....it's not that I
don't think the maneuver should be taught, it's that I don't think
enough emphasis is placed on nailing your landing the first time
around.

Doug

Ralph Jones[_2_]
April 8th 08, 08:48 PM
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:28:09 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>On Apr 8, 12:27*pm, Ralph Jones > wrote:
> In certain situations -- a Cessna with full flaps, for
>> instance -- there is a great deal of opportunity to screw it up. And
>> when you do screw it up, you're likely to be doing so in close
>> proximity to another airplane that may or may not know you're there...
>> rj
>
>
>Ralph I fly a 1966 150, that year still had 40 degree flaps. I'm
>curious what you find more challenging about the Cessna with full
>flaps? Perhaps I mis spoke as Hillary would say....it's not that I
>don't think the maneuver should be taught, it's that I don't think
>enough emphasis is placed on nailing your landing the first time
>around.

Agreed, the later Cessnas will protect you from some degree of folly
with less flap extension, but you still have to arrest your descent in
an airplane with very little thrust margin. You have to do it quickly,
with a rapid power increase, rapid onset of P-factor, and you may have
to maneuver horizontally at the same time. If you don't know exactly
what the conflict is, you may be descending on top of somebody who
made a straight-in out of sunlit haze...I've seen a few very dicey
situations just like that.

It's not that the go-around is especially hard: just that it's as
important to master as any other maneuver your airplane can do. You
really should be able to land without stalling as you turn final, too,
but in my CFI'ing days I wouldn't have let you get off without
learning to recover from that.

rj

April 8th 08, 09:03 PM
On Apr 8, 3:48*pm, Ralph Jones > wrote:
If you don't know exactly
> what the conflict is, you may be descending on top of somebody who
> made a straight-in out of sunlit haze...I've seen a few very dicey
> situations just like that.
> rj


OK, now we're getting somewhere! I fully agree with you and it brings
up another pet peeve of mine about power that gliders don't seem to
suffer from. It's called Courtesy. Somehow a glider field can have
gliders all over the place, more than one in pattern, the towplane
taking off with someone in tow etc.... all at the same time and we
somehow manage to get through the day.

On the power side, I've come across more clueless Yoke holders busting
patterns, not using a radio, cutting people off, descending without
looking, overtaking and the list goes on.

So if you have to use a go around to save yourself from the clueless,
that's fine by me!!!

Doug

April 8th 08, 09:35 PM
On Apr 7, 3:01 pm, " >
wrote:
> On Apr 7, 3:28 pm, wrote:
>
> > the go around is more often used for those times when someone or
> > something decides to make use of the runway during the time you were
> > going to land on it. like, when a glider pulls out to stage for
> > takeoff.
>
> You must fly at an airport with amazing power pilots! I get to see
> about 3 or so go arounds each weekend.
>
> Doug

nah i get to see a lot of go arounds from the right seat while my
students are learning to fly the pattern. and we have really long
runways so even when they goof it is usually still safely salvageable.

April 8th 08, 09:50 PM
On Apr 8, 4:35*pm, wrote:
> nah i get to see a lot of go arounds from the right seat while my
> students are learning to fly the pattern. *and we have really long
> runways so even when they goof it is usually still safely salvageable.


That might be the difference, where I fly it's SHORT as in SHORT not
much room for error.
Doug

Tony Verhulst
April 9th 08, 12:03 AM
sisu1a wrote:

>> That works (to a point) in a Cessna. Try that in a Mooney and you'll get
>> a very close look at the numbers on the far end of the runway as you go
>> by them. It depends on the airplane.
>>
>> Tony
>
> Don't they put airbrakes on those Moony things, some type of dragons
> teeth arrangement?


Mooney offers that as a factory option - starting maybe 10 years ago.
STCs are available for older models -
http://www.preciseflight.com/viewpage.php?pID=15 . By far, the majority
of Mooneys in existence do not have the speed brakes.

The speedbrakes, BTW, are electrically actuated and are "all or nothing".

Tony V.

J a c k
April 9th 08, 12:49 AM
wrote:


> I'm sure I'll be presented with a good reason to do a go around.
> Hopefully though it won't be because I didn't fly the pattern
> properly.


It probably won't be your fault, but some day it may be. The mark of a
mature aviator is that he also goes around without reluctance when it IS
his fault, instead of trying to fake it. We all make mistakes.

If you are relatively new to the game I can understand that you're still
building your self-confidence. Then the other side of the cycle is where
you moderate your self-confidence in an effort to stay alive long enough
to get to the point where you are so old that you are on the building-up
side again. It's always something. ;)


Jack

April 9th 08, 06:49 AM
On Apr 8, 6:03 pm, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> sisu1a wrote:
> >> That works (to a point) in a Cessna. Try that in a Mooney and you'll get
> >> a very close look at the numbers on the far end of the runway as you go
> >> by them. It depends on the airplane.
>
> >> Tony
>
> > Don't they put airbrakes on those Moony things, some type of dragons
> > teeth arrangement?
>
> Mooney offers that as a factory option - starting maybe 10 years ago.
> STCs are available for older models -http://www.preciseflight.com/viewpage.php?pID=15. By far, the majority
> of Mooneys in existence do not have the speed brakes.
>
> The speedbrakes, BTW, are electrically actuated and are "all or nothing".
>
> Tony V.

right, they are not used for approach path control. they are darn
handy for being able to make descents without huge power changes which
can be tough on the big engines it takes to go fast.

April 12th 08, 12:55 AM
> If you enter the pattern at
> the correct height and speed, you should have no reason to do a go
> around.

> I wonder out loud if teaching power pilots they have that option
> creates more problems than if they were taught to land the plane the
> first time around like "We" are.

Remember, a glider can touchdown to stop in 250 feet or less.
An airplane is often 1000 feet or more.

Think: What-if a glider is stopped on the runway...
I certainly want the power pilot to go around and miss me!
Or an animal, or another aircraft or a car, or...
The power pilot just botches the cross-wind, or starts
a PIO.

I still assert that (generally) glider pilots who transition to
power are better than power-only pilots. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com http://users.frii.net/jer/
C-206, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 263 Young Eagles!

Mike Gaskins[_2_]
April 15th 08, 03:13 PM
On Apr 7, 3:24 pm, " >
wrote:
> I wonder out loud if teaching power pilots they have that option
> creates more problems than if they were taught to land the plane the
> first time around like "We" are.

You don't want to force a landing when you're not comfortable with
it. As a power pilot (who is looking into but doesn't yet have a
glider rating), most of my go arounds were early in my student pilot
phase. Sometimes after turning final I'd realize that I was just too
high (too low can almost always be patched up - just give it a lil
more power to maintain altitude coming in), and I wasn't yet
comfortable with doing a slip to fix it.

So, when you're 1/3 of the way down the runway and still 300 feet up,
it's just safer to just go around and try the setup again. For me (and
I'd guess most people), they get far less frequent over time.

Particularly troublesome for me as a student pilot was that different
power levels are required for simulated normal, short, and soft field
landings. Given the different power levels they all required that I
turn base at different distances past the numbers. It can take some
time to get used to that.

Mike

No Name
April 25th 08, 01:43 AM
gmcd05 > wrote:
> Does anyone know what the requirements are to add a private pilot
> airplane rating if you already have a private pilot glider? I know
> the training requirements would be reduced for an airplane pilot
> transitioning to glider but I dont know how it works going the other
> way.... Does anyone have info on this?

I'm a bit confused by the answers to the question. There is a substantial
reduction in the minimum as per part 61.109:

It states you must have 40 hours of flight time, including at least 20
hours of instruction and 10 hours solo.

Of the 20 hours of instruction, 9 hours of it must be in a single engine
airplane (assuming you are going for a single engine certificate). The
other 11, could be in a glider. All 10 hours of solo time must be in a
single engine airplane. So, technically, if you had an instructor who
was willing to play ball, you could do it with just 19 hours.

For commercial ratings (61.129):

You must have at least 250 logged hours. Of that:

1) 100 hours must be in powered aircraft (50 of which must be in airplanes)
2) 100 hours must be as PIC
a) 50 of which must be in airplanes
b) 50 of which must be crosscountry (of which 10 must be in airplanes)
3) 20 hours of training which includes:
a) at least 10 hours of instrument training (at least 5 of which must be
in single engine airplanes)
b) at least 10 hours of training with retractable gear, flaps, constant
speed prop, etc (all of which must be in airplanes)
c) one 2 hour VFR day time cross-county in single engine airplane
d) one 2 hour VFR night time cross-country in single engine airplane
e) 3 hour in single engine airplane to prep for exam
4) 10 hours of soloflight in single engine airplane including cross country

So assuming your aeronautical experience is only in gliders (and you have
plenty of it), you will need 100 hours in airplanes as per #1

Requirement 2 says you need 50 hours PIC in airplanes including at least
10 of cross country (this replicates requirement #4). So if half your
flight time is training and half is PIC, then you have requirements 2
and 4 incorporated in #1. #3 requires 20 hours of training, which can
be fit into the 50 hours I allocated based on #2.

So assuming you have adequate glider cross country experience, the
rules say the minimum for you would be 100 hours to commercial, as
opposed to power only which would be 250.

Picking up additional ratings at that point requires very little (in
theory multiengine commercial would be an additional 14 hours of
instruction and 10 hours of solo or simulated PIC)..

That said, I'm not a power pilot, or an instructor, but I think all pilots
know that FAA minimums are just that, minimums. Just because you can
get a private pilot certificate with 19 hours, and a commercial with
an additional 81 doesn't mean you should, or you will. But you asked
if the requirements are reduced, and they are. My guess is, you are best
off finding an instructor who is a glider pilot, they may be more
sympathetic to using glider experience and more understanding of
why you do the things you do when you respond as if the plane is a glider.

Good luck,
dan

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