Experimental FAA registration

[[email protected]]

I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update. A
fiend is purchasing a glider that is registered experimental under
Racing/Exhibition. It presently has a "letter of operation" that
limits it to 300nm from the home airport. It requires "notification"
to the FAA when moved out of the area. Questions:
-Is this the only way that the "Letters of Operation" are written for
sailplanes?
-The "Letter of Operation" is not very specific on how or how long
before the move, one notifies the FAA. Can it be done by phone, fax,
email, snail mail?
I have had two new experimental sailplanes in the past and did not
have the 300nm or notification restrictions in my "L o O" after the
initial required time was flown.

Any input will be appreciated.

Tom
Idaho

[[email protected]]

On Jun 5, 9:11 am, " > wrote:
> I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update. A
> fiend is purchasing a glider that is registered experimental under
> Racing/Exhibition. It presently has a "letter of operation" that
> limits it to 300nm from the home airport. It requires "notification"
> to the FAA when moved out of the area. Questions:
> -Is this the only way that the "Letters of Operation" are written for
> sailplanes?
> -The "Letter of Operation" is not very specific on how or how long
> before the move, one notifies the FAA. Can it be done by phone, fax,
> email, snail mail?
> I have had two new experimental sailplanes in the past and did not
> have the 300nm or notification restrictions in my "L o O" after the
> initial required time was flown.
>
> Any input will be appreciated.
>
> Tom
> Idaho

Tom,
It varies from FSDO to FSDO. Obviously the letter of the law says
one thing. When I asked the inspector in San Diego that took care of
my experimental LOA, he basically rolled his eyes and said their real
concern was warbirds and jet trainers that rich pilots are augering in
with regularity. And I was so naive about the LOA that it was only
pointed out to me at my first annual inspection that the Reno issued
LOA didn't cover my glider based in Warner Springs.(I was really
illegal my first year). So technically yes, one should notify the
FAA, but if you really think they care about you towing your glider to
a contest several states away you are mistaken. Just don't
crash! :-)

Dean "GO"

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jun 5, 9:11*am, " > wrote:
> I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update.

I believe all FSDO's will issue standard boilerplate documents with
any new certification. The older ones seem to be more liberal and may
have varied from district to district. Mine requires an operations
letter to be submitted every year.

Each year I FAX my operations letter to my local FSDO. I keep it as
general as possible. It includes my intent to fly in Regional and
National contest on dates, and at places, published by Soaring Society
of America. It also states my intent to practice for, and attempt,
record flights in places where weather conditions are suitable.

I have never received any feedback, doubt anyone even reads it, but
keep the FAX receipt anyway.

Andy

[Frank Whiteley]

On Jun 5, 1:29 pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 9:11 am, " > wrote:
>
> > I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update.
>
> I believe all FSDO's will issue standard boilerplate documents with
> any new certification. The older ones seem to be more liberal and may
> have varied from district to district. Mine requires an operations
> letter to be submitted every year.
>
> Each year I FAX my operations letter to my local FSDO. I keep it as
> general as possible. It includes my intent to fly in Regional and
> National contest on dates, and at places, published by Soaring Society
> of America. It also states my intent to practice for, and attempt,
> record flights in places where weather conditions are suitable.
>
> I have never received any feedback, doubt anyone even reads it, but
> keep the FAX receipt anyway.
>
> Andy

The FAA isn't auditing your compliance. They will check your
compliance should you ever come to their attention.

The specific issue is whether the experimental glider is an import,
and whether it's pre-moratorium or post-moratorium. I've encountered
more than a few post-moratorium owners flying without a valid
airworthiness. It's pretty clearly spelled out in FAA Order 8130.2F
with chg3. Everthing group I or All applies. If you import or buy a
post-moratorium glider, you will need to visit with the FSDO (for
free) or a DAR (for fee). The 300 mile radius does not apply for
every flight and deviations from your annual program letter need to be
faxed to the FSDO.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

On Jun 5, 1:52 pm, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 1:29 pm, Andy > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 5, 9:11 am, " > wrote:
>
> > > I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update.
>
> > I believe all FSDO's will issue standard boilerplate documents with
> > any new certification. The older ones seem to be more liberal and may
> > have varied from district to district. Mine requires an operations
> > letter to be submitted every year.
>
> > Each year I FAX my operations letter to my local FSDO. I keep it as
> > general as possible. It includes my intent to fly in Regional and
> > National contest on dates, and at places, published by Soaring Society
> > of America. It also states my intent to practice for, and attempt,
> > record flights in places where weather conditions are suitable.
>
> > I have never received any feedback, doubt anyone even reads it, but
> > keep the FAX receipt anyway.
>
> > Andy
>
> The FAA isn't auditing your compliance. They will check your
> compliance should you ever come to their attention.
>
> The specific issue is whether the experimental glider is an import,
> and whether it's pre-moratorium or post-moratorium. I've encountered
> more than a few post-moratorium owners flying without a valid
> airworthiness. It's pretty clearly spelled out in FAA Order 8130.2F
> with chg3. Everthing group I or All applies. If you import or buy a
> post-moratorium glider, you will need to visit with the FSDO (for
> free) or a DAR (for fee). The 300 mile radius does not apply for
> every flight and deviations from your annual program letter need to be
> faxed to the FSDO.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
> Frank Whiteley

Where is the restriction placed? On the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate? I have experimental AC, registration but none of those
documents refers to 300 miles restriction. How do I find that out.

Jacek
Pasco, WA

[noel.wade]

Frank recently alerted me to this issue as well. The moratorium was
in the early-to-mid-90's, and everything imported after that date is
pretty much subject to this stuff. NOTE that I said "imported" - date
of manufacture doesn't play a role, AFAIK.

I did some research, and here's what I've come up with:

The key to look for is whether the letter is called out as part of the
"Operating Limitations". You'll note that almost all Special
Airworthiness certificates (i.e. Experimentals) in recent years state
that the aircraft is subject to all of the Operating Limitations.

If the SA certificate refers to the letter, or the letter talks about
being part of the Operating Limitations (or part of the SA cert
itself), then its a bundled package that you must consider as a single
document. Operating outside of the conditions in the letter is
considered a violation of the Airworthiness certificate itself.

To change the conditions for legal flight, you must have the FSDO or a
DAR come out, look at the aircraft, and draft up a new Airworthiness
Cert and/or Operating Limitations letter.

I've heard that having the current paperwork and a recent annual (and/
or A&P onsite at the time) helps...

Take care,

--Noel

[[email protected]]

The current FAA Order 8130.2F, Chg 3 has all the information you need.
This is the document your FSDO uses to create the ops limitations for
your experimental glider. If your airworthiness certificate and ops
limitations are pre-1993, then you need to not do anything, unless
your ops limitations specify otherwise. If post 1993, then you have to
follow the requirements of the limitations and the order (it's all in
the order somewhere).

When you fax your annual program letter in to the FSDO, your PI at the
FSDO reads it and then puts it in the file they have on your
experimental aircraft. About the only time it comes back out is when
you have an accident, or otherwise come to the attention of the FSDO,
perhaps a change in limitations, or you want to modify the aircraft or
whatever. At least that what happens in the Seattle FSDO.

Jim

[Andrew Wood[_2_]]

I don't think a new Program letter needs to be sent in each year, unless
there are significant changes (see para 132 of the Order).



At 14:31 06 June 2008, wrote:
>The current FAA Order 8130.2F, Chg 3 has all the information you need.
>This is the document your FSDO uses to create the ops limitations for
>your experimental glider. If your airworthiness certificate and ops
>limitations are pre-1993, then you need to not do anything, unless
>your ops limitations specify otherwise. If post 1993, then you have to
>follow the requirements of the limitations and the order (it's all in
>the order somewhere).
>
>When you fax your annual program letter in to the FSDO, your PI at the
>FSDO reads it and then puts it in the file they have on your
>experimental aircraft. About the only time it comes back out is when
>you have an accident, or otherwise come to the attention of the FSDO,
>perhaps a change in limitations, or you want to modify the aircraft or
>whatever. At least that what happens in the Seattle FSDO.
>
>Jim
>
andrew

[Bullwinkle]

On 6/6/08 9:29 PM, in article , "Andrew
Wood" > wrote:

> I don't think a new Program letter needs to be sent in each year, unless
> there are significant changes (see para 132 of the Order).
>
>
>
> At 14:31 06 June 2008, wrote:
>> The current FAA Order 8130.2F, Chg 3 has all the information you need.
>> This is the document your FSDO uses to create the ops limitations for
>> your experimental glider. If your airworthiness certificate and ops
>> limitations are pre-1993, then you need to not do anything, unless
>> your ops limitations specify otherwise. If post 1993, then you have to
>> follow the requirements of the limitations and the order (it's all in
>> the order somewhere).
>>
>> When you fax your annual program letter in to the FSDO, your PI at the
>> FSDO reads it and then puts it in the file they have on your
>> experimental aircraft. About the only time it comes back out is when
>> you have an accident, or otherwise come to the attention of the FSDO,
>> perhaps a change in limitations, or you want to modify the aircraft or
>> whatever. At least that what happens in the Seattle FSDO.
>>
>> Jim
>>
> andrew

My FSDO definitely requires a new Program Letter every year.

Bullwinkle

[[email protected]]

Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter. Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense - and then we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim

[jb92563]

On Jun 11, 2:37*pm, wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
> gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;
>
> Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
> (37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
> to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
> to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter. Of
> course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
> mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
> interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
> read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense *- and then we
> realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
> preferred task outcome.
>
> Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
> you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).
>
> While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
> we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
> certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
> Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
> the FAA..
>
> Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
> operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
> notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
> applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
> glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.
>
> Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
> Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
> allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
> states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations deemed
> necessary in the interest of safety."
>
> Jim

I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.

[[email protected]]

I don't know anything about what insurance companies will do, but if
you have an accident and the FAA determines you were not operating in
accordance with your operating limitations, then you may have problems
with the FAA.

Jim

>
> I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
> that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
> certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
> your claims?
>
> That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
> proper LOA filed with the FAA.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Andrew Wood[_2_]]

At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:
>On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
>> gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;
>>
>> Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
>> (37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
>> to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
>> to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter.
Of
>> course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
>> mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
>> interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
>> read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then we
>> realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
>> preferred task outcome.
>>
>> Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
>> you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).
>>
>> While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
>> we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
>> certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
>> Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
>> the FAA..
>>
>> Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
>> operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
>> notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
>> applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
>> glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.
>>
>> Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
>> Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
>> allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
>> states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
deemed
>> necessary in the interest of safety."
>>
>> Jim
>
>I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
>that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
>certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
>your claims?
>
>That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
>proper LOA filed with the FAA.
>

hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I confess
that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the operative
word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update, no
annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very broad,
with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I also
included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on the
FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that. The
real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the people
in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send them
unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could use,
instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
'merchandise'. Regards, andrew


andrew

[[email protected]]

Yes, Andrew, I agree with all of that. Some FSDO's want more than
others and some read the letters, others have much bigger fish to fry.
All depends on where you're at; or where they're at in the scheme of
things. Problems come when there is a problem, then everything gets
read and analyzed. Best to avoid problems in my opinion.

Jim.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, Andrew Wood > wrote:
> At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
> >> Andrew,
>
> >> Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
> >> gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;
>
> >> Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
> >> (37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
> >> to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
> >> to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter.
> Of
> >> course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
> >> mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
> >> interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
> >> read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then we
> >> realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
> >> preferred task outcome.
>
> >> Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
> >> you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).
>
> >> While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
> >> we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
> >> certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
> >> Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
> >> the FAA..
>
> >> Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
> >> operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
> >> notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
> >> applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
> >> glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.
>
> >> Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
> >> Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
> >> allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
> >> states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
> deemed
> >> necessary in the interest of safety."
>
> >> Jim
>
> >I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
> >that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
> >certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
> >your claims?
>
> >That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
> >proper LOA filed with the FAA.
>
> hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I confess
> that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the operative
> word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update, no
> annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very broad,
> with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I also
> included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
> information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on the
> FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that. The
> real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the people
> in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
> genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send them
> unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
> maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could use,
> instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
> 'merchandise'. Regards, andrew
>
> andrew

The SSA is a voluntary, non-profit organization. Though the solution
may seem simple, implementation may not be that easy. That said,
there are a number of volunteer committees, one of which addresses the
types of concerns you raise. I invite you to join one and bring your
competence and help develop the resources you wish the SSA to provide.

http://www.ssa.org/members/governance/volunteers.asp

Frank Whiteley

[Frank Whiteley]

On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, Andrew Wood > wrote:
> At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
> >> Andrew,
>
> >> Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
> >> gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;
>
> >> Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
> >> (37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
> >> to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
> >> to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter.
> Of
> >> course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
> >> mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
> >> interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
> >> read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then we
> >> realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
> >> preferred task outcome.
>
> >> Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
> >> you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).
>
> >> While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
> >> we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
> >> certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
> >> Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
> >> the FAA..
>
> >> Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
> >> operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
> >> notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
> >> applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
> >> glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.
>
> >> Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
> >> Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
> >> allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
> >> states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
> deemed
> >> necessary in the interest of safety."
>
> >> Jim
>
> >I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
> >that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
> >certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
> >your claims?
>
> >That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
> >proper LOA filed with the FAA.
>
> hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I confess
> that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the operative
> word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update, no
> annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very broad,
> with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I also
> included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
> information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on the
> FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that. The
> real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the people
> in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
> genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send them
> unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
> maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could use,
> instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
> 'merchandise'. Regards, andrew
>
> andrew

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=8671991229&show=blog&archive=4/1/2002

What you're looking has been on the SSA web site since 2002. But
check with your FSDO.

Frank

[Andrew Wood[_2_]]

At 23:20 13 June 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, Andrew Wood wrote:
>> At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
>> >> Andrew,
>>
>> >> Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing
>certificated
>> >> gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;
>>
>> >> Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161.
subparagraph
>> >> (37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement.
>Looks
>> >> to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't
go
>> >> to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original
letter.
>> Of
>> >> course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a
>300
>> >> mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
>> >> interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
>> >> read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then
we
>> >> realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
>> >> preferred task outcome.
>>
>> >> Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart"
that
>> >> you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).
>>
>> >> While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
>> >> we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
>> >> certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
>> >> Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as
by
>> >> the FAA..
>>
>> >> Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base
of
>> >> operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner
must
>> >> notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program
>(if
>> >> applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
>> >> glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.
>>
>> >> Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of
>operation.
>> >> Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
>> >> allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
>> >> states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
>> deemed
>> >> necessary in the interest of safety."
>>
>> >> Jim
>>
>> >I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
>> >that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
>> >certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT
cover
>> >your claims?
>>
>> >That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
>> >proper LOA filed with the FAA.
>>
>> hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I
confess
>> that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the
operative
>> word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update,
no
>> annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very
>broad,
>> with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I
>also
>> included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
>> information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on
the
>> FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that.
The
>> real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the
>people
>> in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
>> genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send
them
>> unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
>> maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could
>use,
>> instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
>> 'merchandise'. Regards, andrew
>>
>> andrew
>
>http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=8671991229&show=blog&archive=4/1/2002
>
>What you're looking has been on the SSA web site since 2002. But
>check with your FSDO.
>
>Frank
>

hello Frank

thanks for pointing the above SSA webpage out to me. It's useful and does
cover the question that has been discussed in this thread. I had not
discovered that page before. I had a hard time finding it without your
link. I'd guess that not many people have found it.

andrew