Citabria Fuel-Flow Problem

[quietguy]

The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
like new.

This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.

So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT), quietguy
> wrote in
>:

>The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
>no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
>manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>like new.
>
>This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
>the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
>haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.


I'm not able to accurately visualize the fuel system piping from your
description, but has the A&P checked for a stuck check valve in the
vent piping?

[WingFlaps]

On May 8, 6:17*am, quietguy > wrote:

>
> This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
> the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.

The lack of crossfeed sounds like the cross feed system is the
problem. Is the crossfeed supplied by the fuel selector being set at
both or a separate cross feed pipe? If you've had water sit in a line
for a long time some corrosion may have gunked up the line from the
right tank -I've seen that in ally pipes connected to a valve with
steel and brass parts.

Cheers

[[email protected]]

On May 7, 3:39 pm, WingFlaps > wrote:

> The lack of crossfeed sounds like the cross feed system is the
> problem. Is the crossfeed supplied by the fuel selector being set at
> both or a separate cross feed pipe? If you've had water sit in a line
> for a long time some corrosion may have gunked up the line from the
> right tank -I've seen that in ally pipes connected to a valve with
> steel and brass parts.

There is no "crossfeed" system in a Citabria, but it will
crossflow through the line tees, Crossfeed systems are found in
multis.
There are two tanks, each having two outlets, one near the
front and one near the rear. The two front lines run down the
structural tubing below the front spar and meet at a tee above the
shutoff valve. The two rear lines run back and down behind the cabin
and tee together at the bottom of the airplane, and a single line runs
from there forward to join up with the teed-together front lines. The
fuel proceeds through that point through the shutoff and thence to the
strainer.
The vent is located under the left wing, and is plumbed into
the outboard end of the left tank. The inboard end of the left tank
has a vent fitting that is connected across the top of the cockpit to
the right tank with no check valve between, so that the right tank is
vented to the left and the left is vented outside. Everything will
work well as long as the fuel caps aren't leaking or have been
mistakenly replaced with vented caps, which will screw up the tank
pressures and cause uneven flow.
The OP says that all vent and fuel lines were blown clear and
were flowing OK. Yet the thing won't feed evenly or crossflow even
overnight, which has me puzzled mightily.
We have a 7ECA and a 7GCBC, both with this simple system, and
the only hassle I've ever had with either was an uneven flow problem
in the ECA caused by a vented cap that a previous owner had installed
on the RH tank, and in the GCBC when the LH cap gasket split and
sucked lots of fuel overboard.
I would suspect, at the least, that in the OP's airplane some of
the short lengths of rubber hose that join the various bits of tubing
are collapsed internally, allowing air to blow through when checking
and leaving the impression the the lines are clear, but collapse and
restrict the flow the rest of the time. Those hoses should be replaced
every five years to avoid the deterioration that comes with age and
especially with Mogas. The hose will look fine on the outside but the
inner liner can swell shut and restrict the flow. Asthmatic hoses.

Dan

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> quietguy > wrote in news:b8a07cf2-f01e-4dba-9793-
> :
>
>> The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
>> so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
>> and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
>> a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
>> tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
>> no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>> single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>> under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
>> manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>> like new.
>>
>> This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
>> the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>> We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
>> haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>> for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>> lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>> getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>>
>> So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>
>
> seen minor fed variations, but not like this. I have th emanuals out at
> the hangar and access to a good AI tomorrow night, so I'll ask him. He's
> rebuilt mine so he should know.
>
>
> Bertie

Of coarse you can Bertie Buttlipp, cuz you know everything, you know
everyone, you've done everything.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:1WBUj.5949$1M1.633
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> quietguy > wrote in news:b8a07cf2-f01e-4dba-
9793-
>> :
>>
>>> The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-
320
>>> so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
>>> and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time
until
>>> a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
>>> tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight,
so
>>> no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>>> single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>>> under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward
fuel
>>> manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>>> like new.
>>>
>>> This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as
from
>>> the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>>> We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference.
We
>>> haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>>> for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>>> lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>>> getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>>>
>>> So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>>
>>
>> seen minor fed variations, but not like this. I have th emanuals out
at
>> the hangar and access to a good AI tomorrow night, so I'll ask him.
He's
>> rebuilt mine so he should know.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Of coarse you can Bertie Buttlipp, cuz you know everything, you know
> everyone, you've done everything.



Not everythingk just more than you, wannave boi.



BTW, you know the answer?

Didn't think so.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

quietguy > wrote in news:b8a07cf2-f01e-4dba-9793-
:

> The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
> so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
> and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
> a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
> tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
> no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
> single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
> under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
> manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
> like new.
>
> This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
> the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
> We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
> haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
> for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
> lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
> getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>
> So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>

OK, talked to my guy. He had several suggestions. One is to drain it all
dry and then blow some air (carefully!) into the right tank and see if
you can hear it coming across into the left tank by listening at the
filler cap.
Possible problems he came up with were a crushed or swollen fuel line
downstream of where you tested previously, or, he thought more likely,
incorrect placement of the little plastic fuel vent deflector and/or the
location of the fuel vent itself. There are specs for the location of
these if you look in the manuals. But for the fact that the fuel doesn't
migrate when parked, I would have said this is definitely your problem
For instance, Cessnas with bent or incorrectly positioned vents are
chronically out of balance.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK, talked to my guy. He had several suggestions. One is to drain it all
> dry and then blow some air (carefully!) into the right tank and see if
> you can hear it coming across into the left tank by listening at the
> filler cap.
> Possible problems he came up with were a crushed or swollen fuel line
> downstream of where you tested previously, or, he thought more likely,
> incorrect placement of the little plastic fuel vent deflector and/or the
> location of the fuel vent itself. There are specs for the location of
> these if you look in the manuals. But for the fact that the fuel doesn't
> migrate when parked, I would have said this is definitely your problem
> For instance, Cessnas with bent or incorrectly positioned vents are
> chronically out of balance.
>
>
> Bertie

Oh yeah, that's a lot of help. Where did you find this wanna boi, Wikipedia?

[quietguy]

On May 8, 7:39*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

< another useful clue >

The deflector business is something nobody else has mentioned yet;
I'll pass it on to the A&P. He's got a couple planes needing
attention to their engines and the Citabria, being under-utilized and
still flyable in the pattern, isn't a high priority, so resolving this
may take until next week. I'll post what's been found after the whole
system's been gone through thoroughly. Thanks.

[David Lesher]

quietguy > writes:



>The deflector business is something nobody else has mentioned yet;
>I'll pass it on to the A&P.

I can't see the deflector being it, considering it does not drain back
while tied down...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[dave]

I use to own a 1968 7ECA. The fuel never drained equally. Sometimes,
one tank would not start to drain until the other was fairly low. Not
only did I replace the cap gaskets, I replaced the fuel caps completely.
It seemed to help a little. Do you have fuel gauges in each wing
root? Mine only had a gauge on one side so you knew which side was
flowing if the gauge was dropping faster or slower than it should. At
cruise I burned 6 gallons an hour or hopefully 3 gallons per side but
many times I'd fly for an hour and the gauge would never move or I'd fly
for an hour and the gauge would indicate 1/2 (13 gallon tanks) instead
of 3/4. I was thinking that you may not in fact have a problem but my
tanks would tend to equalize overnight. There's a pretty active
citabria group on yahoo that I used to participate in. I'd ask over
there but it does sound like a soft fuel line.
Dave
1960 M35

quietguy wrote:
> The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
> so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
> and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
> a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
> tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
> no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
> single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
> under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
> manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
> like new.
>
> This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
> the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
> We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
> haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
> for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
> lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
> getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>
> So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT), quietguy
> wrote:

>The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
>so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
>and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
>a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
>tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
>no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
>manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>like new.
>
>This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
>the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
>haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>
>So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?

does the fuel situation change if you swap the caps to the other tank?

[[email protected]]

On May 8, 8:18 pm, quietguy > wrote:

> The deflector business is something nobody else has mentioned yet;
> I'll pass it on to the A&P. He's got a couple planes needing
> attention to their engines and the Citabria, being under-utilized and
> still flyable in the pattern, isn't a high priority, so resolving this
> may take until next week. I'll post what's been found after the whole
> system's been gone through thoroughly. Thanks.

The deflector does nothing more than keep bugs and ice out of the
vent. Cessna places theirs behind the lift strut to do the same thing.
When the airplane isn't in flight it makes no difference whatever, and
older Champs and Citabrias didn't have it.
I would still suspect rotten hoses, on both the fuel and vent
lines. Especially if they're old or have been run on Mogas. Or if some
mechanic installed the wrong MIL-Spec hose the last time they were
replaced. It's the only thing short of a blocked aluminum fuel line
that would do this, especially if it won't crossflow overnight to the
lower wing or equalize between tanks if the airplane is level. It
doesn't take much slope to make it run from one side to the other,
BTW.


Dan

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

wrote in news:429fbca0-f93a-4b0e-a37f-
:

> On May 8, 8:18 pm, quietguy > wrote:
>
>> The deflector business is something nobody else has mentioned yet;
>> I'll pass it on to the A&P. He's got a couple planes needing
>> attention to their engines and the Citabria, being under-utilized and
>> still flyable in the pattern, isn't a high priority, so resolving
this
>> may take until next week. I'll post what's been found after the
whole
>> system's been gone through thoroughly. Thanks.
>
> The deflector does nothing more than keep bugs and ice out of the
> vent. Cessna places theirs behind the lift strut to do the same thing.
> When the airplane isn't in flight it makes no difference whatever, and
> older Champs and Citabrias didn't have it.

Not so, according to my friend, but I agree, if it's not draining back
whilst sitting, it's unlikely to be the cause.

> I would still suspect rotten hoses, on both the fuel and vent
> lines. Especially if they're old or have been run on Mogas. Or if some
> mechanic installed the wrong MIL-Spec hose the last time they were
> replaced. It's the only thing short of a blocked aluminum fuel line
> that would do this, especially if it won't crossflow overnight to the
> lower wing or equalize between tanks if the airplane is level. It
> doesn't take much slope to make it run from one side to the other,
> BTW.
>
Yeah, gotta be, really. I have to say, i wouldn't consider the airplane
airworthy in this state, though.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> OK, talked to my guy. He had several suggestions. One is to drain it
>> all dry and then blow some air (carefully!) into the right tank and
>> see if you can hear it coming across into the left tank by listening
>> at the filler cap.
>> Possible problems he came up with were a crushed or swollen fuel line
>> downstream of where you tested previously, or, he thought more
>> likely, incorrect placement of the little plastic fuel vent deflector
>> and/or the location of the fuel vent itself. There are specs for the
>> location of these if you look in the manuals. But for the fact that
>> the fuel doesn't migrate when parked, I would have said this is
>> definitely your problem For instance, Cessnas with bent or
>> incorrectly positioned vents are chronically out of balance.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Oh yeah, that's a lot of help.


I know.


Where did you find this wanna boi,
> Wikipedia?
>
>
>

Said where i found it wannabe boi.


Aren't we the little prankster!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT), quietguy
> > wrote:
>
>>The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
>>so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
>>and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
>>a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
>>tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
>>no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>>single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>>under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
>>manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>>like new.
>>
>>This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
>>the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>>We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
>>haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>>for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>>lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>>getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>>
>>So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>
> does the fuel situation change if you swap the caps to the other tank?
>

Citabria caps aren't vented.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...

>>
> Yeah, gotta be, really. I have to say, i wouldn't consider the airplane
> airworthy in this state, though.
>
>
> Bertie

Yeah buddy, like ANYONE would be stupid enough to give a rat's ass what you
think.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> Citabria caps aren't vented.
>
>
> Bertie

No, but your head is wannaboi.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>
>> Yeah, gotta be, really. I have to say, i wouldn't consider the
>> airplane airworthy in this state, though.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Yeah buddy, like ANYONE would be stupid enough to give a rat's ass
> what you think.

Surprisingly, they do.


Go figure.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:uB1Vj.71398$y05.6116
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Citabria caps aren't vented.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> No, but your head is wannaboi.
>

I know, you're obviously isn't, though.

Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>>
>>> Yeah, gotta be, really. I have to say, i wouldn't consider the
>>> airplane airworthy in this state, though.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Yeah buddy, like ANYONE would be stupid enough to give a rat's ass
>> what you think.
>
> Surprisingly, they do.
>
>
> Go figure.
>
> Bertie

Bull****. They've all got you killfiled!!!

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:302Vj.71404$y05.62546
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, gotta be, really. I have to say, i wouldn't consider the
>>>> airplane airworthy in this state, though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Yeah buddy, like ANYONE would be stupid enough to give a rat's ass
>>> what you think.
>>
>> Surprisingly, they do.
>>
>>
>> Go figure.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Bull****. They've all got you killfiled!!!
>
>
>

You've killfiled me?

How do you keep finding my poasts?


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> You've killfiled me?
>
> How do you keep finding my poasts?
>
>
> Bertie

Your a liar. I don't killfile anyone.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Fri, 9 May 2008 17:34:02 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:
>
>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT), quietguy
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
>>>so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
>>>and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
>>>a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
>>>tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
>>>no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>>>single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>>>under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
>>>manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>>>like new.
>>>
>>>This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
>>>the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>>>We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
>>>haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>>>for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>>>lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>>>getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>>>
>>>So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>>
>> does the fuel situation change if you swap the caps to the other tank?
>>
>
>Citabria caps aren't vented.
>
>
>Bertie

that is what I was getting at bertie. looking as though they seal isnt
necessarily sealed.
if one is leaking and you swap the caps around the pattern of the
problem should change.
a cheap check

Stealth Pilot

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:ObiVj.93$CE1.63
@newsfe23.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> You've killfiled me?
>>
>> How do you keep finding my poasts?
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Your a liar. I don't killfile anyone.
>
>

You're the one that said everyon has killfiled me.

I'm a troll, moron, I troll for k00ks.

And I got a big one.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:


>
> that is what I was getting at bertie. looking as though they seal isnt
> necessarily sealed.
> if one is leaking and you swap the caps around the pattern of the
> problem should change.
> a cheap check

Ah, OK. Makes sense.

Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> You're the one that said everyon has killfiled me.
>
> I'm a troll, moron, I troll for k00ks.
>
> And I got a big one.
>
>
>
> Bertie

You're not a troll wanna boi, you're too ****ing stupid.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 9 May 2008 17:34:02 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
>>Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT), quietguy
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-320
>>>>so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero Club
>>>>and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time until
>>>>a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get my
>>>>tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight, so
>>>>no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>>>>single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>>>>under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward fuel
>>>>manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>>>>like new.
>>>>
>>>>This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as from
>>>>the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>>>>We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference. We
>>>>haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>>>>for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>>>>lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>>>>getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>>>>
>>>>So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>>>
>>> does the fuel situation change if you swap the caps to the other tank?
>>>
>>
>>Citabria caps aren't vented.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>
> that is what I was getting at bertie. looking as though they seal isnt
> necessarily sealed.
> if one is leaking and you swap the caps around the pattern of the
> problem should change.
> a cheap check
>
> Stealth Pilot

You would probably find it easier to explain to MX.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:BKjVj.72954$y05.17218
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> You're the one that said everyon has killfiled me.
>>
>> I'm a troll, moron, I troll for k00ks.
>>
>> And I got a big one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> You're not a troll wanna boi, you're too ****ing stupid.
>
>

Yeb, obviously.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:BLjVj.72955$y05.14344
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 9 May 2008 17:34:02 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT), quietguy
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The A/C in question is a 1974 Bellanca 7ECA, re-engined with an O-
320
>>>>>so it's effectively a 7GCAA. It belongs to the Offutt AFB Aero
Club
>>>>>and has seen very little use, often sitting for weeks at a time
until
>>>>>a week ago when I began taking dual in it 2-3 times a week to get
my
>>>>>tailwheel endorsement. The fuel system is not for inverted flight,
so
>>>>>no header tank -- two 18-gallon wing tanks with check valves to a
>>>>>single vent on the left, crossflow pipes to the aft fuel manifold
>>>>>under the baggage compartment and crossflow pipes to the forward
fuel
>>>>>manifold on the firewall. Caps are non-vented and the gaskets are
>>>>>like new.
>>>>>
>>>>>This A/C is drawing 3-4 times as much fuel from the left tank as
from
>>>>>the right and it's not crossflowing on the ground, even overnight.
>>>>>We've made right patterns as well as lefts -- makes no difference.
We
>>>>>haven't done any extended S&L flight, just 11 NM to Plattsmouth, NE
>>>>>for pattern work. The club's A&P has blown out the feed and vent
>>>>>lines and got a good blast into the right tank from both. We're
>>>>>getting a free flow of clean gas out of all four drains.
>>>>>
>>>>>So what's our next move? Anybody had this problem?
>>>>
>>>> does the fuel situation change if you swap the caps to the other
tank?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Citabria caps aren't vented.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bertie
>>
>> that is what I was getting at bertie. looking as though they seal
isnt
>> necessarily sealed.
>> if one is leaking and you swap the caps around the pattern of the
>> problem should change.
>> a cheap check
>>
>> Stealth Pilot
>
> You would probably find it easier to explain to MX.


Awww, he;'s giving me another lashing there.

Ouch.


Bertie

[David Lesher]

I can think of a simple test. Tie the aircraft down, stick the
tanks, confirm the asymmetric state.

Now, remove both caps. Wait a while, maybe a few hours. Stick tanks.
Any change? If yes, it's vent related, if not, the [bottom] fuel
lines/manifold.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message


Me da,,,,Me da

Are you Bertie's sister MeDa Buttlip

Squirt, squirt.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:NcqVj.2735$hJ1.725
@newsfe17.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>
>
> Me da,,,,Me da
>
> Are you Bertie's sister MeDa Buttlip
>

Why, you want me to fix you up?

Bertie

[quietguy]

The Citabria's fuel system is okay now; those who guessed "filler
caps" have the satisfaction of being right. The A&P had time to give
the system a good look late last week and we tested the fix with some
local and cross-country flying over the weekend. The left tank still
tends to contribute a bit more than the right in flight, but "it's
always done that." And the system now crossflows on the ground when
the wings are not level, which it had stopped doing.

The A&P didn't find any soft or swollen hoses so he took a close look
at the cap gaskets and found that looking like new and performing like
new aren't the same thing. There were no cracks or other obvious
flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left tank
just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right. To
seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult to
screw down tight.

Thanks to all who contributed ideas.

[[email protected]]

On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
> There were no cracks or other obvious
> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left tank
> just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right. To
> seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult to
> screw down tight.

The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent into
the left, so a leaking RH cap would hold back the flow in flight
somewhat due to the small resistance of airflow through the vent
crossover. But leaking caps still don't explain the lack of crossflow
overnight; only a totally plugged vent system or plugged fuel lines
would do that.
Those cap gaskets compress with age and get hard, and won't seal
unless they're really clamped down tight. New gaskets fix that, but
they can be so tight that the cap doesn't get screwed on all the way
and can come off in flight. I painted red stripes on our caps so that
the stripes are lined up fore-and-aft when the caps are all the way
on. And I use a little tiny bit of Dow DC-4 silicone grease between
the cap and gasket so the cap doesn't have to grind the gasket against
the filler neck; the cap goes on really nice after that.

Dan

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

wrote in news:6cbe76a7-0b6a-4d7c-a352-
:

> On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
>> There were no cracks or other obvious
>> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
>> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left tank
>> just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right. To
>> seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult to
>> screw down tight.
>
> The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent into
> the left,

Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time the
reality differed from the manuals, of course.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
> tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time the
> reality differed from the manuals, of course.
>
>
> Bertie
>

Or the first time reality differed from your recollection.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:FIqYj.87799$y05.56401
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
>> tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time
the
>> reality differed from the manuals, of course.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> Or the first time reality differed from your recollection.
>

True enouogh, but then I do still remember where I left the manuals, so
it doen't matter.



Bertie

[[email protected]]

On May 19, 7:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> wrote in news:6cbe76a7-0b6a-4d7c-a352-
> :
>
> > On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
> >> There were no cracks or other obvious
> >> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
> >> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left tank
> >> just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right. To
> >> seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult to
> >> screw down tight.
>
> > The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent into
> > the left,
>
> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
> tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time the
> reality differed from the manuals, of course.
>
> Bertie

Must have changed at some point. Both of ours have the vent
feeding through a check valve into the LH tank, and a crossover vent
connection between the inboard walls of both tanks.

Dan

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> On May 19, 7:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> wrote in news:6cbe76a7-0b6a-4d7c-a352-
>> :
>>
>> > On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
>> >> There were no cracks or other obvious
>> >> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
>> >> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left tank
>> >> just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right. To
>> >> seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult to
>> >> screw down tight.
>>
>> > The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent into
>> > the left,
>>
>> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
>> tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time the
>> reality differed from the manuals, of course.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Must have changed at some point. Both of ours have the vent
> feeding through a check valve into the LH tank, and a crossover vent
> connection between the inboard walls of both tanks.
>
> Dan

You're just feeding a troll. All he does is repeat what he is told. Very
much like MX.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

In article >, Maxwell says...

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On May 19, 7:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> >> wrote in news:6cbe76a7-0b6a-4d7c-a352-
> >> :
> >>
> >> > On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
> >> >> There were no cracks or other obvious
> >> >> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
> >> >> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left tank
> >> >> just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right. To
> >> >> seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult to
> >> >> screw down tight.
> >>
> >> > The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent into
> >> > the left,
> >>
> >> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
> >> tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time the
> >> reality differed from the manuals, of course.
> >>
> >> Bertie
> >
> > Must have changed at some point. Both of ours have the vent
> > feeding through a check valve into the LH tank, and a crossover vent
> > connection between the inboard walls of both tanks.
> >
> > Dan
>
> You're just feeding a troll. All he does is repeat what he is told. Very
> much like MX.

Bertie?

A troll?

My gawd, what is the world coming to?


--

"Tis an ill wind that blows no minds"

[Maxwell[_2_]]

forged post

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

wrote in news:d3672a56-fbb0-4eac-bb4a-
:

> On May 19, 7:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> wrote in news:6cbe76a7-0b6a-4d7c-a352-
>> :
>>
>> > On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
>> >> There were no cracks or other obvious
>> >> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
>> >> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left
tank
>> >> just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the right.
To
>> >> seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be difficult
to
>> >> screw down tight.
>>
>> > The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent
into
>> > the left,
>>
>> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to both
>> tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first time
the
>> reality differed from the manuals, of course.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Must have changed at some point. Both of ours have the vent
> feeding through a check valve into the LH tank, and a crossover vent
> connection between the inboard walls of both tanks.
>


Might depend on the year of manufacture 9 my books are for the mid
seenites airplanes) and /or the manufacturer.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> > wrote in message
> news:d3672a56-fbb0-4eac-bb4a-c428792f98c8
@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com.
> ..
>> On May 19, 7:00 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> wrote in news:6cbe76a7-0b6a-4d7c-a352-
>>> :
>>>
>>> > On May 19, 5:27 pm, quietguy > wrote:
>>> >> There were no cracks or other obvious
>>> >> flaws but both gaskets were equally bad at sealing; that's why a
>>> >> simple cap-swap didn't change anything. It seems that the left
>>> >> tank just isn't as sensitive to venting/sealing problems as the
>>> >> right. To seal well, even with good gaskets, the caps have to be
>>> >> difficult to screw down tight.
>>>
>>> > The LH tank vents directly outside, while the RH tank vent
>>> > into
>>> > the left,
>>>
>>> Not according to my manual, which has a T fitting feeding air to
>>> both tanks from the one vent on all models. It wouldn't be the first
>>> time the reality differed from the manuals, of course.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Must have changed at some point. Both of ours have the vent
>> feeding through a check valve into the LH tank, and a crossover vent
>> connection between the inboard walls of both tanks.
>>
>> Dan
>
> You're just feeding a troll. All he does is repeat what he is told.
> Very much like MX.
>


MX isn't told anything.


I suppose since you were born with the aviation gene you don't need to
be told anything, eh?

#Bwawhawhahwhahwhahwhhahwhah!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:3vdZj.919$7k1.862
@newsfe24.lga:

> forged post
>
>
>

Nope.


Wonder how I would know that, BTW?

Bertie

[Saville]

quietguy wrote:

> The Citabria's fuel system is okay now; those who guessed "filler
> caps" have the satisfaction of being right. The A&P had time to give
> the system a good look late last week and we tested the fix with some
> local and cross-country flying over the weekend. The left tank still
> tends to contribute a bit more than the right in flight, but "it's
> always done that." And the system now crossflows on the ground when
> the wings are not level, which it had stopped doing.

Thanks for startingthe topic. This is good stuff to know. One recently
checked out on a Citabria at one of my FBO's and I'll keep what you found
out in mind.