Angel Flight Down

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

Here in Iowa City. One person -- the child being transported for medical
care -- perished. Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8

It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to depart
into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. It rained extremely
hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history indicates a
dramatic wind shift.

A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. Using the
aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
tailwind. Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.

Be careful out there, guys and gals.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Darkwing]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:%hx1k.193831$yE1.173730@attbi_s21...
> Here in Iowa City. One person -- the child being transported for medical
> care -- perished. Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to
> depart into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. It rained
> extremely hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history
> indicates a dramatic wind shift.
>
> A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by
> a very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. Using the
> aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
> TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> tailwind. Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>
> Be careful out there, guys and gals.
> --


Well that is ridiculously sad.

[[email protected]]

On Jun 4, 8:04*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Here in Iowa City. *One person -- the child being transported for medical
> care -- perished. * Read more here: *http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to depart
> into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. *It rained extremely
> hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history indicates a
> dramatic wind shift.
>
> A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
> very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. *Using the
> aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
> TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> tailwind. *Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>
> Be careful out there, guys and gals.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Don't forget the basics you learned from your instructor: "take off
INTO the wind"

[More_Flaps]

On Jun 5, 2:04*am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

>
> A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
> very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. *Using the
> aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
> TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> tailwind. *Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>

Was that takeoff distance calculated from MTOW and air transport
safety margins? Would the plane be near MTOW with those PAX?

Cheers

[Jim Burns]

No, it was using the mid weight TOW chart found in the POH, adjusted for
density altitude, rounded the wind down to a steady 20kts and totally
disregarding the 41mph gusts. It would not be beyond reason to believe that
the pilot may have attempted to rotate early, climbed into ground effect,
encountered a gust, and stalled.

If he would have used the 70% of take off speed within 50% of the runway
length rule of thumb, he would have pulled the power adjacent to the
windsock that was out his co-pilot window and pointed nearly in his
direction of travel, he drove right past it.

Jim

[Gezellig[_2_]]

Jay Honeck laid this down on his screen :
> A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
> very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. Using the aircraft's
> POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the TBM would've
> needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the tailwind.
> Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.

Do you think he didn't know this or felt he could T/O regardless?

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 07:59:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>Don't forget the basics you learned from your instructor: "take off
>INTO the wind"

Writing generally, and not about this particular accidents, there are many
instances where that is not the best course of action, and it is safer to
takeoff with a tail wind than a head wind. Of course, you need to do the
math, but you should be doing that, to some extent, before any operation.
--ron

[[email protected]]

On Jun 4, 10:04 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Here in Iowa City. One person -- the child being transported for medical
> care -- perished. Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to depart
> into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. It rained extremely
> hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history indicates a
> dramatic wind shift.
>
> A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
> very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. Using the
> aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
> TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> tailwind. Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.

The article reports that the crash was "shortly before 10:08
a.m." (CDT). Wind at that time was 10023G36. If the pilot took off
from runway 30 with that kind of tailwind, it's no wonder he crashed.

The reported address of the crash site is just off the departure end
of runway 30 (map: http://tinyurl.com/6coeyb). But nothing in the
article says the departure was from runway 30. Perhaps the pilot took
off from runway 12, had partial engine failure, and tried to circle
back to land. (There are survivors, including the pilot, so we'll
probably find out.)

METARs ( http://tinyurl.com/69psdj):

METAR KIOW 031452Z AUTO 10025G31KT 2 1/2SM RA BR FEW007 BKN026 OVC034
14/14 A2957 RMK AO2 PK WND 11031/1452 TSE19 PRESFR SLP010 P0042 60202
T01440139 58015

SPECI KIOW 031504Z AUTO 10023G36KT 5SM -RA BR BKN021 14/14 A2951 RMK
AO2 PK WND 10036/1503 LTG DSNT NE AND SE PRESFR P0001

SPECI KIOW 031512Z AUTO 09023G36KT 7SM SCT025 14/14 A2945 RMK AO2 PK
WND 10036/1507 LTG DSNT E RAE12 PRESFR P0001

[[email protected]]

The preliminary NTSB report confirms that the takeoff was from runway
30:
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20080611X00836&key=1


On Jun 5, 10:23*am, wrote:
> On Jun 4, 10:04 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> > Here in Iowa City. *One person -- the child being transported for medical
> > care -- perished. * Read more here: *http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> > It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to depart
> > into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. *It rained extremely
> > hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history indicates a
> > dramatic wind shift.
>
> > A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
> > very experiencedAngelFlight(like, 57 flights) pilot. *Using the
> > aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
> > TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> > tailwind. *Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>
> The article reports that the crash was "shortly before 10:08
> a.m." (CDT). Wind at that time was 10023G36. If the pilot took off
> from runway 30 with that kind of tailwind, it's no wonder he crashed.
>
> The reported address of the crash site is just off the departure end
> of runway 30 (map:http://tinyurl.com/6coeyb). But nothing in the
> article says the departure was from runway 30. Perhaps the pilot took
> off from runway 12, had partial engine failure, and tried to circle
> back to land. (There are survivors, including the pilot, so we'll
> probably find out.)
>
> METARs (http://tinyurl.com/69psdj):
>
> METAR KIOW 031452Z AUTO 10025G31KT 2 1/2SM RA BR FEW007 BKN026 OVC034
> 14/14 A2957 RMK AO2 PK WND 11031/1452 TSE19 PRESFR SLP010 P0042 60202
> T01440139 58015
>
> SPECI KIOW 031504Z AUTO 10023G36KT 5SM -RA BR BKN021 14/14 A2951 RMK
> AO2 PK WND 10036/1503 LTG DSNT NE AND SE PRESFR P0001
>
> SPECI KIOW 031512Z AUTO 09023G36KT 7SM SCT025 14/14 A2945 RMK AO2 PK
> WND 10036/1507 LTG DSNT E RAE12 PRESFR P0001

[[email protected]]

On Jun 5, 8:23*am, wrote:
> On Jun 4, 10:04 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> > Here in Iowa City. *One person -- the child being transported for medical
> > care -- perished. * Read more here: *http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> > It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to depart
> > into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. *It rained extremely
> > hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history indicates a
> > dramatic wind shift.
>
> > A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown by a
> > very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. *Using the
> > aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that the
> > TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> > tailwind. *Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>
> The article reports that the crash was "shortly before 10:08
> a.m." (CDT). Wind at that time was 10023G36. If the pilot took off
> from runway 30 with that kind of tailwind, it's no wonder he crashed.
>
> The reported address of the crash site is just off the departure end
> of runway 30 (map:http://tinyurl.com/6coeyb). But nothing in the
> article says the departure was from runway 30. Perhaps the pilot took
> off from runway 12, had partial engine failure, and tried to circle
> back to land. (There are survivors, including the pilot, so we'll
> probably find out.)
>
> METARs (http://tinyurl.com/69psdj):
>
> METAR KIOW 031452Z AUTO 10025G31KT 2 1/2SM RA BR FEW007 BKN026 OVC034
> 14/14 A2957 RMK AO2 PK WND 11031/1452 TSE19 PRESFR SLP010 P0042 60202
> T01440139 58015
>
> SPECI KIOW 031504Z AUTO 10023G36KT 5SM -RA BR BKN021 14/14 A2951 RMK
> AO2 PK WND 10036/1503 LTG DSNT NE AND SE PRESFR P0001
>
> SPECI KIOW 031512Z AUTO 09023G36KT 7SM SCT025 14/14 A2945 RMK AO2 PK
> WND 10036/1507 LTG DSNT E RAE12 PRESFR P0001

I will bet five bucks the pilot will claim he remembers nothing of the
whole event..

Ben.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

wrote:
>
>I will bet five bucks the pilot will claim he remembers nothing of the
>whole event..
>

Nothing unusual about that. A good bang on the head will often result in
some memory loss.

When I crashed my Cessna, it took several days before I could remember
events leading up to the engine failure and emergecy landing. I still have
no memory of the actual accident.

It's not like I needed to conveniently "not remember" events for the NTSB
or FAA investigators. They both gave me pats on the back for making the best
of a bad situation.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200806/1

[[email protected]]

On Jun 12, 11:04*am, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >I will bet five bucks the pilot will claim he remembers nothing of the
> >whole event..
>
> * Nothing unusual about that. *A good bang on the head will often result in
> some memory loss.
>
> * When I crashed my Cessna, it took several days before I could remember
> events leading up to the engine failure and emergecy landing. *I still have
> no memory of the actual accident. *
>
> * It's not like I needed to conveniently "not remember" events for the NTSB
> or FAA investigators. *They both gave me pats on the back for making the best
> of a bad situation.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>
> --
> Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200806/1

Just after I hit the send button I remembered I didn't add the smilie
thing.. :<).. my comment was in jest.

Ben

[Aluckyguess]

> wrote in message
...
On Jun 5, 8:23 am, wrote:
> On Jun 4, 10:04 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> > Here in Iowa City. One person -- the child being transported for medical
> > care -- perished. Read more here: http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> > It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to
> > depart
> > into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. It rained
> > extremely
> > hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history
> > indicates a
> > dramatic wind shift.
>
> > A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown
> > by a
> > very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. Using the
> > aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that
> > the
> > TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> > tailwind. Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>
> The article reports that the crash was "shortly before 10:08
> a.m." (CDT). Wind at that time was 10023G36. If the pilot took off
> from runway 30 with that kind of tailwind, it's no wonder he crashed.
>
> The reported address of the crash site is just off the departure end
> of runway 30 (map:http://tinyurl.com/6coeyb). But nothing in the
> article says the departure was from runway 30. Perhaps the pilot took
> off from runway 12, had partial engine failure, and tried to circle
> back to land. (There are survivors, including the pilot, so we'll
> probably find out.)
>
> METARs (http://tinyurl.com/69psdj):
>
> METAR KIOW 031452Z AUTO 10025G31KT 2 1/2SM RA BR FEW007 BKN026 OVC034
> 14/14 A2957 RMK AO2 PK WND 11031/1452 TSE19 PRESFR SLP010 P0042 60202
> T01440139 58015
>
> SPECI KIOW 031504Z AUTO 10023G36KT 5SM -RA BR BKN021 14/14 A2951 RMK
> AO2 PK WND 10036/1503 LTG DSNT NE AND SE PRESFR P0001
>
> SPECI KIOW 031512Z AUTO 09023G36KT 7SM SCT025 14/14 A2945 RMK AO2 PK
> WND 10036/1507 LTG DSNT E RAE12 PRESFR P0001

I will bet five bucks the pilot will claim he remembers nothing of the
whole event..

Ben.
I went head on with another motorcycle I cant remember it. I think I lost
about 30 seconds before the hit also.

[[email protected]]

On Jun 14, 7:32*am, "aluckyguess" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jun 5, 8:23 am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 4, 10:04 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> > > Here in Iowa City. One person -- the child being transported for medical
> > > care -- perished. Read more here:http://tinyurl.com/6dxct8
>
> > > It's too soon to say for sure, but it appears the pilot attempted to
> > > depart
> > > into stormy weather, apparently with a gusty tail wind. It rained
> > > extremely
> > > hard here right before we heard the sirens, and the AWOS history
> > > indicates a
> > > dramatic wind shift.
>
> > > A TBM-850 is a very capable turboprop aircraft, and it was being flown
> > > by a
> > > very experienced Angel Flight (like, 57 flights) pilot. Using the
> > > aircraft's POH and the AWOS history, another pilot has determined that
> > > the
> > > TBM would've needed something like 4200 feet to get airborne, given the
> > > tailwind. Unfortunately, Rwy 30 is only 3900 feet long.
>
> > The article reports that the crash was "shortly before 10:08
> > a.m." (CDT). Wind at that time was 10023G36. If the pilot took off
> > from runway 30 with that kind of tailwind, it's no wonder he crashed.
>
> > The reported address of the crash site is just off the departure end
> > of runway 30 (map:http://tinyurl.com/6coeyb). But nothing in the
> > article says the departure was from runway 30. Perhaps the pilot took
> > off from runway 12, had partial engine failure, and tried to circle
> > back to land. (There are survivors, including the pilot, so we'll
> > probably find out.)
>
> > METARs (http://tinyurl.com/69psdj):
>
> > METAR KIOW 031452Z AUTO 10025G31KT 2 1/2SM RA BR FEW007 BKN026 OVC034
> > 14/14 A2957 RMK AO2 PK WND 11031/1452 TSE19 PRESFR SLP010 P0042 60202
> > T01440139 58015
>
> > SPECI KIOW 031504Z AUTO 10023G36KT 5SM -RA BR BKN021 14/14 A2951 RMK
> > AO2 PK WND 10036/1503 LTG DSNT NE AND SE PRESFR P0001
>
> > SPECI KIOW 031512Z AUTO 09023G36KT 7SM SCT025 14/14 A2945 RMK AO2 PK
> > WND 10036/1507 LTG DSNT E RAE12 PRESFR P0001
>
> I will bet five bucks the pilot will claim he remembers nothing of the
> whole event..
>
> Ben.
> I went head on with another motorcycle I cant remember it. I think I lost
> about 30 seconds before the hit also.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ya. I admit the loss of memory thing. I have crashed hydroplanes more
then once at over 100 mph, gone down while motocrossing more then I
will admit, been hit while riding a 10 speed by a car going 65+. I do
remember hearing the headlight breaking, or was it the
windshield, :<(. nothing after that till they were loading me up in
the meat wagon. So. yeah the rung your bell concept is real, been
there, done that. One thing also, the mother of the kid was on that
flight too, she survived. There is a high probability she, read her
attorney,, will be able to coax her memory as to why this guy took off
in 30+ mph tailwinds. Stay tuned for higher insurance rates...

Rant over and flame suit on.