tube and fabric and outdoor storage

[Robert Loer]

Can not possibly afford a hanger and can not find a shelter so my plane will
have to sit out. Is a fabric covered plane an absolute no-no? What can be
done?

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 23:51:08 -0700, "Robert Loer" >
wrote:

>Can not possibly afford a hanger and can not find a shelter so my plane will
>have to sit out. Is a fabric covered plane an absolute no-no? What can be
>done?
>

a cheaper hangar.

[Peter Dohm]

"Robert Loer" > wrote in message
...
> Can not possibly afford a hanger and can not find a shelter so my plane
> will have to sit out. Is a fabric covered plane an absolute no-no? What
> can be done?
Historically, this was quite common, and fabric covered airplanes sat
outside in all climates for more than half of the time that aviation has
existed. However; periodic inspections of the structure, in the course of
recovering the aircraft, are much more critical to safety when the aircraft
is stored outside. Also, the drain holes become much more important and you
almost certainly won't get the benefit of the newer and longer lasting
fabrics and finishes.

Your best sources of information for good and safe schedules and procedures
will be, in no particular order:
1) An old, or second generation, mechanic.
2) Type clubs for aircraft with similar construction.
3) EAA
4) Owners at smaller airports where hangars are less common.

I hope this helps.
Peter

[Steve Foley]

"Robert Loer" > wrote in message
...
> Can not possibly afford a hanger and can not find a shelter so my plane
will
> have to sit out. Is a fabric covered plane an absolute no-no? What can be
> done?
>

Any chance your airport will let you put up a fabric hangar? (tent)

http://www.fabricshelters-usa.com/FabricGarages-AircraftHangar-189-0-659.htm

[Jerry Springer]

Robert Loer wrote:
> Can not possibly afford a hanger and can not find a shelter so my plane will
> have to sit out. Is a fabric covered plane an absolute no-no? What can be
> done?
>
>


There are thousand of fabric covered airplanes that are outside. Keep
the finish in good condition keep them clean and a good protective wax.
If it tends to leak have a good cover made. Use something like
"Dri-Z-Air inside to help absorb moisture. The canister well collect
water pretty rapidly so well have to regularly be changed but it is an
options for moisture control.

[Frank Stutzman[_2_]]

Jerry Springer > wrote:

> There are thousand of fabric covered airplanes that are outside. Keep
> the finish in good condition keep them clean and a good protective wax.
> If it tends to leak have a good cover made. Use something like
> "Dri-Z-Air inside to help absorb moisture. The canister well collect
> water pretty rapidly so well have to regularly be changed but it is an
> options for moisture control.

I'd be careful with these "Dri-Z-Air" things around a plane.

I had one in my shop, sitting on top of my table saw. It was have full
when I bumped it, spilling maybe a quarter cup. I was in a rush so I
didn't clean it up right away. The NEXT day I had a really nasty patch
of corrosion on the saw where the spill was.

Now obviously a cast iron table saw has different metallurgy than a tube
& fabric plane. But my point is that the liquid these things generate
is not just simple water. Whatever it is, its pretty reactive and not
something I would want around metal that my life depends on.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

[Jerry Springer]

Frank Stutzman wrote:

> Jerry Springer > wrote:
>
>
>>There are thousand of fabric covered airplanes that are outside. Keep
>>the finish in good condition keep them clean and a good protective wax.
>>If it tends to leak have a good cover made. Use something like
>>"Dri-Z-Air inside to help absorb moisture. The canister well collect
>>water pretty rapidly so well have to regularly be changed but it is an
>>options for moisture control.
>
>
> I'd be careful with these "Dri-Z-Air" things around a plane.
>
> I had one in my shop, sitting on top of my table saw. It was have full
> when I bumped it, spilling maybe a quarter cup. I was in a rush so I
> didn't clean it up right away. The NEXT day I had a really nasty patch
> of corrosion on the saw where the spill was.
>
> Now obviously a cast iron table saw has different metallurgy than a tube
> & fabric plane. But my point is that the liquid these things generate
> is not just simple water. Whatever it is, its pretty reactive and not
> something I would want around metal that my life depends on.
>


Point taken, I use to have one in my Pacer but was careful not so spill it.

Jerry

[Lou]

>
> Any chance your airport will let you put up a fabric hangar? (tent)
>
> http://www.fabricshelters-usa.com/FabricGarages-AircraftHangar-189-0-...


I think these are great, but when I went to figure out the cost of
building my own
hanger, it was very close to the cost of these. I do however think
these would be
great if you plan to move and want to take the hanger with you.
Lou

[Steve Foley]

"Lou" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Any chance your airport will let you put up a fabric hangar? (tent)
> >
> > http://www.fabricshelters-usa.com/FabricGarages-AircraftHangar-189-0-...
>
>
> I think these are great, but when I went to figure out the cost of
> building my own
> hanger, it was very close to the cost of these. I do however think
> these would be
> great if you plan to move and want to take the hanger with you.
> Lou

The one my plane would fit in cost around $5K. Around here, you could spend
that in a year renting a hangar. I'm pretty sure hangars are selling for
close to $100,000.

[Lou]

On May 30, 1:33 pm, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
> "Lou" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > > Any chance your airport will let you put up a fabric hangar? (tent)
>
> > >http://www.fabricshelters-usa.com/FabricGarages-AircraftHangar-189-0-...
>
> > I think these are great, but when I went to figure out the cost of
> > building my own
> > hanger, it was very close to the cost of these. I do however think
> > these would be
> > great if you plan to move and want to take the hanger with you.
> > Lou
>
> The one my plane would fit in cost around $5K. Around here, you could spend
> that in a year renting a hangar. I'm pretty sure hangars are selling for
> close to $100,000.

Oh I'm sure they do. I found a small grass strip by me that will let
me
build a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
Lou

[Steve Foley]

"Lou" > wrote in message
...

>
> Oh I'm sure they do. I found a small grass strip by me that will let
> me
> build a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
> Lou

That's what I'm paying to rent the ground under my plane. The problem is
that these things take up more space than a plane, especially if you
alternate high wings and low wings.

[wright1902glider]

On May 30, 1:00*pm, "Steve Foley" > wrote:
> "Lou" > wrote in message
> > Oh I'm sure they do. I found a small grass strip by me that will let
> > me
> > build a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
> > * * * *Lou

$50.00 a month isn't bad for dirt rental. I'm paying $45.00 a month
(combined) for two 8x25 slots to park my trailers in what equates to
an overglorified junk yard. (The sign says RV storage, but...) One is
for my glider's hauler trailer (up on blocks since that last rollover)
and one for a small boat. Doubt very many folks cound get thier plane
into a 16'x25' square.

Harry Frey

[Mike Isaksen]

"Lou" > wrote ...
> I found a small grass strip by me that will let me build
> a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
>

Devil in the details:
Who pays the property taxes on it?
Who owns it if you move next year?
Who owns it after it is fully paid off?

Most of these "deals" involve you building it, the land owner takes claim
and pays taxes as part of airport improvement, you get a "good but seldom
great" long term lease.

And to the guy with access to a $500 per month hanger; they are $700-800
monthly for a T-hanger with concrete floor and a single 15amp circuit in the
Greater NYC area. That's a great paint job every year.

[Lou]

On May 30, 2:38 pm, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:
> "Lou" > wrote ...
>
> > I found a small grass strip by me that will let me build
> > a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
>
> Devil in the details:
> Who pays the property taxes on it?
It would be considered a temperory building, so low taxes

> Who owns it if you move next year?
If you design it right, you should be able to tear it down and take
it.

> Who owns it after it is fully paid off?
See above

>
> Most of these "deals" involve you building it, the land owner takes claim
> and pays taxes as part of airport improvement, you get a "good but seldom
> great" long term lease.
>
> And to the guy with access to a $500 per month hanger; they are $700-800
> monthly for a T-hanger with concrete floor and a single 15amp circuit in the
> Greater NYC area. That's a great paint job every year.

I'll be honest, if I had to pay $700 a year, I would consider an all
metal
airplane, keep it outside and sock the money away for a custom paint
job every few years. But thats just me.
Lou

[Peter Dohm]

"Mike Isaksen" > wrote in message
news:HIY%j.130$v%.21@trndny04...
>
> "Lou" > wrote ...
>> I found a small grass strip by me that will let me build
>> a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
>>
>
> Devil in the details:
> Who pays the property taxes on it?
> Who owns it if you move next year?
> Who owns it after it is fully paid off?
>
> Most of these "deals" involve you building it, the land owner takes claim
> and pays taxes as part of airport improvement, you get a "good but seldom
> great" long term lease.
>
> And to the guy with access to a $500 per month hanger; they are $700-800
> monthly for a T-hanger with concrete floor and a single 15amp circuit in
> the Greater NYC area. That's a great paint job every year.
>
I have not personally checked, but friends have been quoting $700-800 and
rising in the Miami and Fort Lauderdale areas. Given the typical income
levels in the areas, the price makes a sort of sense (but not completely)
in the NYC area; but no sense at all in southern Florida. However, they are
still mostly occupied; so there is really no relief in sight...

Peter

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Steve Foley wrote:
> "Lou" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Oh I'm sure they do. I found a small grass strip by me that will let
>> me
>> build a solid hanger but charge me $50 a month to rent the ground.
>> Lou
>
> That's what I'm paying to rent the ground under my plane. The problem is
> that these things take up more space than a plane, especially if you
> alternate high wings and low wings.
>

That's pretty close to what I'm paying on the ground under my hanger on
an airport with 2 fully paved runways, several paved taxi ways
(including the one I'm on), ILS and other approaches and access to water
& electric.

The only down side is, well, you have to live in South Arkansas.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
...
> Jerry Springer > wrote:
<...>
> I'd be careful with these "Dri-Z-Air" things around a plane.
>
> I had one in my shop, sitting on top of my table saw. It was have full
> when I bumped it, spilling maybe a quarter cup. I was in a rush so I
> didn't clean it up right away. The NEXT day I had a really nasty patch
> of corrosion on the saw where the spill was.
>
> Now obviously a cast iron table saw has different metallurgy than a tube
> & fabric plane. But my point is that the liquid these things generate
> is not just simple water. Whatever it is, its pretty reactive and not
> something I would want around metal that my life depends on.

Calcium Chloride

It may make an impressive looking bucket of liquid, but unless you have it
in a tightly sealed space, it won't do much to reduce the humidity.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[[email protected]]

On May 29, 12:51 am, "Robert Loer" > wrote:
> Can not possibly afford a hanger and can not find a shelter so my plane will
> have to sit out. Is a fabric covered plane an absolute no-no? What can be
> done?

Fabric often sits outside, but the climate is a big factor as
is the type of fabric and cover system. Dry and cool climates don't
hurt much, but hot sun cooks the finish and moist climates can cause
condensation that corrodes the structure or results in mildew inside
the fabric. There are still some cotton-covered airplanes around that
shouldn't be outside.
What covering system is on it? How old is it? Is it well-
drained?

I see more damage to fabric-covered airplanes due to people
(Poke, poke. "Look, George, this here is just cloth painted to look
like metal. How devious can you get? Look how the paint cracks when
you push hard on it...oops, I stuck my finger right through it. Let's
get out of here. Pretend nothing happened.") and wind, which slams the
control surfaces around and blows dirt and dust into everything. And
hail. A hangar is more important for those reasons than for fabric
life, I'd say.

Dan

[Jerry Springer]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
> "Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Jerry Springer > wrote:
>
> <...>
>
>> I'd be careful with these "Dri-Z-Air" things around a plane.
>>
>> I had one in my shop, sitting on top of my table saw. It was have full
>> when I bumped it, spilling maybe a quarter cup. I was in a rush so I
>> didn't clean it up right away. The NEXT day I had a really nasty patch
>> of corrosion on the saw where the spill was.
>>
>> Now obviously a cast iron table saw has different metallurgy than a tube
>> & fabric plane. But my point is that the liquid these things generate
>> is not just simple water. Whatever it is, its pretty reactive and not
>> something I would want around metal that my life depends on.
>
>
> Calcium Chloride
>
> It may make an impressive looking bucket of liquid, but unless you have
> it in a tightly sealed space, it won't do much to reduce the humidity.
>
Better that liquid in that bucket than inside my airplane. And it works
great IF YOU keep it changed regularly.

[Lou]

Heres an alternative

http://www.shop.kennoncovers.com

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in message
m...
>
> That's pretty close to what I'm paying on the ground under my hanger on an
> airport with 2 fully paved runways, several paved taxi ways (including the
> one I'm on), ILS and other approaches and access to water & electric.
>
> The only down side is, well, you have to live in South Arkansas.

Hardly a down side if you appreciate the truly finer things, like peace,
quiet, low traffic.

[Lou]

> > That's pretty close to what I'm paying on the ground under my hanger on an
> > airport with 2 fully paved runways, several paved taxi ways (including the
> > one I'm on), ILS and other approaches and access to water & electric.
>
> > The only down side is, well, you have to live in South Arkansas.
>
> Hardly a down side if you appreciate the truly finer things, like peace,
> quiet, low traffic.

I have to agree, I've been looking around the county to see the cost
of living differences,
and southern Arkansas and northern Texas have some great communities
for early retirement.
Lou

[[email protected]]

On Jun 1, 11:43 pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:
> "Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in messagenews:386dnUZHy4m59N3VnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@super news.com...
>
>
>
> > That's pretty close to what I'm paying on the ground under my hanger on an
> > airport with 2 fully paved runways, several paved taxi ways (including the
> > one I'm on), ILS and other approaches and access to water & electric.
>
> > The only down side is, well, you have to live in South Arkansas.
>
> Hardly a down side if you appreciate the truly finer things, like peace,
> quiet, low traffic.

Affordable hangarage usually has its other costs. If it's
cheap, it's usually because there's little demand. I live in a town of
3300 or so, and manage the local one-runway uncontrolled airport. I
have an old, beat-up hangar that I paid $1000 for, and it costs $200
per year for the land lease and around $80 in taxes. It works to keep
the weather and curious fingers off the airplane, though I did have to
spend some money on paint and roofing. We have more land available for
more hangars, and as the town grows and folks in the cities an hour
away get pushed off their airports the demand will rise, along with
prices. Outside tiedown here has been free until this summer, when
it'll start costing $75 per year. Got to cover the costs of snow
removal and grass cutting and aging lighting systems and so forth.
Oh, and the weather here is often brutal in the winter. Not a
place that many want to retire to unless they're too old to go outside
much. Nice in the summer, though.

Dan

[Lou]

On Jun 2, 9:23 am, wrote:
> On Jun 1, 11:43 pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:
>
> > "Gig 601Xl Builder" > wrote in messagenews:386dnUZHy4m59N3VnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@super news.com...
>
> > > That's pretty close to what I'm paying on the ground under my hanger on an
> > > airport with 2 fully paved runways, several paved taxi ways (including the
> > > one I'm on), ILS and other approaches and access to water & electric.
>
> > > The only down side is, well, you have to live in South Arkansas.
>
> > Hardly a down side if you appreciate the truly finer things, like peace,
> > quiet, low traffic.
>
> Affordable hangarage usually has its other costs. If it's
> cheap, it's usually because there's little demand. I live in a town of
> 3300 or so, and manage the local one-runway uncontrolled airport. I
> have an old, beat-up hangar that I paid $1000 for, and it costs $200
> per year for the land lease and around $80 in taxes. It works to keep
> the weather and curious fingers off the airplane, though I did have to
> spend some money on paint and roofing. We have more land available for
> more hangars, and as the town grows and folks in the cities an hour
> away get pushed off their airports the demand will rise, along with
> prices. Outside tiedown here has been free until this summer, when
> it'll start costing $75 per year. Got to cover the costs of snow
> removal and grass cutting and aging lighting systems and so forth.
> Oh, and the weather here is often brutal in the winter. Not a
> place that many want to retire to unless they're too old to go outside
> much. Nice in the summer, though.
>
> Dan

Although where I fly out of isn't as inexpensive (notice I didn't say
cheap?), it sounds
very much like my airport. And no, I wouldn't retire to this place,
but I'm starting
to look around.
Lou