Video...Short field/OBS takeoff with Art's VG.s and gap seals.

[Dave[_19_]]

OK, we got it today... for those who asked, and a couple of skeptics.
:)

Amateur camera man, non test pilot..

This is at a busy airport, and Cory got to ride in the crash truck!
They don't like people out on an active rny with out that big yellow
truck!

The process is a rolling start, inside tank selected, flaps up,
throttle friction high, using the full width of the runway, full power
at 45 deg to rny heading. You will get a quick look at the pulsar
lights on the turn. Flaps are popped down (25 deg) at 40 Knts
indicated, count "1 thousand, 2 thousand ", and the yoke is pulled
back all the way. (note the stabilator deflection at rotation)

The runway marker under the plane at rotation is the 500 ft marker,
Cory is at the 600 ft point with the camera, and you can see we have
at least 50 ft obs clearance height at the 600 ft mark. On this
takeoff I stayed at max angle, as I was asked to keep from overflying
the cross runway 6000 ft away, and was going for 500 AGL for the
crosswind tun. (easy) Normally one would level once clear of obs and
increase speed to remove the flaps 1 knotch at a time.

I was alone (160lbs), 70 lbs in baggage compartment, tanks a little
less than 1/2, OAT 13C, wind reported 2 knts at 110 on rny heading of
090 (essentially wind calm)

Oh yes.. credits!

Camera - Cory
FSS/ATC - Francine
Crash Truck - Todd
Pilot - Dave
Plane - CG-DQT 1976 Piper Warrior, PA-28 -151

Next vid (hopefully) "Night Pulsar"

Cheers!

Dave

Here is the link! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Od9s_VEXS8

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:56:25 -0300, Dave > wrote
in >:

>
>The process is a rolling start, inside tank selected, flaps up,
>throttle friction high, using the full width of the runway, full power
>at 45 deg to rny heading. You will get a quick look at the pulsar
>lights on the turn. Flaps are popped down (25 deg) at 40 Knts
>indicated, count "1 thousand, 2 thousand ", and the yoke is pulled
>back all the way. (note the stabilator deflection at rotation)
>
>The runway marker under the plane at rotation is the 500 ft marker,
>Cory is at the 600 ft point with the camera, and you can see we have
>at least 50 ft obs clearance height at the 600 ft mark.
>
>I was alone (160lbs), 70 lbs in baggage compartment, tanks a little
>less than 1/2, OAT 13C, wind reported 2 knts at 110 on rny heading of
>090 (essentially wind calm)
>
>Plane - CG-DQT 1976 Piper Warrior, PA-28-151
>
>Here is the link! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Od9s_VEXS8
>

Very impressive. Normal takeoff distance over a 50' obstacle is
~1,600' or so.

Can you demonstrate a similar landing over a 50' obstacle?

[Dave[_19_]]

Hi Larry,

The best I have done is getting it stopped in about 450feet with
acccurate speed control, dragging it in with power and planting the
mains on the end of the runway with heavy braking.

Over a 50 ft OBS, (estimated by an observer) I needed about 900 ft and
heavy braking to get stopped.

The only gain on the short field landing is a lower approach speed
(about 5 knts less at all flap speeds) and more elevator authority
during the flare. We also have the wing root fairings installed,
improving the pitch response at low speeds.

I don't think I would try to achieve the same decent angle as the
easily achieved climb angle that we can get on takeoff.

At that rate of decent, if I didn't get the required agressive
flare....JUST RIGHT... (!) it would not be a good day... :(

Cheers!

Dave




On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:44:52 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:56:25 -0300, Dave > wrote
>in >:
>
>>

>>
>
>Very impressive. Normal takeoff distance over a 50' obstacle is
>~1,600' or so.
>
>Can you demonstrate a similar landing over a 50' obstacle?

[WingFlaps]

On Apr 28, 2:56*pm, Dave > wrote:
> OK, we got it today... for those who asked, and a couple of skeptics.
> :)
>
> Amateur camera man, non test pilot.. *
>
> This is at a busy airport, and Cory got to ride in the crash truck!
> They don't like people out on an active rny with out that big yellow
> truck! *
>
> The process is a rolling start, inside tank selected, flaps up,
> throttle friction high, using the full width of the runway, full power
> at 45 deg to rny heading. You will get a quick look at the pulsar
> lights on the turn. Flaps are popped down (25 deg) at 40 Knts
> indicated, count "1 thousand, 2 thousand ", and the yoke is pulled
> back all the way. (note the stabilator deflection at rotation)
>
> The runway marker under the plane at rotation is the 500 ft marker,
> Cory is at the 600 ft point with the camera, and you can see we have
> at least 50 ft obs clearance height at the 600 ft mark. On this
> takeoff I stayed at max angle, as I was asked to keep from overflying
> the cross runway 6000 ft away, and was going for 500 AGL for the
> crosswind tun. (easy) Normally one would level once clear of obs and
> increase speed to remove the flaps 1 knotch at a time.
>
> I was alone (160lbs), 70 lbs in baggage compartment, tanks a little
> less than 1/2, OAT 13C, wind reported 2 knts at 110 on rny heading of
> 090 (essentially wind calm)
>
> Oh yes.. credits!
>
> Camera - Cory
> FSS/ATC - Francine
> Crash Truck - Todd
> Pilot - Dave
> Plane - CG-DQT 1976 Piper Warrior, PA-28 -151
>
> Next vid (hopefully) "Night Pulsar"
>
> Cheers!
>

Can you put those numbers in context please? What are the factory
figures for a short field that takeoff weight?

Cheers

[Dave[_1_]]

The book says ....

Takeoff distance (at gross) - Ground Roll: 1065 ft
Over 50 ft obstacle: 1760 ft

We were at about 1900 lbs...

We worked with some camera angles, and the plane appears to be at
approx 60 ft AGL at the 600 ft (camera ) location.

Cheers!

Dave






On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:49:20 -0700 (PDT), WingFlaps
> wrote:

>On Apr 28, 2:56*pm, Dave > wrote:
>> OK, we got it today... for those who asked, and a couple of skeptics.
>> :)
>>
>> Amateur camera man, non test pilot.. *
>>
>> This is at a busy airport, and Cory got to ride in the crash truck!
>> They don't like people out on an active rny with out that big yellow
>> truck! *
>>
>> The process is a rolling start, inside tank selected, flaps up,
>> throttle friction high, using the full width of the runway, full power
>> at 45 deg to rny heading. You will get a quick look at the pulsar
>> lights on the turn. Flaps are popped down (25 deg) at 40 Knts
>> indicated, count "1 thousand, 2 thousand ", and the yoke is pulled
>> back all the way. (note the stabilator deflection at rotation)
>>
>> The runway marker under the plane at rotation is the 500 ft marker,
>> Cory is at the 600 ft point with the camera, and you can see we have
>> at least 50 ft obs clearance height at the 600 ft mark. On this
>> takeoff I stayed at max angle, as I was asked to keep from overflying
>> the cross runway 6000 ft away, and was going for 500 AGL for the
>> crosswind tun. (easy) Normally one would level once clear of obs and
>> increase speed to remove the flaps 1 knotch at a time.
>>
>> I was alone (160lbs), 70 lbs in baggage compartment, tanks a little
>> less than 1/2, OAT 13C, wind reported 2 knts at 110 on rny heading of
>> 090 (essentially wind calm)
>>
>> Oh yes.. credits!
>>
>> Camera - Cory
>> FSS/ATC - Francine
>> Crash Truck - Todd
>> Pilot - Dave
>> Plane - CG-DQT 1976 Piper Warrior, PA-28 -151
>>
>> Next vid (hopefully) "Night Pulsar"
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>
>Can you put those numbers in context please? What are the factory
>figures for a short field that takeoff weight?
>
>Cheers
>

[Matt Whiting]

Dave wrote:
> OK, we got it today... for those who asked, and a couple of skeptics.
> :)
>
> Amateur camera man, non test pilot..
>
> This is at a busy airport, and Cory got to ride in the crash truck!
> They don't like people out on an active rny with out that big yellow
> truck!
>
> The process is a rolling start, inside tank selected, flaps up,
> throttle friction high, using the full width of the runway, full power
> at 45 deg to rny heading. You will get a quick look at the pulsar
> lights on the turn. Flaps are popped down (25 deg) at 40 Knts
> indicated, count "1 thousand, 2 thousand ", and the yoke is pulled
> back all the way. (note the stabilator deflection at rotation)
>
> The runway marker under the plane at rotation is the 500 ft marker,
> Cory is at the 600 ft point with the camera, and you can see we have
> at least 50 ft obs clearance height at the 600 ft mark. On this
> takeoff I stayed at max angle, as I was asked to keep from overflying
> the cross runway 6000 ft away, and was going for 500 AGL for the
> crosswind tun. (easy) Normally one would level once clear of obs and
> increase speed to remove the flaps 1 knotch at a time.

It didn't look like 50' passing the camera, but it is hard to tell from
the angle shown. That looks almost as good as a stock C182! :-)

Matt

[Dave[_1_]]

Hi Matt!

I think you are right, we worked it out to be about 65 ft AGL.

Assuming the wings were level, and estimating the angle formed to
horizontal from the extended left main gear axle to the wing /fuselage
joint, and knowing the camera was 50 ft off the edge of the 200 ft.
wide runway, and the plane was 15 ft to the left of the centerline of
the runway, the high school trig we could remember worked out to 65
ft AGL...

But , many estimations were made here, so the probable error could be
significant.

We are very confident the plane was well above 50 ft at this 600 ft
point.

Also very confident that we had too much time on our hands this
morning ... :)

Dave





On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:35:58 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>Dave wrote:
>> OK, we got it today... for those who asked, and a couple of skeptics.
>> :)
>>
>> Amateur camera man, non test pilot..
>>
>> This is at a busy airport, and Cory got to ride in the crash truck!
>> They don't like people out on an active rny with out that big yellow
>> truck!
>>
>> The process is a rolling start, inside tank selected, flaps up,
>> throttle friction high, using the full width of the runway, full power
>> at 45 deg to rny heading. You will get a quick look at the pulsar
>> lights on the turn. Flaps are popped down (25 deg) at 40 Knts
>> indicated, count "1 thousand, 2 thousand ", and the yoke is pulled
>> back all the way. (note the stabilator deflection at rotation)
>>
>> The runway marker under the plane at rotation is the 500 ft marker,
>> Cory is at the 600 ft point with the camera, and you can see we have
>> at least 50 ft obs clearance height at the 600 ft mark. On this
>> takeoff I stayed at max angle, as I was asked to keep from overflying
>> the cross runway 6000 ft away, and was going for 500 AGL for the
>> crosswind tun. (easy) Normally one would level once clear of obs and
>> increase speed to remove the flaps 1 knotch at a time.
>
>It didn't look like 50' passing the camera, but it is hard to tell from
>the angle shown. That looks almost as good as a stock C182! :-)
>
>Matt

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Dave > wrote in
:

> Hi Matt!
>
> I think you are right, we worked it out to be about 65 ft AGL.
>
> Assuming the wings were level, and estimating the angle formed to
> horizontal from the extended left main gear axle to the wing /fuselage
> joint, and knowing the camera was 50 ft off the edge of the 200 ft.
> wide runway, and the plane was 15 ft to the left of the centerline of
> the runway, the high school trig we could remember worked out to 65
> ft AGL...
>
> But , many estimations were made here, so the probable error could be
> significant.
>
> We are very confident the plane was well above 50 ft at this 600 ft
> point.
>
> Also very confident that we had too much time on our hands this
> morning ... :)
>

Well, the performance is obviosouly great, but you haven't incuded your
turn into the takeoff roll in that, have you? You were going pretty
quick as you lined up... A good technique if you're tight, but not so
good if you're looking for hard figures. Also, if you are going to
operate out of tight spots, you should find that a slightly slower
rotation will give you a better height providing you keep the rotation
going fast enough to get to VX.

Bertie

[Matt Whiting]

Dave wrote:
> Hi Matt!
>
> I think you are right, we worked it out to be about 65 ft AGL.
>
> Assuming the wings were level, and estimating the angle formed to
> horizontal from the extended left main gear axle to the wing /fuselage
> joint, and knowing the camera was 50 ft off the edge of the 200 ft.
> wide runway, and the plane was 15 ft to the left of the centerline of
> the runway, the high school trig we could remember worked out to 65
> ft AGL...
>
> But , many estimations were made here, so the probable error could be
> significant.
>
> We are very confident the plane was well above 50 ft at this 600 ft
> point.
>
> Also very confident that we had too much time on our hands this
> morning ... :)

Well, if you have to waste time, I can't think of too many better ways
to waste it! :-)

Matt