French requirements for solo flight

[Steve Freeman]

I am planning on participating in one of the Mountain Gliding courses
at CNVV near Saint-Auban in southern France the first week of June. I
have an ASEL power rating with IFR, a glider rating and a third class
medical. Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo
at CNVV. If possible I would like to get everything taken care of
before I leave as I will not have much time once I arrive.

[John Smith]

Steve Freeman wrote:

> Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo

Best would be to just ask them: http://www.cnvv.net/

[Steve Freeman]

On Apr 8, 4:03*pm, John Smith > wrote:
> Steve Freeman wrote:
> > Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo
>
> Best would be to just ask them:http://www.cnvv.net/

I did and they referred me to the local district office at another
airport that I need to call and I thought someone on the list might be
able to give me a head start.

[Mike Lindsay]

In article
s.com>, Steve Freeman > writes
>I am planning on participating in one of the Mountain Gliding courses
>at CNVV near Saint-Auban in southern France the first week of June. I
>have an ASEL power rating with IFR, a glider rating and a third class
>medical. Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo
>at CNVV. If possible I would like to get everything taken care of
>before I leave as I will not have much time once I arrive.


FWIW we went to Chauvigny in 1999 and the requirement was (1) a Visite
Medicale (I would think your Class 3 would be OK, but best to confirm
that) (2) a flight with an instructor at nearby Poitiers. We collected a
certificate at this airfield. (3)The glider documents, Cof A and
insurance certificate. You could get the medical locally for the
equivalent of $20 USA.

But it may be different now, especially if you are going to fly their
gliders.

Again FWIW when I last flew at a French CNVV all I needed was a note
from my physician saying I was OK to fly. No problem, the doc was my
dad. But that was 50 years ago, and no doubt things are more complex
now.
--
Mike Lindsay

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Steve Freeman
> wrote:

>On Apr 8, 4:03*pm, John Smith > wrote:
>> Steve Freeman wrote:
>> > Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo
>>
>> Best would be to just ask them:http://www.cnvv.net/
>
>I did and they referred me to the local district office at another
>airport that I need to call and I thought someone on the list might be
>able to give me a head start.

I guess it depens on the result of a check flight. I had no prior
mountain flying experience and made two flights in double-seaters
there before they told me to fly solo.



Bye
Andreas

[Steve Freeman]

On Apr 8, 7:05*pm, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Steve Freeman
>
> > wrote:
> >On Apr 8, 4:03*pm, John Smith > wrote:
> >> Steve Freeman wrote:
> >> > Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo
>
> >> Best would be to just ask them:http://www.cnvv.net/
>
> >I did and they referred me to the local district office at another
> >airport that I need to call and I thought someone on the list might be
> >able to give me a head start.
>
> I guess it depens on the result of a check flight. I had no prior
> mountain flying experience and made two flights in double-seaters
> there before they told me to fly solo.
>
> Bye
> Andreas

Did your US medical and license transfer? I am more interested in the
legalities rather than the experience needed. The last time I flew
gliders in France was 5 years ago and it was just with an instructor.
He said that if I wanted to come back and fly solo I would have to get
a French medical as the US medicals were not recognized in Europe as
they were not ICAO compliant and a current medical was need to legally
fly a glider in France. Was I given incorrect or out of date
information?

[[email protected]]

I have flown at St. Auban three times. It is virtually the same as
flying in the USA.
Before you go to St. Auban you must get a French temporary license.
The St. Auban website give you the address and all the information you
need. But you should have already known this if you have paid your
deposit to St. Auban. So here is the information you need.

You need to submit a copy of:
1) your US pilot license
2) a copy of your class 3,2, or 1 medical certificate.
(the French accept all US medical certificates)
3) two recent identity photographs. Color or B&W do not matter.
(identity photographs are basically 1.5x1.5 inches
4) a copy of your passport, the page with your photo and date of birth
5) a written request for a "license equivalence"
(I will be flying at St. Auban from xxxx to xxxx)
6) specify the dates of your stay in France.

Mail it all to:

District Aeronautique de Provence
Service des Licenses
Aeroport No. 1
13727 MARIGNANE

Within a month you will receive your temporary French license in the
mail.

They show up at the registration building at St. Auban about 0900
hours with your logbook and credit card.
Have fun.

Guy Acheson "DDS"

[Udo]

I had a similar experience at St. Auban
One day of sight seeing and one day of mountain workout
and three days of solo.
Six month before my planed arrival I requested there package for
visiting pilots. Even though I filled out and send everything that
they requested for solo flight. The paper work was not done on my
arrival. After telling them that I was not interested in flying with
them at all, unless I get my solo status, they were able to get it
within 24 hours.
I had the impression that they were not interested in pilots doing
solo.
The landscape is spectacular and flying is a challenging
I spend Euros 980.00 flying for the week, plus Euros 420.00 for a
cabin for one week, clean but very basic, food not included. Breakfast
on site is none existing unless you call a bowl of coffee and a dry
muffin breakfast. I ended up making my own. You must also look after
your own lunch. In the evening supper was available at a reasonable
rate.

Udo


On Apr 8, 8:05*pm, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Steve Freeman
>
> > wrote:
> >On Apr 8, 4:03*pm, John Smith > wrote:
> >> Steve Freeman wrote:
> >> > Can anyone advise me what I will need to be able to fly solo
>
> >> Best would be to just ask them:http://www.cnvv.net/
>
> >I did and they referred me to the local district office at another
> >airport that I need to call and I thought someone on the list might be
> >able to give me a head start.
>
> I guess it depens on the result of a check flight. I had no prior
> mountain flying experience and made two flights in double-seaters
> there before they told me to fly solo.
>
> Bye
> Andreas

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), Udo > wrote:

>I had a similar experience at St. Auban
>One day of sight seeing and one day of mountain workout
>and three days of solo.
>Six month before my planed arrival I requested there package for
>visiting pilots. Even though I filled out and send everything that
>they requested for solo flight. The paper work was not done on my
>arrival. After telling them that I was not interested in flying with
>them at all, unless I get my solo status, they were able to get it
>within 24 hours.
>I had the impression that they were not interested in pilots doing
>solo.
>The landscape is spectacular and flying is a challenging
>I spend Euros 980.00 flying for the week, plus Euros 420.00 for a
>cabin for one week, clean but very basic, food not included. Breakfast
>on site is none existing unless you call a bowl of coffee and a dry
>muffin breakfast. I ended up making my own. You must also look after
>your own lunch. In the evening supper was available at a reasonable
>rate.


I think things have changed a lot at St. Auban over the years - I
heard a lot of bad things lately. I was there in 1995 I think (with a
German instructor training course), and we got a very thorough
instruction to mountain flying. I was one of the few who brought their
own glider and I was pretty surprised that I got the "go" for solo
flight after only two flights.

Things were much better then... the breakfast fas good, and "a midi"
we went to the Air Force academy canteen (at that time there was the
civil gliding centre and the Air Force academy on the other side of
the airfield) where we got a pretty god and real cheap lunch.

I don't recall the prices anymore, but they were pretty tame.


Concerning safety: The area there is extremely dangerous to fly. Far
above-avergae accident rate in the French Alps, most of them fatal.





Bye
Andreas

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:53:51 +0100, Mike Lindsay
> wrote:

>FWIW we went to Chauvigny in 1999 and the requirement was (1) a Visite
>Medicale (I would think your Class 3 would be OK, but best to confirm
>that) (2) a flight with an instructor at nearby Poitiers. We collected a
>certificate at this airfield. (3)The glider documents, Cof A and
>insurance certificate. You could get the medical locally for the
>equivalent of $20 USA.

Ah, Chavigny... I spent two weeks of the extremely hot 2003 summer
there... 43 degrees celtigrade, and not a single tree in sight... but
9.000 ft cloud base... and many, many student pilots to keep me
busy...


>But it may be different now, especially if you are going to fly their
>gliders.

The problem is the introduction of the EASA in 2007 that overruled
many countries' regulations.



Bye
Andreas

[Steve Freeman]

I got up at 3:30 am so I could call and was told that the French
government has cracked down and that I need to send not a copy of my
pilots license but a "certified" copy which they indicated had to be
signed by a government official. I could not get a better description
of exactly what they wanted so does anyone know what they mean. I
wonder if a notarized copy would suffice?

Also, since I fly out of Houston which is flat as a pancake and
therefore hotter means better soaring, can anyone explain why they are
booked solid in April? What type of conditions should I expect the
first week of June?

[Michel Talon]

Steve Freeman > wrote:
> I got up at 3:30 am so I could call and was told that the French
> government has cracked down and that I need to send not a copy of my
> pilots license but a "certified" copy which they indicated had to be
> signed by a government official. I could not get a better description
> of exactly what they wanted so does anyone know what they mean. I
> wonder if a notarized copy would suffice?

I suppose this means a copy certified by any french authority, for
example the french consulate somewhere. Here in France you get a
certified copy by going to any town hall and it is of course free.
This means they make a photocopy of the document at their office, they put
the seal of the town hall and they sign it, nothing more.
Presumably a copy certified by any american authority would be as good,
but as always in such cases it is less clear. This is to try to avoid
fraud on counterfeited photocopies for official documents.


>
> Also, since I fly out of Houston which is flat as a pancake and
> therefore hotter means better soaring, can anyone explain why they are
> booked solid in April? What type of conditions should I expect the
> first week of June?

In principle very good conditions. June and July are the best months for
soaring here. Too late and the crops are high which causes problems
for doing cross country. When crops are harvested it is also good but
at the end of August conditions begin to decline markedly. Depending on
the years, April and May can be good. At least these are the usual
conditions in Paris region. In the South people use ridge flying and
wave to fly in winter.



--

Michel TALON

[Markus Graeber]

On Apr 10, 7:20 am, Steve Freeman > wrote:
> I got up at 3:30 am so I could call and was told that the French
> government has cracked down and that I need to send not a copy of my
> pilots license but a "certified" copy which they indicated had to be
> signed by a government official. I could not get a better description
> of exactly what they wanted so does anyone know what they mean. I
> wonder if a notarized copy would suffice?

The best thing to do is to get a notarized copy of you license to take
to your state's state department (I assume you are in the US) and have
them certify this copy with a so called Apostille:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille

This is recognized around the world as a result of an international
Hague convention and standard procedure for international legal and
public documents such as birth certificates etc. I have done this in
New Mexico for some paperwork and it was a simple process. Just had to
make some photo copies, got them notarized by a licensed New Mexico
Notary and then went to the state capitol to have them do the
Apostille on the notarized copies for a small fee in a morning.

Check the website of your state's state department, they normally have
information on their procedure etc. Hope this helps,

Markus Graeber

[Udo]

..


can anyone explain why they are
> booked solid in April? What type of conditions should I expect the
> first week of June?

April to June is the best time
Just like most pilots from northern countries, they like an early
start.
When I was there in, April 21/07, The team from Denmark and others
were getting ready for the season and the EU championship.

There are 2 bottle necks, one, there are two groups, about 10 pilots
each that take a course of mountain flying and most if not all book
rooms. the second bottle neck is, pilots that rent rooms or bungalows
but bring there own gliders. Some book into hotels locally, which I
would do if I were to do it again, much more civilized.

If you want a course for Mountain flying in the period from April to
June book early, about six month ahead of time.

I do not think you will have any problem dropping by and getting a
couple of sight seeing flights on short notice.
Udo

[Markus Graeber]

Since you mentioned your are flying out of Houston I am guessing you
live in Texas. The information you are looking for can be found here:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/authinfo.shtml

Give them a call to get the details on what is needed to get an
Apostille for a FAA pilot license, assuming a notarized copy is all
they need you could use their in person service an get the Apostille
done on the spot for $10.

Markus Graeber

[[email protected]]

This is the most interesting process, watching a simple question turn
in to the most complicated process. Notary, Apostille, whatever! I
have flown at St Auban each year for the last three years. Just spent
one week flying acro in February, 2008. I have never had a problem
obtaining the French equivalence license with the process I outlined
in the previous post. I have always received my French license within
6 weeks of mailing off all of the stated information.

I differ with Udo on the accommodations on the field. To me they are
equal to motel 6 or Super 8 motels in the USA. A basic room with a
shower and toilet. A French breakfast, "petit dejeuner", is the same
all over France. A bowl of coffee, a roll or croissant with butter
and jelly, and some cheese. This IS FRANCE for goodness sakes, not
Germany. The central kitchen serves an abundant and adequate full hot
lunch. No dinner is served on the field. There is a communal kitchen
in the residence with large refrigerators and cooktops if you want to
do your own thing. Typically there is a communal dinner with BBQ on
Thursday evening that all pilots are invited to attend. The
surrounding communities have many restaurants of every level of
quality and cost. There are many hotels, bed and breakfasts, and
rental units available throughout the area. In February, my wife and
I stayed in a bed and breakfast in the foothills overlooking the St.
Auban valley for a very modest cost and it was wonderful. I have
always made my reservations at least four months in advance and have
never had a problem getting a space to fly or a room.

The cross-country situation is a very typical French process, highly
standardized. You register at 0900 on Monday morning. There is a
briefing at 1030 in English or French on the rules, flight patterns,
radio use, surrounding terrain, and the weather. Then there is
LUNCH. LUNCH is a serious affair in France. After lunch you go to
the hangers and prepare your glider. You move the glider to the
launch area and at 1230 the towplanes arrive. If this is your first
time you will fly dual for at least the first two days. When the
instructors feel you are competent and safe they will put you in a
single seater. I have been solo on the second day every time I have
been there.

I agree that it is a very challenging place to fly. Complicated
geography. Very crowded airspace. A typical day will involve flying
in ridge lift, thermals, and some wave. All of the St. Auban gliders
have Flarm. When flying solo you are coupled with and instructor who
you communicate with every 30 minutes or so over the radio. Where are
you? What is your altitude? What are your intentions? The
instructor will tell you to go ahead, or wait for him to meet you, or
suggest a different plan. I have found it to be a very good
management style for new pilots to learn the area and have fun at the
same time.

I am pretty sure all of the complicated instructions for getting your
license and medical cleared to fly in France is because you are asking
the wrong people. Just follow my instructions, the same instructions
that St. Auban has provided me every time I apply for a course, and
you will have no problems.

Some additional information regarding insurance. Both medical and
liability insurance are sold at the St. Auban registration desk on the
morning you sign up. France is a no fault nation so you obtain
liability insurance by joining the French national soaring
association. Medical insurance is similar.

I usually fly at Minden, NV. I find St Auban to be very similar to
Minden. There is cross country flying year round. In February, when
I was in an acro course all week, the full fleet of cross country
gliders was out every day. There was good flying for three of those
five days. When I have flown in June and July it is OUTSTANDING cross
country flying.

Guy Acheson "DDS"

[Udo]

Guy
Excellent write up.
As I pointed out in my first comment you can get your French licence
on the spot as well (24 hours) providing you have all the documents.
As to the breakfast I have acquired my taste here in Canada and the US
in the last 42 years. In Germany the average hotel puts on a very nice
breakfast spread. Naturally I am very sensitive to the cultural
difference and I am sure the French are happy with there breakfast
fair.
Udo


On Apr 11, 1:30*am, wrote:
> This is the most interesting process, watching a simple question turn
> in to the most complicated process. *Notary, Apostille, whatever! *I
> have flown at St Auban each year for the last three years. *Just spent
> one week flying acro in February, 2008. *I have never had a problem
> obtaining the French equivalence license with the process I outlined
> in the previous post. *I have always received my French license within
> 6 weeks of mailing off all of the stated information.
>
> I differ with Udo on the accommodations on the field. *To me they are
> equal to motel 6 or Super 8 motels in the USA. *A basic room with a
> shower and toilet. *A French breakfast, "petit dejeuner", is the same
> all over France. *A bowl of coffee, a roll or croissant with butter
> and jelly, and some cheese. *This IS FRANCE for goodness sakes, not
> Germany. *The central kitchen serves an abundant and adequate full hot
> lunch. *No dinner is served on the field. *There is a communal kitchen
> in the residence with large refrigerators and cooktops if you want to
> do your own thing. *Typically there is a communal dinner with BBQ on
> Thursday evening that all pilots are invited to attend. *The
> surrounding communities have many restaurants of every level of
> quality and cost. *There are many hotels, bed and breakfasts, and
> rental units available throughout the area. *In February, my wife and
> I stayed in a bed and breakfast in the foothills overlooking the St.
> Auban valley for a very modest cost and it was wonderful. *I have
> always made my reservations at least four months in advance and have
> never had a problem getting a space to fly or a room.
>
> The cross-country situation is a very typical French process, highly
> standardized. *You register at 0900 on Monday morning. *There is a
> briefing at 1030 in English or French on the rules, flight patterns,
> radio use, surrounding terrain, and the weather. *Then there is
> LUNCH. *LUNCH is a serious affair in France. *After lunch you go to
> the hangers and prepare your glider. *You move the glider to the
> launch area and at 1230 the towplanes arrive. *If this is your first
> time you will fly dual for at least the first two days. *When the
> instructors feel you are competent and safe they will put you in a
> single seater. *I have been solo on the second day every time I have
> been there.
>
> I agree that it is a very challenging place to fly. *Complicated
> geography. *Very crowded airspace. *A typical day will involve flying
> in ridge lift, thermals, and some wave. *All of the St. Auban gliders
> have Flarm. *When flying solo you are coupled with and instructor who
> you communicate with every 30 minutes or so over the radio. *Where are
> you? *What is your altitude? *What are your intentions? *The
> instructor will tell you to go ahead, or wait for him to meet you, or
> suggest a different plan. *I have found it to be a very good
> management style for new pilots to learn the area and have fun at the
> same time.
>
> I am pretty sure all of the complicated instructions for getting your
> license and medical cleared to fly in France is because you are asking
> the wrong people. *Just follow my instructions, the same instructions
> that St. Auban has provided me every time I apply for a course, and
> you will have no problems.
>
> Some additional information regarding insurance. *Both medical and
> liability insurance are sold at the St. Auban registration desk on the
> morning you sign up. *France is a no fault nation so you obtain
> liability insurance by joining the French national soaring
> association. *Medical insurance is similar.
>
> I usually fly at Minden, NV. *I find St Auban to be very similar to
> Minden. *There is cross country flying year round. *In February, when
> I was in an acro course all week, the full fleet of cross country
> gliders was out every day. *There was good flying for three of those
> five days. *When I have flown in June and July it is OUTSTANDING cross
> country flying.
>
> Guy Acheson "DDS"