EAA plans major building expansion?

[Bob Fry]

From an RV list:

I saw an interesting story this morning on the local news.
Apparently EAA is planning a 10 year project to expand the
Airventure grounds and build 2 new exhibit buildings. The current
plan looks to link the existing 4 buildings into two pairs buy
building a new two story building between them and updating the
existing buildings with the usual convention center amenities like
bathrooms. The city of OSH is talking about abandoning their
existing convention center downtown and teaming up with EAA to turn
Airventure grounds into a new OSH convention center.

I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become too
commercial and has forgotten their constituency. I know this is the
first I have heard of this and a quick search on Google turns up
nothing except a couple of the local news stories. I would think
that EAA would want to share such large initiatives with the members
before going full speed ahead.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, and OSH could
certainly use the additional resources year around, but I would like
to know exactly how EAA feels this will help experimental aviation
advocacy and how they feel this will help the organization. This
isn't a cheap endeavor at 20 million and it's a lot of our EAA dues
going into it. My point to this is, if you are a member, let EAA
know how you feel about this being done whether it's good or bad.

http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1

http://tinyurl.com/67r7kl
--
Each of us is confined to a world of our own making.
~ Shawn Mikula

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Bob Fry wrote:
> From an RV list:
>
> I saw an interesting story this morning on the local news.
> Apparently EAA is planning a 10 year project to expand the
> Airventure grounds and build 2 new exhibit buildings. The current
> plan looks to link the existing 4 buildings into two pairs buy
> building a new two story building between them and updating the
> existing buildings with the usual convention center amenities like
> bathrooms. The city of OSH is talking about abandoning their
> existing convention center downtown and teaming up with EAA to turn
> Airventure grounds into a new OSH convention center.
>
> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become too
> commercial and has forgotten their constituency. I know this is the
> first I have heard of this and a quick search on Google turns up
> nothing except a couple of the local news stories. I would think
> that EAA would want to share such large initiatives with the members
> before going full speed ahead.
>
> I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, and OSH could
> certainly use the additional resources year around, but I would like
> to know exactly how EAA feels this will help experimental aviation
> advocacy and how they feel this will help the organization. This
> isn't a cheap endeavor at 20 million and it's a lot of our EAA dues
> going into it. My point to this is, if you are a member, let EAA
> know how you feel about this being done whether it's good or bad.
>
> http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6636115&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
>
> http://tinyurl.com/67r7kl


Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it is
usually a good thing.

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

This was also mentioned in the latest issue of EAA's Sport Pilot magazine.
For those not familiar with OSH except during EAA events, the grounds are
used through-out the year for several other major events including Ducks
Unlimited Outdoor Expo, a large Farm Equipment and Energy Expo, and
occasionally large music events.
Jim

[Steve S.]

I understand and am sympathetic to concerns about how member dues are
spent, and I agree that the potential for direct advocacy of
experimental aviation is quite low. But I have to say that finding
ways to use the grounds for off-season events and non-aviation events
is likely a very useful thing.

1. EAA gets to charge for the use of the grounds and facilities,
which means that they are getting a return on an investment. The
downstream potential is good--diversified income streams can help
alleviate pressure on core business. In other words, they might not
need to completely depend on member dues and gate fees for income. I
am reminded of PBS owning a line of for-profit catalog businesses. It
has made them very good money they use to defray costs in their
"normal" operations.

2. As a previous poster mentioned, any time the ties between the
aviation community and non-aviation communities can be brought closer,
I think that is not only good, it is crucial. If the city of Oshkosh,
Ducks Unlimited, the FEEE guys, and whomever else can be made
tangential partners in the health of EAA I see that as helpful. We
need goodwill ambassadors out there.

3. I completely agree that OSH has gotten very corporate and has
undeniably drifted far afield from its original intended purpose. OSH
used to be a big fly-in and now it's a trade show. It hurts to say
it, but it's the hard fact. It is what it is, we can't turn it back
without gutting it. In my mind it is now up to us to make lemonade
out of lemons. How can we, both as regular grass-roots guys and EAA
guys, make the present reality work for us? Well, it is a tough
question but one thing we can do is exactly this--get non-aviation
partners involved with EAA, no matter how peripherally. One can never
know when that relationship might pay dividends. All it takes is for
one person to have a good experience and say the right thing at the
right time down the road. Some farm kid at the FEEE show has a good
time at the EAA grounds, grows up to become a senator or congressman
and later squelches some negative aviation talk because he enjoyed
that experience at the OSH/EAA convention center. I believe this sort
of thing happens all around us, every day.

I am very worried about the future of experimental aviation in the
US. I am very, very, very worried about the pending revision to the
51% rule. One of the things that I have noticed is that we--aviation
folks and experimental folks--have few allies when votes are being
cast or rules being written. I strongly believe that we need to cast
our net as wide as possible--even fleeting connections can be helpful.

I don't mean to be preachy. I just see aviation as too insulated from
'everyone else' and I think we need to change that any way we can or
we will fade away.

Steve.

/ I still have fun at OSH
// Wish I could get a scooter pass

[Lou]

> Steve.
>
> / I still have fun at OSH
> // Wish I could get a scooter pass

What's a scooter pass?
Lou

[Gezellig]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:36 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

> Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it is
> usually a good thing.

huh?

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Gezellig wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:36 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>
>> Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it is
>> usually a good thing.
>
> huh?

Airventure is held at this magical place we call an airport. An airport
is where the lift fairies live. If the city that is adjacent to the
airport likes and invests time, money and political support to the
airport it makes the lift faries happy.

[Gezellig]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:11:51 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:

> Gezellig wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:36 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>>
>>> Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it is
>>> usually a good thing.
>>
>> huh?
>
> Airventure is held at this magical place we call an airport. An airport
> is where the lift fairies live. If the city that is adjacent to the
> airport likes and invests time, money and political support to the
> airport it makes the lift faries happy.

Hobkie on all that.

"Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it
is usually a good thing" Huh?

How about "Usually when the city gets involved with the airport in a
positive way it is always a good thing"

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Gezellig wrote:

> On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:11:51 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>
>
>>Gezellig wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:36 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it is
>>>>usually a good thing.
>>>
>>>huh?
>>
>>Airventure is held at this magical place we call an airport. An airport
>>is where the lift fairies live. If the city that is adjacent to the
>>airport likes and invests time, money and political support to the
>>airport it makes the lift faries happy.
>
>
> Hobkie on all that.
>
> "Any time the city gets involved with the airport in a positive way it
> is usually a good thing" Huh?
>
> How about "Usually when the city gets involved with the airport in a
> positive way it is always a good thing"


What-ever.

As long as teh lift faries are happy.
That's what's important here!

[Blueskies]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message . ..
> This was also mentioned in the latest issue of EAA's Sport Pilot magazine.
> For those not familiar with OSH except during EAA events, the grounds are
> used through-out the year for several other major events including Ducks
> Unlimited Outdoor Expo, a large Farm Equipment and Energy Expo, and
> occasionally large music events.
> Jim
>
>

And I seem to remember comments about fixing up and changing things around last year or the year before, but no specific
plans were made...

[351DP]

I have a friend on EAAs board that basically confirms that they are
expanding Airventure. I guess EAA makes 80% or more of their cash off
of Airventure and the board intends to focus on the event. Much of
this money comes from the big displays, I guess Cirrus, Cessna,
Lycoming and the like make a ton of money at the show. He also said
that one of the other folks on the Board is a former or present CFO,
CEO, whatever of either six flags or Bush Gardens Amusement parks.
The new plan includes some sort of tram, better bathrooms, more bells
and whistles: He didn't mention rides but get ready for a more Disney-
Like Airventure non the less.

[Andy Asberry[_2_]]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 18:03:29 -0700 (PDT), 351DP
> wrote:

>I have a friend on EAAs board that basically confirms that they are
>expanding Airventure. I guess EAA makes 80% or more of their cash off
>of Airventure and the board intends to focus on the event. Much of
>this money comes from the big displays, I guess Cirrus, Cessna,
>Lycoming and the like make a ton of money at the show. He also said
>that one of the other folks on the Board is a former or present CFO,
>CEO, whatever of either six flags or Bush Gardens Amusement parks.
>The new plan includes some sort of tram, better bathrooms, more bells
>and whistles: He didn't mention rides but get ready for a more Disney-
>Like Airventure non the less.

Some RV hookups would be useable year round.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 10:24:11 -0700 (PDT), Lou > wrote:

> > Steve.
> >
> > / I still have fun at OSH
> > // Wish I could get a scooter pass
>
> What's a scooter pass?

Permission to drive a motorized vehicle on the grounds... a.k.a., "License to
Kill". :-)

Ron "I had one last year" Wanttaja

[Steve S.]

> > What's a scooter pass?
>
> Permission to drive a motorized vehicle on the grounds... a.k.a., "License to
> Kill". :-)
>
> Ron "I had one last year" Wanttaja

*******. I would happily settle for a bike . . .

True story: Our group rents a house in town for the duration of the
show. The people we rent from work security during the show (they are
teachers during the other 51 weeks of the year). We have tried many
times to milk the fact that we pay them large dollars and reside in
their house for some kind of security-related favoritism. All to no
avail.

On the last day of the show last summer one of our vendors stopped by
our area and chatted for a bit. I mentioned my longing for a scooter
pass, and he proudly pointed out that the scooter he was riding was
sans pass--he had managed to sneak about for the whole show. The
folks from whom we rent the house (again, security people) also
stopped by--at that same time--to say hello and so forth. Thus our
display became an impromptu ambush for our poor vendor. In the end we
just had to sit back and observe the carnage from a safe distance.

Steve.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become too
> commercial and has forgotten their constituency.

EAA is a big business with a shrinking constituency. Look at the "Gone
West" column each month, and all the empty airports, and it's easy to see
what they're up against.

If expanding the Airventure grounds so that it may be better used for other
events helps to preserve our annual fly-in, I'm all for it. I wish it were
otherwise, but there just ain't enough new pilots in the pipeline to support
EAA. As a result, their choices are rather stark.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:99L0k.3194$t07.1982
@newsfe22.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>> news:4Xy%j.185282$yE1.138744@attbi_s21:
>>
>>>> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become
too
>>>> commercial and has forgotten their constituency.
>>>
>>> EAA is a big business with a shrinking constituency. Look at the
>>> "Gone West" column each month, and all the empty airports, and it's
>>> easy to see what they're up against.
>>>
>>> If expanding the Airventure grounds so that it may be better used
for
>>> other events helps to preserve our annual fly-in, I'm all for it.
I
>>> wish it were otherwise, but there just ain't enough new pilots in
the
>>> pipeline to support EAA. As a result, their choices are rather
stark.
>>
>> There were only two at the beginning, idiot.
>>
>
> Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?
>

Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.


Bertie

[Hawkeye[_2_]]

It has only take two decades to get EAA to realize that it is in not
only to their benefit, but also the taxpayers of Winnebago County to
combine the AirVenture Grounds with the Fairgrounds...afterall it is
county property. When they build the existing fairgrounds there were
those who said combine the two...but no, EAA seemed to have the
political pull to keep everyone away from their corner of the world
and have the county taketh away land from landowners to expand the
airport grounds even further. Much of this expansion was being used
for vehicle parking, which subsidized the farmers who owned it...now
EAA collects the cash.

Over the past few years EAA has opened the doors to other events such
as Ducks Unlimited and a agriculture show. I believe John Deere still
has their dealer conventions there...hence the green tractors and ATVs
that blanket the grounds during the convention.

The taxpayers were cheated, now it has become apparent that EAAs sole
control of the grounds was short sighted. Even the new Country USA
grounds west of the airport aren't working as well as
predicted...access to the highway, something the EAA grounds has...had
they built a new amphitheater there (on the airport grounds) a decade
ago, it would have saved a lot of wasted resources and money.

The fairgrounds on the north side was a huge mistake...something about
building it across the road and downwind of the county landfill
doesn't make attending concerts enjoyable after a particularly busy
day at the dump.

Many of us knew this would happen...had they listened to us then, we
wouldn't be talking about it now. The geographic footprint of the
airport isn't justified 50 of the 52 weeks a year. Had the forefathers
of Winnebago and Outagamie Counties been able to agree on a location
for a joint airport....things would be a whole lot different than they
are today.

Before you ask...yes I am a member of EAA and a resident and taxpayer
of Winnebago County.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:99L0k.3194$t07.1982
:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>> news:4Xy%j.185282$yE1.138744@attbi_s21:
>>>
>>>>> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become
>too
>>>>> commercial and has forgotten their constituency.
>>>>
>>>> EAA is a big business with a shrinking constituency. Look at the
>>>> "Gone West" column each month, and all the empty airports, and it's
>>>> easy to see what they're up against.
>>>>
>>>> If expanding the Airventure grounds so that it may be better used
>for
>>>> other events helps to preserve our annual fly-in, I'm all for it.
>I
>>>> wish it were otherwise, but there just ain't enough new pilots in
>the
>>>> pipeline to support EAA. As a result, their choices are rather
>stark.
>>>
>>> There were only two at the beginning, idiot.
>>>
>>
>> Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?
>>
>
>Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.
>
>
>Bertie

no H, 2 t's

I fly steve's 8th design.

(I know, spelling errors are kook baits :-) )
Stealth Pilot

[Maxwell[_2_]]

>>>
>>
>>Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>
> no H, 2 t's
>
> I fly steve's 8th design.
>
> (I know, spelling errors are kook baits :-) )
> Stealth Pilot

Not when he is trying to quote someone, you actually got him.

Coarse, he will just lie.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There were only two at the beginning, idiot.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?
>>>
>>
>>Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>>

Nope. Paul Pobernezny is EAA #1, Steve Wittman was EAA #34.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
>>"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:99L0k.3194$t07.1982
:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in
>>>> news:4Xy%j.185282$yE1.138744@attbi_s21:
>>>>
>>>>>> I bring this up because a lot of people feel that EAA has become
>>too
>>>>>> commercial and has forgotten their constituency.
>>>>>
>>>>> EAA is a big business with a shrinking constituency. Look at the
>>>>> "Gone West" column each month, and all the empty airports, and
it's
>>>>> easy to see what they're up against.
>>>>>
>>>>> If expanding the Airventure grounds so that it may be better used
>>for
>>>>> other events helps to preserve our annual fly-in, I'm all for it.
>>I
>>>>> wish it were otherwise, but there just ain't enough new pilots in
>>the
>>>>> pipeline to support EAA. As a result, their choices are rather
>>stark.
>>>>
>>>> There were only two at the beginning, idiot.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?
>>>
>>
>>Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>
> no H, 2 t's
>
> I fly steve's 8th design.
>
> (I know, spelling errors are kook baits :-) )
> Stealth Pilot
>


Wasn't intentional! I type pretty quickly, obviously Good speed, crap
accuracy.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in news:P8idnVtvpM5
:

> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There were only two at the beginning, idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Who come to your limited mind, you and Anthony?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Paul Poberezny and Steve Whitman, actually.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bertie
>>>
>
> Nope. Paul Pobernezny is EAA #1, Steve Wittman was EAA #34.
>
>
>

Yer right. Can;'t remember who he set up with , but it was just a couple
of them at the very beginning...

Anyhow, the point was, you don't need winnebagos, loudspeakers, golf
carts, B2 bomber fly bys or any of that crap tp have the EAA or
something like it. You just need a couple of guys with the knowledge of
how to build an airplane and the desire to do it.



Bertie

[Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)]

I sat in on a focus group at the convention last year on the expansion
plans. While the two new exhibit buildings are the most visible change,
there's some things for the members too. They're going to put in real
showers and toilets in camp areas, and the plan of separating people
from vehicles is way overdue.

One of the comments we made several times, but I fear was ignored, was
the elimination of the parking fee. We thought that raising the
admission price a bit, and reducing the camping fee to make it revenue
neutral would get cars into the event a lot easier. It also gives a bad
first impression of the organization by having their hand out to collect
money before even getting near the main gate.

An item I wasn't too fond of is the triangle shape of the main, and (I
believe) only entrance. Obviously the new vendor rental rate is in the
same form where the peak rate is right at the entrance. This must be to
address the way vendors don't get much traffic to the left, and
especially the right, of the main gate. I think this will put an even
greater emphasis on the commercial aspects of our convention by moving
the people further away from the warbirds, experimental, vintage and
ultralight areas. One thing of note was the architectural drawing had
some display planes at the main entrance. They were all warbirds. None
were experimental or even LSAs.

It will be interesting to see what they do with food service. I
personally like the state fair type of food vendors they have at Sun N'
Fun. There's competition, and it seems like they have a good variety.

[Hawkeye[_2_]]

Paying to park isn't a problem if it is reasonable. Two bucks is cool,
but when you go over five it is hard to take, especially when you get
to the admissions gate and they sting you again. Maybe some sort of
plan to credit you back the parking fee when you purchase your daily
or weekly pass. Those purchasing a weekly pass should have parking for
the week inclusive with their pass...especially members!

The air show crowd line needs to be addressed too. They need to figure
a way to get the 1500 foot minimum so jets and jet teams can again
perform.

Though the convention grounds are clean, they were much cleaner before
the widespread arrival of food venues within the display area. Trash
and aircraft don't mix. I don't know how many times I witness and
chewed ass of people tucking their trash into aircraft or equipment.
Smoking on and around the aircraft is another sore subject with
me...on a hot summer day, some of these dumba**es light up under the
wing of an aircraft thats venting fuel!!!

The grounds need to be smoke free. A fire started in the dry grass
will destroy or damage too much too fast, especially if an aircraft is
venting fuel from expansion acting as an accelerant.

[Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)]

Hawkeye wrote:
> Paying to park isn't a problem if it is reasonable. Two bucks is cool,
> but when you go over five it is hard to take

I believe last year it was USD 7

> Those purchasing a weekly pass should have parking for
> the week inclusive with their pass...especially members!

The logistical problem would be what to do on the first day since you
would have to pay for parking before paying admission. My point is that
the money collection needlessly slows down the process of getting in.

> They need to figure a way to get the 1500 foot minimum so jets and jet
> teams can again perform.

Personally I think there are enough jets at the EAA Convention already.
Although I did go to a seminar at Sun N Fun where a team is trying to
get funding for development of a low bypass engine that would be
efficient on a 4 passenger plane flying at about 15K ft.
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/tiny_turbines.html
I live in an area that usually has a big military show nearby (Westover
/ Westfield, MA) so I get to see a major team anyway, but I can see
where people wouldn't have another change to see them.

> I don't know how many times I witness and
> chewed ass of people tucking their trash into aircraft or equipment.

Sheez! I didn't think the people there were such jerks. I hadn't seen
that, but the past couple years I haven't spent much time on the flight
line. The Protect Our Planes volunteers are among the most important there.

[Tom Wait]

"Hawkeye" wrote
> Paying to park isn't a problem if it is reasonable. Two bucks is cool,
> but when you go over five it is hard to take, especially when you get
> to the admissions gate and they sting you again. Maybe some sort of
> plan to credit you back the parking fee when you purchase your daily
> or weekly pass. Those purchasing a weekly pass should have parking for
> the week inclusive with their pass...especially members!

I've been volunteering at OSH for about 20 years, mostly selling admissions
and memberships. I've heard every complaint about the cost at least a
thousand times. If you want to enjoy our dairy air in the summer wait a
month and drive fifty miles north to Green Bay and attend a Packer game.
Great entertainment. It'll only cost about $20-$25 for parking $200 for a
good seat, and $7 for a beer. After 3-1/2 hours you go home. Or come to
Airventure. Pay $7 to park, about $25 for the best seat in the house, great
entertainment from the best in the world and stay all day and all night if
you choose. The flightline is never closed.
>
> The air show crowd line needs to be addressed too. They need to figure
> a way to get the 1500 foot minimum so jets and jet teams can again
> perform.

I spoke to Tom last year about the Angels or T-birds performing. He said
there's no way to make enough room.

If you want to see the Thunderbirds, they will be in Milwakee July 12-13.
See them for free on your way to Airventure. The Blue Angels will be in
Duluth July 19-20. Spend the extra time before the convention volunteering.
You'll make a bunch of new friends comprised of the best people on the
planet, air heads one and all, and you'll get a warm and fuzzy fealing from
havng been a part of the greatest show on earth.
>
> Though the convention grounds are clean, they were much cleaner before
> the widespread arrival of food venues within the display area. Trash
> and aircraft don't mix. I don't know how many times I witness and
> chewed ass of people tucking their trash into aircraft or equipment.
> Smoking on and around the aircraft is another sore subject with
> me...on a hot summer day, some of these dumba**es light up under the
> wing of an aircraft thats venting fuel!!!

The convention grounds are the cleanest venue I've ever seen with 80-100 K
people roaming around. It's not spotless, but the POP crews and G-men do
their best to keep it nice. I think they do a damn fine job. Chewing out
someones ass for littering isn't a good way of dealing with the occasional
slob. Picking up the trash yourself and reminding the guilty party to help
keep Airventure clean will guilt load them so maybe in the future they'll be
more careful. Bitching can make them angry, so next time they do it to spite
you.
>
> The grounds need to be smoke free. A fire started in the dry grass
> will destroy or damage too much too fast, especially if an aircraft is
> venting fuel from expansion acting as an accelerant.

The groundss are smoke free. That's the rule anyway. I worked POP for two
years and it was my job to look for smokers and pick up trash. I saw little
of either. The smokers invariably light up without thinking and are very
cooperative when politely reminded to snuff it.

Nuff said,
Tom

[Hawkeye[_2_]]

I've been attending EAA since the early seventies. I can remember
parking at the base of the now "old" control tower watching the show
from the roof of the car. Yes, AirVenture is probably the best in all
areas...especially cleanliness.

EAA has experienced lows and highs over the course of time I've been
attending. The recent changes were done to make the event more
appealing to a broader attendance base. In slow years, the attendance
showed that more non-traditional attendees were needed. So, the
format, attractions and marketing strategies changed accordingly. I
understand the logic behind having exhibitors such as Ford there for
economic support but it did change the flavor somewhat.

During years where there isn't a "big ticket" appearance such as the
Concorde, Harrier or Warbirds (big show) attendance suffered. If it
doesn't go fast, shoot or drop bombs many don't care. Unlike the core
of EAA's members who appreciate all aspects of aerospace and aviation.
Having the "teams" appear such as the Snowbirds did draws a huge
amount of spectators who normally wouldn't attend. Their attendance
means revenue for not only EAA but the community.

Sure one could travel to Milwaukee to see the Thunderbirds, but there
are those who don't want to venture into the heart of a large
unfamiliar city with all of its nuances. Places like Oshkosh are more
accessible and less intimidating.

With any entertainment venue, Packers, Brewers, Concerts...what
ever...spectators want as much bang for their buck as they can get,
especially in these tight economic times. The economic impact of a
community which hosts a large event...such as an airshow that features
a major attraction, suffers when the main attraction fails to show up
or perform. Disappointed spectators take their money home with them.
They also give deep consideration to return again. Human nature.

Is AirVenture perfect...no. Is there room for improvement...yes. Will
I continue to support EAA...yes as long as they continue to listen to
the membership and strive to improve, thus thrive.

See ya at AirVenture...I'm the one with the strange hat, T-Shirt with
an airplane on the back, shorts with lots of pockets, two cameras
around my neck, scanner to my ear, lawn chair under my arm and a smile
on my face!

[Blueskies]

"Hawkeye" > wrote in message ...
>
> See ya at AirVenture...I'm the one with the strange hat, T-Shirt with
> an airplane on the back, shorts with lots of pockets, two cameras
> around my neck, scanner to my ear, lawn chair under my arm and a smile
> on my face!

Sounds like I just looked in hte mirror!

[Tom Wait]

"Hawkeye" > wrote

> See ya at AirVenture...I'm the one with the strange hat, T-Shirt with
> an airplane on the back, shorts with lots of pockets, two cameras
> around my neck, scanner to my ear, lawn chair under my arm and a smile
> on my face!

You'll look like 75% of the rest of the crowd! I'll be the bald guy selling
admissions at gate E-17 every morning, lost in space in the afternoon. Stop
by and say 'hi' while your there.
Tom

[Hawkeye[_2_]]

It could be worse...Skoal sleeveless T-Shirt, mullet, ultra short
denim cutoffs taking pictures with a camera phone while holding a
beer. ROTFL

[Tom Wait]

"Hawkeye" > wrote in message
...
> It could be worse...Skoal sleeveless T-Shirt, mullet, ultra short
> denim cutoffs taking pictures with a camera phone while holding a
> beer. ROTFL

I saw him last year. We took away his beer.
Tom