Avmap EKP-IV Linux Project!!!

[NW_Pilot]

Been chatting with a few old time geek friends online it looks like we are
going to start an embedded Linux project for this hardware while keeping it
capable of running current nav data/maps my unit just booted an 8 gig CF
card (Avmap SW) a friend is going to try a 32 gig card in the next week or
so on his. Looks like this hardware will make a great open source platform.

Unit Booted SanDisk ConnectPlus With Wifi 2 bad they are not larger in
capacity... Would be Great Wifi Addition.
Unit Booted 8 gig CF Card
Unit Booted 2 Gig SD With CF Type 1 Adapter
Unit Booted 1 Gig micro SD With CF Type 1 Adapter

Unit Did Not Boot With CFII Micro Drive.....
Unit Did not Boot With 2 Gig SD With CF Type 2 Adapter

I Will test Other Forms and sizes of flash memory when I can get my hands on
them. If any one Know of any sources of low power Wifi CF cards with 4gb or
larger capacity please let me know.

Also if your looking for Interface Cables look Here Only $3.00 Pluss they
have right Angle Plugs Pre Wired Add a DB9 Connector There You Go Connect to
PC.

http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/4_Conductor_2_5mm_Cables.html

See what happens when I take time off get bord and start playing.....

Laters

[NW_Pilot]

"NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
. ..
> Been chatting with a few old time geek friends online it looks like we are
> going to start an embedded Linux project for this hardware while keeping
> it capable of running current nav data/maps my unit just booted an 8 gig
> CF card (Avmap SW) a friend is going to try a 32 gig card in the next week
> or so on his. Looks like this hardware will make a great open source
> platform.
>
> Unit Booted SanDisk ConnectPlus With Wifi 2 bad they are not larger in
> capacity... Would be Great Wifi Addition.
> Unit Booted 8 gig CF Card
> Unit Booted 2 Gig SD With CF Type 1 Adapter
> Unit Booted 1 Gig micro SD With CF Type 1 Adapter
>
> Unit Did Not Boot With CFII Micro Drive.....
> Unit Did not Boot With 2 Gig SD With CF Type 2 Adapter
>
> I Will test Other Forms and sizes of flash memory when I can get my hands
> on them. If any one Know of any sources of low power Wifi CF cards with
> 4gb or larger capacity please let me know.
>
> Also if your looking for Interface Cables look Here Only $3.00 Pluss they
> have right Angle Plugs Pre Wired Add a DB9 Connector There You Go Connect
> to PC.
>
> http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/4_Conductor_2_5mm_Cables.html
>
> See what happens when I take time off get bord and start playing.....
>
> Laters
>
Finding all sorts of cool things about this Hardware!

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:41:28 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
> wrote in
>:

>> Been chatting with a few old time geek friends online it looks like we are
>> going to start an embedded Linux project for this hardware while keeping
>> it capable of running current nav data/maps

What sort of Linux applications are you considering for the Avmap
EKP-IV?

[NW_Pilot]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:41:28 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>>> Been chatting with a few old time geek friends online it looks like we
>>> are
>>> going to start an embedded Linux project for this hardware while keeping
>>> it capable of running current nav data/maps
>
> What sort of Linux applications are you considering for the Avmap
> EKP-IV?

It's a Samsung Arm9 @ 226+ MHz there are many devices running Linux on this
platform.

Update: Friend who has had one for a few years cracked his Open Today
Numbers On the CPU Chip Are S3C2410 Translates To ARM920T RISC CPU kernel
with max. 266 MHz clock... Waiting on a newer unit to be opened to see whats
inside.

Info On CPU
http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...artnum=S3C2410

Playing with cards it only supports 3.3 V flash will not support any 5V
flash cards... or adapters...

Waiting on a newer unit with a cracked/busted display to arrive for
Disassembly and parts search and Possible Jtag connection Location unless
can be Loaded/Downloaded Via onboard USB.

[Larry Dighera]

What sort of Linux applications are you considering for the Avmap
EKP-IV?

[Thomas Borchert]

Larry,

> What sort of Linux applications are you considering for the Avmap
> EKP-IV?
>

I like your style ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

Photo LInks Did not Show on First Post...

> OK,
>
> Found out that the key File in Avmaps software is the CMAP2.CER it is some
> how tied to The Compact Flash ID on the CF card marrying the data base to
> the CF to the data base installed... This issue will be solved....
>
> If anyone knows how to clone/change/generate a CF ID let me know.
>
> Wife did not tell me UPS left a Package On the Door...
>
> Upon Disassembly I notice Very Good Construction, The Wave and Reflo and
> Photo Etching of the Board Is Top Notch Way to Go to the Board Houses if
> they are In House at Avmap can see this company around a long time.
>
> I do have the tools to remove the BGA package but not going to risk this
> unit as it is a working one... and my skills are very rusty been few years
> since I played with SMT rework equipment.
>
> I will as soon as i recive the broken one first thing is remover and Dump
> the TSOP thank Xeltek for the Auto ID feature the Old Legacy Model Superpro
> 680 I have On My Desk Still Supports 11,400+ Parts hehehe Will decompile it
> and see what's actually going on inside this thing.
>
> Beware Battery Back Up Ram!!! If You Unplug the GPS Receiver You Will Loose
> Your Almanac And Need To Wait About 30 Min to Download a New One....
>
> GPS CHIP Set
> Ublox
> LEA-4S-0-000
>
> Main Board, # BM831E
>
> 48LC8M16A2 X 2 SYNCHRONOUS DRAM
>
> cy62128ev300ll-45ZXI Still Searching? Anyone?
>
> Altera MAX EMP3256ATC144-10NIC, COMPLEX-EEPLD,256-CELL,7.5NS PROP
> DELAY,QFP,144PIN,PLASTIC
>
> Flash 29L? Ground Off???? Under the S8 Sticker...
>
> CPU Samsung
> S3C2410AL-26 CO707 ARM 9 Under OK SMD Sticker
>
> Right Now Changing Power Plug to Standard Type!!!!
>
> Will Add DB9 Serial Connector To GPS Reciver Board
>
> Lithium Battery Will be Socketed!!!
>
> Will Add Standard USB if I cannot find adapter.
>
> Photo's Are Very Large...!!! Right Click & Download Use Photo Shop Or
> Something?
>
> Photo 1 Main Board 3.5MB

http://airplanemanuals.com/avmap_apart/Avmap_MB_DL.jpg

> &
> Photo 2 GPS Serial & USB 1.5MB

http://airplanemanuals.com/avmap_apart/Ublox_Serial_GPS.jpg

>
> More To Follow,,,, Linux os looking good...

[NW_Pilot]

Full E6B Calculator, Web Browser, Wi-Fi, Small Six Pack Display, Config
Files, Keyboard,

Each CF Card contains a "CF-ID". Your GPS Software reads that CF-ID and
compares this to a file on the card CMAP2.CER A mismatch blocks the maps
from loading. You can read the CF-ID through the About Page.


Now all we need to do is figure out the CMAP2.CER File So we can make our
files for cards to load our maps. Garmin has a similar type of file
protection system to prevent their maps from loading. There is a Key Gen
Called jetmouse keygen that creates a Garmin check file for the SD/MMC ID
format they use.



As soon as we can get the maps to load on another card, we will know what
will be required to include in the linux kernel for running their map data
and be able to grab updates when needed etc.



I have some Sketched some potentiol GUI's.



"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
> What sort of Linux applications are you considering for the Avmap
> EKP-IV?

[Thomas Borchert]

NW_Pilot,

> As soon as we can get the maps to load on another card,
>

You will also have broken the copy protection, won't you? Exactly how
legal is that per Avmap'S licensing agreement?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[WingFlaps]

On May 1, 7:31*am, Thomas Borchert >
wrote:
> NW_Pilot,
>
> > As soon as we can *get the maps to load on another card,
>
> You will also have broken the copy protection, won't you? Exactly how
> legal is that per Avmap'S licensing agreement?
>

Did he say he wanted to load an Avmap map copy? Maybe he just wants to
load his own maps or something else? I think his experimentation
should be encouraged.

Cheers

[NW_Pilot]

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> NW_Pilot,
>
>> As soon as we can get the maps to load on another card,
>>
>
> You will also have broken the copy protection, won't you? Exactly how
> legal is that per Avmap'S licensing agreement?
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>


Not sure I think that would be Jeppesen that may have an issue, but working
with expired data any ways.... and not making proffit on it just learning.
Right now it's looking like the map data is safe. verry odd encryption!!!

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

WingFlaps wrote:
> On May 1, 7:31 am, Thomas Borchert >
> wrote:
>> NW_Pilot,
>>
>>> As soon as we can get the maps to load on another card,
>> You will also have broken the copy protection, won't you? Exactly how
>> legal is that per Avmap'S licensing agreement?
>>
>
> Did he say he wanted to load an Avmap map copy? Maybe he just wants to
> load his own maps or something else? I think his experimentation
> should be encouraged.
>
> Cheers


Over here in the US we have the DMCA that makes breaking any copy
protection pretty much felony. Breaking the copy protection so he CAN
copy the Avmap map is pretty much the same thing as breaking the copy
protection AND copying the map. Not something he ought to advertise
that he is doing. But NW_pilot has a history of telling us about doing
things he ought not do. Sometimes he even provides video. He hasn't
gotten in trouble for it yet I hope he never does but if he does you can
bet your ass that there will be plenty of folks that yell, "I told you
so." I'll probably be one of them.

[NW_Pilot]

"NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
. ..
> Been chatting with a few old time geek friends online it looks like we are
> going to start an embedded Linux project for this hardware while keeping
> it capable of running current nav data/maps my unit just booted an 8 gig
> CF card (Avmap SW) a friend is going to try a 32 gig card in the next week
> or so on his. Looks like this hardware will make a great open source
> platform.
>
> Unit Booted SanDisk ConnectPlus With Wifi 2 bad they are not larger in
> capacity... Would be Great Wifi Addition.
> Unit Booted 8 gig CF Card
> Unit Booted 2 Gig SD With CF Type 1 Adapter
> Unit Booted 1 Gig micro SD With CF Type 1 Adapter
>
> Unit Did Not Boot With CFII Micro Drive.....
> Unit Did not Boot With 2 Gig SD With CF Type 2 Adapter
>
> I Will test Other Forms and sizes of flash memory when I can get my hands
> on them. If any one Know of any sources of low power Wifi CF cards with
> 4gb or larger capacity please let me know.
>
> Also if your looking for Interface Cables look Here Only $3.00 Pluss they
> have right Angle Plugs Pre Wired Add a DB9 Connector There You Go Connect
> to PC.
>
> http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/4_Conductor_2_5mm_Cables.html
>
> See what happens when I take time off get board and start playing.....
>
> Laters
>
> Finding all sorts of cool things about this Hardware!
>
> OK,
> Found out that the key File in Avmaps software is the CMAP2.CER it is some
> how tied to The Compact Flash ID on the CF card marrying the data base to
> the CF to the data base installed... This issue will be solved....
> If anyone knows how to clone/change/generate a CF ID let me know.
> Wife did not tell me UPS left a Package On the Door...
> Upon Disassembly I notice Very Good Construction, The Wave and Reflo and
> Photo Etching of the Board Is Top Notch Way to Go to the Board Houses if
> they are In House at Avmap can see this company around a long time.
> I do have the tools to remove the BGA package but not going to risk this
> unit as it is a working one... and my skills are very rusty been few years
> since I played with SMT rework equipment.
> I will as soon as I receive the broken one first thing is remover and Dump
> the TSOP thank Xeltek for the Auto ID feature the Old Legacy Model
> Superpro 680 I have On My Desk Still Supports 11,400+ Parts hehehe Will
> decompile it and see what's actually going on inside this thing.
> Beware Battery Back Up Ram!!! If You Unplug the GPS Receiver You Will
> Loose Your Almanac And Need To Wait About 30 Min to Download a New One....
> GPS CHIP Set Ublox LEA-4S-0-000
> Main Board, # BM831E
> 48LC8M16A2 X 2 SYNCHRONOUS DRAM
> cy62128ev300ll-45ZXI Still Searching? Anyone?
> Altera MAX EMP3256ATC144-10NIC, COMPLEX-EEPLD,256-CELL,7.5NS PROP
> DELAY,QFP,144PIN,PLASTIC
> Flash 29L? Ground Off???? Under the S8 Sticker...
> CPU Samsung S3C2410AL-26 CO707 ARM 9 Under OK SMD Sticker
> http://airplanemanuals.com/avmap_apart/S3C2410A.pdf
>
> Right Now Changing Power Plug to Standard Type!!!!
> Will Add DB9 Serial Connector To GPS Reciver Board
> Lithium Battery Will be Socketed there is room!!!
> Will Add Standard USB connector if I cannot find adapter.
> Photo's Are Very Large...!!! Right Click & Download Use Photo Shop Or
> Something?
> Photo 1 Main Board 3.5MB
> http://airplanemanuals.com/avmap_apart/Avmap_MB_DL.jpg
> & Photo 2 GPS Serial & USB 1.5MB
> http://airplanemanuals.com/avmap_apart/Ublox_Serial_GPS.jpg
>
> More To Follow,,,, Linux os looking good...
>
>
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> What sort of Linux applications are you considering for the Avmap
>> EKP-IV?
>
>
>"NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
. ..
> Full E6B Calculator, Web Browser, Wi-Fi, Small Six Pack Display, Config
> Files, Keyboard,
>
> Each CF Card contains a "CF-ID". Your GPS Software reads that CF-ID and
> compares this to a file on the card CMAP2.CER and the map file A mismatch
> blocks the maps from loading. You can read the CF-ID through the About
> Page.
>
>
> Now all we need to do is figure out the CMAP2.CER File and So we can make
> our files for cards to load our maps. Garmin has a similar type of file
> protection system to prevent their maps from loading. There is a Key Gen
> Called jetmouse keygen that creates a Garmin check file for the SD/MMC ID
> format they use.
>
> As soon as we can get the maps to load on another card, we will know what
> will be required to include in the linux kernel for running their map data
> and be able to grab updates when needed etc.
>
> I have some Sketched some potential GUI's.
>
"Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in message
m...
> WingFlaps wrote:
>> On May 1, 7:31 am, Thomas Borchert >
>> wrote:
>>> NW_Pilot,
>>>
>>>> As soon as we can get the maps to load on another card,
>>> You will also have broken the copy protection, won't you? Exactly how
>>> legal is that per Avmap'S licensing agreement?
>>>
>>
>> Did he say he wanted to load an Avmap map copy? Maybe he just wants to
>> load his own maps or something else? I think his experimentation
>> should be encouraged.
>>
>> Cheers
>
>
> Over here in the US we have the DMCA that makes breaking any copy
> protection pretty much felony. Breaking the copy protection so he CAN copy
> the Avmap map is pretty much the same thing as breaking the copy
> protection AND copying the map. Not something he ought to advertise that
> he is doing. But NW_pilot has a history of telling us about doing things
> he ought not do. Sometimes he even provides video. He hasn't gotten in
> trouble for it yet I hope he never does but if he does you can bet your
> ass that there will be plenty of folks that yell, "I told you so." I'll
> probably be one of them.

That is like Microsoft telling us if you want a upgrade your hard drive to
something larger than what hardware mfg has given or is willing to give you
and you want a duel boot your original license you cant. Microsoft sure did
get I hot water when they tried it so what Aamap is doing software mfg's get
in trouble for... I want 8+ gig of storage and a Linux OS on MY hardware I
purchased, But I still want to keep the Avmap map data I paid for! There is
no license agreement with in the unit, with the unit, or displayed on the
unit! No agreement in the manual or packaged with the unit in it's
paperwork.

Reverse engineering for knowledge is not illegal...that I am aware of. Now
if I was, which I am not! make the data base public with A broken copy
protection included then that is a different story.

I am just learning how to upgrade hardware and keep and load the data I
already purchased and how to modify that data to make it better for my own
personal use. It happens all there time in the Linux environment to run
software not intended for the Linux OS.

Also reposting all because it did not post to the Linux groups and missing a
message or 2?

This Little machine and it's platform is capable of so much with linux
embeded lots of versions out there to pick but if I an unable to keep get to
keep the original os i am not going to bother!

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting NW_Pilot > wrote:
> "NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
> . ..


> That is like Microsoft telling us if you want a upgrade your hard drive to
> something larger than what hardware mfg has given or is willing to give you
> and you want a duel boot your original license you cant. Microsoft sure did
> get I hot water when they tried it so what Aamap is doing software mfg's get
> in trouble for... I want 8+ gig of storage and a Linux OS on MY hardware I
> purchased, But I still want to keep the Avmap map data I paid for! There is
> no license agreement with in the unit, with the unit, or displayed on the
> unit! No agreement in the manual or packaged with the unit in it's
> paperwork.

Nope, you bought a complete system from Avmap, not a pile of software.

It would be more like Apple telling you what hardware to use.

But all that is moot and totally irrelevant.

The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.

> Reverse engineering for knowledge is not illegal...that I am aware of. Now
> if I was, which I am not! make the data base public with A broken copy
> protection included then that is a different story.

Just breaking copy protection, no matter what you do with the stuff
afterwards, is illegal.

Providing tools or instructions on how to break copy protection is illegal.

All the rest of your post is just rationalization.

Just about anyone can initiate an indictment against you for violating
DMCA; it doesn't have to be Avmap.

You are an idiot for posting this to the world.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[NW_Pilot]

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.piloting NW_Pilot >
> wrote:
>> "NW_Pilot" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>
>
>> That is like Microsoft telling us if you want a upgrade your hard drive
>> to
>> something larger than what hardware mfg has given or is willing to give
>> you
>> and you want a duel boot your original license you cant. Microsoft sure
>> did
>> get I hot water when they tried it so what Aamap is doing software mfg's
>> get
>> in trouble for... I want 8+ gig of storage and a Linux OS on MY hardware
>> I
>> purchased, But I still want to keep the Avmap map data I paid for! There
>> is
>> no license agreement with in the unit, with the unit, or displayed on the
>> unit! No agreement in the manual or packaged with the unit in it's
>> paperwork.
>
> Nope, you bought a complete system from Avmap, not a pile of software.
>
> It would be more like Apple telling you what hardware to use.
>
> But all that is moot and totally irrelevant.
>
> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>
>> Reverse engineering for knowledge is not illegal...that I am aware of.
>> Now
>> if I was, which I am not! make the data base public with A broken copy
>> protection included then that is a different story.
>
> Just breaking copy protection, no matter what you do with the stuff
> afterwards, is illegal.
>
> Providing tools or instructions on how to break copy protection is
> illegal.
>
> All the rest of your post is just rationalization.
>
> Just about anyone can initiate an indictment against you for violating
> DMCA; it doesn't have to be Avmap.
>
> You are an idiot for posting this to the world.
>
>
> --
> Jim Pennino
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Yea, nothing has been broken as of yet.... I still have my DVD tee Shirt
packed away in a drawer some place!

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

NW_Pilot wrote:

> Reverse engineering for knowledge is not illegal...that I am aware of. Now
> if I was, which I am not! make the data base public with A broken copy
> protection included then that is a different story.
>

Highlights of the DMCA...


· Makes it a crime to circumvent anti-piracy measures built into
most commercial software.

Breaking that one.


· Outlaws the manufacture, sale, or distribution of
code-cracking devices used to illegally copy software.

You'll break that one if you tell us how to do it.


· Does permit the cracking of copyright protection devices,
however, to conduct encryption research, assess product
interoperability, and test computer security systems.


Doesn't cover what you are doing and I'm pretty sure you have to have
the makers permission.

· Provides exemptions from anti-circumvention provisions for
nonprofit libraries, archives, and educational institutions under
certain circumstances.

Doesn't apply to you.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-05-01, > wrote:
> Just breaking copy protection, no matter what you do with the stuff
> afterwards, is illegal.

Breaking the encryption for the purpose of interoperability is not
illegal under the US DMCA. In fact, the DMCA has specific wording to
explicitly say that breaking protection measures for interoperability
is allowed.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

[Albert van der Horst]

In article >,
> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.

Even if that law is constitutional in the US,
one billion Chinese couldn't care less.

>--
>Jim Pennino

Groetjes Albert

--
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- like all pyramid schemes -- ultimately falters.
&=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[David Brown]

wrote:
> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>

IANAL...

Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
not matter what the MPAA might think.

Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.

And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

David Brown wrote:
> wrote:
>> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>
>
> IANAL...
>
> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
> not matter what the MPAA might think.
>
> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.
>
> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.


Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties

`(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--

`(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more
than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and

`(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting David Brown > wrote:
> wrote:
> > The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
> >

> IANAL...

> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
> not matter what the MPAA might think.

> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.

> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.

Note that DMCA is based on WIPO treaties which includes most of the
first world.

The equivalant in Europe is the EU Copyright Directive and Electronic
Commerce Directive as implemented by various nations.

The big issue here is not copying for personal use, but breaking copy
protection.

And yes, it is a crime.

Now, all you barracks lawyers can jump up and down and scream "You
can't do that!" all you want, but if you get indicted you are in
for a long, expensive legal battle as Dmitry Sklyarov found out
the hard way.

Personally I think DMCA is bad law, but I also think publicly flaunting
the law is a real bad idea unless you have really deep pockets and are
looking to be a test case for reform.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[WingFlaps]

On May 3, 1:28*am, Gig 601Xl Builder >
wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>
> > IANAL...
>
> > Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
> > methods" have to be effective to be relevant? *Thus trivial or
> > easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
> > *not matter what the MPAA might think.
>
> > Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.
>
> > And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? *Unlicensed
> > copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
> > unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
> > circumstances. *It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
> > can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>
> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>
> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>
> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more
> than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>
> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.- Hide quoted text -
>

Yes, big a stick but section (a) does not refer to a non-profit
private person -or does it?

Cheers

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 2 May 2008 13:41:36 -0700 (PDT), WingFlaps
> wrote:

>On May 3, 1:28*am, Gig 601Xl Builder >
>wrote:
>> David Brown wrote:
>> > wrote:
>> >> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>
>> > IANAL...
>>
>> > Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
>> > methods" have to be effective to be relevant? *Thus trivial or
>> > easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
>> > *not matter what the MPAA might think.
>>
>> > Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.
>>
>> > And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? *Unlicensed
>> > copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>> > unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>> > circumstances. *It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>> > can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>>
>> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>>
>> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
>> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>>
>> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more
>> than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>>
>> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
>> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
>Yes, big a stick but section (a) does not refer to a non-profit
>private person -or does it?

Yes it would. The private financial gain would be the lack of payment
to the organization that legitimately provides a service. Breaking
the protection on, say, the Garmin 430 database so that I can update 2
units in my aircraft while only paying for one would be against the
law even though it would be for a non-profit private person.

[NW_Pilot]

"Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in message
m...
> David Brown wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>>
>>
>> IANAL...
>>
>> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
>> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
>> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
>> not matter what the MPAA might think.
>>
>> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the
>> world.
>>
>> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
>> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>
>
> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>
> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>
> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than
> 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>
> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.

So for personal knowledge and educational purpose?

[NW_Pilot]

"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 13:41:36 -0700 (PDT), WingFlaps
> > wrote:
>
>>On May 3, 1:28 am, Gig 601Xl Builder >
>>wrote:
>>> David Brown wrote:
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>>
>>> > IANAL...
>>>
>>> > Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical
>>> > protection
>>> > methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
>>> > easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the
>>> > DMCA,
>>> > not matter what the MPAA might think.
>>>
>>> > Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the
>>> > world.
>>>
>>> > And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
>>> > copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>>> > unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>>> > circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>>> > can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>>>
>>> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>>>
>>> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
>>> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>>>
>>> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more
>>> than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>>>
>>> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
>>> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>
>>Yes, big a stick but section (a) does not refer to a non-profit
>>private person -or does it?
>
> Yes it would. The private financial gain would be the lack of payment
> to the organization that legitimately provides a service. Breaking
> the protection on, say, the Garmin 430 database so that I can update 2
> units in my aircraft while only paying for one would be against the
> law even though it would be for a non-profit private person.


Thats not what happning here I want to run linux on my unit and have 8 gig
of storage and still run my map the company dose not offer a 8+ gig card!!!
So if they dont offer it then how can I pay them?

[NW_Pilot]

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.piloting David Brown >
> wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>> >
>
>> IANAL...
>
>> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
>> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
>> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
>> not matter what the MPAA might think.
>
>> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the
>> world.
>
>> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
>> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>
> Note that DMCA is based on WIPO treaties which includes most of the
> first world.
>
> The equivalant in Europe is the EU Copyright Directive and Electronic
> Commerce Directive as implemented by various nations.
>
> The big issue here is not copying for personal use, but breaking copy
> protection.
>
> And yes, it is a crime.
>
> Now, all you barracks lawyers can jump up and down and scream "You
> can't do that!" all you want, but if you get indicted you are in
> for a long, expensive legal battle as Dmitry Sklyarov found out
> the hard way.
>
> Personally I think DMCA is bad law, but I also think publicly flaunting
> the law is a real bad idea unless you have really deep pockets and are
> looking to be a test case for reform.
>
>
> --
> Jim Pennino
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.


Not wanting to break the law!

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Peter Clark wrote:
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 13:41:36 -0700 (PDT), WingFlaps
> > wrote:
>
>> On May 3, 1:28 am, Gig 601Xl Builder >
>> wrote:
>>> David Brown wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>>> IANAL...
>>>> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
>>>> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
>>>> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
>>>> not matter what the MPAA might think.
>>>> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.
>>>> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
>>>> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>>>> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>>>> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>>>> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>>> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>>>
>>> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
>>> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>>>
>>> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more
>>> than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>>>
>>> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
>>> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>> Yes, big a stick but section (a) does not refer to a non-profit
>> private person -or does it?
>
> Yes it would. The private financial gain would be the lack of payment
> to the organization that legitimately provides a service. Breaking
> the protection on, say, the Garmin 430 database so that I can update 2
> units in my aircraft while only paying for one would be against the
> law even though it would be for a non-profit private person.

Because you would receive "private financial gain" from not having to
pay for the second one.

The big point here is that the threat is there even if you can find a
out in the law. Defending yourself alone could cost you as much as the fine.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

NW_Pilot wrote:

> Thats not what happning here I want to run linux on my unit and have 8 gig
> of storage and still run my map the company dose not offer a 8+ gig card!!!
> So if they dont offer it then how can I pay them?
>
>

NW_Pilot,

I couldn't care less if you crack the the thing or not. But you should
know that they law is there and broadcasting what may or may not be a
felony isn't a smart thing to do.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

NW_Pilot wrote:
> "Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in message
> m...
>> David Brown wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>>>
>>> IANAL...
>>>
>>> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
>>> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
>>> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
>>> not matter what the MPAA might think.
>>>
>>> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the
>>> world.
>>>
>>> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
>>> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>>> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>>> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>>> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>>
>> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>>
>> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
>> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>>
>> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than
>> 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>>
>> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
>> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.
>
> So for personal knowledge and educational purpose?
>
>
>

That would reduce it from a felony to a misdemeanor.

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 05 May 2008 09:40:26 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
> wrote:

>Peter Clark wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 May 2008 13:41:36 -0700 (PDT), WingFlaps
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On May 3, 1:28 am, Gig 601Xl Builder >
>>> wrote:
>>>> David Brown wrote:
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> The mere act of breaking copy protection is a crime under DMCA.
>>>>> IANAL...
>>>>> Doesn't the wording of the DMCA also say that the "technical protection
>>>>> methods" have to be effective to be relevant? Thus trivial or
>>>>> easily-broken protection (such as on DVDs) does not fall under the DMCA,
>>>>> not matter what the MPAA might think.
>>>>> Also note that the DMCA only applies to the USA, not the rest of the world.
>>>>> And is breaking the DMCA actually a crime, even in the USA? Unlicensed
>>>>> copying of copyrighted works is not a crime in most of the free world,
>>>>> unless it is done for commercial gain, or has other incriminating
>>>>> circumstances. It is unlawful, but not criminal - the copyright owners
>>>>> can sue you for damages, but you cannot be jailed by the state.
>>>> Sec. 1204. Criminal offenses and penalties
>>>>
>>>> `(a) IN GENERAL- Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully
>>>> and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain--
>>>>
>>>> `(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more
>>>> than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
>>>>
>>>> `(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more
>>>> than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>> Yes, big a stick but section (a) does not refer to a non-profit
>>> private person -or does it?
>>
>> Yes it would. The private financial gain would be the lack of payment
>> to the organization that legitimately provides a service. Breaking
>> the protection on, say, the Garmin 430 database so that I can update 2
>> units in my aircraft while only paying for one would be against the
>> law even though it would be for a non-profit private person.
>
>Because you would receive "private financial gain" from not having to
>pay for the second one.
>
>The big point here is that the threat is there even if you can find a
>out in the law. Defending yourself alone could cost you as much as the fine.

I'm presuming that you are not referring to me there?

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Peter Clark wrote:

> I'm presuming that you are not referring to me there?


No, I wasn't, I was chiming in to support what you were saying to
WingFlaps or what ever his name is.