glider simulators

[Phillip LaBerge]

Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
appreciated.
Phillip LaBerge

[Randy[_2_]]

I would highly recommend Condor The Competition Soaring Simulator.
http://condorsoaring.com/

Randy

[Paul Remde]

Hi Phillip,

I highly recommend Condor. I am just now setting up my web page for Condor.
It will be available on my web site in a day or 2.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Phillip LaBerge" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
> have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
> programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
> the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
> appreciated.
> Phillip LaBerge

[Shawn[_5_]]

Phillip LaBerge wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
> have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
> programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
> the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
> appreciated.
> Phillip LaBerge

+1 Condor. There are a few other good soaring sims out there, but
Condor has the largest support community, and seems to have the best
online racing as well. As I understand it, Condor runs well on
computers with integrated graphics and doesn't require a dedicated
graphics card for acceptable performance. FIY, I run it on an Intel
iMac running XP, with great results.

Shawn

[noel.wade]

I'm an IT professional by day, so I'm _almost_ as obsessed about
technological things as I am about flying. :-)

I've also been playing with various consumer-level flight simulators
since I was 8 years old (22 years of experience).

I tried just about every soaring simulator out there over the last 2 -
3 years, and Condor is far and away the best!

Take care,

--Noel
P.S. I have found that the few people that don't like Condor never
took the time to properly configure their joystick or the graphics -
so the program never ran well, or the planes were too hard to control.

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Phillip LaBerge wrote:
>Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop?
>Phillip LaBerge

Condor.

And it was made by just a couple of cats in Slovenia.
Go figger.

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I have finally added the Condor Competition Soaring Simulator for PC to my
web site. You can see details here:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/condor.htm

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Phillip LaBerge" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
> have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
> programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
> the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
> appreciated.
> Phillip LaBerge

[Bill Daniels]

"Paul Remde" > wrote in message
news:OebTj.94761$TT4.38992@attbi_s22...
> Hi,
>
> I have finally added the Condor Competition Soaring Simulator for PC to my
> web site. You can see details here:
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/condor.htm
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> "Phillip LaBerge" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
>> have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
>> programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
>> the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
>> appreciated.
>> Phillip LaBerge
>
>

Cool, Paul

Now, please add your usual expertise to computer preipherals used with
Condor like force feedback control sticks and rudder pedals. There's a
whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator. A
simple, inexpensive chair/cockpit system would be very welcome.

Bill Daniels

[Tony Verhulst]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> ... There's a
> whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.


Would those hobbyists have web sites?

Tony V

[Colin Field[_3_]]

On May 4, 7:37*am, "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
> "Paul Remde" > wrote in message
>
> news:OebTj.94761$TT4.38992@attbi_s22...

> > Hi,
>
> > I have finally added the Condor Competition Soaring Simulator for PC to my
> > web site. *You can see details here:
> >http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/condor.htm
>
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
> >http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>

Looks good Paul- however, I notice that Condor's main page (which you
appear to have taken the text, photos and movies from) has not been
updated for a while. You may want to browse through the forum (which I
am a member of) and take a look at the new-style sceneries such as
Slovakia v3 and Alpi v3, which have had an incredible amount of work
put into them and nearly match the realism of the MSFS sceneries.
There's also a thread of Best Screenshots with some remarkable
pictures (realistic as well as crazy), and a fair few films on YouTube
showing people racing in multiplayer, or simply having fun. Have a
look here: http://forum.condorsoaring.com

Plane Pack 2 is also being developed, which includes 3 2-seat gliders
implying that very soon we'll be able to fly 2-up, making way for a
multiplayer flight school or simply a mutual cross-country. There's a
lot of other features hinted at being in the pipeline including SLMGs
and even more advanced weather.

Keep up the great work!

[sisu1a]

On May 4, 6:57 am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> Bill Daniels wrote:
> > ... There's a
> > whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.
>
> Would those hobbyists have web sites?
>
> Tony V

Here's one for starters: (major link reconstruction needed; not a
glider cockpit, but...)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.simprojects.nl/images/FS_complete.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.simprojects.nl/flight_stick.htm&h=640&w=480&sz=74&hl=en&start=3&sig2=WoiHtUkcx2b21kwyea5Jkw&um=1&tbnid=VLw38-zcE6SdNM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=103&ei=S87AR4_uIqfOpgSRtp3XDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbest%2Bflightstick%2Bwith%2Bfeedback% 26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG

I have been working on a related project, to use one's own sailplane
as a cockpit for a simulator, with one's own instruments/controls.
What I am designing is a piece of hardware that will generate the
associated dynamic/static/TE/and capacity pressure values that would
exist during "in flight" conditions (Condor outputs standard sim
signals which could easily be translated into their associated
pressure values). These pressures can be fed to an actual instrument
panel, making the instruments read correct for their given simulated
condition quite effectively. Since Condor also outputs NEMA data,
flight computers/nav hardware can also be active. This will be used in
conjunction with little (sugar cube sized) independent self powered
pizeo gyros with bluetooth (or some other sort of RF) transmitting
capabilities that would each be placed on the extremities of all the
cockpit controls. The transmitted signals would all be received by a
device that would be converting the gyro's movements into standard
simulator control inputs that would be fed back into Condor for your
flight inputs.

To make clear my project goals in case it's still vague: I want to be
able to use my own glider with it's controls and instruments to fly on
the simulator. This wold be achieved by pulling the plane into the
"drive in theater" (a screen on a large wall with a projector set up)
and connect the pneumatic interface to my plane's pneumatic system and
put the pizeo gyros described above on their respective controls. Go
through a calibration sequence to define the full movements of the
controls, buckle in and begin checklist...Once this is closer to being
finished I will also work on the feedback issue, which I already have
several ideas. This glider in this setup could easily be changed to
another ship so long as flight data for it exists on Condor (very easy
if it already has a Winter quick pneumatic disconnect plug...) If
anyone that reads this finds it intriguing and would like to help, pm
me.

Paul

[noel.wade]

I wrote a nice response but can't seem to post it... I'll keep
trying...

--Noel

[noel.wade]

Sorry for multiple posts - Google isn't telling me why it won't post
my response so I'm breaking it into pieces to find out what's causing
the problem
----------

The Forums on the Condor website area great source of info for this
stuff!

Force feedback controls are only marginally useful, IMHO.

Any standard joystick with a few buttons is plenty good enough. I
_strongly_ recommend against getting a "twist" joystick, as
controlling a glider with one of those is too distracting (and can
introduce bad habits).

I also strongly advise people to go out and buy a set of CH Pro Pedals
for rudder control (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/pedals.html).
They're not cheap (~$150), but they'll last a lifetime and are very
precise. Use them along with a simple joystick and you're all set for
some great Condor flying.

[noel.wade]

Joystick features that are nice to have: A "hat" for view control,
and a "throttle" control for moving the spoilers. I also like a
joystick with at least 5 or 6 buttons (so I can put flap and trim
controls on the joystick).

Optional extra for the technologically advanced: NaturalPoint
"TrackIR" (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/). This is an infrared
camera that you put on your computer monitor. It watches a reflective
head-band or headset-clip that you wear, and uses your head movements
to let you "look around" freely.

I recommend people get comfortable with Condor first before adding
this layer of complexity and configuration - but once you get used to
it, its nice! I mean, how many times in a flight simulator have you
wished that you could just turn your head a little to keep an eye on
the runway threshold out the side of the airplane while on downwind or
turning base? This lets you do that effortlessly (and so much more).
But it does take some work to set up and fine-tune for your individual
tastes - so start with the joystick "hat" and then progress to this if
you want.

Take care,

--Noel
(PIlot and former computer-game developer)

P.S. I also recommend a wide-screen LCD monitor. Human vision is
attuned to wide peripheral vision and standard screens don't do a poor
job of matching the eye. Even a small (17" or 19") wide-screen
monitor is an improvement over a medium-sized "standard" monitor, when
it comes to simulating movement.

[noel.wade]

On May 4, 9:03 am, "noel.wade" > wrote:

> P.S. I also recommend a wide-screen LCD monitor. Human vision is
> attuned to wide peripheral vision and standard screens don't do a poor
> job of matching the eye. Even a small (17" or 19") wide-screen

Gah, correction: Standard screens _don't do a GOOD job_ of matching
the eye... :-P

--Noel

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> ... There's a whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this
>> simulator.
>
>
> Would those hobbyists have web sites?
>
>

There is a forum on the Condor web site devoted to "cockpit builders"

http://forum.condorsoaring.com/viewforum.php?f=14

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Tony Verhulst]

sisu1a wrote:
> On May 4, 6:57 am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
>> Bill Daniels wrote:
>>> ... There's a
>>> whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.
>> Would those hobbyists have web sites?
>>
>> Tony V
>
> Here's one for starters: (major link reconstruction needed; not a
> glider cockpit, but...)
> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.simprojects.nl/images/FS_complete.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.simprojects.nl/flight_stick.htm&h=640&w=480&sz=74&hl=en&start=3&sig2=WoiHtUkcx2b21kwyea5Jkw&um=1&tbnid=VLw38-zcE6SdNM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=103&ei=S87AR4_uIqfOpgSRtp3XDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbest%2Bflightstick%2Bwith%2Bfeedback% 26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG


My club has an L23 fuselage wreck and we're in the planning stage of
chopping off all abaft the rear cockpit, hooking the controls up to
Condor (or something similar) and projecting local scenery on screens
around the cockpit. Something like Cambridge (UK) has done.

Tony V.
http://soargbsc.com

[Bill Daniels]

Hey, Paul

If you get that pitot/static airdata air pump thingy working, I'd like to
hear about it. It would be a really great way to learn to use a new
vario/flight computer.

Bill D

"sisu1a" > wrote in message
...
> On May 4, 6:57 am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
>> Bill Daniels wrote:
>> > ... There's a
>> > whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.
>>
>> Would those hobbyists have web sites?
>>
>> Tony V
>
> Here's one for starters: (major link reconstruction needed; not a
> glider cockpit, but...)
> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.simprojects.nl/images/FS_complete.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.simprojects.nl/flight_stick.htm&h=640&w=480&sz=74&hl=en&start=3&sig2=WoiHtUkcx2b21kwyea5Jkw&um=1&tbnid=VLw38-zcE6SdNM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=103&ei=S87AR4_uIqfOpgSRtp3XDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbest%2Bflightstick%2Bwith%2Bfeedback% 26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG
>
> I have been working on a related project, to use one's own sailplane
> as a cockpit for a simulator, with one's own instruments/controls.
> What I am designing is a piece of hardware that will generate the
> associated dynamic/static/TE/and capacity pressure values that would
> exist during "in flight" conditions (Condor outputs standard sim
> signals which could easily be translated into their associated
> pressure values). These pressures can be fed to an actual instrument
> panel, making the instruments read correct for their given simulated
> condition quite effectively. Since Condor also outputs NEMA data,
> flight computers/nav hardware can also be active. This will be used in
> conjunction with little (sugar cube sized) independent self powered
> pizeo gyros with bluetooth (or some other sort of RF) transmitting
> capabilities that would each be placed on the extremities of all the
> cockpit controls. The transmitted signals would all be received by a
> device that would be converting the gyro's movements into standard
> simulator control inputs that would be fed back into Condor for your
> flight inputs.
>
> To make clear my project goals in case it's still vague: I want to be
> able to use my own glider with it's controls and instruments to fly on
> the simulator. This wold be achieved by pulling the plane into the
> "drive in theater" (a screen on a large wall with a projector set up)
> and connect the pneumatic interface to my plane's pneumatic system and
> put the pizeo gyros described above on their respective controls. Go
> through a calibration sequence to define the full movements of the
> controls, buckle in and begin checklist...Once this is closer to being
> finished I will also work on the feedback issue, which I already have
> several ideas. This glider in this setup could easily be changed to
> another ship so long as flight data for it exists on Condor (very easy
> if it already has a Winter quick pneumatic disconnect plug...) If
> anyone that reads this finds it intriguing and would like to help, pm
> me.
>
> Paul

[sisu1a]

On May 4, 3:44 pm, "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
> Hey, Paul
>
> If you get that pitot/static airdata air pump thingy working, I'd like to
> hear about it. It would be a really great way to learn to use a new
> vario/flight computer.

Hi Bill,

I joined the Condor group and posted my thoughts on the subject in a
little more detail on the cockpit builder's forum (then had to update
my post after reading your original post on the subject...) On the
Condor forum I saw your original inquiry as to an interface device to
turn sim signals into the correct pressures (to enable the use real
pneumatic instruments for a sim/etc) seemed to be abandoned due to
'perceived' difficulties in achieving the correct pressures since they
were dubbed too small to be precisely controlled. I do not see this as
a problem, but an asset. Rather than the pump idea (which does seem
problematic) my proposed system is based on C-N-C controlled (via ball
screw lead) plungers. Since the values are rather small, rather small
components are required to build it. It is actually quite easy to make
extremely small and precise pressure changes with a plunger, and with
a pressure transducer feedback loop will remain exactly on desired
target.

I fully agree that this would be a great way to test out new
instruments and such in addition to being a damn fun sim tool! If
coupled to Condor, (or other soaring sims with NEMA outputs?) even
complicated flight computers could be tricked into going through all
their functions, although some may also require tricking the compass
as well (a C-N-C controlled steel bar to generate a "false north" in
axis around heading sensor if so equipped?). I'll definitely share
when I have more to tell.

Paul Hanson

[Sergio]

On May 2, 10:09*am, Phillip LaBerge > wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
> have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
> programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
> the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
> appreciated.
> Phillip LaBerge


I've tried Microsoft, Silent Wings and a German one whose name I
forgot. Condor is by far the best, and getting better each day.
I use a force feedback joystick, pedals, a reclined seat in front of a
60" screen. It is almost like the real thing.

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

"noel.wade" > wrote in message
...
> Joystick features that are nice to have: A "hat" for view control,
> and a "throttle" control for moving the spoilers. I also like a
> joystick with at least 5 or 6 buttons (so I can put flap and trim
> controls on the joystick).
>
> Optional extra for the technologically advanced: NaturalPoint
> "TrackIR" (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/). This is an infrared
> camera that you put on your computer monitor. It watches a reflective
> head-band or headset-clip that you wear, and uses your head movements
> to let you "look around" freely.
>


..... so while you are looking at the wall instead of your wingtip, someone
else in the room can see what you ought to be looking at?

This would only be useful if you have Circlorama screens (whatever happened
to Circlorama?) or a pair of VR glasses.
:-)

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

You would think so, I asked the same question to a user. He said that the
IR units work OK with a single monitor. You can turn your head a little to
the left and keep your eyes on the screen. It doesn't seem like it would
work well to me, but it supposedly works better then you would think.

Paul Remde

"Peter Wyld" > wrote in message
...
>
> "noel.wade" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Joystick features that are nice to have: A "hat" for view control,
>> and a "throttle" control for moving the spoilers. I also like a
>> joystick with at least 5 or 6 buttons (so I can put flap and trim
>> controls on the joystick).
>>
>> Optional extra for the technologically advanced: NaturalPoint
>> "TrackIR" (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/). This is an infrared
>> camera that you put on your computer monitor. It watches a reflective
>> head-band or headset-clip that you wear, and uses your head movements
>> to let you "look around" freely.
>>
>
>
> .... so while you are looking at the wall instead of your wingtip, someone
> else in the room can see what you ought to be looking at?
>
> This would only be useful if you have Circlorama screens (whatever
> happened to Circlorama?) or a pair of VR glasses.
> :-)
>

[noel.wade]

> > .... so while you are looking at the wall instead of your wingtip, someone
> > else in the room can see what you ought to be looking at?

The TrackIR amplifies your head movements. So a tiny turn of your
head can equate to looking out the side of the aircraft in the
simulator. Its a little odd at first to keep your eyes on the screen
while you turn your head - but if you set the amplification rate up to
the right level its really not a problem (we're talking maybe 5 or 10
degrees of head movement) - just takes about 5 minutes to get used
to.

Check out the demo videos on the NaturalPoint website.

Also note that I *do* state its best to get comfortable with the
simulator and everything before adding this piece. But the ability to
easily look around adds a lot if you have the patience to set it up
properly.

On a slightly different note: I have done a lot of experimenting and
found that longtime pilots have a *much* harder time with simulators
than new pilots. After doing some unscientific research and gathering
feedback, I have come to believe that pilots who have flown for a long
time and never used a simulator get easily frustrated by the lack of
physical / kinesthetic feedback, and the lack of familiarity of flying
over strange terrain in a strange glider. They're so used to
"feeling" the aircraft and flying in their local airspace with known
references that they have a hard time just flying the plane based on
the sight-picture and the instruments and the visible angles to the
ground. Becuase they're so used to being good pilots flying in a
skilled manner, having a hard time in the simulator tends to frustrate
and/or embarrass these experienced pilots - and as a result they have
a dislike or disdain for the simulator.

Take care,

--Noel

[noel.wade]

Here's a demo of the TrackIR and explains how it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AO0F5sLdVM

--Noel
P.S. Condor doesn't fully support "6 degrees of freedom" like they
talk about. But it does support looking up, down, left, and right.

[Michael Ash]

noel.wade > wrote:
> On a slightly different note: I have done a lot of experimenting and
> found that longtime pilots have a *much* harder time with simulators
> than new pilots. After doing some unscientific research and gathering
> feedback, I have come to believe that pilots who have flown for a long
> time and never used a simulator get easily frustrated by the lack of
> physical / kinesthetic feedback, and the lack of familiarity of flying
> over strange terrain in a strange glider. They're so used to
> "feeling" the aircraft and flying in their local airspace with known
> references that they have a hard time just flying the plane based on
> the sight-picture and the instruments and the visible angles to the
> ground. Becuase they're so used to being good pilots flying in a
> skilled manner, having a hard time in the simulator tends to frustrate
> and/or embarrass these experienced pilots - and as a result they have
> a dislike or disdain for the simulator.

I've had a similar experience to this, except sort of backwards.

I used to do a lot of flying in X-Plane, in all kinds of different
aircraft. (X-Plane isn't really the best at simulating anything, but it
simulates almost everything, which is its big advantage.) I was pretty
good at it, although I'm sure I did a lot of non-standard things. And in
fact flying the gliders in X-Plane is one of the things that got me into
real soaring. I had a lot of fun doing crazy things in the simulator, then
thought, hey, this is something I could actually enjoy in real life.

I don't use X-Plane that much anymore. Somehow doing regular flying in
reality makes the sim seem less fun than it once was....

But I still fire it up on occasion. And the thing that always amuses me
when I do is that I'm really *bad* at it. Even flying gliders, even flying
types that I fly in reality, in locations that I fly in reality, I
totally stink up the place.

Part of this is because my controls setup is very poor. I didn't put in
very much money at all, so the result reflects that. But I used the same
controls before and was much better! I certainly have trouble with the
lack of physical feedback, poor control feel, and narrow field of view,
even though I was more or less fine with them before.

In the end they're just two different skills. You can make them closer by
putting in more money to have a better setup, but it still ends up being
different skills. An experienced pilot who jumps into a sim thinking that
he should be able to instantly master it will likely be disappointed
because of this.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Bill Daniels]

"noel.wade" > wrote in message
...
>
>> > .... so while you are looking at the wall instead of your wingtip,
>> > someone
>> > else in the room can see what you ought to be looking at?
>
> The TrackIR amplifies your head movements. So a tiny turn of your
> head can equate to looking out the side of the aircraft in the
> simulator. Its a little odd at first to keep your eyes on the screen
> while you turn your head - but if you set the amplification rate up to
> the right level its really not a problem (we're talking maybe 5 or 10
> degrees of head movement) - just takes about 5 minutes to get used
> to.
>
> Check out the demo videos on the NaturalPoint website.
>
> Also note that I *do* state its best to get comfortable with the
> simulator and everything before adding this piece. But the ability to
> easily look around adds a lot if you have the patience to set it up
> properly.
>
> On a slightly different note: I have done a lot of experimenting and
> found that longtime pilots have a *much* harder time with simulators
> than new pilots. After doing some unscientific research and gathering
> feedback, I have come to believe that pilots who have flown for a long
> time and never used a simulator get easily frustrated by the lack of
> physical / kinesthetic feedback, and the lack of familiarity of flying
> over strange terrain in a strange glider. They're so used to
> "feeling" the aircraft and flying in their local airspace with known
> references that they have a hard time just flying the plane based on
> the sight-picture and the instruments and the visible angles to the
> ground. Becuase they're so used to being good pilots flying in a
> skilled manner, having a hard time in the simulator tends to frustrate
> and/or embarrass these experienced pilots - and as a result they have
> a dislike or disdain for the simulator.
>
> Take care,
>
> --Noel

Same experience here.

My take on the frustrations of experienced pilots is that they have never
learned to use their eyes correctly. Somewhat counterintuitively, it's
posible to fly a glider largely by feel and with little reliance on visual
inputs for anything other than navigation. Frustration with a PC flight
simulator simply discloses this shortcoming.

A computer flight simulator forces a pilot to use vision for things like
instrument scan and attitude control. This can be very frustrating until
the pilots visual skills come up to speed.

A second issue is that, to a greater degree than in a real glider, a PC
flight simulator requires the pilot to anticipate the aerodynamic response
of the simulated glider. For example, knowing that raising the nose
relative to the horizon WILL result in lower airspeed provides for very
precise airspeed control. Fortunately the flight dynamics model used in
Condor is VERY VERY good.

Bill D