Anyone preserved a bare fuselage? Cosmoline?

[Michael Horowitz]

I have my 4130 fuselage on wheels but am short on space to work on
wings, so I'm looking at alternate storage for the bare (all pulleys,
cables, wood, fabric removed) fuselage.

someone suggested WD-40 and when ready, using brakefluid to remove the
oil prior to sandblasting. WD-40 seems too temporary.

Recalling rumors of "jeeps in Cosmoline", I GOOGLED for it; apparently
it's still available.

Anyone coated any steel in Cosmoline lately? Any problems when it
comes time to remove? - MikeH

[flybynightkarmarepair]

On May 31, 6:16 am, Michael Horowitz > wrote:
> I have my 4130 fuselage on wheels but am short on space to work on
> wings, so I'm looking at alternate storage for the bare (all pulleys,
> cables, wood, fabric removed) fuselage.
>
> someone suggested WD-40 and when ready, using brakefluid to remove the
> oil prior to sandblasting. WD-40 seems too temporary.
>
> Recalling rumors of "jeeps in Cosmoline", I GOOGLED for it; apparently
> it's still available.
>
> Anyone coated any steel in Cosmoline lately? Any problems when it
> comes time to remove? - MikeH

There are a number of different grades of Mil-spec preservative
(Cosmoline being a brand name from one manufacturer), and they can be
a BITCH to get off in the heavier grades. Steam cleaning being
preferred for the heaviest grades. Think "Vaseline".

IMHO, blast and paint the fuselage NOW.

If you don't take this advice, then look at "Fluid Film", which is
lanolin based, and available wherever John Deere gimme caps are
distributed, but you're still taking a risk that when you DO paint,
the oily residue of the preservative or the solvents used to remove it
will mess up your paint job. DO NOT use anything with silicones in
it, or you will never get paint to stick to it, without using special
cleaners.

[[email protected]]

The old fashioned way was to 'glove it.' Or rag it :-)

Mix up some DILUTE zinc chromate.

Put on a pair of rubber gloves.

Put on a pair of COTTON gloves.

Pour some ZC into your palm.

Rub it on the airframe.

Or you can just grab a rag with something that will keep the ZC off
your hands, pour a little ZC onto the rag and rub away.

You end up with a THIN coating of ZC - you can see right through it.
Cover the airframe with a tarp, it'll stay rust free for a year or
more... at which time you give it another rub-down. Handy thing is
that you can grasp the whole tube, wipe ZC on all sides at once. LOTS
faster than spraying and a lot thinner than brushing.

Start on one end of the fuselage, work your way down, arouind and back
to the starting point, takes about 20 minutes for a Knight Twister,
mebbe three-quarters of an hour for a Cub.

You do the same thing with pieces of tubing & flat-stock in the shop,
although you usually use 5W motor oil (ie, 3-in-1, etc.).

-R.S.Hoover

[Michael Horowitz]

On Sat, 31 May 2008 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT), "
> wrote:

>The old fashioned way was to 'glove it.' Or rag it :-)
>
>Mix up some DILUTE zinc chromate
>
>-R.S.Hoover

is diluted with......?
1:1?
1:3?
- Mike

[[email protected]]

> is diluted with......?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That depends on what you're starting with, which was usually the
residue of earlier work, saved specifically for this sort of job.
Most often, you'd start with stuff already thinned for spraying, use
whatever thinner or reducer was used on the original batch. The
objective was to produce about a quart of water-thin mixture, most of
which ends up on the rag or glove (you squeeze harder when the 'wipe'
starts thinning out).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1:1?
> 1:3?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Normal use for liquid ZC is 1:1 with reducer, which you then fine-tune
according to the type of gun you're using. At a guess, that would be
further thinned by about 1:1 for wiping.

Starting with paste, using mineral spirits, it's probably on the order
of 6:1.

The whole idea here is to use what's already at hand, and to produce a
finish that is as easy to REMOVE as it is to apply because it wasn't
economically practical to produce just one fully-finished airframe at
a time. Instead, they were produced in small batches. In the serial
production of airframes, a lot of shops had only one 'finish' weldor
and space for only one airframe. (Back then, you made your own
acetylene and most welding was done near the generator.) Once the
basic airframe was 'on the gear' (which was often just a cart or pair
of dolly-wheels), it would usually get gloved and stood on its nose...
or moved outside the welding area. When it came time to add all the
tangs, clips, brackets & fittings, an airframe was returned to the
shop, the areas on the airframe that were to receive new weldments
were wiped down to remove the ZC and the parts positioned using jigs
that attached to the airframe. It sounds pretty low-tech and it was,
but some famous shops operated that way for 20 years or more.

Cosmoline and other wax- or grease-based surfactants were normally
reserved for MACHINED surfaces, like axles or weapons -- parts that
would not normally receive paint in any case.

-R.S.Hoover

PS -- Some shops didn't use zinc chromate on steel, preferring to use
various anti-corrosion paint commonly referred to as 'red lead.' Same
general rules applied: thin coat wiped on for temporary storage,
final coat sprayed-on then sealed with varnish or paint.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sat, 31 May 2008 09:16:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:

>I have my 4130 fuselage on wheels but am short on space to work on
>wings, so I'm looking at alternate storage for the bare (all pulleys,
>cables, wood, fabric removed) fuselage.
>
>someone suggested WD-40 and when ready, using brakefluid to remove the
>oil prior to sandblasting. WD-40 seems too temporary.
>
>Recalling rumors of "jeeps in Cosmoline", I GOOGLED for it; apparently
>it's still available.
>
>Anyone coated any steel in Cosmoline lately? Any problems when it
>comes time to remove? - MikeH

gee you giys do this the hard way.
I had an RLU breezy fuselage in bare steel stored in my hangar
(deceased estate awaiting a new owner) I couldnt stand the slow
rusting so I painted it in a 50:50 mix of linseed oil and turpentine.
gave it a really good slosh all over with a very wet paint brush.

the mix dries off to a poor mans varnish but gets into the rust and
stops it cold.

that fuselage sat in my hangar for another 2 years with not one scrap
of extra corrosion on it.
an aquaintance bought it and got it flying without any complaints re
cleaning it off.

I believe mek or acetone would just wipe the linseed off. if you are
bead blasting the thing clean before painting it that will do the
trick as well.

simple as hell. if you miss a bit you can make up some more and give
it another slosh.
Stealth Pilot

[Michael Horowitz]

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:05:40 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

>On Sat, 31 May 2008 09:16:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:
>
>>I have my 4130 fuselage on wheels but am short on space to work on
>>wings, so I'm looking at alternate storage for the bare (all pulleys,
>>cables, wood, fabric removed) fuselage.
>>
>>someone suggested WD-40 and when ready, using brakefluid to remove the
>>oil prior to sandblasting. WD-40 seems too temporary.
>>
>>Recalling rumors of "jeeps in Cosmoline", I GOOGLED for it; apparently
>>it's still available.
>>
>>Anyone coated any steel in Cosmoline lately? Any problems when it
>>comes time to remove? - MikeH
>
>gee you giys do this the hard way.
>I had an RLU breezy fuselage in bare steel stored in my hangar
>(deceased estate awaiting a new owner) I couldnt stand the slow
>rusting so I painted it in a 50:50 mix of linseed oil and turpentine.
>gave it a really good slosh all over with a very wet paint brush.
>
>the mix dries off to a poor mans varnish but gets into the rust and
>stops it cold.
>
>that fuselage sat in my hangar for another 2 years with not one scrap
>of extra corrosion on it.
>an aquaintance bought it and got it flying without any complaints re
>cleaning it off.
>
>I believe mek or acetone would just wipe the linseed off. if you are
>bead blasting the thing clean before painting it that will do the
>trick as well.
>
>simple as hell. if you miss a bit you can make up some more and give
>it another slosh.
>Stealth Pilot


Stealth - some feedback. I polished some tubing dipped the end into
your mixture, allowed it to dry and put it on the back deck, Three
thunderstorms and three weeks later, rust is forming over the black
factory coating, but not over the area I polished and applied the
diluted linseed oil. So far, so good. - Mike

[Michael Horowitz]

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:05:40 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

Stealth - Can you think of any way to tint the turp/oil mix? when it
comes time to remove it, it would help if I could see that I got it
all off (assuming I use a solvent of some type) - Mike

[[email protected]]

On Nov 22, 12:29*pm, Michael Horowitz > wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:05:40 +0800, Stealth Pilot
>
> > wrote:
>
> Stealth - Can you think of any way to tint the *turp/oil mix? when it
> comes time to remove it, it would help if I could see that I got it
> all off (assuming I use a solvent of some type) - Mike

I just lurk here but artists oil paint will work or add dry artist's
pigment (not Paint). Artist's oil paint is traditionaly boiled linseed
oil and pigment ground together. Turpentine is the solvent for oil
paints.
Karl

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:29:37 -0500, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:05:40 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:
>
>Stealth - Can you think of any way to tint the turp/oil mix? when it
>comes time to remove it, it would help if I could see that I got it
>all off (assuming I use a solvent of some type) - Mike
>
just use any brightly coloured powdered dye. what you have in the
linseed oil/turps mix is a poor mans varnish without any of the modern
additives. a finely crushed bricklayer's iron oxide red would probably
be suitable.
but ummmm. isnt the surface a dark rusted colour anyway.
when you come to prepare for the final finishing you will be bead
blasting the thing with ballottini (glass beads) and these should take
the linseed off in a trice. the surface will become a light gunmetal
gray colour (unless your air supply isnt dry)
I'm pretty sure a wipe of MEK would do it as well, maybe even neat
turps but dont agonise over it now wait until the final bead blast.

I actually dont know what happened to the fuselage I coated. it is on
the other side of australia now.

Stealth Pilot

[Michael Horowitz]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:53:57 -0800 (PST), "
> wrote:


>I just lurk here but artists oil paint will work or add dry artist's
>pigment (not Paint). Artist's oil paint is traditionaly boiled linseed
>oil and pigment ground together. Turpentine is the solvent for oil
>paints.
>Karl


Thanks Karl - Mike

[Michael Horowitz]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:41:51 +0900, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:29:37 -0500, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:05:40 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:
>>

>but ummmm. isnt the surface a dark rusted colour anyway.
>
>Stealth Pilot


Stealth - recall that what I'm doing is sandblasting/wirebrushing a
small section at a time and coming back to it a month later to do
another small section. The turp/oil mix is to protect the surface
until the whole fuselage is blasted/brushed at which time I'll remove
the turp/oil mix and apply (probably) two part epoxy. So to answer
your query, after blasting/brushing, no, it will be frosty steel color
- Mike

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote

> I actually dont know what happened to the fuselage I coated. it is on
> the other side of australia now.

Sounds like you need to go on a walkabout, and see how it's doin, mate!
<ducking and grinning>
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:47:33 -0500, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:41:51 +0900, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:29:37 -0500, Michael Horowitz
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:05:40 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:
>>>
>
>>but ummmm. isnt the surface a dark rusted colour anyway.
>>
>>Stealth Pilot
>
>
>Stealth - recall that what I'm doing is sandblasting/wirebrushing a
>small section at a time and coming back to it a month later to do
>another small section. The turp/oil mix is to protect the surface
>until the whole fuselage is blasted/brushed at which time I'll remove
>the turp/oil mix and apply (probably) two part epoxy. So to answer
>your query, after blasting/brushing, no, it will be frosty steel color
>- Mike
Use a light wash of cheap rust paint. Aluminum TremClad will wash off
with thinners or gasoline even after several years.Colours are not
much better.

Mix it with your Turps/linseed if you like

[John Kimmel]

Michael Horowitz wrote:

> Stealth - recall that what I'm doing is sandblasting/wirebrushing a
> small section at a time and coming back to it a month later to do
> another small section. The turp/oil mix is to protect the surface
> until the whole fuselage is blasted/brushed at which time I'll remove
> the turp/oil mix and apply (probably) two part epoxy. So to answer
> your query, after blasting/brushing, no, it will be frosty steel color
> - Mike
>
If you're blasting a small section at a time, why don't you just prime it as you go along, then touch it up when it's done? The paint
will stick a lot better to freshly blasted metal and you'll save yourself a lot of work.

--
John Kimmel


I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:07:14 -0800, John Kimmel
> wrote:

>Michael Horowitz wrote:
>
>> Stealth - recall that what I'm doing is sandblasting/wirebrushing a
>> small section at a time and coming back to it a month later to do
>> another small section. The turp/oil mix is to protect the surface
>> until the whole fuselage is blasted/brushed at which time I'll remove
>> the turp/oil mix and apply (probably) two part epoxy. So to answer
>> your query, after blasting/brushing, no, it will be frosty steel color
>> - Mike
>>
>If you're blasting a small section at a time, why don't you just prime it as you go along, then touch it up when it's done? The paint
>will stick a lot better to freshly blasted metal and you'll save yourself a lot of work.

that advise is probably the best.
you can mix the epoxy primer in small amounts quite easily.
I used a small revell aeromodellers airbrush to spray on the primer.
almost no overspray, minimal solvent smells, and no slower than any
other technique.

Stealth Pilot