Flying camels

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

Hi , I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
East from Australia

I was wondering if it may be possible to set up a weekly flight with
several hundred live camels , av 500 kg each, standing 3 meters
tall , , from outback Australia , into Egypt , Pakistan . or such
countries

Im not yet concerned with the legal requirements , but was wondering
if large second hand planes , could be practicle cost wise

At what level it may become profitable , assuming camels weigh 500
kg , and have a relatively low value , could it be profitable if
larger numbers and cheaper planes were taken into account , on a
regular basic

I know horses can be fly around the globe , so welfare of the Animals
should be no problem

Hundreds of camels every week are potentially available in central
Australia , with airstrips , and a market does exist in several
countries , for quality young camels , Australian camels are
considered disease free by most countries , and in particular for use
in emergency where roads have been cut by natural disasters I see a
potential to land hundreds of live camels on short notice as a
possible opportunity as well , with considerable benefit to all
concerned

The costing of a permanent weekly flight is beyond my expertise , and
yes I will need to do my own checking in greater detail , but do you
have any ideas ???

Can you " guesstimate" what it may cost , so I can work out if the
market is able to make it pay ,

I assume we would be using non commercial air strips into semi rural
air strips once it was set up so costs may be saved on landing charges

Camels would take time to muster but assume we could deliver as many
as 500 per week for the purpose of costing air transport , loading
and unloading in an hour

kanga
=====

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"kangarooistan /peramangk" > wrote in news:b882277d-
:

> Hi , I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> East from Australia

Well, a 130 hp Clerget drinks about 7 GPH but it will happily run on mogas,
so that's cheap enough. The Castor oil it uses will cost you a bit, of
course. Gonna be a long trip at 100 knots, though.
Bertie

[Frank Olson]

kangarooistan /peramangk wrote:
> Hi , I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> East from Australia


It would be cheaper to fit them all with coconut necklaces and float
them across the Indian Ocean. Mount a couple of solar panels on the
humps wired to a small electric motor powering a hand mixer ($1.99 at
Walmart) and they become "self propelled". Trick is to keep them
pointed in the right direction. Launch five hundred a week and the
first "batch" should get there by Easter next year. From then, expect
regular "landings". Set up a small stand on the beach and and sell 'em
"hot" from the water (lemonade on the side of course). ;-)

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:26:00 -0700 (PDT), "kangarooistan /peramangk"
> wrote in
>:

>I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
>East from Australia

Cut a deal with Exxon, and ship your camels to the mid-east on the
decks of empty oil tankers returning there. :-)

[WingFlaps]

On Apr 25, 8:26*pm, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
wrote:
> Hi *, I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> East *from Australia
>

Ask FedEx for a quote. You don't need 2nd day air as camels can last a
long time without food or water.

Cheers

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

On Apr 25, 7:59 pm, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:26:00 -0700 (PDT), "kangarooistan /peramangk"
> > wrote in
> >:
>
> >I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> >East from Australia
>
..
> Cut a deal with Exxon, and ship your camels to the mid-east on the
> decks of empty oil tankers returning there. :-)

Great idea , I thought about that

BUT , it then leaves me waiting on their time tables , sea transport
would be cheaper , but I seek to put 100 to 200 camels any where on
earth in 24 / 48 hours , like in a fire famine flood or earth quake
disaster , as well as serve a regular live meat market as bread and
butter trade

Sea transport is held tightly by existing operators and I want to land
the camels inland where needed and save transport and bribery at
ports

It can take months to go by sea and that costs money too , big money ,
possibly more that air transport done " inhouse " or by a small
operator

the live trade is pretty much a closed shop between existing
operators , some of whom class camels as , " unclean "

kanga
=====

[WingFlaps]

On Apr 26, 1:16*am, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
wrote:

>
> the live trade is pretty much a closed shop between *existing
> operators , some of whom class camels as , " unclean "
>
>

Yep, smokin camels is a filthy habit.

Cheers

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

On Apr 25, 8:14 pm, WingFlaps > wrote:
> On Apr 25, 8:26 pm, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi , I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> > East from Australia
>
..
> Ask FedEx for a quote. You don't need 2nd day air as camels can last a
> long time without food or water.
>
> Cheers



Camels could go a day without food and water , but after that you
would run into problems with animal rights / welfare

I assume we could arrange delivery within 24 hours or feed and rest
them on route if needed

Camels can survive weeks without fod and water , but its not a
desirable outcome to plan for any longer than a day

kanga
=====

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

On Apr 25, 6:46 pm, Frank Olson
> wrote:
> kangarooistan /peramangk wrote:
> > Hi , I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> > East from Australia
>
..
> It would be cheaper to fit them all with coconut necklaces and float
> them across the Indian Ocean. Mount a couple of solar panels on the
> humps wired to a small electric motor powering a hand mixer ($1.99 at
> Walmart) and they become "self propelled". Trick is to keep them
> pointed in the right direction. Launch five hundred a week and the
> first "batch" should get there by Easter next year. From then, expect
> regular "landings". Set up a small stand on the beach and and sell 'em
> "hot" from the water (lemonade on the side of course). ;-)



Not as silly as it sounds , I used a solar powered back pack and model
plane remote controls to control camels from many km away with no
problems at all , off the shelf at any hobby store, to direct a camel
in a 100 sq mile paddock, im working on a video option camera

Im working on a solar powered camel and remote control to go from
Darwin to Adelaide without a human in sight

I bet you could launch a solar powered floating camel and guild it to
Saudi Arabia from Australia , like an all terrain vehicle , land mud
sea , camels can swim real well , but would need a rest and
flotation devises

but clearly the costs are prohibitive

kanga
=====

[WingFlaps]

On Apr 26, 1:21*am, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
wrote:
> On Apr 25, 8:14 pm, WingFlaps > wrote:
>
> > On Apr 25, 8:26 pm, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > Hi *, I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> > > East *from Australia
>
> .
> > Ask FedEx for a quote. You don't need 2nd day air as camels can last a
> > long time without food or water.
>
> > Cheers
>
> Camels could go a day without food and water , but after that you
> would run into problems with animal rights */ welfare
>

I though you were planning on killing them? How do they feel about
that?

Cheers

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

On Apr 25, 10:45 pm, WingFlaps > wrote:
> On Apr 26, 1:21 am, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 8:14 pm, WingFlaps > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 25, 8:26 pm, "kangarooistan /peramangk" >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Hi , I was wondering about the costs of flying camels into the Middle
> > > > East from Australia
>
> > .
> > > Ask FedEx for a quote. You don't need 2nd day air as camels can last a
> > > long time without food or water.
>
> > > Cheers
>
> > Camels could go a day without food and water , but after that you
> > would run into problems with animal rights / welfare
>
> I though you were planning on killing them? How do they feel about
> that?
>
> Cheers

Most of the camels will be used as food , but many will be used as
breeders or transport or milk , but all will be eaten in the end

My main aim is to be able to land hundreds of camels into disaster
zones on 24 hours notice , where demand is greatest , donors are
prepared to fund emergency delivery

BUT we will need to maintain the operation funding using a regular
live / fresh meat based trade , and be able to deliver where needed on
short notice with festival demand or drought the demand moves a great
deal , prices of live camels can double or more over night in many
cases , ability to deliver almost anywhere on short notice is
important

kanga
=====

[clint]

they poop everywhere no way!
kangarooistan /peramangk brought next idea :
> I was wondering if it may be possible to set up a weekly flight with
> several hundred live camels , av 500 kg each, standing 3 meters
> tall , , from outback Australia , into Egypt , Pakistan . or such
> countries

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

On Apr 26, 12:07 pm, clint > wrote:
> they poop everywhere no way!
> kangarooistan /peramangk brought next idea :
>
> > I was wondering if it may be possible to set up a weekly flight with
> > several hundred live camels , av 500 kg each, standing 3 meters
> > tall , , from outback Australia , into Egypt , Pakistan . or such
> > countries

OK , lets try a bit more specific question

If you wanted to fly regular loads of live camels to the middle east

Which type of air plane would you look at and where wold you start
looking and how much would you expect to pay for a good quality LARGE
work horse type plane with no frills , but reliable ,

Q 2

What is the range of weight a big plane can carry over a long distance
of several thousand km , possibly need to be able to make Egypt with
only one stop , but perhaps 2 or 3 stops if need be

Yes I know it will be a lot of money , but thats what i seek to find
out , to see at what stage it may be possible , or not

Assume 100 camels weigh 50 tons , and several thousand km flying range
minimum

possibly double would be better if possible

do you know where I might look online to buy or check prices of such a
plane ??

I assume it would need to pass tests to meet Australian aviation rules
and any licences , but Im a long way from that at this stage , still
checking the viability of the concept

many thanks

kanga
=====

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"kangarooistan /peramangk" > wrote in news:8840b0b2-
:

> On Apr 26, 12:07 pm, clint > wrote:
>> they poop everywhere no way!
>> kangarooistan /peramangk brought next idea :
>>
>> > I was wondering if it may be possible to set up a weekly flight with
>> > several hundred live camels , av 500 kg each, standing 3 meters
>> > tall , , from outback Australia , into Egypt , Pakistan . or such
>> > countries
>
> OK , lets try a bit more specific question
>
> If you wanted to fly regular loads of live camels to the middle east
>
> Which type of air plane would you look at and where wold you start
> looking and how much would you expect to pay for a good quality LARGE
> work horse type plane with no frills , but reliable ,


There are lots of freighter companies set up to fly racehorses and other
livestock around. They're typically old DC8s but there are a few 747s set
up for it. The middle east is a fertile ground for this activity as the
arabs are into racehorses big time so it should be pretty easy to find a
carier who would be able to accomodate you. Best place to ask is a
thoroughbred horse breeder.

Bert

[B A R R Y]

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:26:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:
>
>
>There are lots of freighter companies set up to fly racehorses and other
>livestock around. They're typically old DC8s but there are a few 747s set
>up for it.

I've watched Saratoga Springs racehorses being offloaded from a Kitty
Hawk 727 at Albany.

Perhaps the OP could contact Kitty Hawk for details.

When flying Camels, don't let the toes become a distraction.

[kangarooistan /peramangk]

On Apr 26, 8:26 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> "kangarooistan /peramangk" > wrote in news:8840b0b2-
> :
>
>
>
> > On Apr 26, 12:07 pm, clint > wrote:
> >> they poop everywhere no way!
> >> kangarooistan /peramangk brought next idea :
>
> >> > I was wondering if it may be possible to set up a weekly flight with
> >> > several hundred live camels , av 500 kg each, standing 3 meters
> >> > tall , , from outback Australia , into Egypt , Pakistan . or such
> >> > countries
>
> > OK , lets try a bit more specific question
>
> > If you wanted to fly regular loads of live camels to the middle east
>
> > Which type of air plane would you look at and where wold you start
> > looking and how much would you expect to pay for a good quality LARGE
> > work horse type plane with no frills , but reliable ,
>
> There are lots of freighter companies set up to fly racehorses and other
> livestock around. They're typically old DC8s but there are a few 747s set
> up for it. The middle east is a fertile ground for this activity as the
> arabs are into racehorses big time so it should be pretty easy to find a
> carier who would be able to accomodate you. Best place to ask is a
> thoroughbred horse breeder.
>
> Bert

Hi Bert

Thanks for the start , I googled dc8 horse transport and found pretty
much what I was after

Im not into planes and was a bit lost where to start

I think I can google it form here

MANY thanks mate

kanga
=====

lots of quality info , I will do a bit of further reading
-----------------------------------------------------------

The international horse breeding industry began to be enhanced by
access to air transport services when regular horse carrying flights
between Ireland, England and France were initiated in the early
1950’s. Bristol Freighter aircraft were used for this service. Their
front loading facility made it easier to load than other contemporary
aircraft, but they were felt to be noisy and slow by the personnel
that travelled with the horses. The volume of traffic was sufficient
to justify staff dedicated to providing horse care from departure to
destination, familiar with the environments and requirements at
airports and at altitude. They became known as “Flying Grooms”. Their
numbers have grown from a handful, to the stage at which there are
international efforts to recognise their chosen profession by
accreditation and certification.

The “jet age” arrived with the first carriage of horses in a Boeing
707 in the early 1960’S. Stalls were built around the horses after
they had walked up a ramp into the aircraft. These were so called
“open stall systems”, which although they surrounded the horses, they
did not fully enclose them. In 1968, the first widely noted tragedy
occurred, when an Elizabethan aircraft with three crew, five grooms
and eight horses on board, crashed on landing at London’s Heathrow
airport. All of the crew, all of the horses and three of the grooms,
died. The accident was attributed to metal fatigue.

Fast and efficient, regular air services from Europe to the USA, Japan
and Australia became commonplace in the 1970’s, using the then “state-
of-the-art” Boeing 707 and DC8 aircraft. Palletised freight systems in
which three-horse stalls with a groom’s compartment, were loaded with
horses on the ground and then lifted onto the aircraft led to faster
loading and unloading. Thirty horses could now be loaded onto an
aircraft in an hour. Later, 112 horses could be carried in a Boeing
747 when these and other, so called “wide bodied” jets became
available for horse charter flights in the 1980’s. Improved access to
scheduled services also took place and three horses and a groom could
from then onwards, travel almost anywhere in the world in fully or
partially enclosed “air stables’ or “jet stalls”.

A modified “insect-proof” stall was used to transport Vintage Crop
from Ireland to Australia , prior to his victory in the Melbourne Cup.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"kangarooistan /peramangk" > wrote in
:

> On Apr 26, 8:26 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> "kangarooistan /peramangk" > wrote in
>> news:8840b0b2-
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 26, 12:07 pm, clint > wrote:
>> >> they poop everywhere no way!
>> >> kangarooistan /peramangk brought next idea :
>>
>> >> > I was wondering if it may be possible to set up a weekly flight
>> >> > with
>
>> >> > several hundred live camels , av 500 kg each, standing 3 meters
>> >> > tall , , from outback Australia , into Egypt , Pakistan . or
>> >> > such countries
>>
>> > OK , lets try a bit more specific question
>>
>> > If you wanted to fly regular loads of live camels to the middle
>> > east
>>
>> > Which type of air plane would you look at and where wold you start
>> > looking and how much would you expect to pay for a good quality
>> > LARGE work horse type plane with no frills , but reliable ,
>>
>> There are lots of freighter companies set up to fly racehorses and
>> other livestock around. They're typically old DC8s but there are a
>> few 747s set up for it. The middle east is a fertile ground for this
>> activity as the arabs are into racehorses big time so it should be
>> pretty easy to find a carier who would be able to accomodate you.
>> Best place to ask is a thoroughbred horse breeder.
>>
>> Bert
>
> Hi Bert
>
> Thanks for the start , I googled dc8 horse transport and found pretty
> much what I was after
>
> Im not into planes and was a bit lost where to start
>
> I think I can google it form here
>
> MANY thanks mate
>

No worries!

Bertie