TruTrak ADI current draw

[Hellman]

Several times on this newsgroup people have asked about the power
consumption of TruTrak's electronic artificial horizon (ADI), but
until now I haven't seen a definitive answer. (Apologies if I missed
it. I did do a search on the newsgroup before posting this.) I emailed
TruTrak and got the following answer:

> The current draw of the ADI is around 180 milliamps. It is nearly the same for both sizes.
> Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!

(I had asked if there was any difference between the 2-1/4" and the
3-1/8" models.) Not bad!

Martin
WT

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 27, 9:25 pm, Hellman > wrote:
> Several times on this newsgroup people have asked about the power
> consumption of TruTrak's electronic artificial horizon (ADI), but
> until now I haven't seen a definitive answer. (Apologies if I missed
> it. I did do a search on the newsgroup before posting this.) I emailed
> TruTrak and got the following answer:
>
> > The current draw of the ADI is around 180 milliamps. It is nearly the same for both sizes.
> > Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!
>
> (I had asked if there was any difference between the 2-1/4" and the
> 3-1/8" models.) Not bad!
>
> Martin
> WT

My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
rate thermalling?

Darryl

[JJ Sinclair]

I have been flying with the TruTrack for a year now and find it just
what I want. I use it when getting close to shear lines marked by Q's
that don't have a firm base and step-up 1000 feet from one side to the
other, like we get all the time here in the Mendacino Mountains. It is
instant-on and it can be turned on while in a bank...............comes
right up to show your correct bank angle. It looks like a gyro, but
shows no pitch information. I have had it on for 30 minutes and it
always showed the correct attitude. Plenty good enough to execute a
180 in order to get out of an unexpected IFR situation, just maintain
your cruise speed which will keep the pitch under control and crank it
around using the TruTrack....................Please no hate-mail about
the FAR's, I use it just in case I'm fiddling with the computer one
day and suddenly find everything has turned gray!
JJ

My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
> in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
> horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
> pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
> significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
> Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
> indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
> rate thermalling?
>
> Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 28, 6:52 am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> I have been flying with the TruTrack for a year now and find it just
> what I want. I use it when getting close to shear lines marked by Q's
> that don't have a firm base and step-up 1000 feet from one side to the
> other, like we get all the time here in the Mendacino Mountains. It is
> instant-on and it can be turned on while in a bank...............comes
> right up to show your correct bank angle. It looks like a gyro, but
> shows no pitch information. I have had it on for 30 minutes and it
> always showed the correct attitude. Plenty good enough to execute a
> 180 in order to get out of an unexpected IFR situation, just maintain
> your cruise speed which will keep the pitch under control and crank it
> around using the TruTrack....................Please no hate-mail about
> the FAR's, I use it just in case I'm fiddling with the computer one
> day and suddenly find everything has turned gray!
> JJ
>
> My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
>
> > in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
> > horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
> > pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
> > significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
> > Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
> > indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
> > rate thermalling?
>
> > Darryl

JJ

Just to be clear. TruTrak (I keep forgetting to forget the c) is the
company, they make multiple products. You are talking about a TruTrak
Pictorial Turn and Bank, which I also have in my glider and I am also
impressed with. Marty is talking about the TruTrak ADI - an artificial
horizon. It is the pitch information in the artificial horizon that I
am mostly questioning. It would be great if it works as well as their
pictorial turn and bank, but they've not answered questions about this
when I tried before and so far I've not heard of anybody who has
really shaken one of these out in a sailplane.

Darryl

[bumper]

Concurring with Darryl, it should also be noted that the TruTrak pictorial
turn and bank (roll info only), is usually ordered set at a 1" minute
standard turn rate for glider use (we turn a lot and steeply). For power
plane use, and the default setting, it's typically set at a 2-minute turn
rate as this is the standard rate turn for instrument flying.

So, is the ADI version (with pitch), also available in the 1-minute turn
rate for gliders?

I'm also using and am happy with the roll only TruTrak.

bumper

"Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
...
> On May 28, 6:52 am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
>> I have been flying with the TruTrack for a year now and find it just
>> what I want. I use it when getting close to shear lines marked by Q's
>> that don't have a firm base and step-up 1000 feet from one side to the
>> other, like we get all the time here in the Mendacino Mountains. It is
>> instant-on and it can be turned on while in a bank...............comes
>> right up to show your correct bank angle. It looks like a gyro, but
>> shows no pitch information. I have had it on for 30 minutes and it
>> always showed the correct attitude. Plenty good enough to execute a
>> 180 in order to get out of an unexpected IFR situation, just maintain
>> your cruise speed which will keep the pitch under control and crank it
>> around using the TruTrack....................Please no hate-mail about
>> the FAR's, I use it just in case I'm fiddling with the computer one
>> day and suddenly find everything has turned gray!
>> JJ
>>
>> My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
>>
>> > in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
>> > horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
>> > pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
>> > significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
>> > Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
>> > indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
>> > rate thermalling?
>>
>> > Darryl
>
> JJ
>
> Just to be clear. TruTrak (I keep forgetting to forget the c) is the
> company, they make multiple products. You are talking about a TruTrak
> Pictorial Turn and Bank, which I also have in my glider and I am also
> impressed with. Marty is talking about the TruTrak ADI - an artificial
> horizon. It is the pitch information in the artificial horizon that I
> am mostly questioning. It would be great if it works as well as their
> pictorial turn and bank, but they've not answered questions about this
> when I tried before and so far I've not heard of anybody who has
> really shaken one of these out in a sailplane.
>
> Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 28, 10:31 am, "bumper" > wrote:
> Concurring with Darryl, it should also be noted that the TruTrak pictorial
> turn and bank (roll info only), is usually ordered set at a 1" minute
> standard turn rate for glider use (we turn a lot and steeply). For power
> plane use, and the default setting, it's typically set at a 2-minute turn
> rate as this is the standard rate turn for instrument flying.
>
> So, is the ADI version (with pitch), also available in the 1-minute turn
> rate for gliders?
>
> I'm also using and am happy with the roll only TruTrak.
>
> bumper
>
> "Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On May 28, 6:52 am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> >> I have been flying with the TruTrack for a year now and find it just
> >> what I want. I use it when getting close to shear lines marked by Q's
> >> that don't have a firm base and step-up 1000 feet from one side to the
> >> other, like we get all the time here in the Mendacino Mountains. It is
> >> instant-on and it can be turned on while in a bank...............comes
> >> right up to show your correct bank angle. It looks like a gyro, but
> >> shows no pitch information. I have had it on for 30 minutes and it
> >> always showed the correct attitude. Plenty good enough to execute a
> >> 180 in order to get out of an unexpected IFR situation, just maintain
> >> your cruise speed which will keep the pitch under control and crank it
> >> around using the TruTrack....................Please no hate-mail about
> >> the FAR's, I use it just in case I'm fiddling with the computer one
> >> day and suddenly find everything has turned gray!
> >> JJ
>
> >> My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
>
> >> > in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
> >> > horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
> >> > pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
> >> > significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
> >> > Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
> >> > indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
> >> > rate thermalling?
>
> >> > Darryl
>
> > JJ
>
> > Just to be clear. TruTrak (I keep forgetting to forget the c) is the
> > company, they make multiple products. You are talking about a TruTrak
> > Pictorial Turn and Bank, which I also have in my glider and I am also
> > impressed with. Marty is talking about the TruTrak ADI - an artificial
> > horizon. It is the pitch information in the artificial horizon that I
> > am mostly questioning. It would be great if it works as well as their
> > pictorial turn and bank, but they've not answered questions about this
> > when I tried before and so far I've not heard of anybody who has
> > really shaken one of these out in a sailplane.
>
> > Darryl

Bumper

If it is an artificial horizon/ADI it should show bank angle not turn
rate. Their documentation says bank angle.

Darryl

[[email protected]]

On May 28, 3:52*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On May 28, 10:31 am, "bumper" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Concurring with Darryl, it should also be noted that the TruTrak pictorial
> > turn and bank (roll info only), is usually ordered set at a 1" minute
> > standard turn rate for glider use (we turn a lot and steeply). For power
> > plane use, and the default setting, it's typically set at a 2-minute turn
> > rate as this is the standard rate turn for instrument flying.
>
> > So, is the ADI version (with pitch), also available in the 1-minute turn
> > rate for gliders?
>
> > I'm also using and am happy with the roll only TruTrak.
>
> > bumper
>
> > "Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > On May 28, 6:52 am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> > >> I have been flying with the TruTrack for a year now and find it just
> > >> what I want. I use it when getting close to shear lines marked by Q's
> > >> that don't have a firm base and step-up 1000 feet from one side to the
> > >> other, like we get all the time here in the Mendacino Mountains. It is
> > >> instant-on and it can be turned on while in a bank...............comes
> > >> right up to show your correct bank angle. It looks like a gyro, but
> > >> shows no pitch information. I have had it on for 30 minutes and it
> > >> always showed the correct attitude. Plenty good enough to execute a
> > >> 180 in order to get out of an unexpected IFR situation, just maintain
> > >> your cruise speed which will keep the pitch under control and crank it
> > >> around using the TruTrack....................Please no hate-mail about
> > >> the FAR's, I use it just in case I'm fiddling with the computer one
> > >> day and suddenly find everything has turned gray!
> > >> JJ
>
> > >> *My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
>
> > >> > in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
> > >> > horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
> > >> > pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
> > >> > significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
> > >> > Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
> > >> > indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
> > >> > rate thermalling?
>
> > >> > Darryl
>
> > > JJ
>
> > > Just to be clear. TruTrak (I keep forgetting to forget the c) is the
> > > company, they make multiple products. You are talking about a TruTrak
> > > Pictorial Turn and Bank, which I also have in my glider and I am also
> > > impressed with. Marty is talking about the TruTrak ADI - an artificial
> > > horizon. It is the pitch information in the artificial horizon that I
> > > am mostly questioning. It would be great if it works as well as their
> > > pictorial turn and bank, but they've not answered questions about this
> > > when I tried before and so far I've not heard of anybody who has
> > > really shaken one of these out in a sailplane.
>
> > > Darryl
>
> Bumper
>
> If it is an artificial horizon/ADI it should show bank angle not turn
> rate. Their documentation says bank angle.
>
> Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We had a similar discussion a while back on the Van's Air Force forum.
Here's what the final word was directly from TruTrak: "The gyros in
the ADI are rate gyros. They sense only rate of change. When you
describe tipping the unit, you momentarily cause a rate change in the
gyro. After you leave it on its side, it no longer senses a rate of
change, therefore the display returns to level. Think about that
motion in an aircraft however, if you put the ADI on it's side, you
are obviously in a banked turn. This causes a constant azimuth and
roll rate change which would be displayed on the ADI as the angle of
bank. I hope this helps you to understand how the ADI works, please
let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!"

Lucas Massengale
Technical Support
TruTrak Flight Systems
479-751-0250
866-878-8725
www.trutrakap.com

I have ADI on the panel of my RV-8A. Haven't flown with it yet but
have talked to many, many folks about what it can and cannot do. It is
not a true artificial horizon. But for soaring it seems like an ideal
solution for those inadvertant IFR experiences. The ADI has an option
for an internal back-up battery which is suppose to power the unit if
main power fails. The ADI uses a 2 amp fuse/breaker but the current
drain is not documented in the manuals.

Albert Thomas
"4"

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 28, 9:02 pm, wrote:
> On May 28, 3:52 pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 28, 10:31 am, "bumper" > wrote:
>
> > > Concurring with Darryl, it should also be noted that the TruTrak pictorial
> > > turn and bank (roll info only), is usually ordered set at a 1" minute
> > > standard turn rate for glider use (we turn a lot and steeply). For power
> > > plane use, and the default setting, it's typically set at a 2-minute turn
> > > rate as this is the standard rate turn for instrument flying.
>
> > > So, is the ADI version (with pitch), also available in the 1-minute turn
> > > rate for gliders?
>
> > > I'm also using and am happy with the roll only TruTrak.
>
> > > bumper
>
> > > "Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > On May 28, 6:52 am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> > > >> I have been flying with the TruTrack for a year now and find it just
> > > >> what I want. I use it when getting close to shear lines marked by Q's
> > > >> that don't have a firm base and step-up 1000 feet from one side to the
> > > >> other, like we get all the time here in the Mendacino Mountains. It is
> > > >> instant-on and it can be turned on while in a bank...............comes
> > > >> right up to show your correct bank angle. It looks like a gyro, but
> > > >> shows no pitch information. I have had it on for 30 minutes and it
> > > >> always showed the correct attitude. Plenty good enough to execute a
> > > >> 180 in order to get out of an unexpected IFR situation, just maintain
> > > >> your cruise speed which will keep the pitch under control and crank it
> > > >> around using the TruTrack....................Please no hate-mail about
> > > >> the FAR's, I use it just in case I'm fiddling with the computer one
> > > >> day and suddenly find everything has turned gray!
> > > >> JJ
>
> > > >> My more serious concern with the ADI is how exactly the unit performs
>
> > > >> > in a glider - especially given it is *not* a normal artificial
> > > >> > horizon. It displays what TruTrack calls "vertical velocity enhanced
> > > >> > pitch". So what happens to the pitch indication when you encounter
> > > >> > significant change in vertical speed say in wave or even in a thermal.
> > > >> > Anybody have any actual experience using one of these? The pitch
> > > >> > indication behavior? How does the unit handle continuous high turn
> > > >> > rate thermalling?
>
> > > >> > Darryl
>
> > > > JJ
>
> > > > Just to be clear. TruTrak (I keep forgetting to forget the c) is the
> > > > company, they make multiple products. You are talking about a TruTrak
> > > > Pictorial Turn and Bank, which I also have in my glider and I am also
> > > > impressed with. Marty is talking about the TruTrak ADI - an artificial
> > > > horizon. It is the pitch information in the artificial horizon that I
> > > > am mostly questioning. It would be great if it works as well as their
> > > > pictorial turn and bank, but they've not answered questions about this
> > > > when I tried before and so far I've not heard of anybody who has
> > > > really shaken one of these out in a sailplane.
>
> > > > Darryl
>
> > Bumper
>
> > If it is an artificial horizon/ADI it should show bank angle not turn
> > rate. Their documentation says bank angle.
>
> > Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> We had a similar discussion a while back on the Van's Air Force forum.
> Here's what the final word was directly from TruTrak: "The gyros in
> the ADI are rate gyros. They sense only rate of change. When you
> describe tipping the unit, you momentarily cause a rate change in the
> gyro. After you leave it on its side, it no longer senses a rate of
> change, therefore the display returns to level. Think about that
> motion in an aircraft however, if you put the ADI on it's side, you
> are obviously in a banked turn. This causes a constant azimuth and
> roll rate change which would be displayed on the ADI as the angle of
> bank. I hope this helps you to understand how the ADI works, please
> let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!"
>
> Lucas Massengale
> Technical Support
> TruTrak Flight Systems
> 479-751-0250
> 866-878-8725www.trutrakap.com
>
> I have ADI on the panel of my RV-8A. Haven't flown with it yet but
> have talked to many, many folks about what it can and cannot do. It is
> not a true artificial horizon. But for soaring it seems like an ideal
> solution for those inadvertant IFR experiences. The ADI has an option
> for an internal back-up battery which is suppose to power the unit if
> main power fails. The ADI uses a 2 amp fuse/breaker but the current
> drain is not documented in the manuals.
>
> Albert Thomas
> "4"

"But for soaring it seems like an ideal solution for those inadvertant
IFR experiences"...is that considering what the pitch indication will
do when encountering sudden rate of change of climb/descent say inside
a CB or being blown downwind while IFR inside a lennie? My concern is
things that you can't understand how they will operate in nasty
situations where you really need them are not an "ideal solution". It
is one thing beings stressed by things not going well and being in
IFR, it would be worse to have to ignore the pitch indication on the
ADI or untangle whether you believe the ASI or TruTrak ADI. It might
be that the TruTrak ADI is usable in these situations, but I'd like to
hear it's been used/demonstrated by folks in similar situations it
will be needed in before assuming it is going to work like other
artificial horizons. Without that my preference would be for a T&B
with no pitch indication.

BTW from the description above maybe Bumper's question may be valid.

Darryl