Employment

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my job
offer. Must be a myth? Or perhaps they are expecting to make 100K
right out of the box and ink wet on the certificates?
We need more CFI's to work near Pensacola,FL in well maintained
C-172's in a very structured controlled training environment. You can
expect to fly between 70-100 hours a month with highly motivated
students, you get paid even if the weather prevents flight ops, and
its the best damned CFI seat in the country. Particularly for a new
CFI. We've taken on several new CFI's and helped them get the
seasoning they are looking for to go on with their career in the
airlines, or corporate, or ???
Is it that they are expected to work for the salary and a five day
week? I just don't understand it. Can anyone help me out here? Talk
about lack of work and yet no one is responding to serious job offers.
I just don't get it.........
Skywarriorinc.com
Rocky

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 13:49:54 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
> wrote:

>For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
>finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my job
>offer. Must be a myth? Or perhaps they are expecting to make 100K
>right out of the box and ink wet on the certificates?

Or Usenet is dying.

[Blueskies]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
...
> For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
> finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my job
> offer. Must be a myth? Or perhaps they are expecting to make 100K
> right out of the box and ink wet on the certificates?
> We need more CFI's to work near Pensacola,FL in well maintained
> C-172's in a very structured controlled training environment. You can
> expect to fly between 70-100 hours a month with highly motivated
> students, you get paid even if the weather prevents flight ops, and
> its the best damned CFI seat in the country. Particularly for a new
> CFI. We've taken on several new CFI's and helped them get the
> seasoning they are looking for to go on with their career in the
> airlines, or corporate, or ???
> Is it that they are expected to work for the salary and a five day
> week? I just don't understand it. Can anyone help me out here? Talk
> about lack of work and yet no one is responding to serious job offers.
> I just don't get it.........
> Skywarriorinc.com
> Rocky

I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up right out of college flight school into the right
seat on the regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?

Maybe this is the beginning of CFIs getting what they are really worth?

[[email protected]]

On Jun 6, 3:49 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
> For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
> finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my job
> offer. Must be a myth? Or perhaps they are expecting to make 100K
> right out of the box and ink wet on the certificates?
> We need more CFI's to work near Pensacola,FL in well maintained
> C-172's in a very structured controlled training environment. You can
> expect to fly between 70-100 hours a month with highly motivated
> students, you get paid even if the weather prevents flight ops, and
> its the best damned CFI seat in the country. Particularly for a new
> CFI. We've taken on several new CFI's and helped them get the
> seasoning they are looking for to go on with their career in the
> airlines, or corporate, or ???
> Is it that they are expected to work for the salary and a five day
> week? I just don't understand it. Can anyone help me out here? Talk
> about lack of work and yet no one is responding to serious job offers.
> I just don't get it.........
> Skywarriorinc.com
> Rocky

You might try tv ads during spanish-dubbed versions of Miami Vice in
syndication. Budding pharmaceutical importers find the series to be a
realistic training video...JG

[Tman]

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
> For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
> finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my job

Bad targeting with your request mostly.
There aren't many achievement-oriented people spending much time on this NG!

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Jun 6, 4:22*pm, "Blueskies" > wrote:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
> > finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my job
> > offer. Must be a myth? Or perhaps they are expecting to make 100K
> > right out of the box and ink wet on the certificates?
> > We need more CFI's to work near Pensacola,FL in well maintained
> > C-172's in a very structured controlled training environment. You can
> > expect to fly between 70-100 hours a month with highly motivated
> > students, you get paid even if the weather prevents flight ops, and
> > its the best damned CFI seat in the country. Particularly for a new
> > CFI. We've taken on several new CFI's and helped them get the
> > seasoning they are looking for to go on with their career in the
> > airlines, or corporate, or ???
> > Is it that they are expected to work for the salary and a five day
> > week? I just don't understand it. Can anyone help me out here? Talk
> > about lack of work and yet no one is responding to serious job offers.
> > I just don't get it.........
> > Skywarriorinc.com
> > Rocky
>
> I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up right out of college flight school into the right
> seat on the regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?
>
> Maybe this is the beginning of CFIs getting what they are really worth?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

[[email protected]]

> I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up right out of college flight school into the right
> seat on the regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?
>
That seems unlikely. I see that web sites allegedly having pilot job
listings are free for employers to post jobs but fee-based for job
seekers. It would be the other way around if there really was a pilot
shortage.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in
:

> On Jun 6, 4:22*pm, "Blueskies" > wrote:
>> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in
>> messagenews:852dc241-eea
> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > For all the hand wringing and crying abnout a new pilot/CFI not
>> > finding any work, I'm still waiting to hear from any of them re;my
>> > job offer. Must be a myth? Or perhaps they are expecting to make
>> > 100K right out of the box and ink wet on the certificates?
>> > We need more CFI's to work near Pensacola,FL in well maintained
>> > C-172's in a very structured controlled training environment. You
>> > can expect to fly between 70-100 hours a month with highly
>> > motivated students, you get paid even if the weather prevents
>> > flight ops, and its the best damned CFI seat in the country.
>> > Particularly for a new CFI. We've taken on several new CFI's and
>> > helped them get the seasoning they are looking for to go on with
>> > their career in the airlines, or corporate, or ???
>> > Is it that they are expected to work for the salary and a five day
>> > week? I just don't understand it. Can anyone help me out here? Talk
>> > about lack of work and yet no one is responding to serious job
>> > offers. I just don't get it.........
>> > Skywarriorinc.com
>> > Rocky
>>
>> I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up
>> right o
> ut of college flight school into the right
>> seat on the regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat
>> time?
>>
>> Maybe this is the beginning of CFIs getting what they are really
>> worth?- H
> ide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
> regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
>

That's not to bad! Quite a lot better than when I used to do it.

Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:

>
> We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
> regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
something with two turbines.

How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around and
around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and night
hours added into the mix?

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Jun 7, 11:03*am, wrote:
> On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
> > regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
>
> It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
> would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
> something with two turbines.
>
> How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
> count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around and
> around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and night
> hours added into the mix?

Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain flight
experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC and/
or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just let
them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to build
some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to personal
motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in news:bd11f57e-8cae-
:

> On Jun 7, 11:03*am, wrote:
>> On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what
most
>> > regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
>>
>> It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
>> would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
>> something with two turbines.
>>
>> How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
>> count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around
and
>> around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and
night
>> hours added into the mix?
>
> Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain flight
> experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC and/
> or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
> upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just let
> them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to build
> some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
> way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
> help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
> seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to personal
> motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
> more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.


I have to say, your wages seem impressive. In my day we would have
gotten marginally above min wage and liked it...



Bertie

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

on 6/7/2008 12:32 PM Bertie the Bunyip said the following:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in news:bd11f57e-8cae-
> :
>
>> On Jun 7, 11:03 am, wrote:
>>> On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what
> most
>>>> regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
>>> It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
>>> would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
>>> something with two turbines.
>>>
>>> How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
>>> count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around
> and
>>> around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and
> night
>>> hours added into the mix?
>> Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain flight
>> experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC and/
>> or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
>> upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just let
>> them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to build
>> some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
>> way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
>> help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
>> seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to personal
>> motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
>> more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.
>
>
> I have to say, your wages seem impressive. In my day we would have
> gotten marginally above min wage and liked it...

And in your CFI days minimum wage was, what, tuppence? :-)

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Rich Ahrens > wrote in news:484acc44$0$68530
:

> on 6/7/2008 12:32 PM Bertie the Bunyip said the following:
>> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in news:bd11f57e-8cae-
>> :
>>
>>> On Jun 7, 11:03 am, wrote:
>>>> On Jun 6, 9:29 pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what
>> most
>>>>> regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.
>>>> It terms of dollars, I suppose so, but in terms of experience, it
>>>> would seem to me that they're a lot better off in the right seat of
>>>> something with two turbines.
>>>>
>>>> How would an ambitions kid (and that is definitely not me on either
>>>> count) ever make those part 135 minima if all he does is go around
>> and
>>>> around the pattern in day VFR conditions, with a very few XC and
>> night
>>>> hours added into the mix?
>>> Then please tell me how in hell any new pilot is going to gain
flight
>>> experience if he/she isn't flying? And who says they won't get XC
and/
>>> or night? I'm not going to put my airplanes on the line, pay for the
>>> upkeep, pay for the gas, pay for the insurance, etc, etc and just
let
>>> them go build time on my dollar. As a new CFI they are going to
build
>>> some invaluable flight experience that you just can't get any other
>>> way and make a liveable wage while doing it. They produce for us, we
>>> help them along. In more than 50 years in this business I've never
>>> seen a better deal for new pilots. I suppose it boils down to
personal
>>> motivation and desire. Unfortunately the trend seems to be more and
>>> more..."What can you do for ME?" and expect it to be a freebie.
>>
>>
>> I have to say, your wages seem impressive. In my day we would have
>> gotten marginally above min wage and liked it...
>
> And in your CFI days minimum wage was, what, tuppence? :-)
>

I think may wages were a button and all the stale Three Musketeers bars
I could steal from the airport candy machine.



Bertie

[Blueskies]

> wrote in message ...
>
>
>> I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up right out of college flight school into the right
>> seat on the regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?
>>
> That seems unlikely. I see that web sites allegedly having pilot job
> listings are free for employers to post jobs but fee-based for job
> seekers. It would be the other way around if there really was a pilot
> shortage.

I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school who are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and
just over 250 hours...

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Blueskies" > wrote in
:

>
> > wrote in message
> .
> ..
>>
>>
>>> I've been hearing there is a pilot shortage, folks being picked up
>>> right out of college flight school into the right seat on the
>>> regionals. Does your CFI pay compare with right seat time?
>>>
>> That seems unlikely. I see that web sites allegedly having pilot job
>> listings are free for employers to post jobs but fee-based for job
>> seekers. It would be the other way around if there really was a pilot
>> shortage.
>
> I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school who
> are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and just over 250
> hours...
>
>

Shudder!

I've flown with a few of those on jets. They tend to be very polished but
there's only a veneer of capability there. They can fly OK and will
certainly get the airplane on the ground in one piece if the skipper has a
coronary, but it's not the ideal scenario up in the front. Simply put,
they're fine day to day but when the **** hits the fan they can be a
liability.


Bertie

[Blueskies]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message ...
>> I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school who
>> are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and just over 250
>> hours...
>>
>>
>
> Shudder!
>
> I've flown with a few of those on jets. They tend to be very polished but
> there's only a veneer of capability there. They can fly OK and will
> certainly get the airplane on the ground in one piece if the skipper has a
> coronary, but it's not the ideal scenario up in the front. Simply put,
> they're fine day to day but when the **** hits the fan they can be a
> liability.
>
>
> Bertie

yes scary, but they polished with the glass and have procedures down pretty well, only need the 'grit' that can only
come from experience; experience that is rarely gained for being a CFI...

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Blueskies" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> I personally know quite a few folks right out of WMU flight school
>>> who are now regional drivers...no CFI in between and just over 250
>>> hours...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Shudder!
>>
>> I've flown with a few of those on jets. They tend to be very polished
>> but there's only a veneer of capability there. They can fly OK and
>> will certainly get the airplane on the ground in one piece if the
>> skipper has a coronary, but it's not the ideal scenario up in the
>> front. Simply put, they're fine day to day but when the **** hits the
>> fan they can be a liability.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> yes scary, but they polished with the glass and have procedures down
> pretty well, only need the 'grit' that can only come from experience;
> experience that is rarely gained for being a CFI...


Yeah, it's all a bit upside down, but I disagree that they don't get
experience from instructing. I do think that the gus who instruct shoul
dbe the experienced ones, though! The experienced guys can't be bothered
to do it, of course, so we're kinda stuck with the way things are, I
guess.
On a brighter note, I'm studying up for my CFI renewal next week and
I've been going through the latest FAA material. Years ago, it was very
thin material and a lot of it was just crap. The stuff they put out now
is excellent. Very thorough. Very practical stuff too. Who'da thunk a
gov'mint agency capable of such a thing?



Bertie

[gatt[_5_]]

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
> On Jun 6, 4:22 pm, "Blueskies" > wrote:

> We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
> regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

That's pretty good; a hell of a lot better than what they're paying here
in Oregon. If we weren't across the country from each other, I'd be
hitting you up for an interview.

-c

[Michael[_1_]]

On Jun 7, 12:29*am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote:
> We're starting brand new CFI's at $32K which is about double what most
> regionals are paying for a new right seat pilot.

There's an outfit in Arizona that starts them at $36K/yr, I think. In
any case - it's a living wage. Only problem is, there's no future in
it. Are you asking for a comitment? Like maybe a year or two?
Because if you are, the economics of the situation are against you.
These days most of the regionals are hiring people at under 800 hours
- which means that you can get your CFI time in and be hired in 6
months or less. True, you will make $10K less in that 6 months - but
what is 6 months seniority worth?

Michael