"U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska: Russian flights smack of ColdWar"

[Mike[_7_]]

The Washington Times
June 26, 2008 Thursday
Russian flights smack of Cold War;
U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska

BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01

Russian bombers have stepped up provocative flight exercises off the
Alaskan coast, reminiscent of Cold War incursions designed to rattle
U.S. air defenses.

U.S. Northern Command, which protects North American airspace, told
The Washington Times that TU-95 Bear bombers on 18 occasions the past
year have skirted a 12-mile air defense identification zone that
protects Alaska. The incursions prompted F-15s and F-22 Raptor
fighters to scramble from Elmendorf Air Force Base and intercept the
warplanes. The last incident happened in May.

The venerable propeller-driven TU-95 came to symbolize the Cold War,
as did its counterpart, the U.S. B-52 Stratofortress.

"They have flown close enough to deem it necessary to ID and monitor
them," said Maj. Allen Herritage, a base spokesman. "They come. We ID.
We go back to our base. They go back to their base." Elmendorf is
headquarters for the Alaskan region of the North American Aerospace
Defense Command (NORAD).

Air defense identification zones are military boundaries designed to
guard the U.S. and Canada against attack. To enter the zones legally,
pilots must file flight plans with air controllers. Russian bombers do
not file flight plans, so U.S. and Canadian jets are required to
scramble to identify the planes and warn them away from the area.

"They have not been filing a flight plan and that is the problem,"
Maj. Herritage said.

Moscow's sophisticated show of force has some in the Pentagon paying
more attention to the long-term goals of a Russian military, which is
being rebuilt with proceeds from the country's huge oil and gas
revenues. NORAD is more sensitive than ever to wayward aircraft, given
the Sept. 11 attacks by hijackers and the lack of military
coordination at the time to track, and perhaps destroy, the planes.

Adm. Michael G. Mullen, the Joint Chiefs chairman, talked on Monday of
"the challenges we have with a resurgent Russia" while addressing
Pentagon workers at a town-hall-style meeting.

Gen. Victor E. Renuart Jr., chief of NorthCom, said earlier this month
that "I think the Russians are not a near-term military threat," while
noting they had "renewed" military flights over the polar region. This
is the route U.S. or Russian bombers would travel to bomb the other's
country.

"I think we do have to make sure, you know, post-9/11 world, that we
never let an unidentified aircraft come into our airspace, and that we
determine who they are and what they're doing, and if it is a Russian
aircraft on a training mission, we allow them to continue to do their
job," Gen. Renuart said on WUSA-TV's "This Week in Defense News."

Although Gen. Renuart downplayed the incursions, other air-power
authorities said Vladimir Putin, as Russian president, began flexing
his military's muscle last year as a message to Washington.

"Putin is trying to get the military rejuvenated and trying to show
they are a military power," said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas G.
McInerney, who commanded NORAD's Alaska region. "He's doing it for a
whole host of things. It's really muscle-flexing."

When told that 18 Russian incursions had been reported in 12 months,
Mr. McInerney said, "That's a lot."

Mr. Putin, who relinquished the presidency in May and is now prime
minister, has been at odds with President Bush over NATO expansion and
the invasion of Iraq. At times, he has made strong anti-U.S.
statements that stirred Cold War memories.

A NorthCom statement to The Times said, "Russia has indicated in open
press reporting its intention to proceed with navigation and
operational training."

Mr. McInerney said the incursions are the most sophisticated since the
Cold War. He made the assessment based on an Air Force briefing he
received last fall at Elmendorf.

The retired general called the exercises "coordinated attacks coming
into our air defense identification zone. They are very sophisticated
attack training maneuvers. These incursions are far more sophisticated
than anything we had seen before."

He said the Russian army air force is launching Bear bombers from
Tiksi on the Arctic Ocean and Anadyr in Siberia. They are flying
against the air defense identification zone from both the polar caps
and from the south. The Air Force statement said it has "monitored
Russian aircraft taking off from a variety of air bases across their
country."

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 29, 8:37 am, Mike > wrote:
> The Washington Times
> June 26, 2008 Thursday
> Russian flights smack of Cold War;
> U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska
>
> BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
> SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01
>
> Russian bombers have stepped up provocative flight exercises off the
> Alaskan coast, reminiscent of Cold War incursions designed to rattle
> U.S. air defenses.
>
> U.S. Northern Command, which protects North American airspace, told
> The Washington Times that TU-95 Bear bombers on 18 occasions the past
> year have skirted a 12-mile air defense identification zone that
> protects Alaska. The incursions prompted F-15s and F-22 Raptor
> fighters to scramble from Elmendorf Air Force Base and intercept the
> warplanes. The last incident happened in May.
>
> The venerable propeller-driven TU-95 came to symbolize the Cold War,
> as did its counterpart, the U.S. B-52 Stratofortress.
>
> "They have flown close enough to deem it necessary to ID and monitor
> them," said Maj. Allen Herritage, a base spokesman. "They come. We ID.
> We go back to our base. They go back to their base." Elmendorf is
> headquarters for the Alaskan region of the North American Aerospace
> Defense Command (NORAD).
>
> Air defense identification zones are military boundaries designed to
> guard the U.S. and Canada against attack. To enter the zones legally,
> pilots must file flight plans with air controllers. Russian bombers do
> not file flight plans, so U.S. and Canadian jets are required to
> scramble to identify the planes and warn them away from the area.
>
> "They have not been filing a flight plan and that is the problem,"
> Maj. Herritage said.
>
> Moscow's sophisticated show of force has some in the Pentagon paying
> more attention to the long-term goals of a Russian military, which is
> being rebuilt with proceeds from the country's huge oil and gas
> revenues. NORAD is more sensitive than ever to wayward aircraft, given
> the Sept. 11 attacks by hijackers and the lack of military
> coordination at the time to track, and perhaps destroy, the planes.
>
> Adm. Michael G. Mullen, the Joint Chiefs chairman, talked on Monday of
> "the challenges we have with a resurgent Russia" while addressing
> Pentagon workers at a town-hall-style meeting.
>
> Gen. Victor E. Renuart Jr., chief of NorthCom, said earlier this month
> that "I think the Russians are not a near-term military threat," while
> noting they had "renewed" military flights over the polar region. This
> is the route U.S. or Russian bombers would travel to bomb the other's
> country.
>
> "I think we do have to make sure, you know, post-9/11 world, that we
> never let an unidentified aircraft come into our airspace, and that we
> determine who they are and what they're doing, and if it is a Russian
> aircraft on a training mission, we allow them to continue to do their
> job," Gen. Renuart said on WUSA-TV's "This Week in Defense News."
>
> Although Gen. Renuart downplayed the incursions, other air-power
> authorities said Vladimir Putin, as Russian president, began flexing
> his military's muscle last year as a message to Washington.
>
> "Putin is trying to get the military rejuvenated and trying to show
> they are a military power," said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas G.
> McInerney, who commanded NORAD's Alaska region. "He's doing it for a
> whole host of things. It's really muscle-flexing."
>
> When told that 18 Russian incursions had been reported in 12 months,
> Mr. McInerney said, "That's a lot."
>
> Mr. Putin, who relinquished the presidency in May and is now prime
> minister, has been at odds with President Bush over NATO expansion and
> the invasion of Iraq. At times, he has made strong anti-U.S.
> statements that stirred Cold War memories.
>
> A NorthCom statement to The Times said, "Russia has indicated in open
> press reporting its intention to proceed with navigation and
> operational training."
>
> Mr. McInerney said the incursions are the most sophisticated since the
> Cold War. He made the assessment based on an Air Force briefing he
> received last fall at Elmendorf.
>
> The retired general called the exercises "coordinated attacks coming
> into our air defense identification zone. They are very sophisticated
> attack training maneuvers. These incursions are far more sophisticated
> than anything we had seen before."
>
> He said the Russian army air force is launching Bear bombers from
> Tiksi on the Arctic Ocean and Anadyr in Siberia. They are flying
> against the air defense identification zone from both the polar caps
> and from the south. The Air Force statement said it has "monitored
> Russian aircraft taking off from a variety of air bases across their
> country."

Anyone else besides the Moonie paper see this happen?

[Jeff Dougherty]

On Jun 29, 10:38 am, Jack Linthicum >
wrote:
>
> Anyone else besides the Moonie paper see this happen?

I've seen some reports in Reuters about it, can't find them offhand.
Whether anyone but the Moonie paper thinks this is actually a big deal
is another question entirely.

-JTD

[Mark Test]

"Mike" > wrote in message
...
> The Washington Times
> June 26, 2008 Thursday
> Russian flights smack of Cold War;
> U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska
>
> BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
> SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01
>
> Russian bombers have stepped up provocative flight exercises off the
> Alaskan coast, reminiscent of Cold War incursions designed to rattle
> U.S. air defenses.
>
"Rattle".....they simply probe.....glad to see they were promptly
intercepted,
and they got to see the F-22 up close.....

Mark
--
"Drinking booze and raising rifles helps me through and through."
---Berzerkers, Black Label Society


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 29, 11:17 am, Jeff Dougherty >
wrote:
> On Jun 29, 10:38 am, Jack Linthicum >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Anyone else besides the Moonie paper see this happen?
>
> I've seen some reports in Reuters about it, can't find them offhand.
> Whether anyone but the Moonie paper thinks this is actually a big deal
> is another question entirely.
>
> -JTD

One of the clues is usually the lack of definite dates. That often
means it happened maybe a few months ago, maybe last year. "18
occasions the past
year have skirted a 12-mile air defense identification zone that
protects Alaska." That could be 17 times on one flight and once on
another with your definition of "skirted" open to question. One
example with dates, March 26, 'February' (10th) and then a photograph
92 days later. http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/26/us.russian.planes/
http://digg.com/politics/USAF_F_22A_Raptors_Intercept_Russian_Tu_95_Bears_O ff_Alaska

Flight picked up by radar 500 miles out.

[Dean A. Markley]

Mark Test wrote:
> "Mike" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The Washington Times
>> June 26, 2008 Thursday
>> Russian flights smack of Cold War;
>> U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska
>>
>> BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>>
>> SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01
>>
>> Russian bombers have stepped up provocative flight exercises off the
>> Alaskan coast, reminiscent of Cold War incursions designed to rattle
>> U.S. air defenses.
>>
> "Rattle".....they simply probe.....glad to see they were promptly
> intercepted,
> and they got to see the F-22 up close.....
>
> Mark
Which is probably exactly what they were doing, getting a look at F-22s.

[Tiger]

Jack Linthicum wrote:
> On Jun 29, 8:37 am, Mike > wrote:
>
>>The Washington Times
>>June 26, 2008 Thursday
>>Russian flights smack of Cold War;
>>U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska
>>
>>BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>>
>>SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01
>>
> Anyone else besides the Moonie paper see this happen?


What is that suppose to mean? Bears have been documented making flights
to the UK & carrier group in the Pacific last year. Yes, it's happening.
The wise crack on the Times is not needed.

[Tiger]

Dean A. Markley wrote:
> Mark Test wrote:
>
>> "Mike" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> The Washington Times
>>> June 26, 2008 Thursday
>>> Russian flights smack of Cold War;
>>> U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska
>>>
>>> BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>>>
>>> SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01
>>>
>>> Russian bombers have stepped up provocative flight exercises off the
>>> Alaskan coast, reminiscent of Cold War incursions designed to rattle
>>> U.S. air defenses.
>>>
>> "Rattle".....they simply probe.....glad to see they were promptly
>> intercepted,
>> and they got to see the F-22 up close.....
>>
>> Mark
>
> Which is probably exactly what they were doing, getting a look at F-22s.

Tu-95 have been active in other nato areas. They don't need to fly to
Alaska to take pics of F-22's. They can go to Google......

[Michael Shirley]

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:18:15 -0700, Tiger > wrote:


> Tu-95 have been active in other nato areas. They don't need to fly to
> Alaska to take pics of F-22's. They can go to Google......

They want to collect things like reaction times, radar frequencies and
pulse rates, and stuff like that. You can bet that those old Bears are
packed up the gazoo with ELINT gear as well as the usual bomber stuff.
>



--
"Implications leading to ramifications leading to shenanigans"-- Admiral
Elmo Zumwalt, USN.

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 30, 3:15 am, Tiger > wrote:
> Jack Linthicum wrote:
> > On Jun 29, 8:37 am, Mike > wrote:
>
> >>The Washington Times
> >>June 26, 2008 Thursday
> >>Russian flights smack of Cold War;
> >>U.S. fighters ID bombers near Alaska
>
> >>BYLINE: By Rowan Scarborough, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
> >>SECTION: PAGE ONE; EXCLUSIVE; A01
>
> > Anyone else besides the Moonie paper see this happen?
>
> What is that suppose to mean? Bears have been documented making flights
> to the UK & carrier group in the Pacific last year. Yes, it's happening.
> The wise crack on the Times is not needed.

Please note the comment from LostAlaskan99712


http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/jun/22/science-behind-shock-wave-explains-sonic-boom/



LostAlaskan99712
6/22/2008, 7:22 p.m.


"Just be glad those booms are from American fighters and not enemy
ordinance, ah I do miss the good old days with Soviet tu-95 bear
bombers encroaching on our airspace with a belly full of nukes and our
bad-a** fighter interceptors showing them the way home, I love
Fairbanks."

and the heavy menace implied in this article

http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/mar/27/alaska-brief-march-27/

Note: nothing in the Anchorage paper.

[William Black[_1_]]

"Michael Shirley" > wrote in message
news:op.udj0zznjra3qj7@schooner-blue...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:18:15 -0700, Tiger > wrote:
>
>
>> Tu-95 have been active in other nato areas. They don't need to fly to
>> Alaska to take pics of F-22's. They can go to Google......
>
> They want to collect things like reaction times, radar frequencies and
> pulse rates, and stuff like that. You can bet that those old Bears are
> packed up the gazoo with ELINT gear as well as the usual bomber stuff.

I would imagine all the bomber stuff went out of the door to make room for
the operator positions and all those computers.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[Richard Casady]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:05:16 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
> wrote:

>
>Flight picked up by radar 500 miles out.

I doubt it. Radar is basically line of sight and even 300 is a long,
long way for radar.

Casady

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 30, 12:27 pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:05:16 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> > wrote:
>
> >Flight picked up by radar 500 miles out.
>
> I doubt it. Radar is basically line of sight and even 300 is a long,
> long way for radar.
>
> Casady

Wanna bet? look up OTH radar, either frontscatter or backscatter.

[Dan[_12_]]

William Black wrote:
> "Michael Shirley" > wrote in message
> news:op.udj0zznjra3qj7@schooner-blue...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:18:15 -0700, Tiger > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Tu-95 have been active in other nato areas. They don't need to fly to
>>> Alaska to take pics of F-22's. They can go to Google......
>> They want to collect things like reaction times, radar frequencies and
>> pulse rates, and stuff like that. You can bet that those old Bears are
>> packed up the gazoo with ELINT gear as well as the usual bomber stuff.
>
> I would imagine all the bomber stuff went out of the door to make room for
> the operator positions and all those computers.
>
>

Do they still use tail gunners in Bears?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 30, 12:55 pm, Dan > wrote:
> William Black wrote:
> > "Michael Shirley" > wrote in message
> >news:op.udj0zznjra3qj7@schooner-blue...
> >> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:18:15 -0700, Tiger > wrote:
>
> >>> Tu-95 have been active in other nato areas. They don't need to fly to
> >>> Alaska to take pics of F-22's. They can go to Google......
> >> They want to collect things like reaction times, radar frequencies and
> >> pulse rates, and stuff like that. You can bet that those old Bears are
> >> packed up the gazoo with ELINT gear as well as the usual bomber stuff.
>
> > I would imagine all the bomber stuff went out of the door to make room for
> > the operator positions and all those computers.
>
> Do they still use tail gunners in Bears?
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

DEpends on the mod. Check out the Bear G

[St. John Smythe]

Jack Linthicum wrote:
>
> Wanna bet? look up OTH radar, either frontscatter or backscatter.

Ayuh, the bane of ham radio DXing during the cold war.

--
sus

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 30, 1:19 pm, "St. John Smythe" > wrote:
> Jack Linthicum wrote:
>
> > Wanna bet? look up OTH radar, either frontscatter or backscatter.
>
> Ayuh, the bane of ham radio DXing during the cold war.
>
> --
> sus

IIRC there is a frontscatter site in Norway that would serve any
Alaskan long range detection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAi629cEHM

[Roger Conroy[_2_]]

"Jack Linthicum" > wrote in message
...
> On Jun 30, 1:19 pm, "St. John Smythe" > wrote:
>> Jack Linthicum wrote:
>>
>> > Wanna bet? look up OTH radar, either frontscatter or backscatter.
>>
>> Ayuh, the bane of ham radio DXing during the cold war.
>>
>> --
>> sus
>
> IIRC there is a frontscatter site in Norway that would serve any
> Alaskan long range detection.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAi629cEHM


There's been a lot of noise heard in South Africa on the 160m band in the
last few weeks. It got so bad that it just about ruined a recent "Top Band"
contest. The source has tentatively been identified as a Loran transmitter
somewhere in the Far East. I've heard stories from some older hams about
"the woodpeckers" and the trouble they caused.

[Jack Linthicum]

On Jun 30, 2:07 pm, "Roger Conroy" >
wrote:
> "Jack Linthicum" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Jun 30, 1:19 pm, "St. John Smythe" > wrote:
> >> Jack Linthicum wrote:
>
> >> > Wanna bet? look up OTH radar, either frontscatter or backscatter.
>
> >> Ayuh, the bane of ham radio DXing during the cold war.
>
> >> --
> >> sus
>
> > IIRC there is a frontscatter site in Norway that would serve any
> > Alaskan long range detection.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAi629cEHM
>
> There's been a lot of noise heard in South Africa on the 160m band in the
> last few weeks. It got so bad that it just about ruined a recent "Top Band"
> contest. The source has tentatively been identified as a Loran transmitter
> somewhere in the Far East. I've heard stories from some older hams about
> "the woodpeckers" and the trouble they caused.

One of the great ironies of radio is that most of the early research
was done by amateurs. In 1920 there was a conference in Washington
among the Western powers. They came up with the first radio frequency
allocation chart (as opposed to a list of frequencies). The chart
clearly states that anything above 1500 kHz is unusable and is
reserved for amateur and experimental. Wonder what property rights
like that would bring today?

[William Black[_1_]]

"Richard Casady" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:05:16 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Flight picked up by radar 500 miles out.
>
> I doubt it. Radar is basically line of sight and even 300 is a long,
> long way for radar.
>

Wanna bet?

Put 'OTH Radar' into a search engine near you

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.