Why you should check your gas....

[gliderguynj]

To add to the list of jokes about my home state of NJ,.....
The news reported that over 30 cars were stranded on the side of the
road after they filled up at a Lukoil station and received "Bad
Gas".

Now some would think that turning your airplane into a glider in
midair might be better than being stranded in NJ but.....

This raised a few questions for me....Are there any extra safeguards
regarding the delivery and or testing of 100LL before you put the
nozzled in your tank? By draining the gas and looking in the GAT jar
assuming it looks correct, could you still be in risk of having bad
gas? How long would it take for that bad gas to reach the engine?

Doug

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

gliderguynj wrote:
>
> This raised a few questions for me....Are there any extra safeguards
> regarding the delivery and or testing of 100LL before you put the
> nozzled in your tank? By draining the gas and looking in the GAT jar
> assuming it looks correct, could you still be in risk of having bad
> gas? How long would it take for that bad gas to reach the engine?
>

Define "bad gas".

I would imagine that the "bad gas" from the auto service station, that
actually caused cars to stop running, was contaminated with water,
diesel fuel, or crap (rust, dirt, or other debris). All should be
apparent in a GATTS jar if viewed, sniffed, and touched.

If gasoline were mixed with with large amounts of some sort of bad
additive or if a low octane fuel were accidentally dyed as 100LL, I
think we'd have a problem that we wouldn't know about before startup.

On a typical piston aircraft, I'd think the problem should make itself
evident during a proper runup, unless there is a very short taxi. I
drain my gascolator for two full jars, which should clear the entire
line to the selected tank.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:08:27 -0700 (PDT), gliderguynj
> wrote in
>:

>The news reported that over 30 cars were stranded on the side of the
>road after they filled up at a Lukoil station and received "Bad
>Gas".




http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/04/bad_batch_of_gas_strands_gsp_m.html
...
Lukoil has said it is responsible for the problem and will pay for
affected motorists' repairs, according to Orlando, who advised
them to call the company's toll-free helpline at (877) 858-9962.

"The most important thing for me is they've acknowledged it, and
they're going to do the right thing for people," Orlando said.

George Wilkins, spokesman for Lukoil Americas Corp., could not
immediately be reached for comment. ...

"Apparently it was contaminated gas, but we don't know how or
why," Tamayo said. By 8 p.m., all of the vehicles had been towed
from the highway, the sergeant said.

Joe Amodeo, a service adviser for Westchester BMW in New York,
said the problem last night could have been that the motorists
filled up with gasoline contaminated by water.

"If we're talking about water, the car's just not going to run,"
Amodeo said, explaining water injected into the combustion
chambers will cause the spark plugs to misfire.

He said the water would pass through the engine without causing
damage, but the motorists would have to have it removed from their
fuel tanks.

"The tank has to be dropped and the fuel drained," he said.
"Whatever service station we're talking about is in for a lot of
money."

Lukoil, Russia's largest oil company, entered the U.S. gasoline
market in 2000 when it acquired Getty Petroleum Marketing. Since
2005, it also has taken over some 800 Mobil stations, including
all the former Mobil stations in service areas along the Parkway,
after the U.S. Federal Trade Commission ordered Mobil to sell its
stations between Virginia and New Jersey in the oil company's
merger with Exxon.

[gliderguynj]

On Apr 18, 9:46*am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> Define "bad gas".

Gas that makes your engine stop...

Doug

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

gliderguynj wrote:
> On Apr 18, 9:46 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>> Define "bad gas".
>
> Gas that makes your engine stop...

Fuel mixed with water isn't "bad gas". We drain the water and the fuel
left behind is usable.

[dgs[_4_]]

gliderguynj wrote:

> To add to the list of jokes about my home state of NJ,.....
> The news reported that over 30 cars were stranded on the side of the
> road after they filled up at a Lukoil station and received "Bad
> Gas".

Lukoil??? Russian gas then? Subject to Russian "quality" controls?

Oh boy.
--
dgs

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

B A R R Y wrote:
> gliderguynj wrote:
>> On Apr 18, 9:46 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>>> Define "bad gas".
>>
>> Gas that makes your engine stop...
>
> Fuel mixed with water isn't "bad gas". We drain the water and the fuel
> left behind is usable.
>
>

Unless it is Ethanol laced.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

dgs wrote:
> gliderguynj wrote:
>
>> To add to the list of jokes about my home state of NJ,.....
>> The news reported that over 30 cars were stranded on the side of the
>> road after they filled up at a Lukoil station and received "Bad
>> Gas".
>
> Lukoil??? Russian gas then? Subject to Russian "quality" controls?
>
> Oh boy.

I doubt very seriously that they are bringing gasoline in from Russia.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
>> gliderguynj wrote:
>>> On Apr 18, 9:46 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>>>> Define "bad gas".
>>>
>>> Gas that makes your engine stop...
>>
>> Fuel mixed with water isn't "bad gas". We drain the water and the
>> fuel left behind is usable.
>>
>>
>
> Unless it is Ethanol laced.


That actually depends on how much water is in the fuel. There's a
limit, of course, but the engine will still run with some water
suspended in the fuel.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

B A R R Y wrote:
> Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>> B A R R Y wrote:
>>> gliderguynj wrote:
>>>> On Apr 18, 9:46 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>>>>> Define "bad gas".
>>>>
>>>> Gas that makes your engine stop...
>>>
>>> Fuel mixed with water isn't "bad gas". We drain the water and the
>>> fuel left behind is usable.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Unless it is Ethanol laced.
>
>
> That actually depends on how much water is in the fuel. There's a
> limit, of course, but the engine will still run with some water
> suspended in the fuel.

And how much Ethanol.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>

> And how much Ethanol.

Agreed.

I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder... Would too much
ethanol would make the gas smell or feel funny during the sampling?

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
t...
<...>
> Define "bad gas".
<...>

What happens when you live on pickled eggs and beer for more than a couple
days.



--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:17:53 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk At Wow Way D0t C0m> wrote:

>What happens when you live on pickled eggs and beer for more than a couple
>days.


Yes siree!

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

B A R R Y wrote:
>
>I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder... Would too much
>ethanol would make the gas smell or feel funny during the sampling?

Nope. Unlike the old (legal for airplanes) oxygenate, MTBE, the presence
of ethanol is not obvious by odor or appearance. You just have to mix the
fuel with some water and shake it up in order to test it (at least in
quantites used for oxygenated car gas). E-85, on the other hand, seems to
be detectable by smell. Although pure ethanol has no odor, E-85 has a
noticably weaker gasoline component to its odor.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200804/1

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:26:55 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
<u32749@uwe> wrote:

>B A R R Y wrote:
>>
>>I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder... Would too much
>>ethanol would make the gas smell or feel funny during the sampling?
>
> Nope. Unlike the old (legal for airplanes) oxygenate, MTBE, the presence
>of ethanol is not obvious by odor or appearance. You just have to mix the
>fuel with some water and shake it up in order to test it (at least in
>quantites used for oxygenated car gas). E-85, on the other hand, seems to
>be detectable by smell. Although pure ethanol has no odor, E-85 has a
>noticably weaker gasoline component to its odor.

Thanks!

[clint]

Bad gas all senoirs ave that lol 8-o
gliderguynj wrote on 4/18/2008 :
> To add to the list of jokes about my home state of NJ,.....
> The news reported that over 30 cars were stranded on the side of the
> road after they filled up at a Lukoil station and received "Bad
> Gas".

> Now some would think that turning your airplane into a glider in
> midair might be better than being stranded in NJ but.....

> This raised a few questions for me....Are there any extra safeguards
> regarding the delivery and or testing of 100LL before you put the
> nozzled in your tank? By draining the gas and looking in the GAT jar
> assuming it looks correct, could you still be in risk of having bad
> gas? How long would it take for that bad gas to reach the engine?

> Doug

[clint]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe laid this down on his screen :
> What happens when you live on pickled eggs and beer for more than a couple
> days.

farts? :'(

[clint]

Larry Dighera submitted this idea :
> Lukoil, Russia's largest oil company, entered the U.S. gasoline
> market in 2000 when it acquired Getty Petroleum Marketing.

thats all we need is ruskies owning our gas :-?

[clint]

Gig 601Xl Builder explained :
> I doubt very seriously that they are bringing gasoline in from Russia.

you never has a blzhenski then :-Z