Nevada governor to bill Fossett widow for search expenses

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90982

CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Gov. Jim Gibbons intends to bill the widow of
missing multimillionaire adventurer Steve Fossett for $687,000 the state
spent in searching for the famed aviator last fall, a spokesman said.


Gibbons spokesman Ben Kieckhefer told the Las Vegas Review-Journal it
was his understanding that the governor will bill Peggy Fossett for
costs of the unsuccessful search.

Fossett, 63, took off Sept. 3 from Barron Hilton's Flying M Ranch, south
of Yerington, in a small plane on what was supposed to be a short
pleasure flight.

During a monthlong search, ground crews, the Nevada National Guard and
the Civil Air Patrol scoured a 20,000 square-mile area, but turned up no
sign of Fossett or his plane.

Hilton, the hotel magnate, later voluntarily sent the state a check
$200,000 to cover some of the search costs.

Fossett was declared legally dead Feb. 15 by an Illinois judge. In
making that determination, Cook County Circuit Court Judge Jeffery Malak
said Fossett left a "vast," eight-figure estate.

Billing someone for the costs of a search is unusual.

On Tuesday, before Kieckhefer revealed the governor's plans, state
Emergency Management Director Frank Siracusa said state and local
government search and rescue workers have a long-standing tradition of
not charging when they hunt for missing persons, even for
multimillionaires such as Steve Fossett.

"We do not charge the rich or the poor," Siracusa said. "There is no
precedent where government will go after people for costs just because
they have money to pay for it. You get lost, and we look for you. It is
a service your taxpayer dollars pay for."

But Siracusa added that the final decision on whether Peggy Fossett
would be billed rested with the governor, who since January has cut
state spending to deal with a budget shortfall projected to top $900
million by mid-2009.

The Fossetts lived part time in Beaver Creek.

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90982
>
>CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Gov. Jim Gibbons intends to bill the widow of
>missing multimillionaire adventurer Steve Fossett for $687,000 the state
>spent in searching for the famed aviator last fall, a spokesman said.

Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without closure.
In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda suffering.

Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I bail in
the hills?

Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1

[Mxsmanic]

Kloudy via AviationKB.com writes:

> Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
> Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without closure.
> In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda suffering.

There's still the matter of the greater good. The state went overboard
looking for him, and that was very expensive. It's true that they should have
probably asked for her consent if they planned to charge her for it.

> Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I bail in
> the hills?

If it costs millions of dollars, maybe.

> Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.

Be safe and nobody will have to search for you.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Kloudy via AviationKB.com writes:
>
>> Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
>> Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without closure.
>> In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda suffering.
>
> There's still the matter of the greater good. The state went overboard
> looking for him, and that was very expensive. It's true that they should have
> probably asked for her consent if they planned to charge her for it.
>
>> Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I bail in
>> the hills?
>
> If it costs millions of dollars, maybe.
>
>> Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.
>
> Be safe and nobody will have to search for you.

Stay in your apartment in Paris and no one will have to search for you
either.

There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unsafe on his
final flight.

[Benjamin Dover]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Kloudy via AviationKB.com writes:
>
>> Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
>> Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without
>> closure. In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda
>> suffering.
>
> There's still the matter of the greater good. The state went
> overboard looking for him, and that was very expensive. It's true
> that they should have probably asked for her consent if they planned
> to charge her for it.
>
>> Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I
>> bail in the hills?
>
> If it costs millions of dollars, maybe.
>
>> Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.
>
> Be safe and nobody will have to search for you.

You are a total ****ing retard Anthony. Put your head back up your ass and
inhale. That's all you're good for.

[george]

On May 3, 7:38 am, Benjamin Dover > wrote:

> You are a total ****ing retard Anthony. Put your head back up your ass and
> inhale. That's all you're good for.

If you remove the inhaling from the equation I'd agree.

The ****** gets off on ' There's still the matter of the greater
good. The state went overboard
looking for him, and that was very expensive. It's true that they
should have
probably asked for her consent if they planned to charge her for it. "

Stuff the 'greater good'

I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
come looking for me without regard for the beancounters

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601Xl Builder writes:

> There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unsafe on his
> final flight.

So? In any case, he may not have been unsafe, but he was clearly unwise.

[Mxsmanic]

george writes:

> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
> come looking for me without regard for the beancounters

So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money spent to
search for you? And you believe that taxpayers in general should pay the
infinitely high bill?

[Mxsmanic]

Shirl writes:

> It isn't as if they say to the spouse, "Hey, would you like us to go
> search for your husband?" and if she says no, they just leave a guy who
> might need rescuing out there, or if she says yes, she's responsible for
> the bill.

A third option would be to ask her if she wants to spend money on the search.
If the answer is no, the search is the same as it would be for any other
non-celebrity; if the answer is yes, the search is more extensive, and she
pays for the over-budget expenses.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Gig 601Xl Builder writes:
>
>> There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unsafe on his
>> final flight.
>
> So? In any case, he may not have been unsafe, but he was clearly unwise.
>

Nope,. wrong again


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> george writes:
>
>> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
>> come looking for me without regard for the beancounters
>
> So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money spent to
> search for you? And you believe that taxpayers in general should pay the
> infinitely high bill?
>

Depends, for me? of course. for you? not a chewing gum wrapper.


Bertie

[Shirl]

Shirl:
> > It isn't as if they say to the spouse, "Hey, would you like us to go
> > search for your husband?" and if she says no, they just leave a guy who
> > might need rescuing out there, or if she says yes, she's responsible for
> > the bill.

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> A third option would be to ask her if she wants to spend money on the search.
> If the answer is no, the search is the same as it would be for any other
> non-celebrity; if the answer is yes, the search is more extensive, and she
> pays for the over-budget expenses.

Didn't say those were options.
They search for missing people whether the spouse approves it or not.
Why should she be responsible for the bill?

[[email protected]]

Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Gig 601Xl Builder writes:

> > There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unsafe on his
> > final flight.

> So? In any case, he may not have been unsafe, but he was clearly unwise.

Only in your opinion that it is unwise to fly anything other than
a simulator.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Some Other Guy]

$687,000? That's outrageous!

I promise to not find him for half as much!

[[email protected]]

On May 2, 9:00 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote:
> Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
> >http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90982
>
> >CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Gov. Jim Gibbons intends to bill the widow of
> >missing multimillionaire adventurer Steve Fossett for $687,000 the state
> >spent in searching for the famed aviator last fall, a spokesman said.
>
> Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
> Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without closure.
> In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda suffering.
>
> Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I bail in
> the hills?
>
> Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.
>
> --
> Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1

I"m a CAP member, and I look forward to volunteering for the searches,
although I lament the need.
If I thought the state was going to bill someone, I'd rethink my
volunteer status.

I wonder if the feds billed the Kennedy family for the use of a
destroyer for a funeral....?

[[email protected]]

On May 2, 8:34*pm, wrote:
> On May 2, 9:00 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
> > >http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90982
>
> > >CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Gov. Jim Gibbons intends to bill the widow of
> > >missing multimillionaire adventurer Steve Fossett for $687,000 the state
> > >spent in searching for the famed aviator last fall, a spokesman said.
>
> > Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
> > Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without closure.
> > In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda suffering.
>
> > Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I bail in
> > the hills?
>
> > Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.
>
> > --
> > Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1
>
> I"m a CAP member, and I look forward to volunteering for the searches,
> although I lament the need.
> If I thought the state was going to bill someone, I'd rethink my
> volunteer status.
>
> I wonder if the feds billed the Kennedy family for the use of a
> destroyer for a funeral....?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We all wonder if the Kennedy family was billed for the satellite time
they used to look for traces, the submarines, the dozens of ships and
aircraft in the search mission, and god only knows what other taxpayer
funded assistance services they used. In a country where : "All men
are created equal", clearly all men are not. If I go missing I want
1/10 of what the did to look for Young Kennedy. .. Fat chance if
they do it though... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[K l e i n]

On May 2, 7:58*pm, Some Other Guy > wrote:
> $687,000? *That's outrageous!
>
> I promise to not find him for half as much!

Buy a SPOT. If you do, you can buy search and rescue insurance for up
to $100,000 in S&R expense including helicopter retrieval for $7.95/
year. And with the SPOT, they'll know where to come get you.
;-) www.findmespot.com

Just a happy customer.

K l e i n

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote

> I"m a CAP member, and I look forward to volunteering for the searches,
> although I lament the need.
> If I thought the state was going to bill someone, I'd rethink my
> volunteer status.
>
> I wonder if the feds billed the Kennedy family for the use of a
> destroyer for a funeral....?

No, and although I think I would not be in favor of charging for SAR, I do
understand where the sentiment is coming from.

How much would Nevada have spent looking for you or me, if we had disappeared in
exactly the same circumstances?

How about the same question in regard to how much the Navy would have spent
looking for and recovering the crashed plane of Robert Kennedy Jr. compared to
you or me?

Not even one percent of the money spent on these searches would have been spent
for our searches, even if you could get them to agree to unleash the kind of
resources they uncorked.

To be honest, the widow should have volunteered to pay for the search, before
she is ever charged, or at least a large portion of it.

JMHO. Your mileage could vary, and I can understand that side of the coin,
also.
--
Jim in NC

[Mxsmanic]

Shirl writes:

> Didn't say those were options.
> They search for missing people whether the spouse approves it or not.
> Why should she be responsible for the bill?

Not her, exactly, but the missing person's estate, but usually money from the
estate is money the widow will not receive.

The reason is that the state spends more or less on a search depending on how
important someone is. The average person is unimportant and the search is
short. But celebrities, politicians, millionaires, children, and cute women
(to cite a few groups) routinely receive far more attention than others, and
this costs the state a lot more. I think the inequality should be reimbursed
by the estate, in a country that likes to think of itself as providing
equality for all.

[Benjamin Dover]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Shirl writes:
>
>> Didn't say those were options.
>> They search for missing people whether the spouse approves it or not.
>> Why should she be responsible for the bill?
>
> Not her, exactly, but the missing person's estate, but usually money
> from the estate is money the widow will not receive.
>
> The reason is that the state spends more or less on a search depending
> on how important someone is. The average person is unimportant and
> the search is short. But celebrities, politicians, millionaires,
> children, and cute women (to cite a few groups) routinely receive far
> more attention than others, and this costs the state a lot more. I
> think the inequality should be reimbursed by the estate, in a country
> that likes to think of itself as providing equality for all.

In your case Anthony, the search wouldn't even last a picosecond.

[NW_Pilot]

And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked for
about 1/2 a day!

Miami - The first few hours of silence after Lori Love's plane disappeared
off west Africa were not too worrisome.

The "lone wolf," as she liked to call herself, did not like mid-air chatter.
She had asked for this solo flight through long stretches of sky not covered
by radar.

She exchanged a cheerful, routine radio transmission with another pilot
about an hour after taking off from Accra, Ghana, last Friday night, said
Steve Hall. A longtime friend, he had hired her to ferry a single-engine
Beechcraft from Florida to South Africa.

That was the last time anyone heard from Love. Ghana air traffic controllers
failed to establish contact with her about 15 minutes later. Her expected
arrival in Windhoek, Namibia, late Saturday morning passed without her
wheels touching down.

Most troubling: The ace pilot and skydiver never activated a handheld
emergency beacon that would have tipped rescuers to her location by GPS,
Hall said.

Search efforts from several African countries have stopped tracing her
expected flight path, failing for almost a week to find any sign of her
plane or her emergency raft, Hall said.

Love would not have taken off from the Ghanian capital if she had not been
confident her plane was fine, Hall said. A minor electrical problem in the
plane's alternator switch had been fixed during a brief layover in Accra,
and she had 18 hours of fuel to bridge the nearly 2,300 miles south to
Namibia.

"Something catastrophic must have happened," he said. It is not known
whether the electrical glitch resurfaced or if it was part of some fatal
problem.

"I'm just praying she will reappear and give me hell and say, 'You gave me a
lousy airplane,"' he said.

Expert in the air

If it flew, Love knew how to keep it in the air. The 57-year-old Wichita,
Kan., woman was certified to teach flying and skydiving, rig parachutes and
fly helicopters, gliders, single- and multi-engine planes that could touch
down on either land or sea, according to Federal Aviation Administration
records.

Never staying in one place too long, she logged 15,000 hours as a pilot and
completed 4,000 parachute jumps before a bad back made her give up skydiving
in 1999, her colleagues said. Love also ran her own airport in Alabama for
five years before feeling the itch to move again.

She kept her late 1970s Dodge Maxivan rolling, too - 555,000 miles and
counting, Hall said, tuned with a set of tools at least as old as the
vehicle.

"Everything I own is inside it," Love told a National Air and Space Museum
photographer for a 1997 book about women pilots. "I honestly thought by now
I would be tired of that lifestyle and be ready to settle down, but it hasn't
happened."

She had a couple scrapes: a brief marriage after college; a tangle with
power lines that dumped her crop duster upside-down in a cotton field.
Nothing she could not walk away from.

Love was not a daredevil child, but it was hard to keep her on the ground
once she picked up skydiving at Kansas University, said her father, Loren
Fred.

She once parachuted off a utility pole in Oklahoma, he recalled. She also
dropped tools from her helicopter to lumberjacks in Alaska and defied a
chauvinist crop duster in Arizona.

"He wasn't going to hire a woman pilot, but he consented to put her in a
plane and in the most difficult positions and see if she couldn't get out of
them," Fred said. "She did, and she got the job."

Love recalled in the book "Women and Flight" that she could not remember how
she figured out girls could fly; her family did not have a television, but
they would drive by the Wichita International Airport to see the taxiways
lit up at night.

She later learned that flying eased the strain of scoliosis on her back, her
father told The Associated Press.

"That was a relief, really," he said.

After years of moving around the country, Love settled for a time in
Gainesville to pursue a doctorate in special education at the University of
Florida. Three years ago, she gave up her studies and returned home to
Wichita to care for Fred, 95, when his health began to fail.

Love had just started ferrying planes again, commuting from Kansas to Tampa
whenever Hall had work for her. She wanted to make enough money so she could
take time off this winter to finally finish her dissertation, her father
said.

On her last job, she had hopscotched from Tampa to Maine, the Azores, the
Canary Islands and then Ghana over eight days. She wanted to make it to
Capetown, South Africa, in just one more jump after Ghana, but Hall
persuaded her to add the brief rest in Namibia. Heading there, she
disappeared.


"Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in message
m...
> http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90982
>
> CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Gov. Jim Gibbons intends to bill the widow of
> missing multimillionaire adventurer Steve Fossett for $687,000 the state
> spent in searching for the famed aviator last fall, a spokesman said.
>
>
> Gibbons spokesman Ben Kieckhefer told the Las Vegas Review-Journal it was
> his understanding that the governor will bill Peggy Fossett for costs of
> the unsuccessful search.
>
> Fossett, 63, took off Sept. 3 from Barron Hilton's Flying M Ranch, south
> of Yerington, in a small plane on what was supposed to be a short pleasure
> flight.
>
> During a monthlong search, ground crews, the Nevada National Guard and the
> Civil Air Patrol scoured a 20,000 square-mile area, but turned up no sign
> of Fossett or his plane.
>
> Hilton, the hotel magnate, later voluntarily sent the state a check
> $200,000 to cover some of the search costs.
>
> Fossett was declared legally dead Feb. 15 by an Illinois judge. In making
> that determination, Cook County Circuit Court Judge Jeffery Malak said
> Fossett left a "vast," eight-figure estate.
>
> Billing someone for the costs of a search is unusual.
>
> On Tuesday, before Kieckhefer revealed the governor's plans, state
> Emergency Management Director Frank Siracusa said state and local
> government search and rescue workers have a long-standing tradition of not
> charging when they hunt for missing persons, even for multimillionaires
> such as Steve Fossett.
>
> "We do not charge the rich or the poor," Siracusa said. "There is no
> precedent where government will go after people for costs just because
> they have money to pay for it. You get lost, and we look for you. It is a
> service your taxpayer dollars pay for."
>
> But Siracusa added that the final decision on whether Peggy Fossett would
> be billed rested with the governor, who since January has cut state
> spending to deal with a budget shortfall projected to top $900 million by
> mid-2009.
>
> The Fossetts lived part time in Beaver Creek.

[Mxsmanic]

NW_Pilot writes:

> And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked for
> about 1/2 a day!

Was she a celebrity, a millionaire, a politician, or a cute girl? Nope.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"NW_Pilot" > wrote in
:

> And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked
> for about 1/2 a day!

Why, cause she was white? Any idea of how many of their own die every day
directly or indirectly through poverty? Spending tens of thousands on a
search that had almost no chance of success wouldn't have been very
clever..



Bertie

[Morgans[_2_]]

"NW_Pilot" > wrote
...
> And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked for about
> 1/2 a day!

Sad story to hear. I hope she turns up, somehow. She sounds like quite a
character!

Do you have one of the Spot messenger/trackers?
<http://www.findmespot.com/AboutUs.aspx> It sounds like something that a ferry
pilot should not be without. The function of being able to tell where the
latest fix sent 10 minutes previous to being forced down (even if you were
disabled and unable to send a message, or your ELT did not go off) would give
searchers a place to start looking. As far as that goes, it looks like
something every pilot should consider owning and using.

I wonder why it says it will not work in much of Africa? It might not have not
done any good, in this case.
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Dohm]

> wrote in message
...
> On May 2, 9:00 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote:
>> Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>> >http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90982
>>
>> >CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Gov. Jim Gibbons intends to bill the widow of
>> >missing multimillionaire adventurer Steve Fossett for $687,000 the state
>> >spent in searching for the famed aviator last fall, a spokesman said.
>>
>> Jeez. Ain't it enough she lost her husband?
>> Worse than that, she'll probably never know how,when or why without
>> closure.
>> In my experience that sets folks up for some special kinda suffering.
>>
>> Sure Fossett was wealthy but is my wife gonna get a bill for SAR if I
>> bail in
>> the hills?
>>
>> Joe Bob don't like it...nope not one little bit.
>>
>> --
>> Message posted via
>> AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1
>
> I"m a CAP member, and I look forward to volunteering for the searches,
> although I lament the need.
> If I thought the state was going to bill someone, I'd rethink my
> volunteer status.
>
> I wonder if the feds billed the Kennedy family for the use of a
> destroyer for a funeral....?

IMHO, the real point here is that officials of the the state of Nevada made
a bad decision in the specific case, and now the governor wants to single
out a specific citizen to pay for it. The economic status of anyone
involved can not justify such a thing, it is simply wrong and requires
correction--for which we hold elections from time to time.

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

"Morgans" > wrote:

>Do you have one of the Spot messenger/trackers?
><http://www.findmespot.com/AboutUs.aspx> It sounds like something that a ferry
>pilot should not be without. The function of being able to tell where the
>latest fix sent 10 minutes previous to being forced down (even if you were
>disabled and unable to send a message, or your ELT did not go off) would give
>searchers a place to start looking. As far as that goes, it looks like
>something every pilot should consider owning and using.
>
>I wonder why it says it will not work in much of Africa? It might not have not
>done any good, in this case.
>--
>Jim in NC
>

Get a 406 MHz PLB with integrated GPS. Should work worldwide.

One example:

http://tinyurl.com/66j6gr

Ron Lee

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ron Lee" > wrote

> Get a 406 MHz PLB with integrated GPS. Should work worldwide.

The only problem I see with that, is if you crash or have a midair (or something
else totally unexpected) and it fails to go off, or gets destroyed, or the
antenna gets ripped off (or one of the other dozen things that keep it from
going off) nobody is going to have any idea where to start looking.

If you have the spot finder, and have someone that can access the tracking
function, SAR will have a place to start looking, even if it (or you) are unable
to transmit with an ELT or the spot finder.

Add to that all of the things that the spot can do with it's messaging
functions, and you have a unit that can do lots of things that an ELT can never
do.

It seems like the spot finder can be a good supplement for communications while
traveling, when a cell phone can't work.

All I'm saying is that for some people, this seems like a remarkable gizzmo.
YMMV.

Unless, of course, you happen to be in South Africa. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[NW_Pilot]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "NW_Pilot" > wrote in
> :
>
>> And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked
>> for about 1/2 a day!
>
> Why, cause she was white? Any idea of how many of their own die every day
> directly or indirectly through poverty? Spending tens of thousands on a
> search that had almost no chance of success wouldn't have been very
> clever..
>
>
>
> Bertie

No it's because she was not one of the beutiful people (Wealthy)! I have
meet 3 people that have been recoverd from the drink..... our govermrnt has
bases over there that could have assisted in a search. When Fossett could
have paid for his own search. At least she had locator beacons and survival
equipment with her.

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

"Morgans" > wrote:

>
>"Ron Lee" > wrote
>
>> Get a 406 MHz PLB with integrated GPS. Should work worldwide.
>
>The only problem I see with that, is if you crash or have a midair (or something
>else totally unexpected) and it fails to go off, or gets destroyed, or the
>antenna gets ripped off (or one of the other dozen things that keep it from
>going off) nobody is going to have any idea where to start looking.

All valid points. My PLB will be activated in air if possible if the
engine quits. I use flight following.

An APRS provides the track functionality of Spot and no cost once you
get the equipment.

http://tinyurl.com/624vv6

Any of these solutions are likely far better than your standard 121.5
MHz ELT

Ron Lee

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"NW_Pilot" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "NW_Pilot" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked
>>> for about 1/2 a day!
>>
>> Why, cause she was white? Any idea of how many of their own die every
>> day directly or indirectly through poverty? Spending tens of
>> thousands on a search that had almost no chance of success wouldn't
>> have been very clever..
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> No it's because she was not one of the beutiful people (Wealthy)!


You misunderstand me. Why should they look for her? They have problems
of their own.



Bertie

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-05-04, Ron Lee > wrote:
> An APRS provides the track functionality of Spot and no cost once you
> get the equipment.
> http://tinyurl.com/624vv6

Well, you also have to get a ham license (but don't let that stop you; it
only takes a written test these days, and it's easier than the PPL written).
However, there's another detail: you need to be in range of a node that
feeds the APRS network. I don't do APRS myself, but I understand the
coverage is widespread but not universal. Then again, if you're airborne,
getting into the network at altitude is probably pretty easy unless you're
over the Rockies or other very-low-population-density areas.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Ron Lee[_2_]]

Jay Maynard > wrote:

>On 2008-05-04, Ron Lee > wrote:
>> An APRS provides the track functionality of Spot and no cost once you
>> get the equipment.
>> http://tinyurl.com/624vv6
>
>Well, you also have to get a ham license (but don't let that stop you; it
>only takes a written test these days, and it's easier than the PPL written).
>However, there's another detail: you need to be in range of a node that
>feeds the APRS network. I don't do APRS myself, but I understand the
>coverage is widespread but not universal. Then again, if you're airborne,
>getting into the network at altitude is probably pretty easy unless you're.....

I took the ham test on 13 April and got 100%. Another pilot with an
APRS unit took a trip from the Denver CO area to Page AZ (over the
Rockies and remote areas). Fairly good coverage for that trip and the
antenna was probably not optimal and he had the 300 mW transmitter.
There is an 8 Watt unit.

I will probably get one soon

All these systems have pros and cons. Spot won't activate in the
event of a crash just as my PLB won't and the ELT may not. Spot may
only transmit positions every 15 minutes which is too far apart for my
aircraft.

APRS does not exactly have a 911 function but the secondary
configuration could be set up to annotate an emergency. In addition,
the developers of one unit "may" allow for more message types which
could include everything Spot has and more...configurable by the
owner.

Ron Lee

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> george writes:
>
>> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
>> come looking for me without regard for the beancounters
>
> So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money spent to
> search for you? And you believe that taxpayers in general should pay the
> infinitely high bill?


Since Nevada has never charged for SAR, even to the very wealthy, if
they are going to start charging they really ought to tell people and
with something along the lines of, "If SAR experience exceeds $X, the
lost individual, their family and or estate will be charged."

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Gig 601Xl Builder writes:
>
>> There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unsafe on his
>> final flight.
>
> So? In any case, he may not have been unsafe, but he was clearly unwise.

So? How the hell do you say, "So?" You said he did something unsafe. You
can't back that up so now you say it was unwise. So I will modify my
statement.

There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unwase on his
final flight.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

NW_Pilot wrote:
> And Who Went looking for Lori Love????? The African countries looked for
> about 1/2 a day!
>

What do you expect? It was Africa.

[Peter Dohm]

"Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in message
m...
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> Gig 601Xl Builder writes:
>>
>>> There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unsafe on his
>>> final flight.
>>
>> So? In any case, he may not have been unsafe, but he was clearly unwise.
>
> So? How the hell do you say, "So?" You said he did something unsafe. You
> can't back that up so now you say it was unwise. So I will modify my
> statement.
>
> There is no evidence that Fossett did anything that was unwase on his
> final flight.

All of which brings us back to an earlier thread regarding Mxsmanic and his
seemingly on-topic contributions. At that time, the debate At that time,
the discussion centered on two issues: 1) whether Mxsmanic was a Troll and
2) whether possible confusion by new pilots and students made it essential
to debate him. I now submit that he is, in fact, the most successfull Troll
that this group had ever seen. However, there is an interesting twist in
that this Troll quite successfully preys upon the senior members of the
group, rather than the newbies!

Thus, I hereby challenge you in the collective sense, not just the
immediately previous contributor: conduct a quick search on the subjects of
Internet Troll and Usenet Troll, and read the short but entertaining history
of the subject. Wiki, in particular, has a great article.

Then, when your research is complete, I have a humble suggestion: When one
of Mxsmanic's contributions seems to require a response, flip a coin at
least three times and only respond if it comes up tails every time.

Peter

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sat, 3 May 2008 00:25:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>Mxsmanic > wrote in
:
>
>> george writes:
>>
>>> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
>>> come looking for me without regard for the beancounters
>>
>> So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money spent to
>> search for you? And you believe that taxpayers in general should pay the
>> infinitely high bill?
>>
>
>Depends, for me? of course. for you? not a chewing gum wrapper.
>
>
>Bertie

Australia once spent $4million dollars rescuing a lone sailor in an
upturned boat off antarctica. We didnt bill him.
....of course that was when we had a decent government not the clueless
****** labor beancounters we have now.

Stealth Pilot

[WingFlaps]

On May 6, 2:24*am, Stealth Pilot >
wrote:
> On Sat, 3 May 2008 00:25:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Mxsmanic > wrote in
> :
>
> >> george writes:
>
> >>> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
> >>> come looking for me without regard for the beancounters
>
> >> So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money spent to
> >> search for you? *And you believe that taxpayers in general should pay the
> >> infinitely high bill?
>
> >Depends, for me? of course. for you? not a chewing gum wrapper.
>
> >Bertie
>
> Australia once spent $4million dollars rescuing a lone sailor in an
> upturned boat off antarctica. We didnt bill him.
> ...of course that was when we had a decent government not the clueless
> ****** labor beancounters we have now.
>

A growing bureacracy always needs more money to pay for itself.

Cheers

[gatt[_3_]]

Some Other Guy wrote:
> $687,000? That's outrageous!
>
> I promise to not find him for half as much!


That probably shouldn't be as funny as it is.

At Mt. Bachelor, in Oregon, they tell you the starting hourly search and
rescue fee if you leave the marked ski perimeter. I've always wondered
if it's no coincidence that they're always searching for people on Mt.
Hood, but not Bachelor.

But unless they actually -find- his body, if I were her I'd probably
tell them where the governor where to shove his bill.

-c

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Peter Dohm" > wrote:

> Then, when your research is complete, I have a humble suggestion: When one
> of Mxsmanic's contributions seems to require a response, flip a coin at
> least three times and only respond if it comes up tails every time.

may I suggestion a response only if it lands on the edge every time?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Peter Dohm]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Peter Dohm" > wrote:
>
>> Then, when your research is complete, I have a humble suggestion: When
>> one
>> of Mxsmanic's contributions seems to require a response, flip a coin at
>> least three times and only respond if it comes up tails every time.
>
> may I suggestion a response only if it lands on the edge every time?
>
> --
> Bob Noel

Even better, but that's just too much to hope for!

Peter

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:

> On Sat, 3 May 2008 00:25:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
>>Mxsmanic > wrote in
:
>>
>>> george writes:
>>>
>>>> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue
>>>> would come looking for me without regard for the beancounters
>>>
>>> So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money
>>> spent to search for you? And you believe that taxpayers in general
>>> should pay the infinitely high bill?
>>>
>>
>>Depends, for me? of course. for you? not a chewing gum wrapper.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>
> Australia once spent $4million dollars rescuing a lone sailor in an
> upturned boat off antarctica. We didnt bill him.
> ...of course that was when we had a decent government not the clueless
> ****** labor beancounters we have now.
>

I remember that guy. Thing is, though I would like them to come for me,
how many deaths could they have prevented for that much money?
If oyu had 4,000,000 in your hand and you could save either one nutter
in a dinghy or save 1,000 from starvation...?



Bertie


Bertie

[Big John]

On Sat, 03 May 2008 08:49:56 +0200, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>Shirl writes:
>
>> Didn't say those were options.
>> They search for missing people whether the spouse approves it or not.
>> Why should she be responsible for the bill?
>
>Not her, exactly, but the missing person's estate, but usually money from the
>estate is money the widow will not receive.
>
>The reason is that the state spends more or less on a search depending on how
>important someone is. The average person is unimportant and the search is
>short. But celebrities, politicians, millionaires, children, and cute women
>(to cite a few groups) routinely receive far more attention than others, and
>this costs the state a lot more. I think the inequality should be reimbursed
>by the estate, in a country that likes to think of itself as providing
>equality for all.

**************************************
I can see why Bertie has a problem with you.

You step in where you don't know your A** from a hole in the ground.

Big John

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Mon, 5 May 2008 10:08:36 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
> wrote:


>
>All of which brings us back to an earlier thread regarding Mxsmanic and his
>seemingly on-topic contributions. At that time, the debate At that time,
>the discussion centered on two issues: 1) whether Mxsmanic was a Troll and
>2) whether possible confusion by new pilots and students made it essential
>to debate him. I now submit that he is, in fact, the most successfull Troll
>that this group had ever seen. However, there is an interesting twist in
>that this Troll quite successfully preys upon the senior members of the
>group, rather than the newbies!
>

there is an interesting aspect to his seeming inability to ever learn.

there is a psychiatric condition caused by some faulty wiring in the
brain which had at one time the description of alexithymia.
it is supposedly faulty connectivity between the corpus calosum and
the areas of higher intellect.

one aspect of the condition is the physical inability to differentiate
between visual images processed from different sources. if one source
is reality and another source is a simulator the processing that goes
through these brains has no differentiation. both are seen as a real
experience.

there are days when I'd swear that this kid has the problem.

the only solution to this pestilence does not involve coins.
coventry is the answer.

Stealth Pilot

[WingFlaps]

On May 7, 1:06*am, Stealth Pilot >
wrote:
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 10:08:36 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
>
> > wrote:
>
> >All of which brings us back to an earlier thread regarding Mxsmanic and his
> >seemingly on-topic contributions. *At that time, the debate At that time,
> >the discussion centered on two issues: *1) whether Mxsmanic was a Troll and
> >2) whether possible confusion by new pilots and students made it essential
> >to debate him. *I now submit that he is, in fact, the most successfull Troll
> >that this group had ever seen. *However, there is an interesting twist in
> >that this Troll quite successfully preys upon the senior members of the
> >group, rather than the newbies!
>
> there is an interesting aspect to his seeming inability to ever learn.
>
> there is a psychiatric condition caused by some faulty wiring in the
> brain which had at one time the description of alexithymia.
> it is supposedly faulty connectivity between the corpus calosum and
> the areas of higher intellect.
>
> one aspect of the condition is the physical inability to differentiate
> between visual images processed from different sources. if one source
> is reality and another source is a simulator the processing that goes
> through these brains has no differentiation. both are seen as a real
> experience.
>
> there are days when I'd swear that this kid has the problem.
>

I've not heard of this imagery problem -I thought alexithymia was to
do with having problems expressing emotions. Have you got a reference
I can look it up in?

Cheers

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601Xl Builder writes:

> So? How the hell do you say, "So?"

Because he's dead either way.

[Mxsmanic]

Bertie the Bunyip writes:

> I remember that guy. Thing is, though I would like them to come for me,
> how many deaths could they have prevented for that much money?
> If oyu had 4,000,000 in your hand and you could save either one nutter
> in a dinghy or save 1,000 from starvation...?

Four million dollars can save the lives of about 16 million children.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Big John" > wrote

> I can see why Bertie has a problem with you.
>
> You step in where you don't know your A** from a hole in the ground.

You do realize that he has declared himself to be an expert, in the breast
feeding forum, don't you?

He goes so far past what a normal person would put up with in person, I don't
understand why people here put up with him, and enable him by responding to his
idiocy.
--
Jim in NC

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip writes:
>
>> I remember that guy. Thing is, though I would like them to come for me,
>> how many deaths could they have prevented for that much money?
>> If oyu had 4,000,000 in your hand and you could save either one nutter
>> in a dinghy or save 1,000 from starvation...?
>
> Four million dollars can save the lives of about 16 million children.
>

Still wouldn['t be enough to save you, though.


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On May 5, 8:32 am, Gig 601Xl Builder >
wrote:
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > george writes:
>
> >> I'd like to know that if I ever went down the Search and Rescue would
> >> come looking for me without regard for the beancounters
>
> > So you think that no cap should be placed on the amount of money spent to
> > search for you? And you believe that taxpayers in general should pay the
> > infinitely high bill?
>
> Since Nevada has never charged for SAR, even to the very wealthy, if
> they are going to start charging they really ought to tell people and
> with something along the lines of, "If SAR experience exceeds $X, the
> lost individual, their family and or estate will be charged."

Perhaps charge on a sliding scale as a percentage of net worth. Net
worth to be multiplied by the number of Usenet postings perhaps....

;-)