Fear the Reaper

[gatt[_4_]]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Death from above. I know guys who gave up $10/hr tech support jobs who
are now flying these things. Seems tempting, but, I'm tired of the
office life. On the other hand, at least it would be for a good cause.


-c

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:09:49 -0700, gatt
> wrote in
>:

>
>http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
>
>Death from above. I know guys who gave up $10/hr tech support jobs who
>are now flying these things. Seems tempting, but, I'm tired of the
>office life. On the other hand, at least it would be for a good cause.
>
>-c

It sort of increases the impersonalization the bombing of people. 500#
bombs are targeted from half way around the world by kids.

How long will it be before something similar is used domestically for
ATF raids and boarder enforcement (or traffic citations)?


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCText
The newly declassified video shows a 500-pound bomb slamming into
a suspected Taliban bunker in southern Afghanistan this year.

Another video clip shows a 500-pound bomb, aimed and fired by a
pilot at Creech Air Force Base in the Nevada desert, striking two
insurgents in Afghanistan as they try to escape on a motorcycle.

"It flies higher. It flies faster. It carries more of a weapons
load," said Lt. Gen. Norman Seip, commander of the 12th Air Force
at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Arizona. "They're flying long,
they are flying hard and they are making a big impact."


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
Watch drones blast unsuspecting targets


--> Critics argue that any aircraft carrying weapons should only be
flown by certified pilots.

The Air Force has reduced manpower demands by letting pilots in
the United States operate the planes through satellite links
supported by ground crews closer to the battlefield.

The Air Force has reassigned pilots from other aircraft, and the
Air National Guard has also accelerated its Predator commitment in
five states, the Air Force said.

It will establish a second Predator training squadron and a
Predator weapons instructor course in early 2009, the Air Force
said.



Don't Miss

* Pakistan protests killer missile strike

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/pakistan.protest.ap/index.html

* Drone crashes in southern Iraq
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.main/index.html

[More_Flaps]

On May 24, 10:11*am, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:09:49 -0700, gatt
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
>
> >Death from above. I know guys who gave up $10/hr tech support jobs who
> >are now flying these things. * Seems tempting, but, I'm tired of the
> >office life. *On the other hand, at least it would be for a good cause.
>
> >-c
>
> It sort of increases the impersonalization the bombing of people. 500#
> bombs are targeted from half way around the world by kids. *
>
> How long will it be before something similar is used domestically for
> ATF raids and boarder enforcement (or traffic citations)?
>
> * *http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCText
> * * The newly declassified video shows a 500-pound bomb slamming into
> * * a suspected Taliban bunker in southern Afghanistan this year.
>
> * * Another video clip shows a 500-pound bomb, aimed and fired by a
> * * pilot at Creech Air Force Base in the Nevada desert, striking two
> * * insurgents in Afghanistan as they try to escape on a motorcycle.
>
2 observations: Does it really warrant a 500# bomb to kill 2 men and
second how do they know they are not just civilians, -were they armed?
This sort of video war game is very very dangerous because it
dehumanises the act of killing.

Cheers

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

More_Flaps wrote:
> On May 24, 10:11 am, Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:09:49 -0700, gatt
>> > wrote in
>> >:
>>
>>
>>
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
>>> Death from above. I know guys who gave up $10/hr tech support jobs who
>>> are now flying these things. Seems tempting, but, I'm tired of the
>>> office life. On the other hand, at least it would be for a good cause.
>>> -c
>> It sort of increases the impersonalization the bombing of people. 500#
>> bombs are targeted from half way around the world by kids.
>>
>> How long will it be before something similar is used domestically for
>> ATF raids and boarder enforcement (or traffic citations)?
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCText
>> The newly declassified video shows a 500-pound bomb slamming into
>> a suspected Taliban bunker in southern Afghanistan this year.
>>
>> Another video clip shows a 500-pound bomb, aimed and fired by a
>> pilot at Creech Air Force Base in the Nevada desert, striking two
>> insurgents in Afghanistan as they try to escape on a motorcycle.
>>
> 2 observations: Does it really warrant a 500# bomb to kill 2 men and
> second how do they know they are not just civilians, -were they armed?
> This sort of video war game is very very dangerous because it
> dehumanises the act of killing.
>
> Cheers
>
Is there REALLY a humanized side to killing? Even soldiers, and this
would include every one I've ever known, when they come back from combat
that has involved killing, (and I mean killing the enemy not civilians)
are never quite the same again. All have suffered some form of
dehumanization process.

--
Dudley Henriques

[More_Flaps]

On May 25, 5:55*am, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
> More_Flaps wrote:
> > On May 24, 10:11 am, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> >> On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:09:49 -0700, gatt
> >> > wrote in
> >> >:
>
> >>>http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
> >>> Death from above. I know guys who gave up $10/hr tech support jobs who
> >>> are now flying these things. * Seems tempting, but, I'm tired of the
> >>> office life. *On the other hand, at least it would be for a good cause.
> >>> -c
> >> It sort of increases the impersonalization the bombing of people. 500#
> >> bombs are targeted from half way around the world by kids. *
>
> >> How long will it be before something similar is used domestically for
> >> ATF raids and boarder enforcement (or traffic citations)?
>
> >> * *http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCText
> >> * * The newly declassified video shows a 500-pound bomb slamming into
> >> * * a suspected Taliban bunker in southern Afghanistan this year.
>
> >> * * Another video clip shows a 500-pound bomb, aimed and fired by a
> >> * * pilot at Creech Air Force Base in the Nevada desert, striking two
> >> * * insurgents in Afghanistan as they try to escape on a motorcycle..
>
> > 2 observations: Does it really warrant a 500# bomb to kill 2 men and
> > second how do they know they are not just civilians, -were they armed?
> > This sort of video war game is very very dangerous because it
> > dehumanises the act of killing.
>
> > Cheers
>
> Is there REALLY a humanized side to killing? Even soldiers, and this
> would include every one I've ever known, when they come back from combat
> that has involved killing, (and I mean killing the enemy not civilians)
> are never quite the same again. All have suffered some form of
> dehumanization process.
>

What I am getting at is that war should be hell and people should not
want to fight it nor politicians start it. If you accept the
popularity of shoot em up games, then to make the killing of a real
person just the same is a very very bad thing to do. Having heard
gunship pilots whooping with glee as they blew away men who could not
see them and whom were not positively identified as combatants in the
FLIR image, yes I would say that there is dehumanization present...

Cheers

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

More_Flaps wrote:
> On May 25, 5:55 am, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>> More_Flaps wrote:
>>> On May 24, 10:11 am, Larry Dighera > wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:09:49 -0700, gatt
>>>> > wrote in
>>>> >:
>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
>>>>> Death from above. I know guys who gave up $10/hr tech support jobs who
>>>>> are now flying these things. Seems tempting, but, I'm tired of the
>>>>> office life. On the other hand, at least it would be for a good cause.
>>>>> -c
>>>> It sort of increases the impersonalization the bombing of people. 500#
>>>> bombs are targeted from half way around the world by kids.
>>>> How long will it be before something similar is used domestically for
>>>> ATF raids and boarder enforcement (or traffic citations)?
>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/23/drone.wars/index.html#cnnSTCText
>>>> The newly declassified video shows a 500-pound bomb slamming into
>>>> a suspected Taliban bunker in southern Afghanistan this year.
>>>> Another video clip shows a 500-pound bomb, aimed and fired by a
>>>> pilot at Creech Air Force Base in the Nevada desert, striking two
>>>> insurgents in Afghanistan as they try to escape on a motorcycle.
>>> 2 observations: Does it really warrant a 500# bomb to kill 2 men and
>>> second how do they know they are not just civilians, -were they armed?
>>> This sort of video war game is very very dangerous because it
>>> dehumanises the act of killing.
>>> Cheers
>> Is there REALLY a humanized side to killing? Even soldiers, and this
>> would include every one I've ever known, when they come back from combat
>> that has involved killing, (and I mean killing the enemy not civilians)
>> are never quite the same again. All have suffered some form of
>> dehumanization process.
>>
>
> What I am getting at is that war should be hell

war IS hell.




and people should not
> want to fight it

few do, or at least the people I know anyway.




nor politicians start it.

Can't speak to the politicians. I hate politicians.

If you accept the
> popularity of shoot em up games, then to make the killing of a real
> person just the same is a very very bad thing to do.

When I was a child, we had cowboys and Indians. Same thing, simpler venue.



Having heard
> gunship pilots whooping with glee as they blew away men who could not
> see them and whom were not positively identified as combatants in the
> FLIR image, yes I would say that there is dehumanization present...

Full circle. War is hell.
>
> Cheers


--
Dudley Henriques

[Saville]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> Is there REALLY a humanized side to killing? Even soldiers, and this
> would include every one I've ever known, when they come back from combat
> that has involved killing, (and I mean killing the enemy not civilians)
> are never quite the same again. All have suffered some form of
> dehumanization process.
>


Actually the dehumanization comes before that and in a different way:

In order to not go crazy the first thing a lot (most? all?) soldiers do is
dehumanize the enemy.