IGSO Engines - What are they?

[JohnO]

What's the difference between an IGSO-540 and an IO-540? Can one be
conveniently used in an RV-10?

Thanks
JohnO

[Michael Henry[_2_]]

JohnO wrote:
> What's the difference between an IGSO-540 and an IO-540? Can one be
> conveniently used in an RV-10?

According to Lycoming:

http://www.lycoming.com/support/tips-advice/key-reprints/pdfs/Key%20General.pdf

"Supercharged Engines as manufactured by Lycoming uses a compressor
wheel to pack air into the cylinders; but the compressor is driven by
the crankshaft through an intricate gearing system, which takes
considerable horsepower from the engine to operate. In comparison with a
turbocharged engine, it is a medium altitude power plant.

Although supercharged engines could be built by Lycoming, new aircraft
designs during the past 20 or more years have used turbocharging instead
of supercharging because of the advantages that turbocharging offers.

A supercharged, geared, opposed, fuel-injected Lycoming engine with
cylinders of 540-cubic inch displacement is designated
an IGSO-540 model."

[Bob Kuykendall]

On May 21, 8:00*pm, JohnO > wrote:
> What's the difference between an IGSO-540 and an IO-540?

IGSO-540 = gear-upped Queen Air + eBay

Thanks, Bob K.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On May 22, 12:27*pm, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:

> IGSO-540 = gear-upped Queen Air + eBay

I'm sorry, that _is_ a bit flippant. Please let me try again.

The short answer is, no, you can't conveniently put an IGSO-540 on the
nose of an RV-10. That's not to say that it can't be done, it can.
There are some with the resources and know-how and wherewithall and
the gumption to do it conveniently besides. And with some serious
invenstment in time and trouble, with a lot of hard lessons along the
way, you could do it, I know you could. But it's one of those things
where, if you have to ask then it's probably outside the realm of what
you'd call convenience.

The IGSO engines are big, serious machines of the sort that turbine
engines such as the PT6 made somewhat obsolete. The were mostly used
on executive transports such as Beech Queen Airs. They also appeared
on a lot of military aircraft such as trainers and transports that
were originally developed as executive transports. They tend to work
best when maintained and operated to rigorous specs.

The G tells you that its Geared, and that means that it is longer and
heavier than its direct drive couterparts. It will also use a
different prop that takes advantage of the lower output speed but is
less common and probably more expensive. The gears at the front will
be expensive specialty parts that make overhauls and prop strikes that
much more expensive. The gear case also moves the combined CG of the
engine and propeller forward, something you probably don't want on an
RV-10.

The S is for Supercharged, which means even more expensive gears and
bearings and whirly bits, except on the back of the engine instead of
the front. It's good if you want to cruise at high altitude, but not
so good if you expect to be moving the throttle briskly.

If what you wanted was a seriously go-fast high-altitude homebuilt
cruiser, you were of a mind to operate it carefully, and you had the
resources to develop the installation and feed its mighty thirst, then
the one of those big old geared supercharged engines might be just the
thing. But if you want to keep the learning curve down to a dull roar
and get into the air (relatively) quickly, I think your best bet is to
just use the engine that Van's recommends, and install it the way
everybody else does.

Your mileage has already varied. The revolution is not being
televised.

Thanks, Bob K.

[JohnO]

On May 23, 7:57 am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> On May 22, 12:27 pm, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
>
> > IGSO-540 = gear-upped Queen Air + eBay
>
> I'm sorry, that _is_ a bit flippant. Please let me try again.
>
> The short answer is, no, you can't conveniently put an IGSO-540 on the
> nose of an RV-10. That's not to say that it can't be done, it can.
> There are some with the resources and know-how and wherewithall and
> the gumption to do it conveniently besides. And with some serious
> invenstment in time and trouble, with a lot of hard lessons along the
> way, you could do it, I know you could. But it's one of those things
> where, if you have to ask then it's probably outside the realm of what
> you'd call convenience.
>
> The IGSO engines are big, serious machines of the sort that turbine
> engines such as the PT6 made somewhat obsolete. The were mostly used
> on executive transports such as Beech Queen Airs. They also appeared
> on a lot of military aircraft such as trainers and transports that
> were originally developed as executive transports. They tend to work
> best when maintained and operated to rigorous specs.
>
> The G tells you that its Geared, and that means that it is longer and
> heavier than its direct drive couterparts. It will also use a
> different prop that takes advantage of the lower output speed but is
> less common and probably more expensive. The gears at the front will
> be expensive specialty parts that make overhauls and prop strikes that
> much more expensive. The gear case also moves the combined CG of the
> engine and propeller forward, something you probably don't want on an
> RV-10.
>
> The S is for Supercharged, which means even more expensive gears and
> bearings and whirly bits, except on the back of the engine instead of
> the front. It's good if you want to cruise at high altitude, but not
> so good if you expect to be moving the throttle briskly.
>
> If what you wanted was a seriously go-fast high-altitude homebuilt
> cruiser, you were of a mind to operate it carefully, and you had the
> resources to develop the installation and feed its mighty thirst, then
> the one of those big old geared supercharged engines might be just the
> thing. But if you want to keep the learning curve down to a dull roar
> and get into the air (relatively) quickly, I think your best bet is to
> just use the engine that Van's recommends, and install it the way
> everybody else does.
>
> Your mileage has already varied. The revolution is not being
> televised.
>
> Thanks, Bob K.

Bob - your first response was more than adequate but thanks for the
none the less most interesting detailed reply!

[Sliker]

On Wed, 21 May 2008 20:00:57 -0700 (PDT), JohnO >
wrote:

>What's the difference between an IGSO-540 and an IO-540? Can one be
>conveniently used in an RV-10?
>
>Thanks
>JohnO


IGSO= I - Injected (fuel injected) G = Geared, S= Supercharged, O =
Opposed (horizontally opposed engine)

The weight of the gearbox and the supercharger would make the plane
too nose heavy and wouldn't fit the cowling. Those are Queen Air
engines, and some others might use them. There are even some out there
that have both superchargers and Turbo chargers. The GTSIO variety.
Engines in that catagory are very expensive to overhaul. I had a
friend that lived in Florida, and owned a Queen air, he said one of
his engines needed overhaul and it would cost $60K. And that was 15
years ago.
If you got the engine for practically nothing, you might be able to
use the cylinders, and possibly some other parts. You'd need to find a
servicable case and crankshaft. A can of worms to even go there.
I found an engine for my Glasair 3 that came out of an Aerostar. An
IO-540 S1A5. But it's the angled valve engine, which weighs about 75
pounds more than the parrallel version. I suspect the RV-10 is based
on the parrallel version that is found in Piper Aztecs, (C4B5) and
other versions found in many other planes. It's in the 400 pound
class. The angled valve engines like mine are in the 475 pound class.
The Piper Cherokee six 300 engine is another 300hp 475 lb. engine
that's popular in Glasairs. The Glasair 3 is designed for that much
weight up front. The RV-10 is probably designed for the 400 pound
engines. That much extra weight up front would probably make it nose
heavy. You might be able to pull it off with a light weight prop, like
an MT or Hoffman, with their wood blades. And you might still have to
add weight in the tail. And those props are expensive. several
thousand more than a standard Hartzell constant speed.

[Cliff]

I think GTSIO are turbo only. There arn't any supercharged engines from
Lycoming or Continental in flat 4s or 6s.
"Sliker" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 May 2008 20:00:57 -0700 (PDT), JohnO >
> wrote:
>
>>What's the difference between an IGSO-540 and an IO-540? Can one be
>>conveniently used in an RV-10?
>>
>>Thanks
>>JohnO
>
>
> IGSO= I - Injected (fuel injected) G = Geared, S= Supercharged, O =
> Opposed (horizontally opposed engine)
>
> The weight of the gearbox and the supercharger would make the plane
> too nose heavy and wouldn't fit the cowling. Those are Queen Air
> engines, and some others might use them. There are even some out there
> that have both superchargers and Turbo chargers. The GTSIO variety.
> Engines in that catagory are very expensive to overhaul. I had a
> friend that lived in Florida, and owned a Queen air, he said one of
> his engines needed overhaul and it would cost $60K. And that was 15
> years ago.
> If you got the engine for practically nothing, you might be able to
> use the cylinders, and possibly some other parts. You'd need to find a
> servicable case and crankshaft. A can of worms to even go there.
> I found an engine for my Glasair 3 that came out of an Aerostar. An
> IO-540 S1A5. But it's the angled valve engine, which weighs about 75
> pounds more than the parrallel version. I suspect the RV-10 is based
> on the parrallel version that is found in Piper Aztecs, (C4B5) and
> other versions found in many other planes. It's in the 400 pound
> class. The angled valve engines like mine are in the 475 pound class.
> The Piper Cherokee six 300 engine is another 300hp 475 lb. engine
> that's popular in Glasairs. The Glasair 3 is designed for that much
> weight up front. The RV-10 is probably designed for the 400 pound
> engines. That much extra weight up front would probably make it nose
> heavy. You might be able to pull it off with a light weight prop, like
> an MT or Hoffman, with their wood blades. And you might still have to
> add weight in the tail. And those props are expensive. several
> thousand more than a standard Hartzell constant speed.

[Bill Daniels]

GTSIO = Geared, Turbo Supercharged, Injected, Opposed.
IGSO = Injected, Geared, Supercharged, Opposed.
IO = Injected, Opposed

In fact, there are many turbocharged flat 4's and 6's from Continental and
Lycoming.



"Cliff" > wrote in message
...
> I think GTSIO are turbo only. There arn't any supercharged engines
> from Lycoming or Continental in flat 4s or 6s.
> "Sliker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 21 May 2008 20:00:57 -0700 (PDT), JohnO >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>What's the difference between an IGSO-540 and an IO-540? Can one be
>>>conveniently used in an RV-10?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>JohnO
>>
>>
>> IGSO= I - Injected (fuel injected) G = Geared, S= Supercharged, O =
>> Opposed (horizontally opposed engine)
>>
>> The weight of the gearbox and the supercharger would make the plane
>> too nose heavy and wouldn't fit the cowling. Those are Queen Air
>> engines, and some others might use them. There are even some out there
>> that have both superchargers and Turbo chargers. The GTSIO variety.
>> Engines in that catagory are very expensive to overhaul. I had a
>> friend that lived in Florida, and owned a Queen air, he said one of
>> his engines needed overhaul and it would cost $60K. And that was 15
>> years ago.
>> If you got the engine for practically nothing, you might be able to
>> use the cylinders, and possibly some other parts. You'd need to find a
>> servicable case and crankshaft. A can of worms to even go there.
>> I found an engine for my Glasair 3 that came out of an Aerostar. An
>> IO-540 S1A5. But it's the angled valve engine, which weighs about 75
>> pounds more than the parrallel version. I suspect the RV-10 is based
>> on the parrallel version that is found in Piper Aztecs, (C4B5) and
>> other versions found in many other planes. It's in the 400 pound
>> class. The angled valve engines like mine are in the 475 pound class.
>> The Piper Cherokee six 300 engine is another 300hp 475 lb. engine
>> that's popular in Glasairs. The Glasair 3 is designed for that much
>> weight up front. The RV-10 is probably designed for the 400 pound
>> engines. That much extra weight up front would probably make it nose
>> heavy. You might be able to pull it off with a light weight prop, like
>> an MT or Hoffman, with their wood blades. And you might still have to
>> add weight in the tail. And those props are expensive. several
>> thousand more than a standard Hartzell constant speed.
>
>