Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big piece
of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the current, and
pondering life.

We had flown here in Atlas, our Cherokee Pathfinder -- a flight that took a
whopping twenty minutes. We'd made the flight a hundred times, over the
last eleven years -- it's out default
"rather-go-somewhere-than-fly-the-pattern" flight -- but every now and then
something made it different.

Tonight was different.

We had flown there as a flight of two, with close friends. They had brought
their baby and toddler with them, while we had flown with our daughter, who
has been flying with us since birth. The evening was sublime, with the sun
a low, glowing orb in the sky. The flight had been wondrous.

Instead of eating dinner, we had decided to pick up homemade pies from a
favorite restaurant, milk from a convenience store, and take everything down
to a riverside park. It was decadent and unhealthy, and the kids loved it.

So, I sat, eating pecan pie, watching the river flow by, watching the kids
play...and my thoughts turned strangely to the folks on this newsgroup.
Memories of all the great folks who have taught me so much, all the people
who have shared their flying experiences here...and all the folks who have
so recently brought this great group to its knees.

As I watched the great river roll by, at the end of gorgeous, late-spring
flight, eating home-made pecan pie with family and friends, I thought of the
trolls who have done such damage here, and was overwhelmed with sadness for
them. I realized that these folks would never, ever, feel the joy of flying
over a late spring landscape, of watching the sun low over the Mississippi
River. They would never know what it's like to push the throttle forward
and feel the acceleration pushing you back in your seat, of the wheels
getting light right before the wings take over and the plane arks strongly
into a crystal clear sky.

Later, as I banked over that big river, so different looking from up here,
the water fowl scattering far below, thoughts of this group faded to
insignificance, as they should. Touching down lightly back in Iowa City,
however, taxiing past the Ercoupe that we've offered to buy, pushing the
plane back into the hangar, I realized that these trolls, these wannabe
pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic. They spend endless
hours here, talking about things they'll never know, asking questions they
don't want answered, sniping, hating, filling their days with pointless
personal attacks, and -- worst of all -- drowning out and discouraging all
the good people here.

Something's got to change. Aviation is a tiny, ever-shrinking group, with
diminishing political clout and threats on all sides. This group has, in
the past, represented the best of the piloting community, and we simply
can't waste any more of our time tussling with trolls and malcontents.
Ignore 'em, kill file 'em, do what you gotta do -- but do NOT engage them.

Take the high road, please -- we've simply got to fix this!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Denny]

Oh what the heck, I'll take the bait...
Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not
flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed
back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading
cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight... Then only a tiny fraction
of the population was a pilot... Today (up till now) about the same
percentage of the population are pilots as are physicians, as are ham
radio operators, and some others - in other words a small
percentage... Dunno about the docs, but pilots are a shrinking
percentage...

Now we can all rattle off the likely causes - Draconian FAA
enforcement of even minor infractions of those invisible walls in the
sky, nonsensical but dangerous and intrusive HSA security regulations
that seem to multiply daily, rapidly rising cost of insurance, of
hangars, of parts, of maintenance, and of course - of gasoline...
I looked at the cost of gas at Washington National, they didn't have
any but the jet fuel was nearly $8 a gallon!

Chatted with a CFI at my home field yesterday... He has two regular
planes for rental and instruction... He also has an LSA (don't know
the model)... I asked how the LSA was going... He said it was bad...
When I asked why, he commented that the many prospective students for
trianing, and especially for the LSA, can't pass a medical and/or
security check for the instruction phase... That the biggest reasons
are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of
younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust
permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security
clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new
thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues
daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those
offenses is...

denny

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Denny >
wrote:

>
>

>are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of
>younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust
>permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security
>clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new
>thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues
>daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those
>offenses is...
>
>denny

denny is that a bad thing?
drugs damage brains, often permanently.
do you really want that in the air with you?
I dont.

I'm never in favour of an exclusive environment in aviation but it is
an environment where death stalks the stupid. there are levels of
knowledge and skill that must be met by participants in the
environment if they are to live to retirement.
they have to reach competence.

Stealth Pilot

[Thomas Borchert]

Denny,

> rapidly rising cost of insurance, of
> hangars, of parts, of maintenance, and of course - of gasoline...
>

I don't buy that. Best selling airplane for years: Cirrus SR22. That's
their offering with the BIG, gas-guzzling engine, not the smaller SR20.
People don't care (enough).

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I don't buy that. Best selling airplane for years: Cirrus SR22. That's
> their offering with the BIG, gas-guzzling engine, not the smaller SR20.
> People don't care (enough).

I think that's finally changing. Cirrus' sales numbers are way down, as is
the used aircraft market for big-bore pistons.

Funny how spending $300 to fill your tanks changes your perspective on
things.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not
> flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed
> back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading
> cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight...

Yep, it's already happening. Our flight of two last night represented the
only aircraft flying at Muscatine Muni, on a picture-perfect gorgeous spring
evening.

Iowa City was somewhat busier, with four of us arriving in the pattern at
sunset, but that's always a good time to watch traffic, with everyone trying
to get down before darkness sets in.

It's getting harder to enjoy the warm afterglow of a flight well-done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[BDS[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote...
> > Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not
> > flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed
> > back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading
> > cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight...
>
> Yep, it's already happening. Our flight of two last night represented the
> only aircraft flying at Muscatine Muni, on a picture-perfect gorgeous
spring
> evening.
>
> Iowa City was somewhat busier, with four of us arriving in the pattern at
> sunset, but that's always a good time to watch traffic, with everyone
trying
> to get down before darkness sets in.
>
> It's getting harder to enjoy the warm afterglow of a flight well-done.

Our home base is starting to look like a ghost town. The ramp used to be
brimming with aircraft and it's so sparsely populated now it's actually
depressing.

BDS

[Michael[_1_]]

On May 22, 12:50*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> I realized that these trolls, these wannabe
> pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic.

Trolls always are. But then, we've always had them, for as long as
there has been usenet.
They never mattered much.

> Something's got to change.

Something already has. Just not for the better.

Jay, I remember when you showed up here. Things were already well on
their way downhill - all that kept us going was inertia. There was a
time when usenet was different.

There was a time when we all posted with our real names. Now, the
only ones who can safely do so are the retired and self-employed,
those still in school, and those lucky few who work for sparklingly
sane organizations where a complaint that you are posting to usenet
during working hours can't possibly get any traction. There was a
time when making a complaint like that against another poster was
unthinkable - and then came the era of the fish, and even those who
could not see the writing on the wall before went anonymous.

There was a time when conversations were mostly worthwhile here.
People might be wrong, but they were generally not grossly ignorant or
stupid. There might be heated debate, but it was debate, not name-
calling. It's not that trolling, flaming, and other such stupidity
didn't happen - it did - but it was far more rare, and generally done
with more style.

So what changed?

It used to be that there was a barrier to entry. If you wanted to
access usenet, you needed to be able to handle a shell account - unix,
VMS, something. You needed to make an effort - because there were not
commercials all over the place for internet access. There was a self-
selection process, and it selected for those who were comfortable with
computers - and thus with a more logical, less emotional style of
thinking and communicating.

This is absolutely essential to a usenet discussion. In real life
discussion, we have limits on how nasty a discussion can get. There
are time limits - discussions can't usually drag on for hours, never
mind days. There are participant limits - you can't really have an
unmoderated discussion with more than a few people. There are
personal limits - at some point, you risk getting punched in the face,
but long before you get to that point, there will be body language
telling you to back off. Threre are limits to what you can claim -
everyone has met you and knows who you are. Finally, there is the
basic limit - if someone is a pain, you can just not invite him again.

All this is lacking in usenet, and the only way to compensate is a
certain detachment and formalism - which is normal for interacting
with a computer anyway. I am, of course, dating myself when I say
this. These days, most people don't really interact with a computer -
they're not using it to write code, analyze data, etc. They're using
it as mostly a communication tool - think email, word processing, web,
presentation. It's mostly just a way of interacting with other
people. Even the games have gone that way - most of the popular ones
are massively multiplayer. But it wasn't like that back then.

This imposed a certain rigor on the discussion. You were typing into
a computer, so you were less likely to type a poorly considered,
emotional argument. You knew that a computer didn't care what
credentials you held, so you didn't expect your credentials to impress
anyone on the other side of the screen and knew that what you wrote
would have to stand on its own merits. You knew that what you said
would have to be well thought out, internally consistent, logical - or
it would be rejected (as an error by a machine, and by ridicule on
usenet) - and so you tried to think things through logically and
eliminate inconsistency. That's gone now, and without that, usenet
discussion can't survive.

Of course there was always the exception. In September, the new
college students would show up and get accounts on the university
computers. Most were not used to using computers. Many would find
usenet. Most would quickly discover that it wasn't their cup of tea.
They discovered that if they weren't interested in participating in a
logical, civil discussion of the topic at hand, they were in the
minority and could expect to be ridiculed. Most disappeared. A few
stayed, and became part of the usenet community.

And then AOL opened the floodgates - all you needed was an AOL account
with it's point-and-click interface, and you could access usenet.
That was the September that never ended. It's been downhill ever
since.

The degeneration of this particular (aviation) usenet hierarchy has
little or nothing to do with the declining number of pilots. Check
the scuba and skydiving hierarchies - they are in far worse shape, and
their numbers are growing, not shrinking and aging like ours. Most of
the people I know who were serious contributors to the aviation groups
and have since mostly faded out are still quite active in aviation.
They are flying, building, fixing, and restoring aircraft. I know I
am. They have not dropped out of aviation, but usenet - and you can't
even pinpoint when it happened.

Every once in a while, someone will announce - generally by starting a
new thread with that topic - that he is leaving the group. It never
really works that way. When someone does that, you can be sure he'll
be back. People don't leave with a bang, but with a whimper. You
will have a regular and prolific contributor that seems to be less
regular, less prolific. Weeks, sometimes months pass by without a
post - and then the posts are few and far between, and eventually you
realize that he's not a regular anymore - he drops by every once in a
while, but mostly he is gone.

Usenet was once a place where you could have a higher quality of
discussion than you could at the local pilot's lounge in the airport -
the limited access assured that the people here were brighter than
average. But that barrier to entry is long gone, and the people who
preceded that barrier are mostly gone too. Now this is just like the
local pilot's lounge - only with all the problems that the lack of non-
written communication, the remoteness, the open access, and the
effective anonymity causes. Thus, mostly not worth it. Just
something to do when you can't make it out to the airport and hang out
at the pilot's lounge. And thus the appeal to the has-beens and never-
were's. Those still active in GA have mostly moved on.

Michael

[Dave[_1_]]

Wow..

Lots of words Michael, all of them good..Thanks for posting...

I was going to post as well, but I will be lazy and say "DITTO" :)

SOME of us still use usenet as we were having a conversation face to
face..

I just MIGHT have the chance to meet some of you some day,

(I would LOVE to see Jay's Inn.., and if Iam ever close enough, I
will ! )

So it may happen, and I don't want to have to duck...

Cheers!

Dave




On Thu, 22 May 2008 06:49:04 -0700 (PDT), Michael
> wrote:

>On May 22, 12:50*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>> I realized that these trolls, these wannabe
>> pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic.
>
>Trolls always are. But then, we've always had them, for as long as
>there has been usenet.
>They never mattered much.
>
>> Something's got to change.
>
>Something already has. Just not for the better.
>
>Jay, I remember when you showed up here. Things were already well on
>their way downhill - all that kept us going was inertia. There was a
>time when usenet was different.
>
>There was a time when we all posted with our real names. Now, the
>only ones who can safely do so are the retired and self-employed,
>those still in school, and those lucky few who work for sparklingly
>sane organizations where a complaint that you are posting to usenet
>during working hours can't possibly get any traction. There was a
>time when making a complaint like that against another poster was
>unthinkable - and then came the era of the fish, and even those who
>could not see the writing on the wall before went anonymous.
>
>There was a time when conversations were mostly worthwhile here.
>People might be wrong, but they were generally not grossly ignorant or
>stupid. There might be heated debate, but it was debate, not name-
>calling. It's not that trolling, flaming, and other such stupidity
>didn't happen - it did - but it was far more rare, and generally done
>with more style.
>
>So what changed?
>
>It used to be that there was a barrier to entry. If you wanted to
>access usenet, you needed to be able to handle a shell account - unix,
>VMS, something. You needed to make an effort - because there were not
>commercials all over the place for internet access. There was a self-
>selection process, and it selected for those who were comfortable with
>computers - and thus with a more logical, less emotional style of
>thinking and communicating.
>
>This is absolutely essential to a usenet discussion. In real life
>discussion, we have limits on how nasty a discussion can get. There
>are time limits - discussions can't usually drag on for hours, never
>mind days. There are participant limits - you can't really have an
>unmoderated discussion with more than a few people. There are
>personal limits - at some point, you risk getting punched in the face,
>but long before you get to that point, there will be body language
>telling you to back off. Threre are limits to what you can claim -
>everyone has met you and knows who you are. Finally, there is the
>basic limit - if someone is a pain, you can just not invite him again.
>
>All this is lacking in usenet, and the only way to compensate is a
>certain detachment and formalism - which is normal for interacting
>with a computer anyway. I am, of course, dating myself when I say
>this. These days, most people don't really interact with a computer -
>they're not using it to write code, analyze data, etc. They're using
>it as mostly a communication tool - think email, word processing, web,
>presentation. It's mostly just a way of interacting with other
>people. Even the games have gone that way - most of the popular ones
>are massively multiplayer. But it wasn't like that back then.
>
>This imposed a certain rigor on the discussion. You were typing into
>a computer, so you were less likely to type a poorly considered,
>emotional argument. You knew that a computer didn't care what
>credentials you held, so you didn't expect your credentials to impress
>anyone on the other side of the screen and knew that what you wrote
>would have to stand on its own merits. You knew that what you said
>would have to be well thought out, internally consistent, logical - or
>it would be rejected (as an error by a machine, and by ridicule on
>usenet) - and so you tried to think things through logically and
>eliminate inconsistency. That's gone now, and without that, usenet
>discussion can't survive.
>
>Of course there was always the exception. In September, the new
>college students would show up and get accounts on the university
>computers. Most were not used to using computers. Many would find
>usenet. Most would quickly discover that it wasn't their cup of tea.
>They discovered that if they weren't interested in participating in a
>logical, civil discussion of the topic at hand, they were in the
>minority and could expect to be ridiculed. Most disappeared. A few
>stayed, and became part of the usenet community.
>
>And then AOL opened the floodgates - all you needed was an AOL account
>with it's point-and-click interface, and you could access usenet.
>That was the September that never ended. It's been downhill ever
>since.
>
>The degeneration of this particular (aviation) usenet hierarchy has
>little or nothing to do with the declining number of pilots. Check
>the scuba and skydiving hierarchies - they are in far worse shape, and
>their numbers are growing, not shrinking and aging like ours. Most of
>the people I know who were serious contributors to the aviation groups
>and have since mostly faded out are still quite active in aviation.
>They are flying, building, fixing, and restoring aircraft. I know I
>am. They have not dropped out of aviation, but usenet - and you can't
>even pinpoint when it happened.
>
>Every once in a while, someone will announce - generally by starting a
>new thread with that topic - that he is leaving the group. It never
>really works that way. When someone does that, you can be sure he'll
>be back. People don't leave with a bang, but with a whimper. You
>will have a regular and prolific contributor that seems to be less
>regular, less prolific. Weeks, sometimes months pass by without a
>post - and then the posts are few and far between, and eventually you
>realize that he's not a regular anymore - he drops by every once in a
>while, but mostly he is gone.
>
>Usenet was once a place where you could have a higher quality of
>discussion than you could at the local pilot's lounge in the airport -
>the limited access assured that the people here were brighter than
>average. But that barrier to entry is long gone, and the people who
>preceded that barrier are mostly gone too. Now this is just like the
>local pilot's lounge - only with all the problems that the lack of non-
>written communication, the remoteness, the open access, and the
>effective anonymity causes. Thus, mostly not worth it. Just
>something to do when you can't make it out to the airport and hang out
>at the pilot's lounge. And thus the appeal to the has-beens and never-
>were's. Those still active in GA have mostly moved on.
>
>Michael

[BT]

I think Denny's point was... not wanting to put words into the OP mouth, but
to take a different reading.
The youth destroy their life with drugs.. before they realize what they have
done to their future.
BT

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Denny >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>
>>are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of
>>younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust
>>permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security
>>clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new
>>thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues
>>daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those
>>offenses is...
>>
>>denny
>
> denny is that a bad thing?
> drugs damage brains, often permanently.
> do you really want that in the air with you?
> I dont.
>
> I'm never in favour of an exclusive environment in aviation but it is
> an environment where death stalks the stupid. there are levels of
> knowledge and skill that must be met by participants in the
> environment if they are to live to retirement.
> they have to reach competence.
>
> Stealth Pilot

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

BT wrote:

>The youth destroy their life with drugs.. before they realize what they have
>done to their future.
> Stealth Pilot

As did we....well, some of us.

The thing I find is that the stuff we played with (weed, alcohol) didn't have
the effects like the stuff the kids are killing themselves with now.
I am astounded with what some of our young people are willing to ingest,
inject, inhale without any thought about the potential consequence.
I saw a lovely young girl 'bout 19 years old, community college student, good
girl looking forward to journalism school, inhaled something at a picnic,
fell down, convulsed for a little while, arrived in the ER a little blue,
spent some time in ICU, now will wear a diaper the rest of her life in
nursing facilities, half her brain turned to goo.

It breaks my heart.

I mean, in my time we were a little stupid and drunk or got the munchies for
a while but a few milligrams didn't melt our noodles.

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[NVArt]

On May 22, 9:56*am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote:
> BT wrote:
> >The youth destroy their life with drugs.. before they realize what they have
> >done to their future.
> > Stealth Pilot
>
> As did we....well, some of us.
>
> The thing I find is that the stuff we played with (weed, alcohol) didn't have
> the effects like the stuff the kids are killing themselves with now.
> I am astounded with what some of our young people are willing to ingest,
> inject, inhale without any thought about the potential consequence.
> I saw a lovely young girl 'bout 19 years old, community college student, good
> girl looking forward to journalism school, inhaled something at a picnic,
> fell down, convulsed for a little while, arrived in the ER a little blue,
> spent some time in ICU, now will wear a diaper the rest of her life in
> nursing facilities, half her brain turned to goo.
>
> It breaks my heart.
>
> I mean, in my time we were a little stupid and drunk or got the munchies for
> a while but a few milligrams didn't melt our noodles.
>
> --
> Message posted viahttp://www.aviationkb.com

perctri

[NVArt]

I counsel all young folks who will listen of the consequences of their
actions. They are followed virtually forever. With so many laws, so
zealously enforced, they can't live down small crimes. I mean, in the
forties, when a felon was released from the Pen, they gave him 20
bucks, a suit, and a bus ride somewhere. Today, they want keep track
of you forever. well, some government employee will have a job doing
it, but many of us will pay the taxes for his/her salary. Hell, if you
pee behind a pole and get caught, you're a sex offender, with
attendent registry and following......paid for by the taxpayers, of
which there are fewer, 'cuz of the aforementioned drug use, etc.
When I was growing up, reading Alley Oop, he'd hit a woman over the
head with a club and drag her back to his cave. Today, you have to
choose your listeners carefully to even remind them of this accepted
conditioning. Sure, we know it's a joke, but not all take it that way.
How 'bout when my neighbor got within three blocks of home before
smashing his new Olds into a light pole; Officer O'Reilly showed up
and dragged the drunk home by his ear. The missus administered
justice, for a long time. No DUI, sr22, classes, etc. All the
rigamerole today makes alot of jobs, but I'm not sure if we're better
off. Freedoms sure are diminished. While I'm at it, I remember a kid
that brought a GASP, GUNSTOCK, to school for refinishing in a shop
class. SHUDDER.... how could we even think such a thing
today?
I'd like to meet Jay and his family someday. I've got more than a
feeling he's doin' it right. anersI thank him for his postings.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-05-22, BDS > wrote:
> Our home base is starting to look like a ghost town. The ramp used to be
> brimming with aircraft and it's so sparsely populated now it's actually
> depressing.

All of the hangars at FRM are occupied (though one is currently occupied by
a couple of the airport manager's boats, which will be moved to make room
for my airplane)...but nothing lives on the ramp, and there is a distinct
lack of hangar flying in the evenings I've been out there.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[[email protected]]

On May 22, 10:56 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote:
> BT wrote:
> >The youth destroy their life with drugs.. before they realize what they have
> >done to their future.
> > Stealth Pilot
>
> As did we....well, some of us.
>
> The thing I find is that the stuff we played with (weed, alcohol) didn't have
> the effects like the stuff the kids are killing themselves with now.
> I am astounded with what some of our young people are willing to ingest,
> inject, inhale without any thought about the potential consequence.
> I saw a lovely young girl 'bout 19 years old, community college student, good
> girl looking forward to journalism school, inhaled something at a picnic,
> fell down, convulsed for a little while, arrived in the ER a little blue,
> spent some time in ICU, now will wear a diaper the rest of her life in
> nursing facilities, half her brain turned to goo.
>
> It breaks my heart.
>
> I mean, in my time we were a little stupid and drunk or got the munchies for
> a while but a few milligrams didn't melt our noodles.
>
> --
> Message posted viahttp://www.aviationkb.com

Some of us (me) didn't mess with drugs or alcohol or tobacco or
other such dumb stuff, but we, being of sound mind and body, did other
things that were almost as stupid. I sold heavy truck and earthmover
parts for nine years when I was young, and would lift 200 or more
pounds without any pain whatever. And stack it higher than my head.
Would do that all day. The older guys said "you're gonna wreck your
back doing that" but I did it anyway. "Doesn't hurt," I said. "Don't
feel a thing." But I wore my joints out and now I have arthritis, have
had it for almost ten years. I'm 55. Sold myself cheap.
Youth is like that. It will live forever, it's invulnerable,
it can do anything and can keep doing it into old age. Or so it
thinks. Youth doesn't listen to the old fuddy-duddies who usually turn
out to have known a lot more than we gave them credit for. Now my
young students look at me funny when I tell them that "you're gonna
wish you hadn't done that." We were all young and did stupid things.
Some are still paying for it.

Dan

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Kloudy wrote:

>
>I mean, in my time we were a little stupid and drunk or got the munchies for
>a while but a few milligrams didn't melt our noodles.


to be clearer.
" a few milligrams of whatever would not melt our noodles like the stuff kids
are taking these days."

Told one of my patients, " ya know that stuff is made by a loser with a 6th
grade education in his trailer out of stuff ya get from Home Depot. Ya still
wanna smoke it?"

Got one or two to think about it.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200805/1

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> All of the hangars at FRM are occupied (though one is currently occupied
> by
> a couple of the airport manager's boats, which will be moved to make room
> for my airplane)...but nothing lives on the ramp, and there is a distinct
> lack of hangar flying in the evenings I've been out there.

It's funny -- all the hangars in Iowa City are occupied, and there's
actually a small waiting list for them -- but no one is flying. People
still want planes, but they apparently can't afford to fly them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>Jay, I remember when you showed up here. Things were already well on
>their way downhill - all that kept us going was inertia. There was a
>time when usenet was different.

Thanks for the great post, Michael. After ten years here it's sometimes
hard to remember that there are guys who have been here MUCH longer than me.

Your points about the group needing to be somewhat limited-access are valid,
and it's one of the reasons I find myself hanging out on the Cherokee Pilots
Association's Cherokee Chat more and more. There, you must be a
dues-paying member to post, and everyone pretty much knows each other by
name. As a result, even though political and off-topic posts *do*
occasionally occur, they are done in a more mannered and cultured way.

Unfortunately, (and this is also it's strength) the group is 100%-focused on
Cherokees, which tends to limit the discussion.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Andrew Sarangan]

On May 22, 8:34 am, Stealth Pilot >
wrote:
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Denny >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of
> >younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust
> >permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security
> >clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new
> >thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues
> >daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those
> >offenses is...
>
> >denny
>
> denny is that a bad thing?
> drugs damage brains, often permanently.
> do you really want that in the air with you?
> I dont.
>

So does alcohol. One could be a wife-beating alcoholic with liver
disease but he can legally fly after 8 hours.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:HonZj.175525$yE1.117676@attbi_s21:

>>Jay, I remember when you showed up here. Things were already well on
>>their way downhill - all that kept us going was inertia. There was a
>>time when usenet was different.
>
> Thanks for the great post, Michael. After ten years here it's
> sometimes hard to remember that there are guys who have been here MUCH
> longer than me.
>

Me, for instance.


Bertie

[Denny]

The youth destroy their life with drugs.. before they realize what
they have
done to their future.
BT


Well said BT... Somehow I managed to not communicate well in my
post...

denny

[Denny]

> All of the hangars at FRM are occupied (though one is currently occupied by
> a couple of the airport manager's boats, which will be moved to make room
> for my airplane)...but nothing lives on the ramp, and there is a distinct
> lack of hangar flying in the evenings I've been out there.

We have boats, RV's, trailers, and furniture accupying some of the
hangars.. Others are empty... Anyone who wants a twin size hangar for
their plane, it's a hundred bucks a month...
Gawd help Michigan...

denny

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-05-23, Denny > wrote:
>> All of the hangars at FRM are occupied (though one is currently occupied by
>> a couple of the airport manager's boats, which will be moved to make room
>> for my airplane)...but nothing lives on the ramp, and there is a distinct
>> lack of hangar flying in the evenings I've been out there.
> We have boats, RV's, trailers, and furniture accupying some of the
> hangars.. Others are empty... Anyone who wants a twin size hangar for
> their plane, it's a hundred bucks a month...

That's what the desirable hangars are going for at FRM. I'll be paying $70.
(The main difference is that mine will face north; they tell me that will
make clearing the snow from immediately in front of it so I can pull the
plane out harder.)
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> We have boats, RV's, trailers, and furniture accupying some of the
> hangars.. Others are empty...

Our airport commission went on the warpath against that sort of improper
storage a few years ago, which then morphed into a particularly nasty
campaign against EVERYTHING that was deemed to be "superfluous" in hangars.
The debate eventually devolved to the point where the commission was
considering banning BICYCLES in hangars -- at which point the utter
absurdity of their mission became obvious, and the effort collapsed.

> Anyone who wants a twin size hangar for
> their plane, it's a hundred bucks a month...
> Gawd help Michigan...

Yep, Michigan is in dire straits, largely apparently of its own
construction. Your politicians have (according to my sister, a long-term
resident of Lansing) shown a remarkable knack for making a bad situation
worse...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[xyzzy]

On May 22, 9:47 am, "BDS" > wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote...
> > > Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not
> > > flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed
> > > back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading
> > > cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight...
>
> > Yep, it's already happening. Our flight of two last night represented the
> > only aircraft flying at Muscatine Muni, on a picture-perfect gorgeous
> spring
> > evening.
>
> > Iowa City was somewhat busier, with four of us arriving in the pattern at
> > sunset, but that's always a good time to watch traffic, with everyone
> trying
> > to get down before darkness sets in.
>
> > It's getting harder to enjoy the warm afterglow of a flight well-done.
>
> Our home base is starting to look like a ghost town. The ramp used to be
> brimming with aircraft and it's so sparsely populated now it's actually
> depressing.

Happily, the opposite is happening at my home base (KTTA). We have a
45+ year old nonprofit flying club (that I belong to) with about 200
members and 10 planes on the ramp. Next door to us on the ramp is the
U.S. headquarters of Fantasy Air (sellers of the Allegro LSA). The
airport authority is planning to build more T-hangars and the ramp is
full of planes.

Our flying club's monthly cookouts and bi-monthly safety meetings are
open to the public and attendance has been increasing, with several
dozen guests in addition to club members. On a nice day our pattern
buzzes like a beehive. with Allegro demo flights, club flights, and
other traffic. The club's 152's were having an availability problem
until we just bought another one, as are our instructors (we're
cajoling former club to come back part time) and we always seem to
have a large cadre of student pilots.

I don't know all the reasons why we are so lucky and don't know how to
bottle it for other aviation communities but some things in our favor:

1. The flying club and the LSA dealer provide a solid nucleus for a GA
community. The flying club is a nonprofit and endeavors to keep rates
low (currently ranging from something like just under $70 for a 152 to
about $155 for a Mooney, wet). The FBO doesn't do much flight
instruction but runs a very well-regarded repair shop, and we also
have an avionics shop on the field.

2. The airport's owners (the county) are enthusiastically pro-aviation
and supportive of the airport, because they see it as a part of their
economic development strategy, and oh yeah it helps that a local
tycoon who owns a jet based on the field is on the airport
authority.

3. The airport, which was built from scratch in 1999, has few
neighbors, and (most important probably) especially none in the
approach and departure paths, except for the Sheriff's firing range
(which never complains about aircraft noise :)

4. Nearby metro areas with good highway access have a good economy and
lots of wealth and high-tech employment.

It could be (unfortunately) that what's really happening is that
what's left of the region's aviation culture is consolidating at our
field (perhaps because of the above factors). There are several
similar fields in the area, and none of them are doing as well and in
fact most of them seem to be declining. The field where the flying
club used to be (IGX) is in danger of being closed by the university
that owns it, and FBOs are struggling at other airports in the
area.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Happily, the opposite is happening at my home base (KTTA).

For future reference, it's always nice to include the name of your home
base, since not everyone knows you're in Sanford, North Carolina!

> I don't know all the reasons why we are so lucky and don't know how to
> bottle it for other aviation communities but some things in our favor:
>
> 1. The flying club and the LSA dealer provide a solid nucleus for a GA
> community. The flying club is a nonprofit and endeavors to keep rates

This is hugely important. The flying club is, well, a CLUB, and is
therefore focused on its membership. This is inherently a much more
sociable arrangement than a bunch of individuals renting tin shacks on a hot
asphalt tarmac, and is yet another big reason why we're starting a small
flying club here in Iowa City.

> 2. The airport's owners (the county) are enthusiastically pro-aviation

Again, this is hugely important, and increasingly rare. An example of our
city's ANTI-airport sentiment -- the American Barnstormers Tour is coming
here next month, for a two-day appearance. The city's "risk manager" (what
the hell is THAT?) announced that she will require them to carry a FIVE
MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for those two days!

No one knows what will happen, but those barnstormers are just guys like me
and you, operating on a shoe-string. They don't have any way of purchasing
that kind of liability insurance, if it's even available.

> It could be (unfortunately) that what's really happening is that
> what's left of the region's aviation culture is consolidating at our
> field (perhaps because of the above factors).

I'd be willing to bet that this is happening everywhere.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gene Seibel]

On May 21, 10:50*pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big piece
> of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the current, and
> pondering life.
> --
> Jay Honeck

Nice reminder of what it's all about.

This last week we moved into our dream home. One mile from our hangar
on St Louis Regional Airport - a fabulous little towered airport with
102 based aircraft and a thriving flight school. Just outside our
office window is the spot where students and old-timers alike pull
power on left downwind for 17. Scanner chatter fills in all the behind
the scenes details. We can be pulling the Cherokee out of the hangar 5
minutes after stepping off our front porch. Life is good as you know.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

[Tom Conner]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:G8nZj.121411$TT4.52000@attbi_s22...
> > All of the hangars at FRM are occupied (though one is currently occupied
> > by
> > a couple of the airport manager's boats, which will be moved to make
room
> > for my airplane)...but nothing lives on the ramp, and there is a
distinct
> > lack of hangar flying in the evenings I've been out there.
>
> It's funny -- all the hangars in Iowa City are occupied, and there's
> actually a small waiting list for them -- but no one is flying. People
> still want planes, but they apparently can't afford to fly them.
>

Apparently, the use of a item goes first, and, eventually, the item itself
goes after the owner wonders why they are paying for something that is not
being used.

[F. Baum]

On May 21, 10:50*pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big piece
> of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the current, and
> pondering life.
>
> We had flown here in Atlas, our Cherokee Pathfinder -- a flight that took a
> whopping twenty minutes. *We'd made the flight a hundred times, over the
> last eleven years ---- but every now and then
> something made it different.
>
> Tonight was different.

Whoa, thats heavy <G>

>
> We had flown there as a flight of two, with close friends. *They had brought
> their baby and toddler with them, while we had flown with our daughter, who
> has been flying with us since birth. *The evening was sublime, with the sun
> a low, glowing orb in the sky.

Speakin of orbs, if you were a real pilot, you would have ditched the
women/kids, flown over with your budy, then called home and said
(Insert excuse, Bad WX, rough mag, flat tire, etc) so you wouldnt be
home that nite. Then instead of pecan pie, you and your flying buddy
would be downing shots and beers at the nudie bars all nite. Then fly
home the next day in time to show face at the office for a couple of
hours. What are airplanes for man? *


> As I watched the great river roll by, at the end of gorgeous, late-spring
> flight, eating home-made pecan pie with family and friends, I thought of the
> trolls who have done such damage here, and was overwhelmed with sadness for
> them.

You'll get over it. It does kinda make you wonder which is worse, MX
or the guys like Viperdoc who seem to spend a dispraportionate amount
of his life bashing MX.

> Touching down lightly back in Iowa City,
> however, taxiing past the Ercoupe that we've offered to buy, pushing the
> plane back into the hangar, I realized that these trolls, these wannabe
> pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic.

So thats how you do it ? Touch down lightly ? Ive always thought that
to make a good landing you should touch down really smooth. Guess Im
not the only one with this view.

>
> Something's got to change. *Aviation is a tiny, ever-shrinking group, with
> diminishing political clout and threats on all sides. *This group has, in
> the past, represented the best of the piloting community, and we simply
> can't waste any more of our time tussling with trolls and malcontents.
> Ignore 'em, kill file 'em, do what you gotta do -- but do NOT engage them.

Dude, your preaching again <G>. Unfortunatly, Usnet is the only outlet
for some because if they pulled this **** at the pilots lounge no one
would listen. Guess you gotta put up with some backround noise if you
participate here.

>
> Take the high road, please -- we've simply got to fix this!

Ill do my part.
> --
> Jay Honeck

F Baum

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>Speakin of orbs, if you were a real pilot, you would have ditched the
>women/kids, flown over with your budy, then called home and said
>(Insert excuse, Bad WX, rough mag, flat tire, etc) so you wouldnt be
>home that nite. Then instead of pecan pie, you and your flying buddy
>would be downing shots and beers at the nudie bars all nite. Then fly
>home the next day in time to show face at the office for a couple of
>hours. What are airplanes for man?

I'll file that away for future reference!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <A5NZj.123099$TT4.122361@attbi_s22>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> >Speakin of orbs, if you were a real pilot, you would have ditched the
> >women/kids, flown over with your budy, then called home and said
> >(Insert excuse, Bad WX, rough mag, flat tire, etc) so you wouldnt be
> >home that nite. Then instead of pecan pie, you and your flying buddy
> >would be downing shots and beers at the nudie bars all nite. Then fly
> >home the next day in time to show face at the office for a couple of
> >hours. What are airplanes for man?
>
> I'll file that away for future reference!

You are SO lucky Mary doesn't read usenet....

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:gY6Zj.120326$TT4.686@attbi_s22:

> I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big
> piece of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the
> current, and pondering life.
>
> We had flown here in Atlas, our Cherokee Pathfinder -- a flight that
> took a whopping twenty minutes. We'd made the flight a hundred times,
> over the last eleven years -- it's out default
> "rather-go-somewhere-than-fly-the-pattern" flight -- but every now and
> then something made it different.
>
> Tonight was different.
>
> We had flown there as a flight of two, with close friends. They had
> brought their baby and toddler with them, while we had flown with our
> daughter, who has been flying with us since birth. The evening was
> sublime, with the sun a low, glowing orb in the sky. The flight had
> been wondrous.
>
> Instead of eating dinner, we had decided to pick up homemade pies from
> a favorite restaurant, milk from a convenience store, and take
> everything down to a riverside park. It was decadent and unhealthy,
> and the kids loved it.
>
> So, I sat, eating pecan pie, watching the river flow by, watching the
> kids play...and my thoughts turned strangely to the folks on this
> newsgroup. Memories of all the great folks who have taught me so much,
> all the people who have shared their flying experiences here...and all
> the folks who have so recently brought this great group to its knees.
>
> As I watched the great river roll by, at the end of gorgeous,
> late-spring flight, eating home-made pecan pie with family and
> friends, I thought of the trolls who have done such damage here, and
> was overwhelmed with sadness for them. I realized that these folks
> would never, ever, feel the joy of flying over a late spring
> landscape, of watching the sun low over the Mississippi River. They
> would never know what it's like to push the throttle forward and feel
> the acceleration pushing you back in your seat, of the wheels getting
> light right before the wings take over and the plane arks strongly
> into a crystal clear sky.
>
> Later, as I banked over that big river, so different looking from up
> here, the water fowl scattering far below, thoughts of this group
> faded to insignificance, as they should. Touching down lightly back
> in Iowa City, however, taxiing past the Ercoupe that we've offered to
> buy, pushing the plane back into the hangar, I realized that these
> trolls, these wannabe pilots and former pilots, are quite simply
> pathetic. They spend endless hours here, talking about things they'll
> never know, asking questions they don't want answered, sniping,
> hating, filling their days with pointless personal attacks, and --
> worst of all -- drowning out and discouraging all the good people
> here.
>
> Something's got to change. Aviation is a tiny, ever-shrinking group,
> with diminishing political clout and threats on all sides. This group
> has, in the past, represented the best of the piloting community, and
> we simply can't waste any more of our time tussling with trolls and
> malcontents. Ignore 'em, kill file 'em, do what you gotta do -- but do
> NOT engage them.
>
> Take the high road, please -- we've simply got to fix this!

OH, and BTW, ex pilot?

Not likely.

And you never were one and never will be, Cherokee boi.



Bertie

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> I'll file that away for future reference!
>
> You are SO lucky Mary doesn't read usenet....

Heh, heh, heh.

Yep!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"F. Baum" > wrote in
:

> On May 21, 10:50*pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>> I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big
>> piec
> e
>> of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the
>> current, a
> nd
>> pondering life.
>>
>> We had flown here in Atlas, our Cherokee Pathfinder -- a flight that
>> took
> a
>> whopping twenty minutes. *We'd made the flight a hundred times, over
>> the
>
>> last eleven years ---- but every now and then
>> something made it different.
>>
>> Tonight was different.
>
> Whoa, thats heavy <G>
>
>>
>> We had flown there as a flight of two, with close friends. *They had
>> bro
> ught
>> their baby and toddler with them, while we had flown with our
>> daughter, wh
> o
>> has been flying with us since birth. *The evening was sublime, with
>> the
> sun
>> a low, glowing orb in the sky.
>
> Speakin of orbs, if you were a real pilot, you would have ditched the
> women/kids, flown over with your budy, then called home and said
> (Insert excuse, Bad WX, rough mag, flat tire, etc) so you wouldnt be
> home that nite. Then instead of pecan pie, you and your flying buddy
> would be downing shots and beers at the nudie bars all nite. Then fly
> home the next day in time to show face at the office for a couple of
> hours. What are airplanes for man? *
>
>
>> As I watched the great river roll by, at the end of gorgeous,
>> late-spring flight, eating home-made pecan pie with family and
>> friends, I thought of t
> he
>> trolls who have done such damage here, and was overwhelmed with
>> sadness fo
> r
>> them.
>
> You'll get over it. It does kinda make you wonder which is worse, MX
> or the guys like Viperdoc who seem to spend a dispraportionate amount
> of his life bashing MX.
>
>> Touching down lightly back in Iowa City,
>> however, taxiing past the Ercoupe that we've offered to buy, pushing
>> the plane back into the hangar, I realized that these trolls, these
>> wannabe pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic.
>
> So thats how you do it ? Touch down lightly ? Ive always thought that
> to make a good landing you should touch down really smooth. Guess Im
> not the only one with this view.
>
>>
>> Something's got to change. *Aviation is a tiny, ever-shrinking group,
>> wi
> th
>> diminishing political clout and threats on all sides. *This group
>> has, i
> n
>> the past, represented the best of the piloting community, and we
>> simply can't waste any more of our time tussling with trolls and
>> malcontents. Ignore 'em, kill file 'em, do what you gotta do -- but
>> do NOT engage them.
>
>
> Dude, your preaching again <G>. Unfortunatly, Usnet is the only outlet
> for some because if they pulled this **** at the pilots lounge no one
> would listen. Guess you gotta put up with some backround noise if you
> participate here.
>
>>
>> Take the high road, please -- we've simply got to fix this!
>
> Ill do my part.


Bwawhahwhawahwhahwhahwhahhw!

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:gY6Zj.120326$TT4.686@attbi_s22:

> I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big
> piece of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the
> current, and pondering life.
>
> We had flown here in Atlas, our Cherokee Pathfinder -- a flight that
> took a whopping twenty minutes. We'd made the flight a hundred times,
> over the last eleven years -- it's out default
> "rather-go-somewhere-than-fly-the-pattern" flight -- but every now and
> then something made it different.
>
> Tonight was different.
>
> We had flown there as a flight of two, with close friends. They had
> brought their baby and toddler with them, while we had flown with our
> daughter, who has been flying with us since birth. The evening was
> sublime, with the sun a low, glowing orb in the sky. The flight had
> been wondrous.
>
> Instead of eating dinner, we had decided to pick up homemade pies from
> a favorite restaurant, milk from a convenience store, and take
> everything down to a riverside park. It was decadent and unhealthy,
> and the kids loved it.
>
> So, I sat, eating pecan pie, watching the river flow by, watching the
> kids play...and my thoughts turned strangely to the folks on this
> newsgroup. Memories of all the great folks who have taught me so much,
> all the people who have shared their flying experiences here...and all
> the folks who have so recently brought this great group to its knees.
>
> As I watched the great river roll by, at the end of gorgeous,
> late-spring flight, eating home-made pecan pie with family and
> friends, I thought of the trolls who have done such damage here, and
> was overwhelmed with sadness for them. I realized that these folks
> would never, ever, feel the joy of flying over a late spring
> landscape, of watching the sun low over the Mississippi River. They
> would never know what it's like to push the throttle forward and feel
> the acceleration pushing you back in your seat, of the wheels getting
> light right before the wings take over and the plane arks strongly
> into a crystal clear sky.
>
> Later, as I banked over that big river, so different looking from up
> here, the water fowl scattering far below, thoughts of this group
> faded to insignificance, as they should. Touching down lightly back
> in Iowa City, however, taxiing past the Ercoupe that we've offered to
> buy, pushing the plane back into the hangar, I realized that these
> trolls, these wannabe pilots and former pilots, are quite simply
> pathetic. They spend endless hours here, talking about things they'll
> never know, asking questions they don't want answered, sniping,
> hating, filling their days with pointless personal attacks, and --
> worst of all -- drowning out and discouraging all the good people
> here.
>
> Something's got to change. Aviation is a tiny, ever-shrinking group,
> with diminishing political clout and threats on all sides. This group
> has, in the past, represented the best of the piloting community, and
> we simply can't waste any more of our time tussling with trolls and
> malcontents. Ignore 'em, kill file 'em, do what you gotta do -- but do
> NOT engage them.
>
> Take the high road, please -- we've simply got to fix this!


You are an idiot.

And you engage me all the time, fjukkwit.

You just don't know it.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:FrWZj.177969
$yE1.102272@attbi_s21:

>>> I'll file that away for future reference!
>>
>> You are SO lucky Mary doesn't read usenet....
>
> Heh, heh, heh.
>
> Yep!
>
>:-)

I could cc her via e-mail, if you're worried she's missing out..


Bertie

[Martin Hotze[_2_]]

Jay Honeck schrieb:
>>> I'll file that away for future reference!
>> You are SO lucky Mary doesn't read usenet....
>
> Heh, heh, heh.
>
> Yep!


Well, a real man has the balls and tells his wife.

#m

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> And you engage me all the time, fjukkwit.
>
> You just don't know it.
>
>
>
> Bertie
>

You're either a lying piece of **** or completely deranged. Jay hasn't said
**** to you, directly or indirectly in months.

Your pathetic cries are actually kind of funny, in an mxsmanic kind of way.

[Jack Allison]

Mmmm, pie as part of a flying adventure. Toss in a river and a lazy
evening. Sounds good Jay.

Yep, signal to noise ratio keeps going lower. Sad but true. As time
goes on it seems like I'm ignoring more garbage from more people. Even
so, I still enjoy the friendships established over the years of reading
r.a.* and meeting several of the folks that regularly post here.

IMHO, Ignoring/kill filing/whatever works is the best course of action.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Student - CP-ASEL

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-05-23, xyzzy > wrote:
> Our flying club's monthly cookouts and bi-monthly safety meetings are
> open to the public and attendance has been increasing, with several
>....

The secret, as such, absolutely is community. We had that at Houston
Gulf airport - I'd often go there just for a bit of hangar flying (note:
the f is silent in hangar flying) because people would hang out there.
Inevitably, although we'd go there to socialise a bit, aviating would
ultimately break out - with perhaps a few plane loads going down to
Brazoria for dinner (once we had a bizarre formation flight - a Cessna
140 as lead, mixed in with an Arrow, a C170, a Bonanza(!) and a Grumman
Cheetah. Going on a short cross country at 85 knots in a Bonanza is
....well, different.

That's why it was such a tragedy when developers bought Houston Gulf to
put McMansions there - it wasn't the loss of an airport, it was the
destruction of a community because it scattered the club and the
aircraft owners around several airfields, basically breaking it all up.

If you get a proper community going, then people go to the airport to go
to the airport and see their friends, rather than thinking 'well, I
can't be bothered to go and do a local flight in the FBO's spam can'.
When you get a group of pilots socializing at an airport, aviating tends
to spontaneously occur at some point.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-05-24, Dylan Smith > wrote:
> If you get a proper community going, then people go to the airport to go
> to the airport and see their friends, rather than thinking 'well, I
> can't be bothered to go and do a local flight in the FBO's spam can'.
> When you get a group of pilots socializing at an airport, aviating tends
> to spontaneously occur at some point.

There was a lot of that at the Ellington Field while I was a member. I can't
even find mention of the club any more.

It's that kind of thing I'd like to see out at FRM, and haven't...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> And you engage me all the time, fjukkwit.
>>
>> You just don't know it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> You're either a lying piece of **** or completely deranged. Jay hasn't
> said **** to you, directly or indirectly in months.
>

Oh? i hadn't noticed/


> Your pathetic cries are actually kind of funny, in an mxsmanic kind of
> way.
>
>
Really? Says more about you than me, fjukkwit.





Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

Martin Hotze > wrote in news:g19h88$1p8$1
@kirk.hotze.com:

> Jay Honeck schrieb:
>>>> I'll file that away for future reference!
>>> You are SO lucky Mary doesn't read usenet....
>>
>> Heh, heh, heh.
>>
>> Yep!
>
>
> Well, a real man has the balls and tells his wife.
>
> #m
>

Mine sees some of what I poast and thinks it's a sin tht i torment the
afflicted.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Nomen Nescio > wrote in
:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Martin Hotze >
>
>>Well, a real man has the balls and tells his wife.
>>
>>#m
>
> For once, Martin, I'm in agreement with you 100%.
> I have a hard, fast, no exceptions, rule that has kept my marriage
> together for decades.........If I won't tell my wife I did it, I don't
> do it.
>
> Hell, one time many years ago, I was doing the "Night out at the titty
> bars" thing with some friends and my wife invited herself along to see
> what goes on there. My friends enjoyed her company, she had a good
> time, and I wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as I thought I'd be.
> Her curiosity satisfied, she's never asked to go along again and just
> says "Have fun, Darling".
> On occasion, she'll add a description of what she'll be wearing to bed
> and suggests I wake her up when I get home. :)


Way too much info or not enough. i haven't decided.



Bertie

[Margy Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> I'll file that away for future reference!
>>
>>
>> You are SO lucky Mary doesn't read usenet....
>
>
> Heh, heh, heh.
> Yep!
>
> :-)
Yeah, but she is a pilot and she knows how to interpret the weather, you
better have a rough running mag. Of course in the morning it oddly
burns right off.

BTW YOU would never get away with it.

Margy

[Blanche]

Jay Maynard > wrote:
>On 2008-05-22, BDS > wrote:
>> Our home base is starting to look like a ghost town. The ramp used to be
>> brimming with aircraft and it's so sparsely populated now it's actually
>> depressing.
>
>All of the hangars at FRM are occupied (though one is currently occupied by
>a couple of the airport manager's boats, which will be moved to make room
>for my airplane)...but nothing lives on the ramp, and there is a distinct
>lack of hangar flying in the evenings I've been out there.

Only aircraft on the ramp at FTG are those stranded by a school going
under, a couple for sale, and a couple that don't know any better. Every
time I think I'll give up the hangar and move to the ramp (and save
$200/mo) we get a hail storm. Gotta love the hangar!

Come to think of it, the hangars are full, but there's quite a number
of empty foreclosures in my neighborhood of patio homes....

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> BTW YOU would never get away with it.

Don't I know it!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in news:2BJ_j.181484
$yE1.89268@attbi_s21:

>> BTW YOU would never get away with it.
>
> Don't I know it!
>
>:-)

Correct. You don't.


Bertie