Red Bull Air Races in Detroit

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

Anyone else planning to attend?

We saw the Red Bull Air Races in Reno, back in '04, and were blown away by
them. Rather than race against other planes, these are timed races over a
closed (very difficult, often bizarre) course. See
http://www.redbullairrace.com/news.php?lang=en for videos and race course
descriptions.

Detroit is their only Midwestern appearance, and we've got our hotel rooms
and tickets reserved. We're planning to meet several other folks who are
flying in from throughout the Midwest, and anticipate a great weekend.
(Keeping our fingers crossed for good weather!)

I'd be interested in the opinions of those who have seen both head-to-head
racing (ala the Reno Air Races) and Red Bull-style closed course races. I
personally have enjoyed both styles, but the Red Bull style has the
advantage of keeping the action right in front of the audience.

Regarding difficulty, Dudley, you've been involved in this sort of thing
over the years -- which, in your opinion, is the more difficult style of
race?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Anyone else planning to attend?
>
> We saw the Red Bull Air Races in Reno, back in '04, and were blown away
> by them. Rather than race against other planes, these are timed races
> over a closed (very difficult, often bizarre) course. See
> http://www.redbullairrace.com/news.php?lang=en for videos and race
> course descriptions.
>
> Detroit is their only Midwestern appearance, and we've got our hotel
> rooms and tickets reserved. We're planning to meet several other folks
> who are flying in from throughout the Midwest, and anticipate a great
> weekend. (Keeping our fingers crossed for good weather!)
>
> I'd be interested in the opinions of those who have seen both
> head-to-head racing (ala the Reno Air Races) and Red Bull-style closed
> course races. I personally have enjoyed both styles, but the Red Bull
> style has the advantage of keeping the action right in front of the
> audience.
>
> Regarding difficulty, Dudley, you've been involved in this sort of thing
> over the years -- which, in your opinion, is the more difficult style of
> race?

Both are difficult but I'd give the edge to the Red Bull pilots, in my
opinion, some of the finest in the world.
Handling a heavy prop fighter flat out at low altitude is extremely
difficult as that relates to rolling in on the pylons. The airspeeds are
well above corner velocity for each type so turn rate and radius are g
limited on the pilot's ability to take it or the limit load factor
whichever occurs first. Structurally the airplane can be over g'd easily
so it's a trade off with what you can take pilot wise against the max g
available out to the limit load factor.
Done correctly, normal racing turns are extremely smooth and led with
great finesse. In this respect it's quite similar to Indy racing.
I've never done the Red Bull, but we have several RB pilots in our
workgroup. Just from watching their films, considering the sensitivity
of their aircraft vs where they put their airplanes on the course and
what they do to position them there, these pilots have my greatest respect.

--
Dudley Henriques

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>Anyone else planning to attend?
>
>Detroit is their only Midwestern appearance, and we've got our hotel rooms
>and tickets reserved. We're planning to meet several other folks who are
>flying in from throughout the Midwest, and anticipate a great weekend.
>(Keeping our fingers crossed for good weather!)
>
Jay,

Uh...my advice is to know exactly where you are going and how to get there
when in Detroit.
Don't get lost.
Don't ever wander aimlessly.

Oh, and take some time for some saganaki at Pegasus in GreekTown not far from
the waterfront.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:xXtSj.91596$TT4.75465@attbi_s22:

> Anyone else planning to attend?


Why, you gonna enter your Cherokee?


Bertie

[Martin Hotze[_2_]]

Jay Honeck schrieb:
> I'd be interested in the opinions of those who have seen both head-to-head
> racing (ala the Reno Air Races) and Red Bull-style closed course races.

Ah! Never forget: It comes from Austria.

:-)

#m

[WingFlaps]

On May 3, 6:30*am, Martin Hotze > wrote:
> Jay Honeck schrieb:
>
> > I'd be interested in the opinions of those who have seen both head-to-head
> > racing (ala the Reno Air Races) and Red Bull-style closed course races.
>
> Ah! Never forget: It comes from Austria.
>
Red Bull originated in Thailand. I think it was Peter B. and some
other pilots who designed the race format.

Cheers

[george]

On May 3, 7:28 am, WingFlaps > wrote:
> On May 3, 6:30 am, Martin Hotze > wrote:> Jay Honeck schrieb:
>
> > > I'd be interested in the opinions of those who have seen both head-to-head
> > > racing (ala the Reno Air Races) and Red Bull-style closed course races.
>
> > Ah! Never forget: It comes from Austria.
>
> Red Bull originated in Thailand. I think it was Peter B. and some
> other pilots who designed the race format.
>
We get the Red Bull races on TV .
not a lot of other things happen while they're on...

[Martin Hotze[_2_]]

WingFlaps schrieb:
> On May 3, 6:30 am, Martin Hotze > wrote:
>> Jay Honeck schrieb:
>>
>>> I'd be interested in the opinions of those who have seen both head-to-head
>>> racing (ala the Reno Air Races) and Red Bull-style closed course races.
>> Ah! Never forget: It comes from Austria.
>>
> Red Bull originated in Thailand. I think it was Peter B. and some
> other pilots who designed the race format.

Red Bull is international (today); but still: it is an Austrian company.

#m

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote in message
news:838e912b5e416@uwe...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
<...>
> Uh...my advice is to know exactly where you are going and how to get there
> when in Detroit.
> Don't get lost.
> Don't ever wander aimlessly.

Why not? Downtown Detroit really isn't some place to be afraid of.

If you are afraid of being in a "big city" you can watch from Windsor
Ontario.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I've never done the Red Bull, but we have several RB pilots in our
> workgroup. Just from watching their films, considering the sensitivity of
> their aircraft vs where they put their airplanes on the course and what
> they do to position them there, these pilots have my greatest respect.

What amazes me is how they can run a complicated course, performing multiple
maneuvers at high speed/high G, and end up being separated by mere seconds,
both from others and from their own times.

Talk about consistency!

I really hope Detroit is up to the task of hosting this event. I know
they've fixed up the riverfront area and all, but we'll be landing at
Ypsilanti and renting a car, which means driving into downtown. My
knowledge-base of gang symbols is twenty years out of date, and (unlike
Baghdad) I probably can't get a military escort through areas controlled by
the insurgents.

{;-0
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:t4ZSj.93803$TT4.18710@attbi_s22:

>> I've never done the Red Bull, but we have several RB pilots in our
>> workgroup. Just from watching their films, considering the
>> sensitivity of their aircraft vs where they put their airplanes on
>> the course and what they do to position them there, these pilots have
>> my greatest respect.
>
> What amazes me is how they can run a complicated course, performing
> multiple maneuvers at high speed/high G, and end up being separated by
> mere seconds, both from others and from their own times.

Of course it does. YOu have no imagination.

Bertie

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:t4ZSj.93803$TT4.18710@attbi_s22...
<...>
> I really hope Detroit is up to the task of hosting this event. I know
> they've fixed up the riverfront area and all, but we'll be landing at
> Ypsilanti and renting a car, which means driving into downtown. My
> knowledge-base of gang symbols is twenty years out of date, and (unlike
> Baghdad) I probably can't get a military escort through areas controlled
> by the insurgents.
>

It ain't like you're going to New York City or some place like that.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Jack Allison]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Anyone else planning to attend?
....um...er...it's a bit far from the Left Coast :-)

> We saw the Red Bull Air Races in Reno, back in '04, and were blown away
> by them.

Hey, that's the same year I saw them...and missed you and Mary by a day
as you guys had to scoot early. That was my second year at Reno and I
enjoyed both race styles.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Student - CP-ASEL

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Hey, that's the same year I saw them...and missed you and Mary by a day as
> you guys had to scoot early. That was my second year at Reno and I
> enjoyed both race styles.

Yeah, that's the year we had to leave on Saturday, ahead of a HUGE
early-winter storm system. Had we not left that day, we'd have been stuck
in Reno for weeks.

It would be cool if they could do a "Reno-style" air race somewhere else,
but the liability boys would have a field day. Wasn't it the old "Cleveland
Air Races" that experienced a terrible crash (into an occupied home) that
ended that type of racing pretty much everywhere?

Didn't they try to organize one last year (?) in rural Mississippi that
flopped?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
><...>
>> Uh...my advice is to know exactly where you are going and how to get there
>> when in Detroit.
>> Don't get lost.
>> Don't ever wander aimlessly.
>
>Why not? Downtown Detroit really isn't some place to be afraid of.
>
>If you are afraid of being in a "big city" you can watch from Windsor
>Ontario.
>
I don't advocate being fearful.

Lived in that city 25+ years and yes downtown is a place in which to be
cautious.

not afraid...just cautious.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1

[Grudgrime]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
...
Uh...my advice is to know exactly where you are going and how to get there
when in Detroit.
Don't get lost.
Don't ever wander aimlessly.

Why not? Downtown Detroit really isn't some place to be afraid of.

If you are afraid of being in a "big city" you can watch from Windsor
Ontario.

I don't advocate being fearful.

Lived in that city 25+ years and yes downtown is a place in which to be
cautious.

not afraid...just cautious.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1

Just to give you all an update. I have lived Downtown for the last 5 years. Its not like it used to be. The actual downtown has a lower crime rate that any of the outlying subdivisions. So PLEASE go and enjoy yourself. You can take the people mover (our version of an L train) all around downtown for .50 a ride. There are restaurants at almost every stop. I walk around all the time and feel as safe as can be. But of course as aleways be cautious

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Just to give you all an update. I have lived Downtown for the last 5
> years. Its not like it used to be. The actual downtown has a lower
> crime rate that any of the outlying subdivisions. So PLEASE go and
> enjoy yourself. You can take the people mover (our version of an L
> train) all around downtown for .50 a ride. There are restaurants at
> almost every stop. I walk around all the time and feel as safe as can
> be. But of course as aleways be cautious

Thanks for the update. Any advice on getting from Ypsilanti to our hotel
(and the races) downtown?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Grudgrime wrote:
>Kloudy via AviationKB.com;628251 Wrote:
>> Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:-

>
>You can take the people mover (our version of an
>train)
>--
>Grudgrime

Heehee. we used to call it the MuggerMover.

Yep... Cobo, RenCen, Greektown area not so bad anymore.

But not far away.....

I'll be back there in July.
Can't wait to see the DIA reno'.

toodles, Jay. have fun

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Grudgrime]

;633535'] Just to give you all an update. I have lived Downtown for the last 5
years. Its not like it used to be. The actual downtown has a lower
crime rate that any of the outlying subdivisions. So PLEASE go and
enjoy yourself. You can take the people mover (our version of an L
train) all around downtown for .50 a ride. There are restaurants at
almost every stop. I walk around all the time and feel as safe as can
be. But of course as aleways be cautious

Thanks for the update. Any advice on getting from Ypsilanti to our hotel
(and the races) downtown?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

JAY,

From Ypsi the best way is 94E to M10 (Lodge FWY) south. Not sure which hotel you are staying at but from the lodge I take the W Jefferson / Joe Louis Exit which dumps you right on to West Jefferson, which runs along the riverfront. Turning around and heading East on Jefferson will get you to the race area. Although I beleive some of the available race parking is the Cobo and Joe Louis parking structures which are right at that exit. ANY other way and you are bound to hit construction.

Hope this helps.

My husband just called me from home and said the are setting up the pylons right now. He said we will actually be able to see some of the race from our window if we wanted. Although we will get a better view down on the boardwalk.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Hope this helps.

Sure does! Thanks...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:c25%j.183089
$yE1.57419@attbi_s21:

>> Hope this helps.
>
> Sure does! Thanks...

Barf


Bertie