Searching for State Record Forms, Rules documents etc.???

[Gary Emerson]

I have some older copies, but in searching the SSA web page for
potentially updated copies of the State record application (RS-2) form
and the State record rules document, etc. I was unsuccessful. On the
"records" page, there is no information, just a list of recent records.

Anyone know if updated copies are available, and if so, where might they
be found?

Thanks,

Gary

[cfinn]

Your timing is amazing. About 2 hours ago, I spent 45 minutes or more
looking for the same thing. I was finally able to find it. Select
"Soaring Acheivement" and then "Badge Info" from the left menu. Then
select "Forms" from the right menu. The application and rules are
found under the "Records" section.

Charlie

[Gary Emerson]

cfinn wrote:
> Your timing is amazing. About 2 hours ago, I spent 45 minutes or more
> looking for the same thing. I was finally able to find it. Select
> "Soaring Acheivement" and then "Badge Info" from the left menu. Then
> select "Forms" from the right menu. The application and rules are
> found under the "Records" section.
>
> Charlie

Charlie,

Thanks.

Looks like there is still the limitation on multiple records. If I've
read this right, you can't claim straight to a goal and O&R distance on
the same flight. Perhaps I've read this wrong?

Gary

[cfinn]

I just found it. Interperting it is another question! However, looking
at section 5 (below) it appears you could claim stright goal in one
class and O&R in another.

5. Records in a single flight: Multiple records are permitted, so long
as no more than one distance
and one speed record are claimed in each applicable Category and Class

Charlie

[5Z]

On Jun 5, 8:08 pm, Gary Emerson > wrote:
> Looks like there is still the limitation on multiple records. If I've
> read this right, you can't claim straight to a goal and O&R distance on
> the same flight. Perhaps I've read this wrong?

Per the sporting code, this cannot be done due to the definition of
GOAL and the limitation of only one declaration.

So to declare the O&R, your far point is a TURN POINT, and your START/
FINISH is your GOAL. You may not use the TURN POINT as a GOAL.

-Tom

Excerpts from the Sporting Code:


START 1.1.7 The beginning of the SOARING PERFORMANCE. It must be
either:
a. The release from launch, or stopping the use of any means of
propulsion, or
b. Leaving the OBSERVATION ZONE of a START POINT, or
c. Crossing a START LINE.

START POINT 1.1.8 The WAY POINT marking the beginning of a SOARING
PERFORMANCE. It must be either:
a. The RELEASE POINT, or
b. A WAY POINT declared as a START POINT, or
c. The midpoint of a START LINE.

START LINE 1.1.9 A horizontal line, 1 km in length, oriented
approximately perpendicular to the first LEG.
The midpoint of the line (the START POINT) is at ground level.

TURN POINT 1.1.10 A WAY POINT between two LEGS of a flight.

FINISH 1.1.11 The end of the SOARING PERFORMANCE. It occurs on:
a. Landing the glider, or
b. Entering the OBSERVATION ZONE of the FINISH POINT, or
c. Crossing a FINISH LINE, or
d. Starting an MoP.

FINISH POINT 1.1.12 The WAY POINT marking the end of a SOARING
PERFORMANCE. It is:
a. The point at which the nose of the glider comes to rest without
external assistance after landing, or
b. A WAY POINT declared as the FINISH POINT or goal, or
c. The midpoint of a FINISH LINE, or
d. The point at which an MoP is started.

FINISH LINE 1.1.13 A horizontal line, 1 km in length, oriented
approximately perpendicular to the final LEG. The midpoint of the line
(the FINISH POINT) is at ground level.

GOAL 1.1.14 A FINISH POINT specified in a DECLARATION (see 4.3.3).


4.3.3 Achieving the goal
Where the soaring performance is required to end at a declared finish
point, the goal will be achieved if:
a. The landing point is within 1000 metres of the declared finish
point or,
b. If the finish point is an airfield, the landing is within the
boundaries of the airfield or,
c. Satisfactory evidence is produced showing that the glider was in
the observation zone and within 1000 metres of the finish point, or
d. A finish line at the goal is crossed.
e. For any type of closed course goal flight where a start other than
release or a start line is used, the glider must exit the start point
OZ within 1000 metres of the declared start point.

[cfinn]

It's my understanding that we should be able to do the Diamond Goal
and Diamond XC in the same flight. We would need to declare a O&R or
Triangle goal of 300K, fly and complete that goal, and then fly
another 200K to meet the 500K XC. The flight would count for both
elements of the Diamond, but you could only use one for any possible
state record.

Does anyone have another take on that?

Thanks,

Charlie

On Jun 6, 9:49*am, 5Z > wrote:
> On Jun 5, 8:08 pm, Gary Emerson > wrote:
>
> > Looks like there is still the limitation on multiple records. *If I've
> > read this right, you can't claim straight to a goal and O&R distance on
> > the same flight. *Perhaps I've read this wrong?
>
> Per the sporting code, this cannot be done due to the definition of
> GOAL and the limitation of only one declaration.
>
> So to declare the O&R, your far point is a TURN POINT, and your START/
> FINISH is your GOAL. *You may not use the TURN POINT as a GOAL.
>
> -Tom
>
> Excerpts from the Sporting Code:
>
> START 1.1.7 The beginning of the SOARING PERFORMANCE. It must be
> either:
> a. The release from launch, or stopping the use of any means of
> propulsion, or
> b. Leaving the OBSERVATION ZONE of a START POINT, or
> c. Crossing a START LINE.
>
> START POINT 1.1.8 The WAY POINT marking the beginning of a SOARING
> PERFORMANCE. It must be either:
> a. The RELEASE POINT, or
> b. A WAY POINT declared as a START POINT, or
> c. The midpoint of a START LINE.
>
> START LINE 1.1.9 A horizontal line, 1 km in length, oriented
> approximately perpendicular to the first LEG.
> The midpoint of the line (the START POINT) is at ground level.
>
> TURN POINT 1.1.10 A WAY POINT between two LEGS of a flight.
>
> FINISH 1.1.11 The end of the SOARING PERFORMANCE. It occurs on:
> a. Landing the glider, or
> b. Entering the OBSERVATION ZONE of the FINISH POINT, or
> c. Crossing a FINISH LINE, or
> d. Starting an MoP.
>
> FINISH POINT 1.1.12 The WAY POINT marking the end of a SOARING
> PERFORMANCE. It is:
> a. The point at which the nose of the glider comes to rest without
> external assistance after landing, or
> b. A WAY POINT declared as the FINISH POINT or goal, or
> c. The midpoint of a FINISH LINE, or
> d. The point at which an MoP is started.
>
> FINISH LINE 1.1.13 A horizontal line, 1 km in length, oriented
> approximately perpendicular to the final LEG. The midpoint of the line
> (the FINISH POINT) is at ground level.
>
> GOAL 1.1.14 A FINISH POINT specified in a DECLARATION (see 4.3.3).
>
> 4.3.3 Achieving the goal
> Where the soaring performance is required to end at a declared finish
> point, the goal will be achieved if:
> a. The landing point is within 1000 metres of the declared finish
> point or,
> b. If the finish point is an airfield, the landing is within the
> boundaries of the airfield or,
> c. Satisfactory evidence is produced showing that the glider was in
> the observation zone and within 1000 metres of the finish point, or
> d. A finish line at the goal is crossed.
> e. For any type of closed course goal flight where a start other than
> release or a start line is used, the glider must exit the start point
> OZ within 1000 metres of the declared start point.

[5Z]

On Jun 6, 10:55 am, cfinn > wrote:
> It's my understanding that we should be able to do the Diamond Goal
> and Diamond XC in the same flight. We would need to declare a O&R or
> Triangle goal of 300K, fly and complete that goal, and then fly
> another 200K to meet the 500K XC. The flight would count for both
> elements of the Diamond, but you could only use one for any possible
> state record.

Yes. You fly and complete the DECLARED 300k flight, then are free to
land 200 km away from the finish to get the 500 diamond distance.

-Tom

[Gary Emerson]

5Z,

My bad on terminology. It'd been better if I said Goal and "Free" O&R,
which I think does work. However, I don't think that the two can be
claimed in the same class (15, standard, etc) with the current rules.

You make your Goal and the Free O&R is claimed after the flight if you
make it back home.

If you set a flight to a Goal, then made it back to the start, I don't
see anything wrong with picking up Straight to a Goal, Free O&R, 3TP
distance, and maybe an altitude gain in the same flight as long as the
soaring performance(s) exceed the current records by the require amount.

I know some people don't like more than one record to be claimed per
flight, but I personally liked it better when you could claim anything
your flight qualified you for. Why shouldn't it????

Perhaps someone from the rules committee can shed some light on the
background as to how this came to be?

Gary

[Todd]

On Jun 6, 12:55 pm, cfinn > wrote:
> It's my understanding that we should be able to do the Diamond Goal
> and Diamond XC in the same flight. We would need to declare a O&R or
> Triangle goal of 300K, fly and complete that goal, and then fly
> another 200K to meet the 500K XC. The flight would count for both
> elements of the Diamond, but you could only use one for any possible
> state record.

Actually, you don't have to land 200KM away. The Diamond GOAL
triangle is defined by the (up to) (3) turn points. As long as the
distance around the (3) turn points meets the 300KM goal requirements
(i.e. the triangle drawn by the TP's), you can add the "extra" 200KM
by flying from your Start Point (SP) to TP1 Plus the distance from TP3
to the Finish Point (FP). More than likely, you will probably fly
more than 500KM to complete this, but it is doable.

I did my Diamond Goal and Diamond Distance in (1) flight this way with
the SP / FP at my takeoff airport. A long day, but a lot of fun.